opnet [OpNet] Just for a peek inside...

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Okay, there's been a lot of blather about Terats, Teras and whether or not we suck. I don't have have the patience for going through that kind of shit so I'm just gonna blow some shit out at you. Anyone who knows more than I do is welcome to tell me to shut the fuck up.

First, in my experience Terats don't give a shit what you think about Teras or the Teragen. Folks come to us because they want to. Because some shit has gone down in their life. Something hit them square between the eyes and they figured out that shit isn't the way they thought it was. So, the fact that you don't agree doesn't mean shit.

Second, no fucking duh that your baseline morality finds Teras abhorent. Teras isn't baseline morality. It's different. Some Terats paths and beliefs tell them that killing people every single fucking day is a-ok and what they are supposed to do. You aren't down with that? I don't care and I don't know of any Terat that fucking well does. It isn't up to us to justify ourselves to you. We're fucking different, is that so hard to figure out? It's not like Teras is some straight line from some baseline belief system.

Three, the changes that we've undergone are pretty fucking intense. I mean, just from my POV I walked out of Stigmata's looking like something fucking new. I spent a night watching other Novas really be Novas and had my face rubbed in the fact that I had been fucking faking it. Then I spend a few months as my Dark Princess bitch-boy as she spoon fed me some serious truth. Then she eased up and made me walk the last few steps on my own.

I am not human. I do not believe that I am human and I do not give a flying fuck if you think that my attitude is evil or wrong. That is your definition, and most likely your mommy and daddy's definition. Well, get your head out of the ground and pay attention to what is going on.

[Tangent]

And because of you and those like you we will be cast from this world or it shall be reduced to a burnt cinder. But please don't let that stop you.

Don't worry though Lemmo you never get what I tell you until it's way to late anyway. Just consider this an exercise in futility.

[Tarot]

So this is what penis envy looks like. Weird.

[Slattern]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tangent:
Just consider this an exercise in futility.

If you really and truly believe it to be futile why do you say anything except to perhaps hear yourself talk?

[Sakurako Hino]

I'd have to agree. That, and his reaction was quite knee-jerk in tone.

I took it that Lemmy simply minds his own business.

The question this raises is, who died and made you Judge and Jury? One person alone cannot judge another as right or wrong. If that were the case, everyone would be either incarcerating or executing each other.

There are causes worth fighting for though. Ones perhaps even worth dying for.

[Juri 'Salamander' McClendon]

Actually, my mother made me Juri. My father got to pick the boy name out, and if I'd have been a boy, my name would have been Geoff. Ewwwwww.

{clutches her X chromosome protectively}

[Xeno]

If the (perceived) tangibly threatening element of the Teragen were absent, the remaining crux would be nigh universally appealing... is it not so?

Maybe better PR, though potentially against the spirit of the movement, would afford a less disruptive environment in which to pursue the Next Level. (Unless the Next Level requires hurting This Level. That seems unlikely, but if it were so, this discussion, among other things, is very moot)

What worthy transcendence could be achieved by squishing Sweet Larvae, at any rate? No human ever reached a genuine higher state via Baby/Primate/Baby-Primate Stomping. ... It is sincerely hoped.

Thesis: Downplay the threatening elements of Teras to facilitate undisturbed focus on ascension.

[kestrel404]

Thank you Xeno, that was eloquently put (ignoring your odd phrasing). But it's the point I've been trying to make to Terats for a while.

Nothing I've learned so far about Teras requires a follower to hurt baselines. The ones that do are either trying to make a point (and failing), or seem to enjoy it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tangent]

Quote:

Originally posted by Slattern:

If you really and truly believe it to be futile why do you say anything except to perhaps hear yourself talk?

It's the same reason why getting involved in the jousting of Ashnod and Troll is pointless.

You see the two cars heading toward an intersection on collision course, neither of them stopping. You want to scream out and warn them though it seems useless. One is on their phone the other thinks you are just insulting them and flips you off. The wreck still happens.

[kestrel404]

Your analogy has only a small conceptual flaw, Tangent. Both drivers are well aware of each other, and they both believe they're driving on the right side of the road strongly enough that they don't want to turn to avoid it.

[Tarot]

Foregoing another reference to Tangent's quote and lack of penis, I'd say there are three concept flaws not one. Al's got the first one mostly right but the second is the assumption that both are going to arrive at the intersection at the same time and end up in a twisted wreck. Cute. Not a given since one of them is probably a train while the other is a little budget rental made in Bulgaria, but cute. The right of greater mass is going to come into play with the question being which one of them is which. The third is that people like Tangent are standing off to the side taking notes and yelling advice at the two vehicles. Actually they're standing in the middle of that intersection taking notes and yelling advice.

