opnet [OpNet] What is the point of "baseline"?

[Vox Via]

Humans, are many things.They are however rarely stagnate. Humans are always changing,and have done things that were thought to be impossible long before novas were around. The limits of the human mind,and body were always changing and expanding..Yet, they are to some a flat line, as a whole denounces them as simple part of machines with the same built in limits of those not only those around them,but also those who came before them.

No, I do not think humans and novas are the same.But to call or treat something as less than you because it is different has and will lead to more trouble than I care to think of.

[Bastian]

Can it be not so much that they are less, but they we are more?

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Bastian:
Can it be not so much that they are less, but they we are more?

DING DING DING! You got it! About time someone did around here!

[billy Horrorshow]

Still, it's a slur even if it's true.

If any of you have gotten hate mail from M.A.N.S.E. (Mothers Against Nova-oriented Self-Esteem)or some other children-being-sheltered-from-society organization, you know what I mean. "Our children should know that they're special even if they don't have a node."...and some such crap. It's funny but it's kinda sucky for those that don't "win the lottery."

Reminds me of that Hawkins-wheelchair guy. He USED to be a super-genius, back in the day.

[Walker]

I prefer terms like beyond Baseline, posthuman and transhuman, I find terms like superior to Baselines or above human to be too judgemental and emotionally charged to be of much practical use in conversation. Plus the adorable little buggers gave us the Baseline, pun intended, against which we measure our own achievements.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

A baseline is the basic foundation from which we stray.

Food for thought: This term comes up a lot in medicine, and generally speaking, deviating from the baseline is not considered a good thing.

[Vox Via]

But that is my point, no two humans are the same. I look at each of them as people. They do not fit nittly into a mold.

And even if you believe that novas are more than human, that doesn't make them less than unique. So I am not saying that novas are not better or that they are. That is not the point. After all you do not have to paint the last supper to form paint into art.

[Xeno]

It is wondered how long until we see more significant intra-Nova stratification. It is hypothesized that the same mentalities that provided human history with racism will not ultimately limit themselves to the distinction between Nova and Baseline.

If one wishes to elevate oneself above and differentiate oneself from baselines, how much harder is it to elevate oneself above and differentiate oneself from 'lesser Novas'?

[billy Horrorshow]

So Xeno, you don't count the whole Teragen supremacy thing? I'd say that counts at least from THEIR perspective as "intra-Nova stratification".

:hides from the random taint blasts of quantum doom that could ensue:

[Bastian]

Teragen Supremacy thing? Please explain.

[Lee Jones]

Quote:

Originally posted by Xeno:
It is wondered how long until we see more significant intra-Nova stratification. It is hypothesized that the same mentalities that provided human history with racism will not ultimately limit themselves to the distinction between Nova and Baseline.

If one wishes to elevate oneself above and differentiate oneself from baselines, how much harder is it to elevate oneself above and differentiate oneself from 'lesser Novas'?

That's a pretty interesting question. One of my reasons for coming to this site is to gather research material on nova-nova relationships.

I must say, my time here has been enlightening.

[billy Horrorshow]

:shrug:

There's more to it, but I just know that a 100% of the Teragen flagwavers that I bump into tend to have a "Holier-than-thou" attitude concerning Novas who still consider the word Inhuman to be a bad thing.

My point was just that there is "Intra-Nova stratification"...it just depends on which side of the fence you ask.

Didn't really want to get into the Teragen Debate. This argument could apply to Utopians, Elites, QNA, whatever. Just my 2 cents, if even that.

[Xeno]

Yes. Philosophical differentiation among Novas is surely present already.

The phenomenon of organized discrimination by 'Quantum Merit' (outside of basic Baseline vs. Nova issues), development potential, taint manifestation, etc has not yet been seen so much, however (personally). This is somewhat expected to change as Novas become more prolific.

Note that it is not sought to imply that this would be considered a favorable development.

