opnet [OpNet] The Ashnod/Jager Divergence

[Jager]

So why respond at all, then? That's the point of this thread, and the point of the information that Tarot claims to be gathering. He cares not for where you have been, only where you were raised.

And, if this had been a PM that Tarot had sent to me, it wouldn't have been appropriate for me to either not reply, or tell him I don't want to tell anyone were I was born and raised. But, the missive went out on a open forum.

You are not required to answer. Yet, you did, and it had little or no relevance to the point of the thread.

Says you! Really, isn't up to the individual reader to decide whether or not it has relevance?

Tarot stated earlier that he prefers it when people actually answer the question, or ignore it entirely. It is the deliberate non-answer that becomes the issue here. You chose to participate in this thread after being called out on this in an earlier one, and chose to participate in the exact manner you were called out on.

And? Your point is?

You find my responses unfullfilling because they don't provide the information requested. If you already know so much about the world that you don't want to hear about my experiences, then don't read them.

I can expound upon how this is not actually contributing to the discussion but instead hindering it, if you wish, but I believe you already see that.

Does it occur to you that you have taken it upon itself decide that I'm not contributing? So, you don't like my response. Why do you feel the need to attack what I say. To your knowledge, am I lying about something?

Bottom line: if you do not wish to answer the question at hand, it would have been better to remain silent.

Again, your opinion. I work and operate in a different environment. I like non-seq. ideas and tangents cropping up from time to time, and I encourage open thinking in those around me. Sorry you don't.

The original topic was where were you raised. You answer was to say you have lived in fifty nations and visited far more, thus making you a citizen of the world. In the context of the thread, there seems to be little point to your answer except to say

(We are going to go down this road allot.)

In your opinion, again. You see little point in what I said. Good for you, but please dont' assume that your opinion is all that crucial.

1) Look at me! I have experience and that makes my opinion important!

Sad to think you see it that way. I have an opinion and expressed it. I don't assume my outlook on life and experience is unique or necessarily relevant, but I also feel that knowledge is best when shared.

If one person finds my outlook or experiences useful, I feel that I've done a good thing.

I do not see this as showing off. I'm not in the adhoration business.

2) It does not matter where I was raised! I have deliberately made it so my upbringing does not affection my perceptions by making myself a citizen of the planet! So do not concern yourself with where I am from, just take my word that my upbringing does not apply!

It would be better to say that I don't feel that my upbringing matters TO ME. I don't seem to recall ridiculing where other people were born and/or raised. I don't hold anyone elses background to be less, or more, relevant.

3) I am not going to tell you were I am from, but I will tell you instead where I have lived and where I have been and some nifty facts about what was happening at the time to prove that I was there. This way, I appear more than just a country bumpkin who has never left his home county but yet retain my mysterious aura. In fact, I make that aura more potent by revealing something that seems important but at the same giving away nothing to take away from it.

Wow! That's rich. My post is only relevant if the reader choses to see it that way. I keep secrets, yes. I don't do it to keep up some sort of mysterious aura to impress people with. I do it for my own reasons because its how I chose to live my life.

This seems to offend you.

4) I am actually an incredibly lonely, tortured soul. While I cannot reveal my past, and make a genuine connection, I must say something to remind people that I am relevant, to connect with them if nothing else on a surface level. Woe! Pity! Woooooooooe!

Okay, were did that come from?

Ashnod, I was a private contractor whose work took him around the globe. It allowed/forced me to live in different places.

I am not illicting pity, I make no referance to what emotional I may have been in (though four day old spilt milk in the streets is really, really foul). The fact is I chose that life and most of it was good times (just in case you are worried about me)

Hmmm. I like number four. Moving on.

I wonder why?

Shall I go on?

Well, you do so ... thanks for almost consulting me.

I must confess, dear, that the most logical reasons for you to have posted what you did seem only to draw the spotlight to yourself.

Wow, again. That is such a narrow and limited way of look at me. I think you need to take your logic teacher to task, if this is what you come up with as the most logicial, and not that Gosh, he felt he had something to add.

I am fairly certain you will refute this, even if silently, and eagerly await what you claim as your motivation for posting a non-answer while still desiring to participate in the thread.

To give you something to bite into, my response was motivated by the feeling that I had something to add to the conversation, even though it was a bit off topic. I didn't feel that 'bit' was worthy of such attention. Whoops.

You have not answered the topic's question. One can therefore debate whether or not your answer has any meaningful contribution except for that you have already denied. Perhaps it would have been more meaningful had you created a separate thread asking where we have lived and traveled to. However, you did not, and were instead volunteered yet another evasive non-answer when remaining silent would have been more appropriate.

You may chose to remain silent. I do not. I like holding opnet conversations like this, so I occassionally pop up and add things.

Redirection? Nice try. I expected better. I nitpick only because this behavior was dicussed recently. I had refrained from being such a severe critic of late, as I am certain you had noticed.

Actually, I don't care to dictate your motivations as to why you do and don't post. Maybe your connection was down. Maybe your mountain top was experiencing Sun Spots. I didn't care to investigate and I don't find your opinions to be all that relevant to me.

