opnet [OpNet] Novas and Violence

[Jager]

Do you feel that =>

... novas are too violent?

... novas are too involved with global violence?

... nova violence has a purpose?

... novas exult a violence subculture, or allow baselines to exult us for being violent?

... the majority of novas erupt with violent QEs? And, if so, why we do?

Now, if you think novas are violence-prone, what do you think could be done about it?

Should something be done about it?

[Edward]

Some of them.

Some of them.

Yes.

I do not know.

QE?

I think that violent novas that serve the world should be allowed to continue. Those novas that harm the world should be killed.

Yes.

[Violette 'V' D'Aronique]

1) I believe for a variety of reasons that we are encouraged to enter violent professions. Money, patriotism, fame, responsibility of power, etc. I don't believe violence is innate to the nova condition.

2) Yes. We are used as peacekeepers and soldiers for nations, ranging from hired Elite to patriotic defender. We're told this is more humane, as it prevents higher loss of life, and as it is not humane to have novas in combat with baselines whenever possible.

3) No. It has no significant purpose than any violence does. Violence is violence.

4) Yes, we allow ourselves to be exalted for our violence. In my experiences, baselines love to watch us fight. They like pitting us against each other like comic book or anime characters. When I was with T2M, I would frequently be asked if I thought I could beat (insert terat and elite nova here) in a fight, and how I would do it.

5) No. I think that we erupt with quantum expressions that can be used in violent ways. I control bio-electricity, which can be used as an attack, but there are so many other applications for it as well. I think it's natural for people to be drawn to destruction, to watch the visual effects of it happen, so it's more interesting to watch me electrocute someone that it is to watch me absorb all the electrical current in a disaster area to prevent accidents from downed power lines.

6) I don't novas are violence prone, but I do think we're encouraged to be violent and that we enjoy the encouragement and the rewards that are given to us by being violent.

[Wakinyan]

Usually don't most of us have violent QEs because of the nature of our eruption? People always say it is always to easy to resort to violence. Is that what we do when we erupt?

[Jager]

QE's stands for Quantum Expression, also known as your Quantum Powers.

Usually don't most of us have violent QEs because of the nature of our eruption?

Good point, but there are also several examples of that not being the case.

Doctor Troll got upset with his computer.

Meridian was late for work, I believe.

We erupt powerfully, but is it still the case that extreme power (from the perspective of one person having that much power) leads to making the easy (violent) choice?

Cull, what do you see as the purpose of violence? Can it be both good and bad?

Besides yourself, do you see any other novas making those kind of ecological choices you are making?

V, do you see violence as totally negative (without purpose), or is the application of violence being misused?

Personally, do you feel any difference, from a physical perspective, between applying your QE's n a non-violent manner and a violent one?

If novas are encouraged toward violence means, were does that violence come from? Is it intrinsic in the human condition, or is it from other novas?

I also wonder how many of us have attempted to empathize with what Geisha, Count Orzaiz, and John Argyle go through, working non-violently in a violent world?

[Xeno]

Consensus indicates that the primary general distinction between Nova violence and Baseline violence is capacity. Many behavioral deviations are analogous to those seen between an individual unarmed, and an individual given a firearm.

Having said that:

1: In an ideal situation, it is humbly asserted, any violence would be excessive. Reality is arguably not ideal at present. However, Novas are perhaps more violent than they need to be, though perhaps no more than non-Novas overall. ... With the above statements adjusted for the higher incidence of psychological disfunction observed in Nova-kind.

2: Violent beings get involved in violence. Acquisition and defense of things are common activities. Novas are good at these activities. How could Novas be collectively significantly less involved than they are?

3: Beyond the basic functions of violence (making others less intact, etc) Nova violence provides a reminder that meat can become quantum saturated and interesting, but minds are less easily twisted from their tracks.

4: Generalizations are discomforting. These things happen often.

5: The mind drives the eruption. Minds want things. Acquisition via violence is deeply engrained.

