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Trinity Universe: For the love of God, why? Looking to start an Adventure! game.


Heritage

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The Bewildering Bellamy Breakdown

thumb_pre_1325786218__leadenhall_market_london_uk_by_pepstarsworld.jpg The scene was set in a marketplace in London. Tables decorated the area purposed for all kinds of trade. Even a few of the small restaurants were providing seating out doors; It was a nice day.

Tarik sat in front of a small coffee shop sipping tea from a ceramic mug. One of his friends from the Aeon Society had tipped him off that a gentleman had been asking questions about a small golden trinket. "Unusual questions they were!" His friend had exclaimed, "I say, thought it right up your alley I did. Some ol' Aryan bloke goes asking about curses and magic charms, and who do I think of? Why, the Head Honcho of Hexes himself of course! Takik, my boy, you simply must meet with this man!"

His friend had convinced him a meeting would be a good idea, and so Tarik sat, enjoying the afternoon atmosphere. He was suddenly aware of a man watching him from the next table. The man matched his friend's description: Mid-30's, Average height, blond hair, blue eyes, semi-formal attire. From his posture, Tarik guessed he'd been a military man at some point. Though from the way he was shaking in his boots, Tarik could tell the man had never dealt with a mentalist of his caliber.

This had to be the man his friend was speaking of. Though, you didn't get to where he was playing the odds, and so Tarik decided to check his observations with a little Mental Magic. There was after all, the very good chance this man was just some admirer who'd discovered he'd had the good fortune of eating lunch near a minor celebrity (to put it lightly, of course).

Tarik pushed his consciousness outward. The poor man read like he was an open book. Thoughts of Gypsy and Egyptian curses swam through his head. The addresses of more than a few pawn shops were on his mind as well. Not to mention the fact that Tarik himself dominated a large portion of the man's attention.

"If you are making an attempt to hide in plain sight, it will be of no use to you." Tarik set down his teacup and locked eyes with the man, "You cannot not hide from He Who Sees!" The man nearly fainted. Perhaps he was laying it on a bit thick? No. Never. "Come and sit, blind one. The audience with me you've requested is nigh. Let me hear your words so that I may open your eyes to the truth!"

After a few minutes of bumbling about with pleasantries, the man finally agreed to show Tarik the trinket that had been in question. Tarik recognized it immediately.

thumb_pre_1325787684__seeing_in_silver.jpg The small silver trinket was inset with a light blue jewel, and inlaid with symbols. It was a famous artifact, alright. Famous for being a tourist trap, or a red herring. It was Gypsy made, that was for sure, but the item itself bore no magical properties, malignant or otherwise.

Tarik turned the object over in his hands a final time before setting it on the table. The man reached to snatch it way and froze when Tarik warned, "Don't!" Smiling, Tarik knew that this man was already under his spell, but he also suspected there was something peculiar about him. Time for more digging. Tarik pressed in upon the man's thoughts, and was surprised to find them blank for the most part. Someone had taught him some basic defense against mind reading. Very basic. Tarik could read plainly the words the man was reciting silently ad nauseum, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Fatherland for which it stands..." The Bellamy salute. Only it was slightly modified. Tarik understood a little more, now. This man's looks weren't the only thing about him that was German.

A German military man in London. Was the war so far reaching already? No. Nevermind the war. Tarik was more concerned about this trinket. He slowly lifted it into the air and let it dangle from it's chain. It swung back and forth as a pendulum, and Tarik was aware of the man's eyes watching it like a hawk. This man knew far more than the average person about the arcane. And if he was a German national, then it was possible that he was in London seeking more 'treasures' such as the one he now held.

Well, if the Germans were seeking Magical prowess to aid their war, then it would be up to this Mighty Mystic to stop them. "I'm afraid you have already fallen under the spell place upon this medallion," Tarik lied, the German gasped all the same. "Have no fear, your salvation is at hand... In my hand!" Tarik began to swing the medallion faster, "Affix your eyes to this item. Hold it in your mind! Cast all other thoughts aside!" Tarik's voice was now at a roar. He was attracting a crowd.

"The silver! It is telling me something! You! Your journey has been long... But! It is nearly at an end."