The trouble with being nova is that once you have a node you think your somehow above the idiocy going on around you when usually you're right in the middle of it. And a part of it. That's a different story though.

[Doctor Aeon]

Normally I lurk, but recent conversations have peaked my interest.

I whole-heartedly agree with Lemmy. Novas who act out on their own morality are as they should be and it is foolish to try and hold them back.

I especially admire and respect the flexibility of his morality, the fact that no one else has the right to contradict it, and how novas are beyond good and evil.

I definitely think that all novas will eventually succumb to this way of thinking and shed any pretensions of aping mankind. It has always been my belief since before my eruption. Because of that I am working toward the extinction of novakind.

By the way, Cull. I admire your intensity, though I think your name is misguided. While baselines certainly make a hash of things most of the time, Novas do the same thing, in far faster time and with fewer numbers. You could do the environment a greater favor by destroying novas instead. You would have to kill several thousand baselines to have the same effect as killing one truly destructive nova. Go to Kashmir and see what a small group of novas can do in under thirty minutes.

We are social, intellectual, and emotional pygmies in the Playground of the Gods. We are not ready for this kind of powers, as our selfishness and self-centeredness attests. While they are certainly good novas, they constantly fight their impulses, and taint and aberrations will only make their struggle harder.

From the moment of our eruptions, we are faced with the awesomeness of our potentials, but it isn't married to any kind of transcendence. The best we can come up with is "my power allows me to think as I please because Society can't hold me down anymore".

Isn't that kindergarten with a room full of Uzis and no teacher? Looks that way to me. If you don't believe me, do the experiment.

Alchemist, keep trying to be upbeat about it. Your wrong, but it is fun to watch someone paddle upstream of a waterfall with their hands.

Tarot, you amuse me. You are right about the whole mass * acceleration thing. All the while, Doctor Troll's train is getting smaller and weaker, while Ashnod's is getting stronger. The later the collision, the more anti-climactic it will be.

Oh how I begged my superiors at Project Utopia to do something about the Teragen the moment it surfaced, but no. "Utopia doesn't do that," I was told. They weren't a military or police force, but a humanitarian organization. When I designed weapons capable of dealing with novas, I was told that wasn't Project Utopia was all about. "We are here to help novas, not hunt them down and kill them".

I bet they are sorry now that Pax got his ass handed to him.

I told them that as time progressed, the more experienced novas would desert, or become incapable of working within the organization. Thank you Saxon, V, and Saimhe.

I also told them that their share of the world-wide nova population would diminish as the nova population bloomed and more Utopians became disenchanted with reigning themselves in. They believed novas would "do the right things". It was enough to make me cry, but I knew they were good people.

Well, I am glad to be in a much more pragmatic working environment now. I eagerly await the next "expressions of the New Morality".

[Preston]

First off, you owe it to Divis Mal for making the nature of the Teragen and thus terats public domain. When he stole the airwaves, he made his announcement to the WHOLE WORLD it made it so I get to ask questions.

Secondly, novas come to the Teragen for many reasons. One of the biggest seems to be that they are (opposed to /unhappy with) the existing order of things. You are a diverse group, but you don't seem to stand for anything, or more appropriately, you stand for everything that isn't the existing order. Thus you include terrorists, murderers, and criminals, along with philosophers, statesmen, and spiritualists. Good luck with that, but I feel that will come back to bite you in the ass.

Next, there is no such thing as a Teragen morality. There is your morality, and Slattern's morality, and Ashnod's morality, and Geryon's, Epoch's, and Count Orzaiz's. This is not a matter of morality, but a matter of actions.

Example: You hate people of Irish descent. Good for you. Your morality says that they are evil. That is not the same thing as lynching the next Irishman, or woman, though.

Your like, or dislike, of something, or someone, is your business. When you put your morality into action, the scope of people you are effecting also expands. Do you get that? You are not an island to yourself as long as you live on this earth.

I get that you are not human. Neither am I. I also get that you have your own, non-human, morality. At what point does that allow you to void someone else's morality through your actions? Not just you, but any terat.

Why is it okay for any nova's morality and actions based on said morality to supercede baseline morality?

I am not saying that you, Mr. Chillmeister, are saying it is okay to kill baselines. I am wondering why you are saying it is okay for another nova's to do so?

[Jager]

Don't forget the upside of individual morality. If someone cleaves to one, and fucks with you in a manner you find unacceptable, you can kill them. Without a mutually acceptable social moral scheme, there often isn't another alternative and the problem is solved.

Or, as a mentor of mine used to say,

Then you can kill them and still be a good person.

[Sakurako Hino]

Okay, is it just me, or am I the only one around here with a concience?

I wouldn't kill unless absolutely necessary to my survival. I have to admit, the situation with DeathSquad wasn't to kill him, but to help in his apprehension. Thing is, you can wish one thing, but you get another.