The issue is a fundamental one. Baseline culture and psychology, from which Nova culture and psychology is spawned, would need to be altered. It seems unlikely to change outside of massive external influence to that effect. No functional means of doing so without significant moral/ethical implications is immediately clear.

Steady state will be found, improvement will take place, or extinction will come to pass. In any case, it will always be good Inside, and those who do not like it Outside might perhaps go there instead.

...

All of the above is opinion, not intended to indicate any course of action or deviation from any pre-standing viewpoint. Correction of any flawed logic/perception/theorization is politely encouraged.

[Vox Via]

There is no point in history where purely non violent means have changed the world on any large or radical scale. The odd thing is that often more people die from non-violent means than violent actions.

I say that violence is only the real answer when no reasonable means have or will work.

[Violette 'V' D'Aronique]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
V, do you see violence as totally negative (without purpose), or is the application of violence being misused?
Personally, do you feel any difference, from a physical perspective, between applying your QE's n a non-violent manner and a violent one?
If novas are encouraged toward violence means, were does that violence come from? Is it intrinsic in the human condition, or is it from other novas?

Yes, I see violence as totally negative, something that is used when absolutely necessary to prevent a greater harm from being committed. I understand that it has a necessity at times, and that the threat of it makes a very useful deterrent, but what's the point of it otherwise?

Does it feel differently to use QE violently vs non-violently? Only in one's mind and soul. The physical sensation of pushing quantum through the node is roughly the same for me. Might be different for someone else, but I don't get any quantum rush when I have to shock a living thing. Nor do I get a thrill or high off it either.

Like I said, I think people, novas and baseline, are drawn to destruction. I think baselines enjoy watching us commit destruction in ways and on levels that they personally can't. There's something hypnotic about watching a burning building, or a crash, or a tornado tearing up the countryside, or ship sinking. It's so out of the ordinary, so "not in the normal" that it's awe-inspiring and captivating.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Usually don't most of us have violent QEs because of the nature of our eruption?

Good point, but there are also several examples of that not being the case.

Doctor Troll got upset with his computer.

While my life wasn't in danger, I was under a great deal of stress. Three days of a bad headache, etc. The violence of my eruption was a response to that stress. The majority of eruptions are from stress, even if that stress isn't always life threatening.

Even aside from that, there is the "everything is a weapon" problem. Something as simple as a hammer can be a lethal weapon. Most novas have something that could be used as a hammer, laser, car, or whatever.

Take Alejandra. She is one of the few people who erupted from something other than stress, and basically became a very "Angelic" figure. Superhuman beauty, singing, flight, and she's a very likeable and peaceful person.

Enough sound can shatter eardrums, or even bones. Any bets on whether her control over sound lets her generate that much? Just off hand I'd guess "yes", not that I even know that she knows.

[Magus]

Stress can be positive or negative. David Smith experiencing problems with a computer after 3 days of migraines possibly experieneced feelings of frustration and anger. Alejandra attempting to perform worthily, the definition of worthily possibly out of synch with objective reality, and been in no less stressful a situation.

In both cases the individual erupted and that leads to classing the circumstances as motivationally positive stress. Accurate classification of the situations into positive and negative is difficult without making subjective judgements on the outcomes of the eruptions. Both individual could use their abilities in violent and socially destructive manners.

[Gerald Haney]

Well, I'm not a violent guy. Yep, I was pretty stressed out when I erupted but that's just because I didn't want to lose my job. Most violent thing I've ever done was to call a bouncer over to...well....bounce someone.

Do I help take down the average?

[Jager]

Gerald, were you comfortable calling over someone to commit violence on your behalf?

Seriously, the premier nova hot spot on the globe hires elites to "keep the peace". Is this seen as a hold over from our baseline clubbing experience, a response to our (nova) culture, or what?

[Ashnod]

Perhaps merely that it is recognized that anyone, once intoxicated, is quicker to anger?