"Yes, yes." The man nodded to Tarik.

"The medallion, sir! Keep your eyes on the medallion!" Tarik gasped, "You must concentrate if I am to break this spell." Tarik watched the man's eyes begin to oscillate back and forth once more. "Now then! The person that sent you, he is testing you! The medallion tells me so. Your failure is not an option!"

"No, you're right! I can't fail." The man said, this time without taking his eyes from the jewel in the center of the item.

"But this medallion will ruin your endeavors!" The medallion flashed brightly, visible only to the man at Tarik's table. It was just that easy for Tarik to implant an idea into the man's head. No more did he work for the Germans. He was now under the impression that Tarik was his commanding officer. "Tell me... Tell me the purpose of your mission!"

"To recover artifacts for the Fuhrer! And to gather intelligence on the British for the coming invasion!"

"Very good!" Tarik's lips curled upward, "I have freed you from the spell. But it seems as though your mission has failed and your troubles are just beginning!"

"What?!?" The man leaped up from the table and began to back away as if suddenly realizing where he was. He turned and bumped directly into a police officer who was beating the end of his billy club into his hand. Tarik reflected on how much he loved having an audience.

"I have opened you eyes to the truth!" Tarik stood, "You have been shown your errors. You have been relieved of your secrets. You have been delivered to the proper authorities. And I, Tarik the Turban,..." He could feel the crowd leaning in, "I... Have a brand new pocket watch." He pressed the jewel and the medallion flicked open, displaying a clock face. Tarik flicked it closed and deposited it in his pocket, "A shiny, new, completely harmless and mundane pocket watch."

"No!" The police officer seized the the German by the arm and began pulling him away, "No! Noooooo!" the man yelled as he was pulled off his feet.

Tarik took a bow as the crowd that had gathered applauded his performance. "Thank you! Thank you!" Tarik drank in their praise, "I'll be here all week!"

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As much as I would enjoy punching a nazi in the face and sending him flying multiple meters through the air I think that the effect might just prove a little too "super" instead of "pulpy" so I am going to drop Enhanced Impact (with regret). Pondering my options for those 2 TPs ATM.

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Question for the GM:

With Bonus Points a Skill is 2 points, and a Specialty is 1 point

With Transformation points Skills are 5 per point, but Specialties are not listed.

Would you mind if I traded purchased Skills for Specialties on a 1:2 basis.

Example: Spend 1 TP and get 3 Skill Points and 4 Specialties, or 4 Skills and 2 Specialties, or 5 skills, or 10 specialties.

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As much as I would enjoy punching a nazi in the face and sending him flying multiple meters through the air I think that the effect might just prove a little too "super" instead of "pulpy" so I am going to drop Enhanced Impact (with regret). Pondering my options for those 2 TPs ATM.

Jameson, while we're going for 'feel of the game/setting' do you think I should consider dumping the fire conjuration knack? It kind of feels more super-hero-ey than I'd like, but it seemed useful and was in the book so I just never actually questioned it... I could totally use the points for, say, cloak of dread which is very pulpy...

I don't want it to seem like I'm copying what you do (as I've been following your lead on a lot of the things through creating this character), but sometimes whenever you make an observation like this, it causes me to look at my sheet and just realize how right you are. Then, you know how it goes, inner reflections occur, and the situation just goes down hill from there :P

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Well, as I see it (and some may disagree), it comes down to one strong factor that makes Enhanced Impact feel (to me) to be too far outside of the tone: usability. Enhanced Impact is free. Once purchased for a given combat skill it will always work for any attack with that skill, without additional cost, without additional roll, every time.

Sir Thomas has Brawl 5 and Strength 5, let's assume for the sake of argument he's never, ever, going to miss a mook/minion/henchman, ever. His damage dice pool is 8 (Strength 5 +3 for Fists of Stone), this is bare handed, he's a brute. Assuming that a standard mook is going to have an average bashing soak of 3 his dice pool is now 5 dice (I hope I'm remembering the combat systems right), which will convert, on average, to 2 bashing damage per attack, on the norm (this is discounting any carry over suxx, use of Inspiration, or other factors). Enhanced Impact means that every time Thomas punches a random Nazi mook in the face that poor schmuck is going to be sent flying 6 feet away, on average, at a minimum. If I popped one of my Inspiration points to double the dice pool, my average damage would double, and that Nazi would go 12 feet, or more. Every time. Every attack. No roll needed. No resistance unless the target has Inspiration to spend.

