Shadowrun Game

[Wyrd]

You were originally a part of this run, until you stopped posting so I had to work around that if I wanted the game to start, then I was going to restrict it to people new to Denver, since I only had two characters who were long term residents, but with so few people joining in, I am going to open it up to anyone who wants to participate, except for two people I have already discussed certain details with. They know who they are.

Technically, that was not a run on sentence, just a very long one.

[LydaLynn]

Technicalities are the spice of law. On the other hand, they're rather the limp lettuce of grammar.

[Krugar Rockbiter]

MMmmm...limp lettuce.

[Atomicweasel]

DEELISHUS.

[Joani]

I think I will sit out this one.

[Justin OOC]

better than Kimchee...

[LydaLynn]

Still working on the finishing touches for mine - so no nifty cookies for me.

[Wyrd]

I have enough people to start this run. Is anyone else interested in joining it, or should I move forward? Once out of the bakery, other characters cannot join until the next run.

[Atomicweasel]

Just wanna confirm...I'm good to go, right?

[Wyrd]

Yes, you can join in now.

[Wyrd]

Max: before I respond to your comments, I need to know if AW shared the actual contents of the datapad with you.

I suppose that I will go ahead and post the contents here. Please do not open the spoiler unless your character has actually read the pad.

Click to reveal..

The datapad contains an address for your pick up at the shop of an orc named Magnun. Anyone with Denver Shadow knowledge can roll it to recognize the shop as a custom weapons shop. A matrix search will leave out the 'custom' part, showing her to be a legitimate weapons dealer. She is either a member of or under the protection of the Black Tusks.

Much less information is there for the delivery contact, just that you should take the delviery to a certain location, where you will be met. You are to hand over the goods without getting anything in return, then come back to the bakery.

The reward offered is 500 nuyen per person dependent upon performance, which is actually high for this simple a run.

[Atomicweasel]

I did share that info with Max (over email)!

[SalmonMax]

The point I was making was that the run is SO simple that it doesn't require a full team. One person would be plenty. That is, of course, unless you had reason to believe there might be trouble.

But trouble implies a higher fee. I guess Juno's saying that Granny is either overhiring, or underpaying. And being the cynical soul she is, her bet is on the latter.

[Wyrd]

Just so you are all aware, I plan on explaining exactly what I rated and why for the entire run, in an open post, after the run is over. This includes why Mrs. Esterhouse reacted the way she did to SM, so don't think I'm just being arbitrary.

Part of the point of this run is for you to learn what I expect from you, and give you a very vague idea of what to expect from me, as I like to be a bit unpredictable. Since this is before you know what I am looking for, it is much easier to pick up bonus karma for this run than it will be later.

There are things that multiple players can pick up extra karma for, and other things that only go to the first person it applies to. Most of the latter are going to be because once someone has posted, I can't very well give originality points to someone else for copying it.

[Wyrd]

It's been 36 hours since the last post, and it appears that everyone is ready to move forward. As such, I will make a post if I do not receive a request to not move things forward soon.

[SalmonMax]

I'm ready to move forward.

I figured the owner of the Range Rover would post, or you would. Either way, lets get this show on the road.

[Atomicweasel]

Second (third) that. Baye will take a ride from whoever's giving it.

[Wyrd]

Oh. Didn't see this until after I posted. I didn't think you would want to leave your bike alone.

[SalmonMax]

I thought Kisada was the one with the racer bike?

[Wyrd]

Yeah, nevermind. Confusing characters. I'll get you down better later, I hope.

[Wyrd]

Moving SR forward by either tonight or tomorrow morning, my time(4-10 hours from the time of this post) if no player acts in such a way as to precipitate a post sooner.

For now, I'm going to try giving a specific amount of time to react to each setting, so things don't get bogged down too much with waiting on people to post. This one run is being done differently than I want to do the rest, as I want to see what everyones' reactions are to each scene.

[Forge]

I will post in the morning and the post I plan should cause some kind of reaction I would imagine, at least with the orks.

in post time +7 hours or so.

[Wyrd]

In what order are your vehicles travelling?

[SalmonMax]

Juno would like to recommend she start out going first, in case there's trouble. If someone comes from behind, it's easy to drop back quickly to head it off.

