opnet [OpNet] Oh, the humanity!

[Anna 'Quanta' Alameda]

The Teragen are right.

We are not human, never will be, and the sooner we figure that out the better for everyone.

So go ahead and call me a terrorist or whatever. I'll just have to remind you that it was Team Tomorrow Europe who started Ibiza, not the Teragen.

[Slattern]

Okay.

Now what?

[Wakinyan]

And I thought I was a drama queen.

[Good Alice]

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
The Teragen are right.

We are not human, never will be, and the sooner we figure that out the better for everyone.

Prove it. Prove to me that I am not human. Prove to me how that would make the world a better.

[Preston]

Ms. Alameda, to be absolutely correct, it was a group of humans who thought up and authorized the use of a nova paramilitary force (T2ME) on Ibiza. It was your very human government who approved it. It was not as if T2ME decided to go down and destroy your home. Put the blame for starting it were it belongs.

[Amped]

Quote:

Originally posted by Good Alice:

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
The Teragen are right.

We are not human, never will be, and the sooner we figure that out the better for everyone.

Prove it. Prove to me that I am not human. Prove to me how that would make the world a better.

When was the last time you saw a human taller than 7 feet that didn't suffer from heart problems?

Or was green, or blue. Could break the sound barrier, had wings?

I've never known a human with those things, and if you say you have, you'd be lying to me.

[Violette 'V' D'Aronique]

Quote:

Originally posted by Amped:

Quote:

Originally posted by Good Alice:

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
The Teragen are right.

We are not human, never will be, and the sooner we figure that out the better for everyone.

Prove it. Prove to me that I am not human. Prove to me how that would make the world a better.

When was the last time you saw a human taller than 7 feet that didn't suffer from heart problems?

Or was green, or blue. Could break the sound barrier, had wings?

I've never known a human with those things, and if you say you have, you'd be lying to me.

No, but she's known Atheist and Jews and Christians, and it's all the same in her perspective. Because, you know, it's all just a matter of faith to her.

[Good Alice]

Me. I can grow to roughly 95 feet tall and have no heart problems.

But if you look into humans past you will see that humans have done the "imposable" well. 60 or 70 years people thought no human could run a mile in less than four minutes. Someone did and within that year about about four other humans did it.

Now I could go to explain how the limits of the human have been changing for thousands of years and how on many other "impossible" things were done. We do things that bigger, that doesn't make inhuman. That makes us gifted.

But really if you want to base if you are human or not based on physical proof, look at your DNA, you may or may not have more or less DNA in common with the random stranger on the street as the random stranger they are talking to, and you know why? Because you DNA is is human DNA. If that is not enough, I know "novas" and "humans" can have children. I know that those children are just like any other child in the world.

So, let me end with this, on a purely physical level when a human does something that was thought to be impossible in the past. They were not called inhuman. The defining points and peaks of what a human can do have been changed.

On a non-physical level you I don't think you can define what it means to be human. If you can, I am all ears.

[Good Alice]

Quote:

Originally posted by Violette 'V' D'Aronique:
No, but she's known Atheist and Jews and Christians, and it's all the same in her perspective. Because, you know, it's all just a matter of faith to her.

No, I said the idea of novas thinking they are not human is a matter of faith. I said this because even if I believed I was not human, I would not change on any deeper level than if I said "God is dead, and there is no point in preying".

Now if you wish to misquote people in the future, please chose someone who doesn't know what she is saying.

[Slattern]

Bah.

Really, how boring.

If you believe what are you doing about it? If you don't what does it matter to anyone here?

Deciding one or the other is only the first step of many. Decide and you still have a life to live.

[Timeslip]

...

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Good Alice:
No, I said the idea of novas thinking they are not human is a matter of faith. I said this because even if I believed I was not human, I would not change on any deeper level than if I said "God is dead, and there is no point in preying".

Now if you wish to misquote people in the future, please chose someone who doesn't know what she is saying.

She did not misquote you.

Nova DNA is not human DNA. The Intron sequencing in DNA can be differentiated between Nova and baseline. That is how latency testing is performed. Unerupted novas are not baselines, they are latent novas with unrealized potential. Even if they never realize that potential, they were not human on the DNA level you are clinging to.

Believing that you are human is a faith-based fallacy. Accepting that you are not human is not. You may wrap this truth in whatever pretty wrapping paper you chose, but it does not change what is fact and what is wishful thinking.