I find killing completely horrid. But sometimes there is a cause that you must be willing to accept the horrid, or you will end up dying for such a cause.

[Jager]

Something dies so that you can live, or so it is for all but a handful of novas.

Dying is dying, and there is rarely anything good about it. On the otherhand, the threat of ending someone's existance is one of the few common denominators we can agree on when all the old rules go out the window.

[Ashnod]

You are a diverse group, but you don't seem to stand for anything, or more appropriately, you stand for everything that isn't the existing order. Thus you include terrorists, murderers, and criminals, along with philosophers, statesmen, and spiritualists. Good luck with that, but I feel that will come back to bite you in the ass.

And for some of us, this is not entirely true.

[Preston]

And for some of us, this is not entirely true.

How so?

[Tangent]

Welcome Ashnod to the wreck ladies and gents. She isn't steering either car but she sure is a backseat driver.

One click up and you are all about the Project. Just as arrogant of course, but far less aloof. You should go talk to her sometime.

[Ashnod]

Hmmm...the temptation to respond to someone that looks and dresses exactly like someone out of Marvel Comics.

No need. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Ashnod]

You are a diverse group, but you don't seem to stand for anything, or more appropriately, you stand for everything that isn't the existing order. Thus you include terrorists, murderers, and criminals, along with philosophers, statesmen, and spiritualists. Good luck with that, but I feel that will come back to bite you in the ass.

Some of us merely want minor alterations to the existing order, and find some of it agreeable. Some of us care little for the politicing and focus exclusively on enlightenment and understanding.

[Preston]

Dry text of Revolutionary Council's 101 follows:

Society has elements A,B,C,D, and E in it. #1 wants to remove B, #2 wants to remove C, #3 wants to remove D, #4 wants to remove A,B, and C, while #5 wants to remove it all.

Who is going to win?

Current probabilities lie with #4, as they can unite with #1 and #2 to bring about some of their desires. #5 is percieved as too radical while #3 has less room to negotiate to get what it wants. #1 and #2 have to give up their attachments to elements A/C and A/B respectively to get rid of what they want, though there remains the possibility that #4 will have to accept the continuing existance of A.

What that means is this:

How many more change are you willing to accept to get the changes you want?

I am making the huge assumption that as terats you want the world to leave you to your own morality and actions. I join that to the assumption that at some time in the future the quest for mutually acceptable civil liberties will fall to the baser needs of survival.

[Jager]

Speaking of Marvel Comics, does anyone remember those old X-Men movies?

Ever wonder what novas today could play the roles of the mutants?

Not only does Apep have a bit of the "Raven Darkholme" about her, but Ashnod could be a double for "Jean Grey/Pheonix".

Anyone else?

And yes, I know who would be a shoe-in for playing Doctor Bruce Banner.

[Tangent]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
Hmmm...the temptation to respond to someone that looks and dresses exactly like someone out of Marvel Comics.

Iterations are repeated and innumerable. What is one person's fantasy in one is the reality of the other. I figured you would know that. Or did you know that and just figure it was a pot shot anyway? Either way it's all good Famke I don't hold it against you.

[Ashnod]

Sorry to disappoint you fanboys, I look nothing like Famke Janssen. The photoshop job you see on the OpNet is not me. Notice the lack of the other aberration? My eyes do not emit energy in that fashion either.

The photoshop that Jager refers to of Apep looks nothing like her, either.

[Jager]

Yeah, but they are still beautiful, if false, representations. Not everything is as it seems, or even as it should be.

Until Tangent starts referring to Mom and Dad as Sue and Reed, I'm not going to be too worried. I am a little disappointed that the sole reason for not having a discussion with someone is that they hold a resemblance to a fiction, old or new.

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lemmy Chillmeister:


Second, no fucking duh that your baseline morality finds Teras abhorent. Teras isn't baseline morality. It's different. Some Terats paths and beliefs tell them that killing people every single fucking day is a-ok and what they are supposed to do. You aren't down with that? I don't care and I don't know of any Terat that fucking well does. It isn't up to us to justify ourselves to you. We're fucking different, is that so hard to figure out? It's not like Teras is some straight line from some baseline belief system.

Isn't fun how some people hold on to lie, because they are more comforting than the truth?

Lemmy, go read a fucking book. There is no such thing as a "baseline morality". You are just throwing your ego around, and you are mad because people aren't bowing down to you. Well sorry, I have seen bigger men than you.

I mean for fucks sake, I saw Nazi death camps, when they were being closed down. I have talked to saviors of death marches. I have seen beggars give strangers the shirts off their backs. So don't you dare say that there is a baseline morality. Don't you dare say that baselines are one group. They have had slavers, and savors. They have killed and given life. They have had wars, and peace. No one is the same as the next.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
I am a little disappointed that the sole reason for not having a discussion with someone is that they hold a resemblance to a fiction, old or new.

