opnet [OpNet] Quantum use while unconscious?

[Wakinyan]

Do any of you know if you accidentally use any of your abilities while you sleep? (if you sleep) Do you know of any of us who do have this issue?

I feel kind of embarrassed about it, I seem to conjure images while I am dreaming I wouldn't believe it but I was shown the security video.

Before I think I am doing the Nova equivalent of peeing the bed or having a wet dream I would ask the rest of you if anything like this happens to you as well.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

I don't have personal knowledge of this, I'm sure my girlfriend would have mentioned it, but yes it does happen. To coin a phrase: the mind is a complex instrument. Its that instrument, not necessarily the conscious mind, that controls the node. As long as we're talking about every day nodes and novas not what happens at eruption, making something happen with the node seems to take a little more focus and desire than would come from random thoughts or whims.

I know this much only because I wrote an article on why more novas don't accidentally kill their spouses or cause property damage inadvertently.

[Wakinyan]

That is one of my fears in sleeping with someone. One nightmare and I hurt or kill someone... Not exactly something that sells you on being inherently dangerous...

[Bahamut810]

I think that happened to me once. But it happened when I woke up, not while I was asleep. I was having a pretty bad nightmare and I 'paniced'. I dont think that block was ever the same again.

You may be talking about a form of sleep-walking though. Something that does happen occasional as well are midnight 'attacks'. Basically you see people in your sleep and think they are real and out to get/kill you. You come up swinging if that happens. And for someone super-strong that *can* be deadly dangerous.

[Azdak]

Your quantum expression is heavily tied to your subconscious - that's why you tend to learn powers as 'natural' extensions of self, rather than learned skills. It's interesting, but not terribly unexpected, that your dreams are bleeding over like that.

[Wakinyan]

Thank you for your observation Azdak. That does make some sense.

You seem to know something about me yet I have never heard of you.

[Azdak]

Dude, you talk about yourself a lot here. I read fast.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wakinyan:
That is one of my fears in sleeping with someone. One nightmare and I hurt or kill someone... Not exactly something that sells you on being inherently dangerous...

It's more common to want the ablity to be selectively dangerous instead of inherently dangerous. Even most elites and XWF shootfighters didn't erupt as they did with the goal of being dangerous. Afterwards, they took what they received and learned to use it offensively but that's another article.

On a brighter note; it's rare for those with even highly dangerous abilities to accidentally harm someone they wouldn't have intended to. When I say accidentally, I mean they don't rip off their friend's arm by shaking it, or send a spouse through a wall because the nova was telekinetic with a momentary impulse. Something else seems to come into play. While most of us have felt that momentary impulse see harm done to another, most of us don't fantasize about doing the harm personally so the node doesn't respond.

Waking dreams are another story though,

[Vixen]

I sleep only while dormed. Ignoring the fact that I can throw lightning and fire and create illusions and all that, and ignoring the fact that I sometimes have trouble getting to sleep when I'm overstimulated - I get anxious over the thought of dematerializing through the floor and waking up in solid bedrock, not knowing which way is up. Or worse - solidifying on reflex.

Sorry if this doesn't help - I know you can't dorm - but I thought I'd share.

[Splitmind]

I only really have the one power, and that's the alteration of my skeleton. But every time I wake up, I'm shaped a little differently. My skull may be a bit elongated, my arms may be different lengths, my ribcage may weigh five hundred pounds. And my whole frame is so rubbery.

Of course, this doesn't surprise me, considering that I have to concentrate if I want to keep my bones shaped and composed like the baseline norm even when I'm awake. Usually this isn't a problem, though I once stretched in my sleep and broke off the headboard off of the bed I was using at the time.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Wakinyan:
Do any of you know if you accidentally use any of your abilities while you sleep? (if you sleep) Do you know of any of us who do have this issue?

Yes, but that’s not the triggering condition.

Some of us (including myself) have powers that aren’t totally under our control. In more extreme cases the nova might have powers that are always on. In less extreme cases, the powers simply activate on their own under certain conditions.

If my healing factor is engaged I shift into Troll form. Any blood or other body part separated from me engages it's own healing factor and grows into a clone.

[Tarjei 'Nemesis' Sigurdardottir]

Tarjei sleep walk in Forge Room some of time. Is most interesting what make when not awake full. Cannot know always what machine do but know does something.

Luck for me. Have intern testing program.

[Gerald Haney]

I hope not. Especially with my new stuff. I don't want to wake up on the moon just because I was dreaming about it.

[Doctor Nova Madigan]

In my dreams, I'm still a baseline. I don't think my dream world has caught up with the real one.

If I start sleep-teleporting, I'm screwed.