Compare that to Flame Conjuration, an attack that has its own dice pool, that is fueled per use by your Inspiration Pool. Looking at Tariq's sheet I see you have Inspiration of 2 with no points spent to increase your Pool size. That means that, barring a refresh or an award you can only use that power twice in a session. While certainly a flashy effect, it's not like you're going to be going all Human Torch on the game and lobbing fire to and fro with wanton abandon. The spectacular aspect of such effects is brought back into the pulp style by way of the limit to which you can use such marvelous powers.

At least that's my take.

Of course if you think Cloak of Dread would suit the character more, then irregardless of the pulp or not-pulp nature of Flame Conjuration maybe CoD is just the power that fits the concept more.

For me, I don't think anybody (myself included) was going to cry foul on Enhanced Impact not fitting the concept for Sir Thomas, but the fact that I'd be launching guys through the air willy nilly with every attack gave me pause to reconsider, and after doing so I've decided to instead apply the Transformation points to buying some more skills to make Sir Thomas feel a little more rounded, and a little more believable as a person. At this point I've decided that even if Enhanced Impact didn't feel (to me) to be out of tone for the game, that buying some more skills, and making Thomas more rounded out as an adventurer, suits the concept more than that one power does.

That's said, if Heritage let's me do the specialty thing, I think I'm going to have a character who is just as formidable without EI as he was with it, possibly even more so.

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Ah, okay, I didn't realize that you'd get the for free with every attack that you made. Yea, I can see the reason for your switching things up a little better now. I also agree that being able to cook someone alive with arcane fire once or twice a session (assuming I never spend inspiration on anything else) isn't as potent as having a character's ham-fists act as a portable mook launcher.

That said, CoD ALSO requires the expenditure of inspiration to activate (many mental Knacks do), and frankly, if these powers are going to be a one, or two-off per session, I'd prefer the flashy nature of fire conjuration.

The other thing that's got me worried now is that so many of my knacks require me to spend inspiration. Hypnotic Presence (possibly his most thematic ability), Evil-Eye (if the target is Inspired), Fire Conjuration, and Psychic Control all require an Inspiration point to be spent (willpower as well in the case of the last). That's four out of my 6 knacks that require it if I even want to activate them. Tarik only has Inspiration 3. So these Knacks that I've spent a great deal of my creation points on will only be usable very few times.

I've spent a lot of points on producing a flexible character (which I thought was necessary considering Tarik is our sole Mesmirist), and yet part of me is afraid that I'll have little to no chance to use that flexibility because I've got no pool of Inspiration to fall back on. Sure, I have three points. But what if I want to double a die pool at some point like you said? That's one less power I can use. Part of me thinks that I'll never WANT to use these abilities for fear that it will strip me of my precious valuable Inspiration that I might have need of later in the session (for which I have no way of knowing the duration).

In light of the fact that these worries (however unfounded they may or may not be) exist at all, should I consider dropping evil-eye from his character, and putting those inspiration points toward a larger pool of inspiration? It could serve to loosen up my reservations about using my powers in the first place and, while lacking some in terms of flexibility, may prove to produce a more effective character overall (one that is at least willing to use some of the abilities he spent all his points on).

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Honestly that's a situation I can't really help you with, it's your character, and now that you see the potential issue of powers vs power you've got to find your own happy place.

A possible solution would be to invest in a Dixon Battery, or a Telluric Energy Crystal as a gadget. I'm not sure what the costs would look like for the background vs capacity, but it would allow you to expand your reservoir at a more economical cost, with the balance that if you lose it you don't have the juice (and may need to go through another adventure to get it back).