[Amped]

Quote:

Originally posted by Good Alice:
Me. I can grow to roughly 95 feet tall and have no heart problems.

But if you look into humans past you will see that humans have done the "imposable" well. 60 or 70 years people thought no human could run a mile in less than four minutes. Someone did and within that year about about four other humans did it.

First, I'd like to add that a 4 minute mile is nothing special Beyond that I would like to add that many humans could achieve this if they weren't lazy farts that sat on their couch and watched TV all day, but I would like to see a human keep pace with me, with any amount of training, or a supersonic aircraft even.

Quote:

But really if you want to base if you are human or not based on physical proof, look at your DNA, you may or may not have more or less DNA in common with the random stranger on the street as the random stranger they are talking to, and you know why? Because you DNA is is human DNA. If that is not enough, I know "novas" and "humans" can have children. I know that those children are just like any other child in the world.

Let me create you a list
Liger - Lion and tiger
Tigon - Lion and tiger(yes there is a difference)
Wolphin - Whale and Dolphin, have been recorded cases, but not common
Leopon - Lion and leopard
Jaglion - Jaguar and a Lion
beefalo - Cow and a Bufallo

I could go on, I can think of about 5 more.

Quote:

So, let me end with this, on a purely physical level when a human does something that was thought to be impossible in the past. They were not called inhuman. The defining points and peaks of what a human can do have been changed.

The ones that were different were treated differently as well. I can think of terms like retard, dwarf, midget, albina, several biases based on races and religions as well.

Quote:

On a non-physical level you I don't think you can define what it means to be human. If you can, I am all ears. [/QB]

All it really takes is physical...you need to be a homo-sapien, that's already been defined in the biology books. I tell you what though, I'm sure my genetic makeup breaks one of those important rules that makes us human. A chimpanzee shares most of their DNA with a homo sapien, yet they are called differently. I don't really care what anybody thinks, I'm not human.

[Good Alice]

And I can use test to find out if someone is autistic, has multiple scleroses, and many other genetic anomalies. The fact that novas share a genetic code that can be marked and singled out doesn't make less human.

Also note that in Africa you have a tribe of people who have a strange off shoot of Judaism who have key genetic markers that can be traced by to the Ethnic group that we refer to Jews, and are not found in the tribe around them.

Also note that the Aboriginals of Australia and the natives of Africa while having similar skin pigment are in fact on the furthest fringes of the human DNA scale. For example, take a native American, and a native Australian and an Asian native. The Asian will have more in common with the other two than they have with each other. Yes, this does mean that Ethnic groups can be tracked by DNA, and wile in the “melting pots” this some of an Art, it still is worth while in this abstract sense. As if you think that the idea that genetic markers that can prove you do or not have ability become a nova makes you inhuman, you could test people to see if they are or are not human because you do not think that the “spear chuckers from Africa are human”. After all they have DNA that provably different than the the “pure white race”.

[Anna 'Quanta' Alameda]

I mean what I say when I say we are no longer human.

Baselines have shoved it in my face since Ibiza.

Call me a drama queen or whatever. I have to fight for my food and shelter every night, so I don't have time to be nice and polite.

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
I mean what I say when I say we are no longer human.

Baselines have shoved it in my face since Ibiza.

Call me a drama queen or whatever. I have to fight for my food and shelter every night, so I don't have time to be nice and polite.

Do you need some help? Some money or a place to stay? PM me if you need something - I find that I have more than enough, and I would be happy to help.

[Good Alice]

And have you thought of moving to a friendlier place? I could offer you a place to stay. It is up to you if you want it.

[Ashnod]

Re: DNA

The nova intron sequencing occurs regardless of gender, sexual preference, philosophy, physical prowess, upbringing, nationality, religion, and the other factors which you cite in your oh-so-colorful "spearchucker from Africa" example.

As I said, you can delude yourself and pretend this is not a factor. It is your delusion and not ours.

I find it interesting that you also compare this to a "genetic anomaly." Do you find your abilities to be a disease, one that should be treated? Do you find it a disability, perhaps, something that you'd rather be without so you can be closer to the masses? Hmm, I should probably stop before I start sounding like certain posters whom shall remain anonymous.