[kestrel404]

I'm too much of a lucid dreamer for that to happen to me, at least under normal conditions. I agree wholeheartedly with Azdak, however. It is because your abilities are tied so closely with your unconscious mind that you manifest them without conscious effort.

[Madison 'Vali' West]

Flicker, its is incredibly rare that our abilities try to kill us. That usually gets left up to our concious decisions. Besides, lethal quantum manifestations would usually take care of us during our eruptions, wouldn't they? Beyond that, if someone is manifesting a power subconciously, there is probably a reason for it.

[Splitmind]

Mr. West:

I'm not actually certain why you think that Novas generally wouldn't manifest powers harmful to themselves. Ms. Flicker could conceivably dream of flying and wake up a mile from the earth (at which point only very careful teleportation would keep her intact). Fortunately, she dreams that she is a baseline. Hopefully, if her dreams catch up to her real life, her powers will still require more conscious effort than unconscious. But since we don't know what goes through any given Nova's subconscious when they erupt, we can never say with authority how much control the subconscious has over a Nova's powers, any more than we can say how likely it is that a person we meet on the street sleepwalks.

Take my case, for example. My power lies in the manipulation of my skeletal structure. Over the last few years, I've noticed my skin and hair becoming increasingly dry and flaky; it turns out that my entire body is calcifying (that is, gaining a steadily-increasing calcium content). I believe that my body is trying to turn itself into pure bone matter, so that my skeletal-warping powers will be more effective. Though one option is that I might turn into a creature of living bone, it's more likely that I might one day have a heart attack when my heart becomes so calcified that it can no longer function properly.

Since my body would have little reason to push my own potential beyond every day survivability, then the other options are that I have the equivalent of some sort of Quantum cancer, or (and this is more likely in my mind) my subconscious mind is pushing my node to change my body and make it essentially unkillable (though the process itself might conceivably kill me). Actions that seem like good ideas only from very skewed perspectives are the subconscious' modus operandi.

[Wakinyan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Madison 'Vali' West:
Flicker, its is incredibly rare that our abilities try to kill us.

What was that one guy's name? The one who died in Kashmir. Mu Lung? Some claimed he died by his own power. By the results of the explosion he killed a lot of others. Hard to believe that happened almost ten years ago now.

That is extreme but it makes the case that some of us should indeed be worried.

[Azdak]

For the most part, your powers will never cause you harm - between quantum resonance issues and subconscious blocks, you're pretty well covered. However, this assumes that you have no major dysfunctions in either your quantum signature or psychological makeup. Both taint and simple psychological disorders can cause problems there.

Psychological problems (whether caused by taint or not) can remove subconscious blocks against self-mutilation, cause erratic quantum manifestations, or even cause your powers to become actively dangerous for you to use, should you develop a death wish or a martyr complex.

It's worth noting that if such a problem gets dangerous to you, it tends to have something to do with self-destructive impulses. If you think you might have such a disorder, talk to a psychologist. Otherwise, you'll probably be fine.

If taint causes quantum dysfunctions, it can cause you to become disimmune to your own powers, and it can sometimes cause erratic behavior in your powers (unintentional activation/deactivation). Either way, it's unlikely to have anything to do with your dreams.

[Splitmind]

I talk to a psychologist at least once a week. I am of the opinion that, rather than self-destructive impulses, my calcification is a result of self-preservation taken beyond logical necessity. Given my particular psychological problems, it might be safe to blame my physical ones on psychology. However, it's dangerous to assume that there's an "ON/OFF" switch for psychological disorders. That is, most psychological "disorders" are just personal problems taken to extremes. Your "if you think you might have a disorder" statement is misleading in that it assumes there's a clear line between "healthy" and "unhealthy."

Perhaps those in need of psychological help may develop more noticeable problems, but anyone can develop them. Nobody has a clean, problem free mind whose conscious agrees with their subconscious all of the time.

This sort of logic may seem frightening, but look on the bright side: if something goes wrong and people start saying you should visit a doctor, at least you won't have anything to be ashamed of. It took me a long time to get past that.

By the way, Wakinyan, I like your current post signature. I have to admit that I found your last one unpleasant, even if it was a spin on Poor Richard's Almanack.

[Madison 'Vali' West]

Wakinyan, that was an example of a nova conciously pushing his power (from what I've been able to read from the other surviving nova's accounts) and not an unconcious, or subconcious manifestation. He pushed himself until he broke.

Splitmind, without scientific examination, I would hazard a guess that your calification would be part of a taint manifestation, not a pure quantum one. You can look at other novas who turn into copper, water, or even air, and note that their hearts, brains, and other internals seem to work just fine. I wouldn't be worried about dying, if I were you. I would worry about the loss of touch stimuli and the long-term psychological effects of that.