[Gerald Haney]

Jager, you're not a big club goer are you? You throw out the clarion call of "come party" and you are going to get a huge variety of folks, including those guys to whom having a good time means that things (and people) are gonna get broken. You have the bouncers on hand to make sure that the "fun" of the few doesn't intrude on the fun of the many. That's all. And bouncers aren't about (or aren't supposed to be about) putting the hurt on the customers. They're about keeping that kind of activity off premises.

And am I comfortable calling over the bouncers? Nope. I never know how some guy is going to take it. And I don't like the idea of it getting violent. Like I said, I'm not a violent guy. Makes me nervous.

[Jager]

Don't get all defensive on me, Gerald. You are the guy making the observations of the nova patrons and having to make the judgement call on when/if some sort of violence has to intrude on an otherwise fun situations.

I go to clubs. I understand that bouncers aren't here to crack heads as much as they are there so that the vast majority don't have their good time ruined by the few that don't socialize well.

As Ashnod pointed out, intoxication lowers one's impulse control. For the usual club situation, that can be bad, but when your patron has the ability to punch large holes in things, the risks go way up. What I am wondering is, with all the novas gathering at places like the Amp Room ... and cutting loose the way we do ... could it be that we are less likely jump to violence than others might think?

[Gerald Haney]

Sorry guy, but I'm not defensive. Just trying to give a good answer. Looks like you already know what I was trying to get across, so why the weird tone?

[Ashnod]

We are no more or less likely to engage in violence than any other social, sentient species, in my opinion. Whether or not we are more or less apt to jump to violence in a social atmosphere depends upon the perception/expectation of the one judging, and the default we are being measured against.

[Preston]

Too violent? No.

Too involved with Global Violence? Yes.

Is there a purpose to it? Yes. The leading cause of nova death is another nova.

A violent subculture? Well, when comments are made about elites not having to be elites; they can be in the XWF instead, I have to wonder.

We all have the ability to chose our own destinies, though the cost will vary. Our power makes it so that both our successes and failures are more likely to be oberved and criticized. Go figure.

We erupt the way we erupt. Holocaust erupted with a terribly destructive power and she chose to build things instead of destroy. It is a matter of personal responsibility and choice.

We are no more a threat than any other rational sentient. Nothing needs to "be done" about us.

[Cryostorm]

So while all you guys are sittin' around here discussin' just how bad violence is; are any of you rememberin' that it's part of that whole 'cycle of life' deal? Does the food chain ring a bell to anyone?

Sure, what I in the XWF do ain't really the same but violence just ain't all that bad. Oh, an' just for the record on this whole deal about purely destructive QEs (or whatever term's in vogue right now). I got myself no less than 4 that got no real use other than destroyin' a person or thing. It's just that simple.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:


Cull, what do you see as the purpose of violence? Can it be both good and bad?
Besides yourself, do you see any other novas making those kind of ecological choices you are making?

Thank you for explaining QE. My QE is not violent. It is just changing. Nothing violent about that.

When I was a young man I was very violent. I hurt animals. Sometimes people. I think I am less violent now. Yes, I do kill, but I do not have that pleasure I used to. I feel happy about what I do, but when I do it I am not laughing. I am not aroused. I am calm. Serene.

That seems less violent to me.

[billy Horrorshow]

I'll keep this simple:

Yes, otherwise I couldn't keep my job. It's stupid, but true.

But it's also kind of like asking: Are people with giant weapons too violent? Are people with flamethrowers too likely to use them as opposed to people without them.

Bro X: Nice to see another XWF guy on the boards. And yeah....if you're built to shoot death rays out of your ass you're not going to use those rays of (ass)death to save puppies or help grandma across the street.

[Walker]

Depending on the nature of the death ray you might be able to use it to clear rubble off of earthquake victims or something. Claws can be used for climbing.

I'm not a big fan of carrying the 'natural order' into culture and society. The natural order is a bit grim and icky for my personal tastes.