Point remains - comparing this to genetic markers left by region or ethnicity is a poor argument, as this is unaffected by any known environmental condition, save perhaps the Galatea detonation, which given that new eruptions are continuing this far after 1998, seems unlikely.

Comparing it to "defects" is perhaps closer, if you so chose to think of this in such a manner, however, if you insist that this is similar, I would like to point out any such "defect" which presents its owner with such obvious biological and environmental advantage over the default species of which the "normal" state exists.

Ergo, show me a genetic example where the intron sequencing provides an advantage on the scale of the this one, and I will entertain your arguments further.

[Zima]

Ah. The lovely Alice Smythe. The assistance of yourself and your comrades in the reconstruction of Kiev is most appreciated by the Russian people. I do appreciate the Utopian work ethic.

However, perhaps you should wait a year or two years before discussing the philosophy of eruption. Many of those with whom you are disagreeing have been in the "quantum club" for much longer than you. Perhaps they have a more experienced perspective, yes?

Miss Alameda. While I appear to have been "beaten to the punch" by Carver, I will still offer my assistance. I find it inappropriate that any nova be forced to live in the conditions you have described. Elitist, perhaps, but there are so few of us that I think it may be justified.

If all you need is food and shelter, I can arrange that, but I could also assist you in finding a more permanent arrangement. While I doubt that I can directly offer you a job (your vocation does not coincide with my area of expertise, you see), I do have a few business connections that might be of use.

If you have even slight interest, please, get in touch.

[Sandcaster]

Exile,

Please see what I had to say in the N News Bulletin on this subject. It doesn't matter if we're human; what matters is that we are people.

[Good Alice]

Leonid 'Zima" lov. I Erupted in late 2007. I just for the most part keep a low profile compared to other Utopian novas. But I sitll thank you for your kind words.

And Ashnod if scale is really all you are basing it off of then you should have started out that way. Cause the whole testing of those who may erupt thing blew back in your face.

Now anomalies are not bad. It just means not normal. Take Aids, there was a genetic anomaly that caused people to be all but immune that shit. So, do I think that being nova is a bad thing? No . It is what I am, and I use what I have to make the world a better place.

[Ashnod]

Re: Alice

I await further elaboration on said topic. Otherwise, discourse between is over.

[Good Alice]

Ashnod are autistic people human? If so. Why aren't novas?

[Ashnod]

Referencing other sources - Studies of people with autism have found abnormalities in several regions of the brain, including the cerebellum, amygdala, hippocampus, septum, and mamillary bodies. Neurons in these regions appear smaller than normal and have stunted nerve fibers, which may interfere with nerve signaling. These abnormalities suggest that autism results from disruption of normal brain development early in fetal development. Other studies suggest that people with autism have abnormalities of serotonin or other signaling molecules in the brain…In a minority of cases, disorders such as fragile X syndrome, tuberous sclerosis, untreated phenylketonuria (PKU), and congenital rubella cause autistic behavior.

You're equating this to the intron sequencing which can lead to Farahcyte manifestion and production and using it as the basis of saying equality exists between the two scenarios?

Again, further elaboration on my original point is requested. Demonstrate abnormalities you feel genetic in nature that provide a benefit to the recepient which pushes them into paranormal categories.

[Good Alice]

Well, I would say the abilities not to die of aids without mecical treatment is a good step into the "paranormal". That being said you too to bre basically stating because it is largely positive we no longer are human?

[Anna 'Quanta' Alameda]

How come you are all offering me help? I haven't been very polite to you all.

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
How come you are all offering me help? I haven't been very polite to you all.

I was mean when I first hit the boards. It's often very hard when you're first a Nova, and having other Novas help can mak it easier.

I was very unhappy with being a Nova, and then I had someone show me some of the wonders of being a Nova. And it changed me. I pulled myself out of my anguish and despair because he showed me the possiblities, and helped me to understand that what I thought were weaknesses were part of a new existance that I should embrace with joy.

If I can help you, I should, because someone helped me.

[Wakinyan]

Because we are a big self help group here it seems.

That and a singles page...

[Good Alice]

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
How come you are all offering me help? I haven't been very polite to you all.

It is what I do. I help other people. I help those who need. I do not help those who are nice or those are polite. Hell I help people who out right hate me.

So me offering a place to stay is offering shelter to someone who needs. I singled you because you seemed to have fallen threw the cracks and I think any other party to offer you help will want something from you. I just want to see you with a smile on your face.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
How come you are all offering me help? I haven't been very polite to you all.