Practical differentiation, though, is still called for. The distinction is between denying Baselines (and atmosphere-dependent Novas) passage on life-support-free lunar jaunts (practical) and, for example, regarding them as sentient art media (impractical).

[Vox Via]

Children play the games,and rules they wish. If they do not like the game, they will change it,and in some cases not change the name.

[Sakurako Hino]

Xeno, What I'm missing, I either adapt, or build around.

[Xeno]

Endeavor, it is believed you speak of a critical matter. "What nature does first, science puts in the living room."

It is carefully hoped that the "steady state" of Quantum-enhanced society (it is not believed we are close to it yet) will find technology bridging the gap between Nova and Baseline. Minds are better close together. It is thought unfortunate that they should be separated by quantum happenstance.

Quantum manipulation is ultimately a physical process, is it not? Humans artificially manipulate physical processes to improve and understand their situation. It is only a matter of time. Maybe.

[Sakurako Hino]

Only a matter of time indeed, Xeno.

Humanity has been working on Unified Theory for a while. Thing is, there are things after that which will help the understanding of what we do.

Of course, it's only a matter of a point of view.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Xeno:
It is wondered how long until we see more significant intra-Nova stratification. It is hypothesized that the same mentalities that provided human history with racism will not ultimately limit themselves to the distinction between Nova and Baseline.

If one wishes to elevate oneself above and differentiate oneself from baselines, how much harder is it to elevate oneself above and differentiate oneself from 'lesser Novas'?

It's already happening. The most vocal example is a certain Terat gravity manipulating Elite who's in the top 10.

[Surya 'Sliver' Narjantan]

If you want to see what happens when novas get together without the interference of baselines, go to Ibiza or Kashmir. One is a party-zone and the other is a war-zone, but there is jack-all difference otherwise. Ask the locals.

[Preston]

Ms. Narjantan, I would disagree on one point. In both places there are baselines present. Is it your opinion that in both cases that the novas don't seem to care? I can only speak for this being the case in Ibiza.

[Surya 'Sliver' Narjantan]

Exactly, Preston. The Elites do not care in Kashmir and the novas are the same in Ibiza.

[Tarot]

Maybe its a case of you see what you look for, Surya. I think there's a difference between a nova that's in your neighborhood to kill and/or rearrange the landscape, and one that's in town to sun, surf and party his ass off.

Then again I live in Ibiza so maybe I'm biased.

[Jager]

Maybe its a case of you only seeing what you want to see, Tarot. If you are ignoring the baselines around you, how would you know how other novas are treating them. After all, you left a place were you were one of only a handful of novas to be in a place were novas come and go all the time.

Social blinders - its the way one ignores beggars, panhandlers, and the homeless. Its how you ignore the probable age of that streetwalker, or how that bum over there looks alot like your second-grade teacher.

Maybe its a case of the glass being half-full of novas, and not half-empty of baselines.

[Vox Via]

And this thread is case and point of nova eggoes. This thread was not started with any interest in the hows,the whys,or whens of what novas can,or will do. This topic was to focus on the term baseline.

We are not baselines,but I do not think that any human is a baseline,either. Now, if the topic boring or bothersome to you, your values,or ego please ignore it. If you wish to talk about novas, you are free to start a new topic,or sink your teeth into one of the countless other threads about said topic.

[Tarot]

Might be Jager, but life isn't usually that conveniently broken down into examples that just happen to support extreme beliefs. Surya is classing a resort/club town with a battlefield. You want to go with this its your call.

Vanguard you can let go of my Eggo now! Get your own breakfast.

[Jager]

Sliver, why don't all those with experience both with combat in Kashmir and clubbing in Ibiza raise their hands?

[Slattern]

You people need to spend more time naked and sweaty.

[kestrel404]

Jeeze, Slattern. You remind me of the phrase, "When all you've got is a hammer..."

Not everything can be cured by sex. There's already quite enough in Ibiza. I'm not sure that anything has ever been cured by indescriminate sex, other than a bad day.