[Magus]

Recognizing there is a dynamic to the disparate forces occuring naturally is one thing but sanctifying the so-called natural order and pretending its unchanging is another. Baseline humanity was redefining and redirecting the forces for thousands of years with varying degrees of success. Now novas do the same using quantum enhanced baseline tools and purely nova abilities.

... novas are too violent?

No, not as a rule or in general.

... novas are too involved with global violence?

A question of degrees or is there a more subtle point involved?

... nova violence has a purpose?

In what capacity?

... novas exult a violence subculture, or allow baselines to exult us for being violent?

Some, and yes with a probability approaching unity.

... the majority of novas erupt with violent QEs?

It depends greatly on how you view the matter I would think. Exploration and discovery is rarely a nonviolent or uninvasive process. To those capable of perceiving the energy shifts, redirecting quantum probabilities and energy states isn't a quiet affair no matter how innocuous your QE might seem to those unable to do so.

[Walker]

nova violence has a purpose?

I would like to add the questions:-

-If Nova violence serves Nova purposes is this better than if it serves Baseline purposes?

-If Novas enjoy or otherwise benefit from XWF and being Elites, does this mean that what XWF and Elite stuff count as Nova purposes for violence?

[Sarah 'Pulse' McIntyre]

I could be wrong about this, but as an Elite, I do feel a call to test my quantum expression out under pressure. In the heat of combat, and that kind of thing. Sure, I could use my pulse fields to move everyday crap around the house, but that's so boring. It's exciting to live dangerously. Granted, I don't have any real offense, just really good defense. Just being in heat of the situation is pretty damn addicting, though.

I mean, I erupted with forcefields when a bookshelf accidently fell on me. Wasn't a violent situation if you think of violence as desiring harm to come to another. But what am I supposed to do with forcefields except use them for defense?

It's not like I have a ton of other viable employment options with what I erupted with.

[Apep]

Yes, I suppose I could make cute little stone carvings with my claws and er..teeth. Climbing though, sure I guess so...

My venom though, I am not coming up with any peacable uses for it.

[billy Horrorshow]

Euthanasia, that's the ticket Apep. You're the perfect mountain-climbing sculptor that puts the fatally ill that live at high altitudes out of their misery.

[Xeno]

Apep, has your toxin been chemically analyzed? Perhaps you possess useful biopharmaceutical applications.

...

In addition to those other useful applications that are evident.

...

By which nothing remotely offensive or, indeed, cogent, it seems, is implied.

...

A small, non-violently-obtained sample of your toxin would be a gratifying and debt-inducing gift.

[Edward]

Do we expect the tiger to take up sculpting? Is the bat supposed to become a submarine operator?

I think no.

There is no shame in following our path.

[Xeno]

Bats and tigers are mostly meat doing mostly meat things.

A larger mind is perhaps better employed in other fields.

...

Though minds that do meat things must get more from these things than meat alone, so that is okay. Meat is good.

But in the path of meat, perhaps, try to reflect that your mind is what sets your place in reality. Its ways should not be shunned any more than a bat should shun its wings or a tiger its claws.

Not that anyone present is actively shunning their mind a great deal. It is just something to consider.

Maybe. Some of the time. If it is gratifying.

[Vox Via]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarah 'Pulse' McIntyre:
It's not like I have a ton of other viable employment options with what I erupted with.

Mining and transportation. Those are just two things you could do that would not have to get your hand bloody.

Or you could be a nova who is famous,for the fact that they are novas. You see, you are a nova and that in is enough for you to make a living, if you really do not want to do anything with the abilities you have.

[Juri 'Salamander' McClendon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanguard:

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarah 'Pulse' McIntyre:
It's not like I have a ton of other viable employment options with what I erupted with.

Mining and transportation. Those are just two things you could do that would not have to get your hand bloody.

Or you could be a nova who is famous,for the fact that they are novas. You see, you are a nova and that in is enough for you to make a living, if you really do not want to do anything with the abilities you have.