I would think it would depend on whether the resemblance is accidental or deliberate and how close it is. If he's one of those nutter butters that shave their heads and sew their own Team Tomorrow uniforms so they can look snappy while pretending they're Pax its probably going to be a pretty short "discussion".

If the resemblance is close enough what would you talk about? How heroic he was in issue 12?

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Yeah, but they are still beautiful, if false, representations. Not everything is as it seems, or even as it should be.

Until Tangent starts referring to Mom and Dad as Sue and Reed, I'm not going to be too worried. I am a little disappointed that the sole reason for not having a discussion with someone is that they hold a resemblance to a fiction, old or new.

The "uncanny" resemblence is coincidental enough. The fashion sense has to be deliberate.

Aside from that, I recall no invitation for discourse on Tangent's part. It was merely a pot shot, to which I responded in kind.

[Sakurako Hino]

I guess I'm not the only one with a colorful wardrobe.

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:

Nothing I've learned so far about Teras requires a follower to hurt baselines. The ones that do are either trying to make a point (and failing), or seem to enjoy it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Wrong? Maybe, maybe not. But you won't listen to what we're saying either.

Teras demanding violence? Meh. Depends. But someone's individual evolution? That's a different thing altogether. And the same thing too. Weird eh?

[Xeno]

If one's individual development demanded violence, that would be a function of the individual's mental kernel (which is generally obtained pre-eruption), would it not? The demand is thus only as significant as the Nova's intent, yes?

That eruption converts baseline-oid psychological disfunction (e.g. an unqualified desire to damage others) to logically sanctioned behavior by providing an immediate and significant means of indulging the fault... seems unlikely. Though the possibility is not being ruled out.

[Walker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
...Nothing I've learned so far about Teras requires a follower to hurt baselines. The ones that do are either trying to make a point (and failing), or seem to enjoy it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm going to leave the ones that are 'trying to make a point and failing' and talk about the ones that seem to enjoy it. I presume you're banging on about the Monsters here, right? Yes it's insane by baseline standards. I mean, going around acting like something out of a fairy tale grinding bones to make your bread and that sort of stuff, what the fuck could anyone learn from that?


I'll be buggered if I know.


Works for them though, bless their little quantum socks. Yep it's really, really insane by the majority of Baseline standards. Somehow it works. I put it down to the fact that the whole universe is generally a nasty and violent place. I tell you, when I catch up with the insane alien Nova who dreamt up the parameters of this existence I'm gonna kick it in the nuts. Or whatever it has, it will definitely hurt, put it that way

[Slattern]

Quote:

Originally posted by Xeno:
If one's individual development demanded violence, that would be a function of the individual's mental kernel (which is generally obtained pre-eruption), would it not? The demand is thus only as significant as the Nova's intent, yes?

To follow Teras, or more acurately, to truly follow Teras requires a great deal of introspection and self-knowledge. One is not a Monster if one simply wakes up one morning and decides they'd like to see the room decorated in a lighter shade of intestine. It takes a shade more than that, okay?

[Xeno]

What does it take? Is it a matter of intent, or a threshold of actual activity? Is there any path of ascendance that Teras itself would ultimately define as unacceptable?

...

Many of the interesting questions sound critical. Criticism is not the intent. Data is urgently sought.

[Dreamer]

Really, Lemmy what is baseline morality? Japan's treatment of Chinese in the 30's? The Church's blind eye? The bombers who kill to save lives? The Red Cross? GLAD? Liberal? Jewish? Atheist? Mormon? Greeko-Roman? Hindu? Dow? NRA? GOP? Texan? Amish?

So tell me if the teras is not base line morality. What one is? Or do you wish to go about your happy little rebel rant claiming to be something new, and different when you will not even define what you are different from? I could say, I am not a Thricer. But that means shit, if you don't know what a thricer is. So either define what you are, or define what you are not. But until you do one or the other, then you are nothing.

[Sarah 'Pulse' McIntyre]

I think that Teragen novas will claim that baseline morality is one that is centered around the well-being of baselines, and that Teras or whatever is nova-centric. For whatever that means. Morality is already subjective to each person. Just happens that a lot of individual morality overlaps with others, making it seem like a common or universal thing.

[Sakurako Hino]

Erm... It could also include a whole acceptance of stewardship of the planet.

After all, we live here and have a responibility to the Novas we come across and to the Humans we affect every day.

Accepting the responsibilities of our gifts isn't a weakness in my eyes, but a sign of moral stregnth and character.

[Ashnod]

Responsibilities to what or to whom?

[Edward]

To the health and well being of the planet. We are here. We live here. We must protect the planet. To do otherwise is despicable.