opnet [OpNet] Sick Of The Anti-Utopian Garbage

[Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge]

Everyone enjoys clean air and water, nutritious food and more of it, technological breakthroughs and more or less a better world since the Project came along.

So quit putting rubbish on us. If you don't like us or the work we do, contact the Daedalus League and join them in the search for another planet.

It's like the anti-democracy protestor complaining about the democracy which gives them the right to protest in the first place.

I'll probably cop heat for making this announcement, but I have spent literally half my life making this world a better place for everyone, nova and baseline alike. I don't like to see my efforts and those of my fellow Utopians, be they Tomorrowites or civilians, disparaged.

[Amped]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge:


So quit putting rubbish on us. If you don't like us or the work we do, contact the Daedalus League and join them in the search for another planet.

What the hell? Since when am I not able to have an opinion and express that opinion? This is my planet as well, and if I don't agree with something going on, I have just as much right to do something as Utopia does...so you can shove your opinions down your throat like you are telling me to. Quite simply...screw you, I have as much right to my opinion as you do, and I don't need Utopia to help me in any means.

With that said, I don't disagree with what they're doing either, I support some of it, some of it I disagree with, it's your thoughts of telling me to shove my opinion that bothers me. Things aren't going your way..."wah" grow up. I'm 15 and I'm acting more mature than you are.

Don't you dare accuse me of being anti-Utopian either. I don't have any of those sentiments. You can ask Dervish about that. (Sorry to mention you in this hon, but I wouldn't like people giving your organization a bad name.)

[Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge]

Young man, I was referring to those people who enjoy the improvements that the Project has brought to the world and yet complain about what we do.

I can accept constructive criticism. But much of what has been said is far from it.

[Magus]

Ms Bainbridge as with most things there are two sides to the matter. Some are going to chafe at the restrictions of TechReg believing rightly or wrongly that the restrictions should not be applied to them. I would be willing to venture a guess that speaking hypothetically there is someone with that opinion that is right. Some will notice that Project Utopia's authority has little to do with law and much to do with what is allowed by the United Nations security council. As such they will decry the infringement on sovereign rights. Project Utopia sits on the same national security council from whence comes their "authority" and has influence that in many ways surpasses that of the United States at the height of its influence and prestige.

Many of the nay sayer do in fact need to grow up and acquire maturity in their outlook. However Project Utopia is no longer a simple charity and its personnel would do well to do the same.

[Tarot]

Or people are people and they just really get off on bitching.

Alot.

[billy Horrorshow]

I'll quit busting Utopia's chops when they finally pay that extra money to teach Skew some grammar.

On a similar note: Alot? :sigh:

Moving on:

Utopia's just an easy target because it's the closest thing we have to Big Brother these days...and it's not accountable to any one country.

By the way, is it Utopia or the Novas who work for Utopia who've done all this good for mankind? I know a lot of people who hate the bureacracy of Utopia but love what some of its members are doing.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by billy Horrorshow:
I know a lot of people who hate the bureacracy of Utopia but love what some of its members are doing.

Precisely.

[Walker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge:
Everyone enjoys clean air and water, nutritious food and more of it, technological breakthroughs and more or less a better world since the Project came along...

It's the or less part that worries most Novas I know. Everyone seems to benefit as long as you ignore the costs to the Novas involved. As to people bitching about them, any organisation worth it's salt can take a little flak and withstand change. If it can't it was probably just a house of cards anyway.

Constructive critisism? Utopia, as befits it's name, should stick to the environmental and humanitarian work and that alone. The peacekeeping aspects and the 'looking after' of dangerous Novas turns them into an entirely different type of organisation in my book.

[kestrel404]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge:
Everyone enjoys clean air and water, nutritious food and more of it, technological breakthroughs and more or less a better world since the Project came along.

Magic Eightball Says: Yes

So quit putting rubbish on us. If you don't like us or the work we do, contact the Daedalus League and join them in the search for another planet.

Magic Eightball Says: Not Likely

It's like the anti-democracy protestor complaining about the democracy which gives them the right to protest in the first place.

Magic Eightball Says: No

Utopia does not make the world go round. It's helped us do things in the past. For the most part, it helps people and the world. But it is NOT ALL SWEETNESS AND LIGHT.