Bike can either scout ahead or perhaps range out to the sides and make sure the area's secure as we pass through?

[batsibf]

Wyrd, sent you a pm hope you like

[Wyrd]

Ok, let me clarify here-- Bike boy*: Are you in the front, middle, or rear? I need to know the order of the vehicles before we move on. If you have not posted an answer by 20:00 EST Today(6 hours from now), I'm going to just roll for your position and move on.

Yes, Kisada, I mean you.

[The Hospitaler]

Middle.

[Wyrd]

So that makes order of vehicles: sedan, ATV with package, bike, correct? Just checking before I make a post.

[DigiGeist]

yerp.

[Wyrd]

SM: Yes, it is an enforced stop, so they can get at least a casual look at vehicles passing through. Traffic moves pretty easily, though.

If you have not posted a background thread for your character, and your character has been approved, please do so--unless you haven't sent me the background for review yet. I will approve most backgrounds, but I'm checking them for things that don't fit with my setting before letting you post them.

Remember, the format for the character thread titles is [sR character]*character name*. You do not have to post your character sheets unless you want to. These threads are what you are allowing the other players to know about your character, however much or little detail that may be.

[Krugar Rockbiter]

[Wyrd]

Dozer, aka Kisada, is now officially idle. He'll follow behind and not do anything unless I think of something funny for him, and not go on any future runs until he contacts me to say he'll be playing again.

[Wyrd]

This is the place for out of character discussion, so I'll respond to SM here.

I told you at the beginning of the run that you were going to be evaluated on it, and that part of her job was to do that evaluation. While this particular post was a lot more haphazard than I wanted, it seemed like the players were done with posting and I wanted to wrap up the run.

OTOH, I have edited the post so that she makes it clear what she is doing and why, and even offers to set you up with other Johnson's for more serious work. If you are not interested in using her connections, you can find a different Johnson. Grittiness will be a part of this game, but I wanted to make it clear from the beginning that sometimes what shadowrunners do is not even illegal, it just needs to be hidden or requires extra competence to be sure it comes off.

I don't want the game to turn into nothing but firefights and sticking it to the corps(usually at the behest of a different corp). I want there to be more to the characters and the game than just the runs, though if I made that unclear I apologize. I am willing to adjust what I am doing to satisfy the players more. A gm unwilling to cooperate with his/her players is one who soon runs out of players.

[SalmonMax]

Alrighty! I probably shoulda had that OOC aside in here to begin with, sorry bout that. Posting from work requires corners to be cut sometimes.

I'll quote your words in italics so's I can respond.

I told you at the beginning of the run that you were going to be evaluated on it, and that part of her job was to do that evaluation. While this particular post was a lot more haphazard than I wanted, it seemed like the players were done with posting and I wanted to wrap up the run.

I've no real problem with being evaluatedm in and of itself. My problem with this situation in the game is twofold:

1) Important information that would have helped us through the mission, and that had no plausible value in remaining hidden, was not given to us. If an employer wants a job done, he makes sure the people doing it know what they need to know, and have the tools they need to have, within the limitations of his abilities (ie - if he doesn't know, or have the tools to give).

2) We were then judged, evaluated if you will, on "failing to get" this information, which strikes me as very unfair. The point that Johnsons are not always honest was made, but here's the bottom line: If a Johnson wants a job done, he does whatever he can to help that job get done. Do Johnsons sometimes betray teams, or mislead them? Sure. But doing so is considered a way to say "goodbye" to that team. The Johnson doesn't fuck a team over and still expect them to work for him the next day. Good Johnsons, competent Johnsons, develop positive relationships of trust with their operatives. I'll also point out, just as a point of order, that it was FAR from obvious that the "tell my son" thing was a password. I didn't ask what her son looked like because, OOC, I didn't figure out what the hell she was talking about until we were already at the store.

So, to sum up: Evaluate us, sure, but lets keep the OOC evals fair...and if the IC evals aren't fair, don't be shocked when the characters get pissed over them.

OTOH, I have edited the post so that she makes it clear what she is doing and why, and even offers to set you up with other Johnson's for more serious work. If you are not interested in using her connections, you can find a different Johnson. Grittiness will be a part of this game, but I wanted to make it clear from the beginning that sometimes what shadowrunners do is not even illegal, it just needs to be hidden or requires extra competence to be sure it comes off.