Call it a sense of community or a sense of compassion in us all. Despite our differences, many of us would like to see new novas get a fair chance in the world.

And don't worry about the polite part; sometimes the fiercest of first impressions can turn into something very amazing and wonderful.

[Jager]

Exile, if you want out for a bit, just PM me. Sometimes people need to get to know thier troubles and sometimes the troubles that come there way can be too much.

It is not a matter of being nice. It is a matter of not letting one of our own walk any road alone if they don't want to.

We are the few; those harrowed, noble, and villianous few.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Good Alice:
Well, I would say the abilities not to die of aids without mecical treatment is a good step into the "paranormal". That being said you too to bre basically stating because it is largely positive we no longer are human?

1) The ability to not die of AIDS does not make one paranormal. In many circumstances, the way to create a vaccine or a cure is to find individuals whom are resistant to a disease and use medical technology to duplicate those effects or to coax the body to enacting them itself. Perhaps it makes someone significant in this singular, narrowly-defined example, but it does not qualify as paranormal.

2) I am not saying we are too positive to be human. I am saying the changes brought about by the manifestation of Farahcytes alters the individual as to make them no longer human. I am saying the benefits of such a manifestation create a superior animal.

The creation of Farahcytes by way of the nova's intron sequencing distinguishes them from "humans." It allows for the creation of a new part of the body (the Node, in whatever form it happens to manifest) that is completely absent in the original species. This is biologicial difference that cannot be disputed.

The genetic "abnormalities" that you continue to cite as negative-proofs do not provide such a critical variation from the parent species as to equate them with the new one, or remove them significantly from them.

[Anna 'Quanta' Alameda]

This happen often?

[Zima]

Impolite? Perhaps I simply have come to these forums too recently, but I have not been offended.

Shamefully, however, I must admit that my motives are less thoroughly altruistic. It is truth that I find it somewhat distasteful that one of us be trapped in conditions as you describe, and this is indeed a part of my motivation. It is also the case that I have experienced deprivation, which lends me a measure of empathy for your position.

However, I am also something of a "headhunter," as it is called. Russia is not wealthy in novas. For some time, we have had problems with our economy and our government that have encouraged our brightest and best to leave the country. "Brain drain," yes? Those of us who erupt are not immune.

This means that you would be most welcome here, and I would be equally happy to facilitate. I would be glad to assist you in finding a temporary home or income, since it is difficult to discuss business on an empty stomach. However, if you would care to build a more permanent life, I can most certainly assist.

Kiev, in particular, could use someone such as yourself. It is in the process of reconstruction, and the attraction of a nova-run establishment would be a most-needed boon to the economy. The nova attacks last August caused many entrepreneurs to leave the region.

[Good Alice]

International fights that leave city in ruble,and nova refugees or talking about if novas are human or not?

The talking part happens a lot. The nova refugee thing not so much.

[Ghostwriter]

Quote:

Originally posted by Singularity:

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna 'Exile' Alameda:
How come you are all offering me help? I haven't been very polite to you all.

Call it a sense of community or a sense of compassion in us all. Despite our differences, many of us would like to see new novas get a fair chance in the world.

And don't worry about the polite part; sometimes the fiercest of first impressions can turn into something very amazing and wonderful.

Honey, you are getting something extra special the next time we're alone.

[Brother Jacob]

Child Exile, do you not see that this torment is punishment from God Almighty for accepting a pact with Satan? Is it not apparent to you that the deprivations you suffer is just reward for the Demon that clings as a leach to your immortal Soul?

Trust in the Lord, daughter, and ask Jesus Christ to enter your heart and purge you of the Corruptor's foul touch. For He is the Way, the Truth and the Light, and no one shall come unto the Father but by Him.

If you refuse Him and do not cast out this Demon, the hunger and want you feel now will be as honeyed bread and flowing wine to the Hellish end at the end of your Evil road of Satanic witchery.

[Anna 'Quanta' Alameda]

Again, I say to you:

Fuck you.

[BlackStar]

Miss Alameda, I make you an offer in other thread.

I understand now that you don´t like the idea of being in our country. It´s logical. If you like, I could give you a ride to Chicago, where Carver lives.

[Tarjei 'Nemesis' Sigurdardottir]

Is easy to like Exile. Say what she think.