I complain about some aspects of Utopia. Just like I complain about some aspects of the US government (corporate whoring, copyright issues, getting decent science grants...). Because they bug me, and because they could be done better.

If you simply accept every aspect of a beuracracy without fighting to change the bad parts, guess what? The whole thing goes sour. I don't expect these things to get fixed from within (they sometimes do, but not often). Generally, the only way to fix something is to complain about it, then act on those complaints.

What, you don't see me acting on my complaints? Check with the lobbying groups working with TechReg and see what they're lobbying for these days. I'm one of the Novas on this board that works WITHIN the system. (Not that I have the huge wads of cash necessary to get things done quickly...)

[Timeslip]

Synergy, you can pout and whine all you wish, but the "Anti-Utopian garbage" is the result of Project Utopia's own actions, and is well deserved.

Project Utopia has long since gone beyond the bounds of its dubious UN mandate. Utopia has taken -- through its paramilitary "Team Tomorrow" wing -- the self-styled role of judge, jury and executioner. Project Utopia increasingly functions without reasonable checks or balances.

Then there's the little matter of eugenics. Do not think that the conception rate -- or lack thereof -- of those who have accepted Utopia's "help" after initial quantum manifestation has gone unnoticed. (You can shout "tin foil hat conspiracy theorist" all you wish, but the fact remains that those who have been "processed" through Project Utopia's facilities have produced no offspring.)

In short, Project Utopia acts as though it were an absolute sovereign over novakind, and the sort of power that it wields has long sinse corrupted it to the core, regardless of whatever benign intent may or may not have been that of the founders.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Psimon: …the infringement on sovereign rights.

My observation has been “sovereign rights” is normally raised by Countries that are doing things they shouldn’t. Butchering and/or oppressing their people, etc.

,,

Timeslip: Then there's the little matter of eugenics. Do not think that the conception rate -- or lack thereof -- of those who have accepted Utopia's "help" after initial quantum manifestation has gone unnoticed. (You can shout "tin foil hat conspiracy theorist" all you wish, but the fact remains that those who have been "processed" through Project Utopia's facilities have produced no offspring.)

Ah, that old chestnut. Just because it made it onto the pages of the “Enquirer” doesn’t make it true.

Firstly, nova reproduction is a universal problem. Sterile appears to be the default, regardless of whether or not we are treated.

Secondly, I’ve gone through their full treatment and I’m fertile.

And finally, most members of Utopia at least try to have private lives. Just because we join doesn’t mean we feel the need to tell the press every time we have intimate relations. I wouldn’t assume there are no children around, just because there haven’t been any press conferences holding up our offspring for public adoration and abuse.

If you go back to the pages of the Enquirer I’m sure you’ll find several reported “s/he’s pregnant” stories involving various novas, including Utopian ones.

[Magus]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
My observation has been “sovereign rights” is normally raised by Countries that are doing things they shouldn’t. Butchering and/or oppressing their people, etc.

The United States of America has raised the issue of sovereign rights in regards to Project Utopia policies. Are we butchering and oppressing our people or are we the exception?

[billy Horrorshow]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:

If you go back to the pages of the Enquirer I’m sure you’ll find several reported “s/he’s pregnant” stories involving various novas, including Utopian ones.[/QB]

According to said paper, I've got 3 love children, one of which is Bat-boy. Now that's flattery.

[Jager]

China, Japan, and the United States have all complained about UN/Utopian policies.

Now, what else do all these nations have in common?

[Dreamer]

They all sit on the UN-Security....

They all are part of the G8?

They all like hot blond school girls?

[Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge]

The wheels of bureaucracy grind fine and slow, and none more so than Project Utopia's. I would be lying if I said that the Project didn't have its bad eggs, but that's where Internal Affairs come in.

If we didn't have a place to hold and treat the more dangerous and Tainted novas, who would?

I haven't encountered any evidence that the Project is to blame for nova sterility - some novas are more fertile than others. If I so chose, I could have children myself, as my metabolism is optimised to levels above and beyond that of most other novas.