Finding a different Johnson would be Juno's preference, as she has little to no confidence in Esterhouse. That said, I'll reread the post and we can discuss the matter OOC...or even IC!

I don't care if the op is legal or illegal...though we sure as hell need to know when we take the mission. I hold up the example of the checkpoint, where we thought the package was something really bad. I could easily see a scenario where one of the checkpoint guards saw the package and asked to open it. If we thought it was contraband, that'd probably lead to a wholly unnecessary gunfight. If we knew it was no big deal, we'd just show it to them and be on our merry. But that's info we need to have, and that it's in the Johnson's best interest to tell us! That's what really bites my bull about this. There's no earthly reason a Johnson would ever not give us the info we need to find a contact, for example, or disclose the legal status of a package. It's info they'd have readily available, and there's no downside to telling us, and we need it for the assignment they are giving us. It makes no sense.

I don't want the game to turn into nothing but firefights and sticking it to the corps(usually at the behest of a different corp). I want there to be more to the characters and the game than just the runs, though if I made that unclear I apologize. I am willing to adjust what I am doing to satisfy the players more. A gm unwilling to cooperate with his/her players is one who soon runs out of players.

I'm glad to hear this! I think this is great! I'd love to work with you to help make this work! I never wanted it to be just firefights and stickings. I think once we're clear on what the issues are, we can get clear on how to fix them, and this could be a great game!

[Atomicweasel]

Hear hear.

[The Hospitaler]

I will be looking to fix Ace now that I've had some time to think about things. That and I have much less on the mind for the foreseeable.

I have to think about it, though. If there are other problems take it up with me in PM, we can straighten it out and I can make a final call on my continued participation there.

[LydaLynn]

Originally Posted By: SalmonMax

I don't care if the op is legal or illegal...though we sure as hell need to know when we take the mission. I hold up the example of the checkpoint, where we thought the package was something really bad. I could easily see a scenario where one of the checkpoint guards saw the package and asked to open it. If we thought it was contraband, that'd probably lead to a wholly unnecessary gunfight. If we knew it was no big deal, we'd just show it to them and be on our merry. But that's info we need to have, and that it's in the Johnson's best interest to tell us! That's what really bites my bull about this. There's no earthly reason a Johnson would ever not give us the info we need to find a contact, for example, or disclose the legal status of a package. It's info they'd have readily available, and there's no downside to telling us, and we need it for the assignment they are giving us. It makes no sense.

I don't get this - she told you EXACTLY what you were picking up and who you were taking it to and why. You were told to get milk for puppies. What part of that is her being unclear about if the package is illegal or contraband or anything. She didn't hid anything from you - so I don't know why you're upset on this issue.

Heck, you were even told in the beginning that this run was to assess your skills. I'll grant there wasn't much of me to do in this run, but I read along with everything that happened and there were alot of places that I cringed thinking about the havoc that my previous GM would have brought down upon the party with some of the decisions that were made. I'll grant, my character is NOT a savvy runner and will often make me wince because of the things she fails to ask or do, but I wanted something fun for this game.

You're all playing so offended when there was so very much you were told up front that you chose to ignore, disregard, or read as a 'trick'. Now you're upset because you didn't expect things to turn out the way they did. I just don't get it. But then, maybe I would feel different had I actually be playing the run, I don't think so - but sometimes what you see from inside a run isn't the same as what can be seen from the outside looking in. Honestly, go back, look over everything again with fresh eyes and see if you feel the same way. I know Wyrd will work to make the game something fun for everyone. But I think you are all reacting more strongly than is warranted. I hope this can be quickly and easily resolved as I have been looking forward to playing in this game and developing this character.

[batsibf]

Originally Posted By: LydaLynn

....... I read along with everything that happened and there were alot of places that I cringed thinking about the havoc that my previous GM would have brought down upon the party with some of the decisions that were made.

was that a pun at me

but seriouly That run I was not apart of but I read it to keep up with what happened in the game it did not seem that bad to me as far as info put to the players, I have given less and expected players to do more and the did it sucessivly complete the run. I also done run where the run was not the main objective of the game sesion

[LydaLynn]

It wasn't a pun . . .