[Azdak]

Quote:

Your "if you think you might have a disorder" statement is misleading in that it assumes there's a clear line between "healthy" and "unhealthy."

Not really. You would need to have a real, imprinted need to do yourself harm in order for your powers to do you harm, thanks to a purely psychological condition. This is unhealthy, by any barometer.

It is true that other psychological conditions will manifest in your power suite (there are strong arguments for everything in your power suite being a product of your psychology), but it should not prove fatal, whatever the case. Your powers almost always reflect subconscious intention, ignoring all reason and scientific precedent - 'accidents' happen surprisingly rarely.

Quote:

You can look at other novas who turn into copper, water, or even air, and note that their hearts, brains, and other internals seem to work just fine. I wouldn't be worried about dying, if I were you. I would worry about the loss of touch stimuli and the long-term psychological effects of that.

What he said. You'll likely reach a point at which you should no longer be able to live ... and stay living anyway. Of course, if I'm wrong, you won't be able to complain, will you?

Actually, in all seriousness, it is also quite possible that you are describing a quantum signature disability. It is very rare, but somewhat more possible, that this could result in fatality. It may be fixable.

Quote:

This sort of logic may seem frightening, but look on the bright side: if something goes wrong and people start saying you should visit a doctor, at least you won't have anything to be ashamed of.

Oh, that happened quite a while ago.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Azdak:
You would need to have a real, imprinted need to do yourself harm in order for your powers to do you harm, thanks to a purely psychological condition.

A little misleading. The expression of nova abilities will not directly cause the wielder harm from the intrinsic properties of the abilities.

Harm can be caused by unwise, poorly thought out, or otherwise indirectly result from the use of the abilities.

[Splitmind]

Mr. West:

Splitmind, without scientific examination, I would hazard a guess that your calification would be part of a taint manifestation, not a pure quantum one[...] I would worry about the loss of touch stimuli and the long-term psychological effects of that.

Doesn't it bother you, Mr. West, that your explanation of my problem doesn't actually lead me to any real solution, or in fact any need to redefine the problems?

Is my calcification some form of Quantum Cancer? Is it a result of my subconscious acting up? Is it an extreme form of the calcification that can occur in certain organs among baselines? No, don't bother trying to understand the cause, it's simply taint, and that explains everything.

Taint is a catch-all term that describes problems likely to occur in Novas without actually explaining what the problems are or what to do about them. Telling me that my body is experiencing the effects of taint doesn't tell me anything about why I'm experiencing the particular problem I am, and it doesn't tell me what to do about it.

If by chance I am wrong and you (or anyone on this board) understand taint well enough to answer my questions, I will be glad to listen. But for the moment, hearing my problem referred to as "taint" doesn't tell me that I shouldn't treat it as quantum-affected variant of cancer, or as an example of subconscious gone awry.

I do, however, thank you for your concern regarding my sensory perception. I have already lost some feeling in my skin, as a matter of fact. I'm hoping that, by confronting my psychological problems, I may eventually convince my subconscious to stop over-reacting and at least arrest the change. Just in case the problem is in fact purely physical, I see a doctor that I trust once every three months for check-ups; so far, he has been able to tell me very little (aside from the fact that X-ray machines no longer reveal anything useful about me).

[Azdak]

Some do claim means of mitigating taint. The Teragen at least heavily implies such, and there are certain individuals who claim to be able to remove (temporarily or permanently) taint manifestations. I wouldn't say any of the later are trustworthy, but some of them do seem to get results.

I would submit to you, however, that taint is not necessarily something to fear. Our typical negative reactions to it are primarily grounded in knee-jerk revulsion - it changes what you are and it often makes it difficult for you to exist in normal society, so the instinctive reaction is to consider it unhealthy.

It is possible for taint to be directly fatal, but there are very, very few recorded cases of this. These cases are quite possibly the exception to the rule - if taint be viewed as a natural process, death from taint could be compared to cell division giving rise to cancer, or a similar breakdown of a biological system.

It occurs to me that our taint is a reflection of self, rather than a wild sickness. Perhaps in resisting it, we are stunting our natural course of 'autoevolution,' as it were.

[Splitmind]

You still have yet to tell me what taint is, though. Maybe it's something that the Teragen can mitigate. Maybe it's our natural course of evolution. But how does it occur? Why does it occur? What the hell is it? Is it anything more than a buzzword that we use to explain something wrong? Let's throw around a few more buzzwords while we're at it: we should be proactive, not reactive, and let's make proper use of OpSpace and turn it into a superinformational multi-tiered web.