Apart from thinking that they are incredibly irresponsible for releasing inaccurate, ill-considered and incendiary statements, I have no personal problem with the non-terrorist members of the Teragen. It's the terrorist factions like Nova Vigilance and the Primacy that I have a strong dislike for. They may claim that we are a separate species to baseline humanity, but I have yet to see genetic or social evidence of this.

Show me a group of novas who have done as much for the world as Team Tomorrow and the Project's civilian staff, and I'll shut up and grant them their kudos. But until then, I will defend my colleagues and team-mates.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Jager:
China, Japan, and the United States have all complained about UN/Utopian policies.
Now, what else do all these nations have in common?

China very much oppresses it's people, including and especially it's nova people. That's the official policy, the unofficial policy is worse as they supply most of the world's soma.

Japan has issues with the tech police, or perhaps they are paid to have issues with them. Two of their bigger (read 'more influential') industries are high tech companies and the mob.

The United States very much liked being the biggest and baddest kid on the world stage and is very unhappy about being less big and less bad. Other than that I'm not sure they actually have any problems with Utopia (although that is enough).

The only one that surprises me is Japan. Within living memory they have had nukes used on their cities... something they now share with Mexico. Japan was at war. Mexico probably just had something get away from someone. It's been long enough someone would have boasted about it or done it again if it were anything else.

[Sakurako Hino]

*stares at this thread with total boredom*

Seesh, same old same old. I'm away for a bit, and everyone hasn't changed one bit.

As for my opinion on Utopia... let's say this. After my entanglement with 1 Nova, I sure as hell don't want to tangle with several. Hate to admit it, but they trump me. I could look for "self evolution" all I damn well please, but PU will just have the stregnth in numbers.

That's why PU gets heat. They got stregnth in numbers.

[Gerald Haney]

Lemme add to Rowena's list.

Utopia helped clean up organized crime to a degree no one thought was possible. They help prevent corporations from releasing dangerous technologies on a public that couldn't defend themselves. They saved untold millions from starvation and they're beating back the desert.

And people bitch because the U.S. isn't running the show anymore, China feels "threatened" (wow. big suprise there) and third world countries actually have someone on their side for once.

You can all just bitch and moan to your heart's content. I think I'm actually going to try to help people. You can shout out "You missed a spot" every once and awhile if it makes you feel good.

[Sakurako Hino]

And, just to sort of clairify my last post everyone, I don't hate Utopia... I fear them.

[Walker]

Synergy Everyone tries to do the best thing as they understand it and of course everyone's entitled to their own opinion. So here's my opinion on your opinions, my challenges on what I perceive as your assumptions and preconceptions...

If (Utopia) didn't have a place to hold and treat the more dangerous and Tainted novas, who would?

Well, if you put it like that. I guess that if Utopia couldn't do it, it would be left to those Novas that had an understanding and appreciation of the plight of their fellows. Like, I dunno, the Teragen perhaps?

I have no personal problem with the non-terrorist members of the Teragen. It's the terrorist factions...

There is a 'faction' within the Teragen that will help a Nova out because it is the Nova and right thing to do, they'll lend a helping hand and if you don't want to join the Teragen that's fine, you don't have to. That's what Nova Vigilance are all about. Sure they go a bit over the top for my personal tastes but at the end of the day one man's Freedom Fighter is another man's Terrorist, it all depends on which side of the fence you are. I have no problem with the non violent aspects of Utopia

They may claim that we are a separate species to baseline humanity, but I have yet to see genetic or social evidence of this.

Have you ever considered that the Teragen is a social sign of the difference between Baseline and Nova? How about the MR Node, isn't that a big biological difference?

Show me a group of novas who have done as much for the world as Team Tomorrow and the Project's civilian staff, and I'll shut up and grant them their kudos.

Show me a group of Novas who have done as much for Novakind as the Teragen and I'll shut up and... Well I'll shut up maybe if you're lucky

Gerald: You can all just bitch and moan to your heart's content. I think I'm actually going to try to help people. You can shout out "You missed a spot" every once and awhile if it makes you feel good.

Excellent sentiments, pass me my firey sword.

[Timeslip]

Quote:

I haven't encountered any evidence that the Project is to blame for nova sterility - some novas are more fertile than others.

Fine: lets see some post-processing reproductive results from Utopian Novas. So far, I've seen none, where as I have seen offspring from Novas that had the good sense (or good luck) to stay well away from Utopia's "help" when the headaches hit.