[Wyrd]

Karma rewards.

In this post I will review what exactly I expected from you, why I reacted the way I did to certain post, and tell you what you got bonus karma for. I'm being fairly generous with this award for a simple run to help salve problems caused by misunderstandings and to give players the ability to tweak their characters a little. I'm also dropping negative karma for this run, as there were just too many misunderstandings, though I will explain what I would have given it for. I hope by explaining things out of character I can make clearer exactly what I meant. If you object to any of these awards or criticisms, please tell me. I'm trying to resolve problems, not create them.

First, the easy part. Everybody gets 5 base karma, including Magnun and LydaLynn for helping with the run.

Magnun had her character ready before the run even began and only didn't participate because I asked her to help out with a portion of the run. Since I kept her from participating in the whole thing to suit an idea I had, I'm giving her an extra 1 karma.

Tabitha: Several of your posts were very detailed and interesting, giving you an extra 1 karma.

The biggest issue you had throughout this thread was not paying attention, as you already know. I'm not singling you out, and am trying to avoid losing you as a player, but the things Mrs' Esterhouse got onto you for not noticing were in the first post. It was information you were given, and something your character would have seen. This after I pointed out that you had missed important information about the location in the opening thread.

Misunderstanding what kind of car you had is something I would have covered in character creation if I had realized it, which is why I'm letting you swap it in for something else. That would have been worth negative karma because if the cops had been after you, your car would have drawn massive attention in a way that neither of the other cars would, but, again, since it was just a misunderstanding that can be adjusted.

Juno: Another of the people receiving 1 bonus karma for making interesting posts, especially the conversation between you and Baye.

What I was complaining about with your complaining was that you walked into the place and, without even looking around, declared, 'I don't want to be here, I have no interest in buying something, look at me, I'm a runner.' It would be like walking into a club and loudly asking why your Johnson wanted to meet in such a dump. It wasn't the complaining about the price, it was the assumption and the attitude that created the problem and made you not fit in in a place where you actually would have fit in.

Pulling back your aggressiveness was a good move. While you have bought flaws that make you prone to combat, there was only one point in this run where there was any danger except what you brought with you, and that was in the woods. Having three vehicles with multiple armed people in them helped discourage any wild critters from attacking. In SR, wild places are crazy dangerous, and quite a lot of the world has gone wild. Denver is within 60 miles of 6 different multi-thousand acre state parks today, which made them prime locations for meta-critters to pop up after magic returned.

Baye: The interaction with Juno gives you a point of Karma as well. I'd like to see more description from you if you want to get bonus karma in the future, but this was some of the only inter-character interaction of the run. You are one of the few to ask for information from me in chat, so I'm giving the three who did 1 extra karma. Intentionally or not, my descriptions may not always be complete. If you see something lacking, please ask me.

A request from other players is that you tone down the profanity a bit. Some of what you are saying is crude enough to offend them. I would like to request that you replace some of the words with random slang of your own. It'll still be clear that he is just as down and dirty without offending the other players. The slang can be considered 'official' slang, so it is words that people would recognize in character, without bothering the players out of character.

Jeremy: I don't have much to say about you, as you didn't say or do much, or post that often. I know you were having some RL issues that interfered with posting, and won't hold that against you, but it doesn't leave me much to say, good or bad. You did ask for more information on the Black Tusks, making you the second to get 1 karma for that.

Kisada: Like with Jeremy, RL and this run did not cooperate, leaving me with little to say except this: Flashy runners often end up dead runners.

Atasaya: MVP of the run. I'm guessing that you have more experience with GM's f'ing you over or with Shadowrun in general. You get a point for consistently descriptive posts. I'd like to give you 2 for how much more you posted, but feel that would be excessive. You asked me repeatedly for clarification. You used your astral senses to check every location, though you really should have checked Mrs. Esterhouse. For these things, you get another 1 karma. the only real flaw I could find in how you played was that you started off as a player joining with other players instead of a character meeting other characters, though I accept that a certain amount of accommodation is expected to make groups work. That makes a total +2 for this run.

My back is killing me, so I'm going to take a break before I address the more general issues. Hopefully I'll get to them tonight, if not, please wait until tomorrow to ask about things I didn't address. There are several issues I wanted to handle separately from the individual reviews.