Okay. Taint might be a reflection of self. You're still not offering an explanation as to how it works, but at least you're willing to admit that our self, our mental processes, conscious and unconscious, may have an effect on our bodies thanks to the nodes in our forebrains. But then, paranoid schizophrenia is a "reflection of self." Manic-depressive disorder is a "reflection of self." Everything you do is a reflection of your self, but that doesn't mean that it should all be accepted. If we allowed everyone to express every aspect of their true selves, there would be complete anarchy. If we're going to exist as social animals (and that's what human beings, baseline or Nova, are), there are some aspects of ourselves that need to be suppressed, or at least acknowledged and kept in check. Going on about "autoevolution" ignores the effects that you're having on the rest of the world.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Evidence exists that seems to indicate the Taint may be a a number of things including:

- A physical manifestation of psychological forces and/or self image;

- The inadvertent manifestation of altered biology or physics due to quantum expression;

The newest theory I'm aware of proposes some aspects of the Taint are actually due to unique particles being created and spontaneously collasping as a result of an outre quantum expression. Ordinarily this would be a little "out there" even for me, but it does give a possible insight into those novas that seem to warp the environment around them just by exposure.

[kestrel404]

Actually, Novas can create severl kinds of highly unstable particles not normally native to our universe, so that theory isn't all that surprising, really. I'm not sure what effects these temporary particles would have if created spontaneously or without purpose, but I can see how it could lead to some odd manifestations.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Every nova is unique in the way they express their abilities, and their 'taint' as you've been calling it. Much like snowflakes (and with similar reasons for their uniqueness), no two quantum expressions are the same.

[Neil Preston]

Splitmind, taint is not a cancer, nor a disease. I've been studying it for years, and while I can't truly define what it is, I can tell you what I know it is not. I can tell you that it is unique to each of us, just like our QE's and that seriously implies that it is a frontier best understood by that individual. If you like, drop me a line and I will see what I can do to help. I've seen hundreds of novas about this and even been able to help a handful. It isn't much, but I'm still learning and still hungering for understanding. If anything, you might help me as much as, if not more than, I help you.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Azdak: I would submit to you, however, that taint is not necessarily something to fear. Our typical negative reactions to it are primarily grounded in knee-jerk revulsion - it changes what you are and it often makes it difficult for you to exist in normal society, so the instinctive reaction is to consider it unhealthy.

It is easy to claim this about low level aberrations; glowing eyes, a cool banner, odd skin. The problems are, will it get worse, and how much worse will it get? The answers are, yes it can, and there doesn’t seem to be any upper limit short of death or madness.

Azdak: It is possible for taint to be directly fatal, but there are very, very few recorded cases of this.

But it should serve as a warning as too how bad it can get.

Azdak: It occurs to me that our taint is a reflection of self, rather than a wild sickness. Perhaps in resisting it, we are stunting our natural course of 'autoevolution,' as it were.

Wishful thinking. Worse, even if you are right, the natural course of life is Death. Being natural doesn’t mean it should be embraced any more than a runner’s sprained ankle should be embraced simply because it’s a natural result of his work.

Splitmind: You still have yet to tell me what taint is, though. Maybe it's something that the Teragen can mitigate. Maybe it's our natural course of evolution. But how does it occur? Why does it occur? What the hell is it? Is it anything more than a buzzword that we use to explain something wrong?

It’s damage to and/or a lose of control over your node… at least on the “average” case, not that there is such a thing. This then manifests as an uncontrollable part of our powers. Mind you, like cancer, there are multiple causes, and multiple results. Additionally there are various other issues that only look like Taint.

As Neil says, it’s unique to each of us because it’s part of our QE. Also, it’s more akin to a disorder than a disease… but that doesn’t prevent it from being progressive.

[Splitmind]

Mr. Preston, thank you for your offer. I'll... consider it. I'm not exactly comfortable with submitting to examination by strangers, but maybe we could just talk about it.

As a general note, I'm glad some medically-inclined Novas stepped up with a bit of knowledge and some opinion. I'm not sure that I got much out of it (it seems to be about as well understood as cancer was twenty years ago, with lots of "maybes" and "probablys"), but I was reminded that people are investigating it and not simply sitting on their hands.

Also, referring to it as a disorder is comforting, if only because disorders are things that work against you in everyday functioning, but they can be worked around or re-routed, whereas "disease" indicates a sort of good/bad, on/off, cured/sick sort of situation. I can live with a disorder; heck, I've already got one.

[Neil Preston]

I can understand that, Splitmind. The simple reason I can't give you any specifics about your taint is that, well, its yours. Our manifestation are very individualistic, just like our QE's, so it would be foolish for me to either describe a 'cause' your 'symptoms', much less some kind of therapy. What could work well for me could be disasterous for you. I have been blessed with the trust of a good number of novas who have greatly advanced my understanding of nova existance. For all that, I also realize I have barely scratched the riddle of so much of what we are.