Quote:

Utopia helped clean up organized crime to a degree no one thought was possible.

And yet, organized crime still thrives; in fact, it is doing better in some quarters than it has at any time since Prohibition, which brings us to...

Quote:

They help prevent corporations from releasing dangerous technologies on a public that couldn't defend themselves.

The only major results have been to drive serious research underground and to increase the power of the black market and the aforementioned organized crime.

Quote:

They saved untold millions from starvation and they're beating back the desert.

One of the very few points in Project Utopia's favor...and frankly, I'm not sure if it was really altruism or a public relations stunt so that they could secure their dubious mandate from the U.N. (and set up their headquarters in Addis Ababa).

Quote:

Teragen...blah, blah, blah...Teragen...blah, blah, blah...Teragen...

Bringing up the Teragen is a simple and transparent effort at deflection. This isn't about the Teragen; it's about Project Utopia. The Teragen have plenty of problems of their own, but this isn't some black-or-white, zero-sum game -- it is possible for both of these organizations to be royally rotten.

[kestrel404]

Walker: I have as many problems with the Teragen (as an organization) as I do with Utopia (as an organization). You can point out individual Terats who are wonderful people. You can do the same with individual Utopians. As a group, Utopia generally has the moral high ground simply because of the amount of blood on terat hands.

When Synergy asked "If (Utopia) didn't have a place to hold and treat the more dangerous and Tainted novas, who would?", the more important aspect of that is the 'hold' part, where those novas are prevented form killing people. The Teragen supports and endorses murder (of baselines by novas), through inaction.

I understand that the Teragen will not police their own. I understand that we are seperate species in their eyes. I understand that they will not accept baseline laws. But the killing of a baseline by a nova (or any permutation thereof) is still murder, regardless of species boundaries, legalities, or cultural differences.

What should we do with murderers? Stop them from murdering again. In the case of self defence, this is unnecessary (the threat to their life ended with the person that they killed, thus killing in Self Defence is not considdered criminal). In the case of a crime of passion, behavioral factors should be taken into account, and treatment should help. In the case of pre-meditated murder, incarceration is generally the only reasonable preventative measure. The Teragen won't do this. Someone has to.

I am making the absolute statement that murder is wrong. If anyone wants to debate me on that, feel free.

Utopians: I said my peace for you.

[Tarot]

So, Al. What you're really saying is that Project Utopia only violates the civil liberties of murderous Terats. Therefore the whole thing about locking someone up on whatever charge they can think of after a kangaroo court but before throwing away the key is justified. And of course none of this is my business unless I happen to be a murdering terat. Thanks, I certainly feel as if you've cleared up the whole thing.

What a bunch of religious zealots you all are.

[kestrel404]

Who said I agreed with the Utopians? Read the first part of my post again. All I'm saying is: They're both wrong. We need something in the middle.

[Tarot]

Black and white. Round and round.

"My religion is better than your religion!"

"Nuh uh, my religion is sweet and your's sux azz!"

Project Utopia does great things but don't mind the guys behind the curtain stomping the shit out of that freak that's out of step with the rest of the parade. The Teragen does great things but don't mind those guys behind the curtain stomping the shit out of that suckup that wants to get in step with the rest of the parade. Al, why would you ever think that I would care whether you agreed with Utopia or the Teragen.

Do I look that bored?

Zealots. We all know both religions are flawed. Despite their initial promise of doing great things, neither one of them can go the distance. Now its time for all of you to seriously consider the truth and promise of the one true religion...

Taroism: Comprehending The Divine Aesthetic

[kestrel404]

No, I thought you were saying I agreed with Utopia's lock 'em up if they look weird policy. Not what I'm saying at all, but that's sure how it sounded coming from you.

[Tarot]

Oh. My bad then.

How it should have sounded was that you're perpetuating the Black vs White, Utopia vs Teragen crap. Cool that you made yourself available for the discussion on murder but you should leave the religions of materialism out of it.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Synergy If (Utopia) didn't have a place to hold and treat the more dangerous and Tainted novas, who would?

Walker: I guess that if Utopia couldn't do it, it would be left to those Novas that had an understanding and appreciation of the plight of their fellows. Like, I dunno, the Teragen perhaps?