[Walker]

MAKE LOVE NOT WAR

[Timeslip]

It's just a long evolutionary road, with baselines being the steps that were made yesterday and ourselves the steps made today. You don't want to know what I've seen in the steps that will be made tomorrow.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
Not everything can be cured by sex.

Spoken like a man that's never tried it.

Honestly Al, there's three things you should think about when you have a free moment. The first is; how many happy and contented people do you know that suddenly decided they needed to go out and conquor the world?

Two; sex not involving religious ceremonies or the exchange of vows isn't necessarily indescriminate. Yeah, I know that's not what you meant but you did seem to forget you're talking with people that can know more about you than your lover does just by observing you for a minute or two.

Three, and this is a biggie; much of humanities pastimes are nothing more than sublimination of the sex drive. Go back and re-read Sakurako talking about her "first time" with a free oxygen atom and you'll see what I mean. Now if I happen to prefer a little afternoon delight - or early morning wake up service for that matter - to slamming together a few random elements that you are hardly on a first name basis with, I trust you'll cut me a little slack and remember we're not all that different.

Timeslip thanks for not posting spoilers. I like the surprise of not knowing what the day will bring before I even get out of bed.

[Violette 'V' D'Aronique]

Is this the same Timeslip that's part of the Asia/Pacific Auxillary?

[Timeslip]

No, but thank you for the information; I will need to look into this situation.

[kestrel404]

Tarot & Walker: As a counter to both Walker's argument and Tarot's first and third arguments, I will remind you of a rather old tale. Remember Helen of Troy? Well, that form of tragedy hasn't happened on that scale in a while, but it happens in miniature every day. And with Novas that can seduce someone just by looking at them, keep your eyes out for a remake of the Iliad.

As for the all human pursuits being the sublimation of the sex drive: I don't buy it. Curiosity, survival instinct, and sheer stubbornness are strong motivations that have nothing to do with horomones. (Or at least not those in particular.)

And as far as 'indescriminate', I appologize. The term was ill chosen. I will change it to 'incessant'.

[Jager]

The first is; how many happy and contented people do you know that suddenly decided they needed to go out and conquor the world?

So, happy and contented = lots of sex?

Spoken like someone who wants more sex than they are getting.

Now, for sexed-up conquerers I would recommend looking at Napoleon, Alexander, Saladin, and Chandragupta.

[Dreamer]

So life is all about sex,eh? Sex is the only time or way will be at peace? Anything that is pleasurable is either sex or something to replace it?

Jager, do not forget the Cesers,Kings, Popes, Dictators a whole lot of them. Well, just about anyone who had power.

[Jager]

I didn't. Some of them had real sexual malfunctions. I think a little positve sexual experience for a sixteen year old Adolph H. would have done the world a world of good.

Its just that good sex alone will not save us, though disproving that theory could be pretty fun.

[Dreamer]

Would it?Would a sane Hitler been a better or worse thing to let leash upon the world?What if he was the same person without the need to micro manage his empire? Would that war ended the same way? Jager, sometimes it is better to have an insane villain,than a sane one.

And do not forget Adolph, wile a powerful man, was not the only powerful German who was thinking along the same lines.Some were worse.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
So, happy and contented = lots of sex?

Yes. Didn't I make that clear already?



Nah, I understand that some can find happy and contented all on their own but again I claim sublimination of the sex drive. Its encoded into your DNA, hombre, and the meat doesn't forget no matter what the brain is frantically trying to tell it.

On the Caligula thing, I would point out that what they were getting was more after the fact than before. They bought into that vicious cycle of "I succeed ergo I get laid." Once you see sex as a reward or commodity instead of the little death and insight into eternity you're already fucked before you ever get any.

A little decent loving can be a miracle of medicine for the sickly soul.

[billy Horrorshow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
I think a little positve sexual experience for a sixteen year old Adolph H. would have done the world a world of good.

I think you're wrong. Adolf is a great example of why you should always let people into Art school if they want to. He only got into politics because they wouldn't let him continue to paint flowers. I SO wish I was kidding.