*SPOILERS* - A Dance with Dragons Discussion

[Kylie_OOC]

So, I have a confession to make. I have completely and totally ignored the boards for the last two days. I was completely and totally uninterested in what was happening in any of my games. Deal with it... "A Dance of Dragons" finally came out.

Anyway, I doubt I'm gonna get much flak over it, since a bunch of you were probably too busy reading ADOD to notice I was gone, anyway.. hehe. But now that I'm finished, I thought I'd start us up a nice discussion thread, to go over what we enjoyed, what we didn't, what we hope for in the future, and - I'll admit it - a place to bitch about the fact that it'll be who knows how long before we see another ASOFAI book.

So, last chance here folks.. if you haven't read the book(s)...

********* SPOILER ALERT!!! MAJOR "A DANCE OF DRAGONS" SPOILERS TO FOLLOW. IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK.. READ NO FURTHER!!!!!! *****************

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Seriously, we're going to talk about the book a lot now. At least, I assume we are.

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Last chance. No blaming me if we crush your dreams and hopes...

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Okay. They were warned.

And to be honest, I'm not going to do a major, huge post just yet. I just finished the book about 20 minutes ago, and I think I'm still digesting it. I'm considering another read, or possibly a re-read of the series just to get a firmer grip on what I think of the book's place in the series. But.. and I hate to say this, because I know the long build-up is probably influencing it, at least somewhat.. I'm a bit disappointed. Not that I didn't enjoy it. I did. I waited for it, I pined for it, and it was good. But it definitely suffered a bit from "middle-book syndrom". Sometimes I hate discovering these series before they're finished, because I'm not an exceptionally patient person when it comes to books. I like to immerse myself in a story from beginning to end, and that's a personal issue that I just have to deal with.

But I don't think it was just me. I mean, did anyone else feel like the story didn't really.. progress all that much? A lot of the things that I was hoping for - not things I expected to happen early in the book, per se, but things that I was hoping would happen by the end of the book - just.. didn't. Tyrion still hasn't met up with Dany. The Wall still hasn't been attacked by any Others. We didn't see Sam in this book AT ALL, which just killed me! I mean, they touched on almost everyone else.. why not Sam?! And Sansa too.. nothing from her, and just when I was genuinely starting to like the little brat. There's probably more, but those were some of the things I was really hoping for.

And all the review hints that were out there about "hints at Jon's parentage" in this book. A single scene, where someone alludes to a ferry-woman (I think that's what it was, like I said, I need a re-read now) being the woman Ned planted a bastard on? Not that I'm one of those people that feels like Jon needs to be descended from the Targaryen's or something, but.. if that's all it is, why make it an issue in the books at all? Unless, once again, Martin is just stringing us along there. But if that's who his mother really was.. honestly, who gives a hoot? And therefore why make it such a focus in some of the earlier books?

Anyway, I know this sounds like I'm bitching about the book, when honestly, I'd still give it a good 4 stars out of 5. But most of the others in the series ranked a 5 out of 5 to me, and the lack of any real plot line advancement left me feeling a bit frustrated, so I guess I needed to vent a little. I'll probably be more generous about it all tomorrow.. hehe. Or after I've read all the other books again, with this one at the end, so that it feels a little more like a part of the whole, instead of book on it's own.

And no matter how I feel, or will feel tomorrow, about the rest of the book, I have to confess. The chapter with Cercei marching through King's Landing.. shaven, naked, and humiliated.. walking through excrement and getting rotten fruit thrown at her? That chapter alone is enough to see me through to the next book. That one, blissful, wonderful chapter. I'm not sure I've ever enjoyed a scene quite.. so.. much.

[SalmonMax]

Remember the pedigree of the book. Dance with Dragons is actually not Book 5...it's the second half of Book 4. When Book 4 got more and more bloated, GRRM split it into two. Plotwise, you just now finished Book 4. This is why there didn't feel like there was much 'motion'. Because there wasn't.

Now we just have 10 years to go until the REAL book 5! Yay!

[Atomicweasel]

I don't know why it is...I'm always drawn to the evil, or at least the flawed, characters. SILENCE. I care not for your speculations. Anyway, just finished the book myself. I did not enjoy Cersei's humiliation so much. I kind of wanted the zombie Mountain to come thundering to her rescue and sword those lame-ass hippy faithful into little chunky bits of giblets. The book advanced the plot only a tiny bit, as far as I could tell...but the whole point of this book, as Max points out, was to catch up the story lines of these characters with those of the last book. I too missed Sansa. The little scamp has grown on me. Aria I have begun to like less and less. Jon getting Caesered was my moment of joy. I can't freaking stand Jon. Every one of his chapters includes at least three "you know nothing Jon Snow" moments. I'm so sick of him...though I did enjoy it when he beheaded Janos Whatshisface...Slynt?

Someone remind me what the hell happened with Rickon. And why does Lady Brienne think she's found Sansa?

[Kaitlin Vandussen]

I believe Lady Brienne didn't find Sansa. In the previous book, Lady Stoneheart (Catelyn Stark) and the Brotherhood without Banners had captured her and were about to hang her. I think she bought her life by saying she could get them Jaime Lannister. This is all speculation of course, since we don't know what actually happened with Brienne between the end of Feast for Crows and her one scene in A Dance of Dragons.

I'm not sure about Rickon, when last we saw him, Osha (the wildling woman) was taking him to Lord Manderly (the whaleman). From A Dance of Dragons, I think he either has Rickon hidden, or knows he's still out there.

I also kinda want to see the Zombie Mountain, but I despise the Cersei character with the fury of a thousand Drogons (I didn't misspell that). In the first book, she seemed to have some political cunning, but as the series went on, she's just insufferably vain, conceited, suspicious, greedy, etc, etc., with not a single redeeming quality. She's not flawed, she's not even really evil, just entirely blind to reality. And Gods save us, now she doesn't even have Kevan to clean up her many, many, many, many mistakes.

[Atomicweasel]

Okay, I vaguely recall zombie Catelyn and her band of merry-men. Did Sandor Clegane wind up joining them? Because I can't remember what wound up happening with him...and remind me why he's included in Arya's prayers. He seemed to have found some redemption, or at least a hint of redemption. Cersei is totally delusional and psychotic, but she's fun...and I want her to murdinate all those priests. I need to go back and reread what happened with Brienne. It seems really out of character for her to betray Jaime--or not so much Jaime as her quest.