Somehow I can’t see the Teragen lifting a finger. The answer is, if there weren’t a place to hold and treat the more dangerous and tainted novas, they would be killed. Utopia has a prison, everyone else including the Teragen has murder. Decide for yourself which is more ethical.

Walker: Show me a group of Novas who have done as much for Novakind as the Teragen and I'll shut up and... Well I'll shut up maybe if you're lucky

Utopian Medicine: Drugs for nova problems (Andies, Mox). Research into taint. Research into helping pre-novas erupt. Research into nova sterility.

Teragen Medicine: Taint is good. Get more.

Utopian Diplomacy: End War in various areas (by far the number one killer of novas). Attempted to end the use of elites in war (death of Slag). Mixed success. Has had more success in convincing various governments to grant novas the same “human” rights that are granted to other people.

Teragen Diplomacy: Encourages baselines to be nicer to novas through the murder of baselines. It isn’t that big a stretch to say COMA was founded in response to their actions/existence.

[kestrel404]

Tarot: What part of 'We need something in the middle' translates to 'Black Vs. White'?

Doc Troll: Taking the Terats at their word for the 'Crysalis ability(?)', I will re-phrase your argument without the (exceedingly obvious) bias.

Utopian Medicine: Drugs for novas (Adrenocilin, Mox, Morphine). Tell them to practice safe super-power use or they will get the icky taint that we can't cure (meanwhile, making sure this taint is as nasty as possible).

Teragen Medicine: A new way of seeing the world so that 'taint' is used constructively.

I'd say that's a win for them.

Diplomacy: Other than the fact that COMA would be around REGARDLESS of the Teragen (in fact, they started cropping up before the Teragen did), you have a point.

[Timeslip]

Quote:

Research into nova sterility.

I'd say that they've already pretty much got that one solved...just not in the way that most Novas would like. But that's OK, Doctor; you just go ahead and continue to spout the Utopian party line like a good boy.

[Ashnod]

Re: Alchemist.

Thank you.

Re: Troll -

Walker: Show me a group of Novas who have done as much for Novakind as the Teragen and I'll shut up and... Well I'll shut up maybe if you're lucky.

Your given examples of Utopia's successes for "novakind" demonstrate a remarkable lack of vision. In each instance, those successes grant a larger or equally substantial benefit to baseline humanity.

Example: Has had more success in convincing various governments to grant novas the same “human” rights that are granted to other people.

Stating novas are not human while they are not a united people forces them to either unite or lash out against the "humans" that would then persecute them.

In case one, a united nation of "superhuman" beings poses a bigger threat to the status quo than several individuals living amongst the general populace with no common cause. It also keeps the ego of said superhumans in check, hopefully preventing them from contemplating the idea that they are better or superior to the common man or woman. Even better, we can socialize the idea of great power with great responsibility combined with a very high salary, and use these beyond-current-technology-science-wielding beings to correct much of the ills created over the past 2000 years.

In case two, while the extinction of the nova species seems mathematically probable, the cost to baseline life to try eliminating these beings would be disastrous, particularly the ones who exist on a level great enough to survive most forms of current conventional weaponry.

Combine the two: It is better for baseline humanity to have Pax, Splash, Skew, and Geisha believing they are human with extra talents, working to the idea of bettering the world, than it is to try and persecute them and deal with the damage they would unleash while trying to bring them down.

Another way of looking at the argument you are presenting.

Encourages baselines to be nicer to novas through the murder of baselines

By the same tactics of debate, I could state that Utopia's humanitarian efforts to discover the nature of Taint can be summed up by their treatment of Caroline Fong while she was under their "custody." I could state that their fairness towards novas who reject their ideals can be summed up in their incarceration of Sluice, who was sent to Bahrain for peacefully violating a "law" preventing novas from entering a Florida city.

[Jager]

I am still curious what Caroline was incarcerated for. Anyone?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I'm not sure she was.

[Ashnod]

She was. She is no longer.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Ashnod: Your given examples of Utopia's successes for "novakind" demonstrate a remarkable lack of vision. In each instance, those successes grant a larger or equally substantial benefit to baseline humanity.