Ultimately though, as with any game that uses "mana" you need to find the balance that suits you between what you have and how much you can use. A! is a fun system, but not without its flaws in that regard, the same could be said for Trinity (which also had a rarified power source in Psi) which goes to show you that Bates had in mind that having powers is nice, but using them wisely and prudently is also important, a thematic element entirely missing from Aberrant IMHO (which wasn't developed by Bates, so no shocker there).

~~~~

I just took a look at your character again, you spent 3 TPs on Inspiration and so should have Inspiration 4, not 3, since all character's start with 1 Inspiration (page 120, 2nd paragraph). I'd suggest shifting 1 point from Inspiration (leaving at 3) and raising your pool to 6, which should give you enough freedom to use what you need to use when you need to use it, but still keep you being careful and choosy about your uses and not turning things into a "I spam mass hypnosis" type situation :D

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Jameson: To be honest, I tend to be reluctant to start introducing house rules, largely because my brain is so bad at figuring out any given rules system as it written, and the thought of then tweaking it means I can't just run and grab the book and look stuff up; I now have to remember new stuff. I also tend to be a little paranoid because of a D&D campaign that I completely lost control of by allowing players to do all kinds of stuff that they understood the implications of way better than I did.

All that being said, my perception is that you're *not* a super-abusive power gamer, so I should probably trust you, and therefore I'm going to allow it.

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Man makes my job look easy. My limiter is things like Gravity, Fuel, Aerodynamics, and Currency. *laughs*

I think it is easy, being Human, to think that those with certain gifts somehow got it made. In nature though, and reality perhaps, those with powers pay a greater cost than we do in our hum-drum existances.

Lady Anne is just luckier than others. And perhaps a bit more skilled where it counts.

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Jameson: To be honest, I tend to be reluctant to start introducing house rules, largely because my brain is so bad at figuring out any given rules system as it written, and the thought of then tweaking it means I can't just run and grab the book and look stuff up; I now have to remember new stuff. I also tend to be a little paranoid because of a D&D campaign that I completely lost control of by allowing players to do all kinds of stuff that they understood the implications of way better than I did.

All that being said, my perception is that you're *not* a super-abusive power gamer, so I should probably trust you, and therefore I'm going to allow it.

I understand completely the worry that things will spin out of control after allowing something that seems reasonable, and I appreciate the confidence in my to allow this addition. In this case the difference between the house rule and without it will be 4 specialties. Potentially more abusive is the completely legal purchase of 14 BPs worth of Willpower, giving Sir Thomas an Indomitable Willpower rating of 10; this I would be doing either way, specialties or no.

All that said, if you have an issue after looking over my revised sheet I'll be happy to discuss and make changes.

Updated Sheet can be found: Here

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Okay, thanks, Jameson, I'll probably do that thing with the inspiration.

As for the lethal stamina soak, isn't that kind of straying too much into the super hero realm too? Or is it more of an "Indiana Jones gets shot in the arm and still keeps punching Nazis" thing? If that's the "descriptor" (for lack of a better word), then I'd be fine with it, but if we're going to be bouncing bullets off our chests, then I'm not sure I can put my vote behind it...

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Okay, thanks, Jameson, I'll probably do that thing with the inspiration.

As for the lethal stamina soak, isn't that kind of straying too much into the super hero realm too? Or is it more of an "Indiana Jones gets shot in the arm and still keeps punching Nazis" thing? If that's the "descriptor" (for lack of a better word), then I'd be fine with it, but if we're going to be bouncing bullets off our chests, then I'm not sure I can put my vote behind it...

Hellhound, in my opinion buying up your Inspiration pool is really not worth it. The Inspirattion you buy just raises the starting pool, but once it's used, it's gone. It DOESN'T raise your pools maximum or anything like that.

As for bullets bouncing off of chests, my character will be doing that with Body of Bronze. I think maybe we all need to expand our concept of pulp a bit. This is a game with talking gorillas and mind control. Don't forget that movies like The Mummy (the Brendan Fraser one) fits very strongly in the pulp genre and there's all kinds of crazy supernatural stuff going on in that movie.

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Maybe so, but the only things bouncing bullets off their chests in that movie ARE the supernatural stuff. Bottom line is, if someone sticks a gun in your character's face and it doesn't give them pause it's not (Strictly IMO) truly that pulpy, because while the main characters of those movies very rarely get shot, they spend more time running for cover when being shot at than fighting those using them.