(stands on soapbox)

And I could have a blossoming career in ironworking, firefighting, or smelting. All of which are BOOOOOOOOOOORING.

Why the hell do you people (and you know who you are fucking career counselors!) always suggest jobs that nobody actually wants to grow up to do as the best, more appropriate means of using our juice?

I control fucking fire for crying out loud, it's part of my fucking life until I die. Do you think I want to spend all my time surrounded by molten metal or burning buildings?

Come up with something a bit more original than the obvious, you fucktards.

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Quote:

Originally posted by Juri 'Salamander' McClendon:


Come up with something a bit more original than the obvious, you fucktards.

Honey, what you do doesn't have to have any fucking thing with what you can do when node-styling. When I erupted if I followed my QE I should have been a fucking refrigerator. Instead I rocked the world. Do what you want and anyone who tries to force your round peg into a round hole you tell them to fuck the living hell right off.

[Vox Via]

Juri, I do not know Pulse. I do not know what her talents are. I do no know her dreams or wants. I know that for the most part, working in a mine for a short time will not leave as deep of scars as being on the front line of battle.

So, Juri you may not wish to wait on anything, others may wish to have only a simple life. They may wish to have a job, in witch they can look at the work they have done and with well earned pride, say this work done with my hands.

[Magus]

This would be what Walker referred to as a thread-jack. I would hasten to point out that I am not the first to go in this direction though I am going to commit the cardinal sin of talking about myself with strangers. Its a not a matter of pride or vanity so much as limiting myself to a subject I know well.

I found work as an elite meant being in zero sum situations. To succeed or win meant someone had to fail and lose. I won't lie and say that I didn't enjoy winning especially at the start of my career. Or that I didn't feel that pride which Vanguard talks about when I took an impossible situation and turned it to my advantage. If I could do it by using my opponents limitations or weaknesses against them then so much the sweeter.

The death and destruction that followed in the wake of the work we did was a weight but I took refuge in knowing there was value to the work, that some of those I beat had no business being in the field and in the professionalism that most of us wore as if it were as tangible as our masks. Eventually I did lose but had the luck of it being to a man to whom success could also be measured in the masks he took.

I suppose it was possible to have come back from that defeat but to be honest I didn't really want to. I had no passion for it. The work had become a job. It wasn't fun anymore. The "collateral damage" had become faces and sometimes names. In time I decided that what I could do wasn't who I was.

[Wakinyan]

Okay so the debate is down to.

We can be violent, it is part of who we are.

We can choose to be above violence.

We can do whatever the hell we want.

Neil has the ability to heal. He does it all the time. Is he wrong to do so? Is giving life as bad as taking it?

[Walker]

Apep Like Xeno I was wondering at the biopharmecutical properties. Well sort of, of course what I was really wondering was whether a suitable Nova could get really, really high off your venom.

Juri I really hope you don't plan on mentioning any of that to the local probation service. If I were you I'd go for the, 'I just wanna make pretty flame sculptures and help out down the steel mill,' approach

Psimon No cardinal sin if what you say helps a fellow Nova

Totem Do you mean - should Neil heal bad people? I think Neil would though perhaps another Nova healer would not. My animal empathy, for want of a better term, leads me to behave one way. Cull's animal empathy leads him to behave another way.

[Jager]

Man, I just love listening to this community.

[Neil Preston]

Quote:

Originally posted by Totem:
Neil has the ability to heal. He does it all the time. Is he wrong to do so? Is giving life as bad as taking it?

Bro, since I buy into the whole "Free Will" thing, I'm good with healing perspective killers. There are times when I have my doubts, but at the end of the day, I do the best I can and hope others will as well.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Apep: Yes, I suppose I could make cute little stone carvings with my claws and er..teeth. Climbing though, sure I guess so...

My venom though, I am not coming up with any peaceable uses for it.

You didn’t erupt as you are now. I strongly suspect you are a product of your own creation, your own decisions.

Cull: There is no shame in following our path.

I disagree. Even paths we are born or erupt onto can be changed.