So for one person to eat, another must go hungry? Untrue and your own arguments show lack of “vision”. Our loss is not their gain. Their gain is not our loss. By working together everyone wins.

Troll: Has had more success in convincing various governments to grant novas the same “human” rights that are granted to other people.

Ashnod: Stating novas are not human while they are not a united people forces them to either unite or lash out against the "humans" that would then persecute them.

Much more likely the baselines would have just killed all newly erupted novas while we were weak. A few countries still do.

Ashnod: …In case one, a united nation of "superhuman" beings poses a bigger threat to the status quo than several individuals living amongst the general populace with no common cause.

That would be why it’s the various Utopian’s who try to unify and the Terats who make that impossible (even among yourselves).

Ashnod: Even better, we can socialize the idea of great power with great responsibility combined with a very high salary, and use these beyond-current-technology-science-wielding beings to correct much of the ills created over the past 2000 years.

That’s more of a free market thing. The other big effect of the free market has been the elite phenomenon, which is our number one killer.

Ashnod: …while the extinction of the nova species seems mathematically probable, the cost to baseline life to try eliminating these beings would be disastrous, particularly the ones who exist on a level great enough to survive most forms of current conventional weaponry.

Not if they’d done it back before Utopia stepped in.

Ashnod: …It is better for baseline humanity to have Pax, Splash, Skew, and Geisha believing they are human with extra talents, working to the idea of bettering the world, than it is to try and persecute them and deal with the damage they would unleash while trying to bring them down.

Cooperation is indeed better than hostility and persecution. That’s why if Geisha had dealt with that major rather than Geryon, Tampa would be far less hostile to novas today. A nova or three might nova have been forced to move by a hostile local populace. COMA would have fewer members down there. Some novas might even still be alive.

Ashnod: I could state that their fairness towards novas who reject their ideals can be summed up in their incarceration of Sluice, who was sent to Bahrain for peacefully violating a "law" preventing novas from entering a Florida city.

Without Geryon, Sluice would have been used as a legal test case to bring down all of those types of laws.

With Geryon Sluice became just a member of a terrorist band. Guilt by association, but it still kept him in jail much longer and killed the whole idea.

Ashnod: By the same tactics of debate, I could state that Utopia's humanitarian efforts to discover the nature of Taint can be summed up by their treatment of Caroline Fong while she was under their "custody."

??? Who? I need a few more details here.

[Jordan]

Caroline Fong wasn't technically "incarcerated" by the Project. She was "discovered" by Team Tomorrow in a catatonic-like state and taken to the Bahrain facility for "observation". When she finally "woke up" the project had the choice of "continuing her observation" (Most likely against her will) which would have resulted in an escape/rescue attempt which would have lead to enormous damage to he facility and surrounding envirions. Instead they (in my humble opinion) wisely let her go free.

Take that for what it's worth but that is my understanding of the situation.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
Tarot: What part of 'We need something in the middle' translates to 'Black Vs. White'?

Pretty much all of it, Al.

Utopia and the Teragen are the two biggest philosophical bully boys on the planet and not the totality of existence baseline or nova. This seesawing back and forth over who did what first, who created who first, it's all bullshit. And from this we get the segue of, "Murder is wrong."

We don't need something in the middle. We need people to grow the fuck up. Guess what, Al? Whatever callous sociopathic fucktard figures they're set to gain from someone getting murdered is going to try and murder somebody. Now did you have something to say about that or was this just a debate opportunity to polish the "whether murder is wrong or not" splooge fest?

This is just like all the ignorant dorks "discussing" taint. Everyone has an opinion whether they know anything on the subject. Talking about it gives the dorks a raging hunk of wood while having no effect on anything other than their post count. Newsflash for the club; regurgitating the same meaningless unproveable crap doesn't generate "enlightenment" or "awareness".

[Jager]

Instead we get this:

http://www.nprime.net/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000491;p=0

which besides telling us what a wonderful nova Tarot is does what for the rest of novakind?

Tarot, just because you find little or no relevance in what other contribute and want to talk about does not mean it has no value, only that you are incapable of finding value in it. Try being a little more tolerant and open-minded. This is the N!Prime Forum, not the Tarot Blog.

[Ashnod]

Post removed - will repost soon. Apologies for the confusion.

-Ashnod