When the nazi's stick a gun under Indie's nose, he sticks his hands up and finds a way to deal with them later. He waits for a distraction or something before he klonks the guy knowing that he really does not want to be shot.

And that's just my opinion, folks.

I like the genre in general too much to be turned off by any one facet. I'm willing to roll with whatever Heritage decides. And thanks for clearing up the bit about the temp pool.

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The bullet proofiness (yes, it is totally a word), of a character of course also depends on the build. If we use the optional Stamina Lethal Soak Sir Thomas isn't ever going to be bouncing bullets, if we do use it PoD's character will be able to shrug off up to a rifle's worth of damage and just take the ping die.

But he still takes the ping die, and as we all know, lethal adds up fast, and often uncomfortably.

As for Pulp and the bullet proof man, plup is a pretty broad genre in its own rights (much as modern super hero comics are). I'm sure that there'll be the occasional aspect that may seem out of place to one of us from time to time, but I think if we can all remember to keep the tone of the pulps in mind, and not let the rules dictate how we play the game and set the tone, we should be fine. :)

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IT's settled... Keep our common sense in a pulpy state of mind. We're not Superman. But it's nothing close to reality we will have to deal with from time to time.

Welcome to the X-Files... 1930's style. Maybe Torchwood... depends on how things start.

I think once the tone is set we'll catch on. I'm good for all that's been discussed really. I like the time period. :)

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Hmm, I'm not sure we are in agreement yet, and that might make things troublesome in the game. I guess here's my point, I was under the impression we are playing Adventure!, not a "generic pulp style game."

That's an important distinction because in the Adventure! setting, you do have people with bullets bouncing off of their chests, people who can literally regenerate missing limbs, conjure flame from out of nowhere, heal people with a touch and control people's minds. Heck, the main character travels through time. By definition those things are not going against the genre of Adventure!, otherwise they wouldn't be in the game.

It almost seems as if you guys are looking more for an Adventure! game where only daredevils are allowed. That would definitely keeps things to a more 'realistic' yet still pulpy feel.

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Nope, I have no trouble at all with Tariq tossing out the occasional fire ball, or mind controlling somebody, those can still be very pulpy, but Adventure! also isn't written to allow most active powers to be spammed, which is something that most Superhero games do. Tariq is going to be tossing those fireballs rarely because he has a rarefied power source he can use. Bullets bouncing off chests might happen with some characters, but its not routine (although two of you have it so in this group maybe it is) and even then you'll still be taking ping damage, roughly 1 wound for every other shot fired at the character, and more if Tommy guns enter the picture.

The difference between Pulp and Supers is/was less what the heroes can do, and more how they do it and how often. Wolverine needs to take a split second and give a good glare to heal in the middle of combat, but Dr. Cobra needs to flee and then take some time to meditate and regenerate from his wounds. The Human Torch tosses fireballs out left right and center in combat, Tariq will need to be more choosy about how often he exerts such overt levels of power, even if he buys Inspiration to 5 he's still got a hefty limit on his power. Superman bounces bullets off his chest and doesn't even notice, but even with a lethal soak of 5, 6, or 7 a hero with Body of Bronze still has a chance to be hurt from those attacks. It's a matter of scale.

Could I have stuck with my original build, complete with patented Automatic Naughty Villain Impact Launcher? Sure. I could have, and it really would have been fine, even in a more "grounded" pulp game, hell just look at how often people go flying in today's "real" action movies ;) I did what I did because I personally wanted to stay on this side of the fuzzy pulp/golden age supers line and felt that the ANVIL was a little too much for my taste.

YMMV, but I'm not telling anybody how they should build their character. If anybody had felt that way please let me know, I'll apologize. I'm not trying to run my opinions down other's throats.

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I think it's primarily my fault here for starting the convo like this...

I think once we actually start a thread where the tone is initially set I actually think everyone here has a proper setup and will flop into place in the plot puzzles nicely.

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I think I owe an apology as well. I came off as a little close-minded there. Sorry. I don't know why, I'm not usually like this.

When the newest Indiana Jones came out people hated it because there were aliens and a bunch of weird stuff. I sat a friend of mine down and told him to go watch the first three movies again. "Maybe you're watching a different series, but last time I checked, Indiana Jones has TONS of weird stuff all over the series. From melting Nazis to open heart surgery over pits of lava. This movie has no more weird stuff than the others did, you can't hate it just for that."

I just sat myself down and told myself the same thing.

I'm fine with repelling bullets, frankly. I just want to make sure that we don't have invincible tanks walking around in our group. But chip damage (to use the street fighter vernacular) is always the great equalizer. With that threat hanging over their heads, those characters are not going to want to stand up to someone with a gun in the same way that I'll be reluctant to spend my inspiration too quickly. "Sure I could take one shot, but what's that going to mean for later. I can't keep getting hurt like that". Healing time would also be an issue. I have the feeling that characters willing to take wound after wound like that are going to find them adding up faster than they can heal them away. But exercise a little restraint now and again and they might just equalize it.

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I apologize for my absence; I think I need to find some sort of long-term fix for my internet access. I was also in the hospital for part of the last few days, which pretty much ruined my day off.

Right now I just do not earn enough to pay for internet service at home; this means I can log on at my local library (limit one hour), lug my extremely heavy laptop to work and log on to our work wifi (limited to my lunch hour and any time I can sneak in before or after my shift) or get to the library with the laptop and get a bit more time in. My life is defined by erratic retail work schedules, bus and train timetables and library hours; sometimes I bring my laptop to work but have phone calls to make or some other annoying RL BS that cuts into my time and I don't get what I want taken care of, and then I just have time to check my email and run back to sell shoes. Plus I'm back taking an improv class at Second City, which will cut into my time even more. I'm literally doing the best I can under very trying circumstances.

So all bitching aside, I *do* want to make this game happen, but I'm having a very hard time getting this off the ground, much less keeping my two active M&M games afloat. part of me is wondering if someone else might be a better fit to run this game right now, or if we should put it into cold storage for a few weeks until I can give it the time it deserves.

There's a reason I gave this thread the title I did, because I knew I was about to overextend myself, but I thought the fun of running the game would outweigh the inevitable stresses it would produce. We seem to be having a very polite and (I think) ultimately resolvable clash of viewpoints, which makes me think we're not quite where we want to be; of course, my relative silence on these questions has probably fanned the fires a bit.

I'll be honest, I don't have a clear idea in my head about where I want to take this game; I know the setting and have a good idea of what sort of tone I'd like it to have, but I have yet to come up with any good ideas for adventures. This just might mean I need a bit more time, or it might mean I've drilled too many wells into my oozy pool of creative juices, and the slurping sound you hearing is the last of the slushie going up the straw (to totally mix metaphors). Right now, I'm not really sure; I'm just really tired and not looking forward to my two endoscopies tomorrow at 7am.

Is anyone else interested in running this game, or is it just me or no one else?

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I suggest the cold storage option. We haven't gotten going, and so there's really nothing lost but time spent on chargen (and most people enjoy that time anyways). Focus on the games that you have already going and whatever characters you may have until you can figure a way to get more time or to consolidate your time to allow you to run another game.

No hard feelings here, and I'd rather see one game run well than two run at the expense of each other.

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I can't run. Until I know things are more stable for me that's the be-all, end all.

As for if this is shelved I'm out. I've put creative energy into this that I could have devoted to other characters. I was looking foreward for this and this just is a buzzkill.

Sorry, but if this is shelved, I guess this is not gonna work I'm afraid.

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I can't run. I have almost literally no grasp on the system or setting. While I know the genre, I don't know the little intricacies of this particular version of it. That and it's been forever since I've played white wolf, much less old white wolf. I would not be the best pick for GM's. Wouldn't want to ruin it for the lot of you.

Anywho... The cryo-freeze is fine with me. Just put this on the back-burner until you are ready, or someone else picks it up. I'm having fun with the other game, and it's at the pace I need it to be. I don't really NEED another character / game to think about.

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  • 10 months later...

Okay, this game is *officially* back open for business; I finally took pity on my poor OS1/space-superheroes game and put a bullet through its head, which makes me sad, but it was a mercy killing. Give me a day or two to go back over all the stuff written in here and look over all the submitted characters to make sure everything still looks good, and then we'll pick off where we left off (i.e. hammering out the final details for the setting, etc).

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