Shall I use this tactic on you?

Sure thing. Fire away.

Are half-truths, evasion, and the occasional history lecture all you have left to give us, all you have left in the way of meaninful contribution about yourself?

Me oh my. Except for the fact that I have gone on to engender a few relationships started here. I tell people things about myself when I chose, not when it pops up in random topic discussions. I like history, and share what I can when I feel its relevant, or am asked.

A more direct answer would be ... Yes, all I have left to contribute is points of view (that alter according to how the discussion is going - sometimes I play Devil's Advocate), historical data that I feel may be relevant, and evasions about what things when I chose to be evasive.

Does my excercising a freedom of speech and choice bother you so much?

[Ashnod]

*snips out everything that basically is a way of being evasive about the point*

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:

The question is how many of you were raised in American and how many from somewhere else. Along with that, if you were raised somewhere else is there a reason why you don't post more than you do in the forums (making it American by default). I was going to start a poll but that function is disabled here so I guess we're stuck with the usual way.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

I generally consider myself a citizen of the world. The places I've spent the most time in are South Africa and the Phillipines, but I've lived in at least 50 countries.

Admittedly, I have an affection for American culture and society, but I'm partial to governments that only change on a regular basis, strong and stable economies, and not having to worry about angry mobs rioting in the streets.

Last time I was in Paris, both the Sanitation workers and Dairy Farmers went on strike ... and it was early summer, right before vacation. God, the stench.

Last time I was in Genoa, the government changed twice ... going from a Neo-Communist/Social Christian Democrat Coalition to a Ultra-Nationalist/Catholic Farmers Union.

Last time I was in Kinshasa ... well, I just wish the police would not start a confrontation by opening up with heavy machineguns and grenades. I mean, all the people wanted was a little social justice, served up with machettes, of course.

Then:

That is such a narrow and limited way of look at me. I think you need to take your logic teacher to task, if this is what you come up with as the most logicial, and not that Gosh, he felt he had something to add.

Hmm. No, sorry, do not see how this is adding to the topic. Perhaps you could explain how for my moronic logic teacher?

[Jager]

Excuse me? Still stuck on your assumptions about my motivations?

The bold That is such ... is in response to you saying I was trying to put the spotlight on myself. It is moronic logic to assume that was motivation was 'topic grandstanding' when we are posting on a forum were, in one topic, we can go from I am Eating people to save the evnironment to your confession about drinking blood to Whose going to Kill DeathSquad. Topics migrate, Ashnod. It happens. Get used to it.

If you want me to directly answer the question posed by Tarot, you are out of luck.

Anything else?

[Ashnod]

I do not care what your direct answer to Tarot's question would be. You should know that by now. My interest lies in why you gave the answer that was given instead of remaining silent on the matter.

Nothing you have said since convinces me in the slightest that you were simply "contributing." I do not expect this to be a matter of agenda or subterfuge, rather something more personal.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
... why you gave the answer that was given instead of remaining silent on the matter.

Instinct.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
Nothing you have said since convinces me in the slightest that you were simply "contributing."

I just felt like highlighting the above part.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
I do not expect this to be a matter of agenda or subterfuge, rather something more personal.

Something more personal? Such as?

[Ashnod]

Instinct.

Even less convincing than the "contributing" rationale.

[Vox Via]

Ashnod, do you think your words will change what other people think of Jager? Let alone what he thinks of himself?

Jager, one would think that you would be board of playing unmovable object,with those who want to play an unstoppable force. You are not going to make her stop, you are not going to make her change. You are not even going to change yourself.

[Ashnod]

Another series of questions that sound eerily familiar, I wonder why that is...

[Vox Via]

And Ashnod how many times have you two butted heads on this forum?How many times have you or he caused the other to change their ground on any topic? You two are both broken records that are starting to scratch. I know both of your view on life and death,at least on some level so the only thing I have left to say on topics like this is. Why don't you go somewhere far away and don't come back until you know who is in charge.

[Ashnod]

Why yes, that voice definitely does sound familiar. Hmm, intriguing.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Vanguard:
And Ashnod how many times have you two butted heads on this forum?How many times have you or he caused the other to change their ground on any topic? You two are both broken records that are starting to scratch.

I have a theory about that.

The only other couples I have seen who fight like this are either married or divorced.

[Tarot]

I haven't read this thread yet. Just want to be upfront about that. But I know where it started and thought I would share something with you, Jager. You've got a good sense of timing. I'm talking about the China/Opium/Opium Den thing you wrote out a couple of days ago. Prior to that I was deciding whether to change how I deal with your posts.

To explain; there are posts I skip consistently because they're too hard to read (hint; use a spell checker or a decent translator program people), obviously written by a loon without the redeeming grace of being entertaining (yes that's you DeathSquad and Cull) or just because it goes off on a tangent I don't care about. Recently I was thinking of making a fourth catagory of posts that I skip without reading. Yours. Your China post changed my mind at the time but then the "where are you from" thing came up and I thought maybe I should explain to you why I was thinking what I was.

Its not because I don't like you. You seem to be someone that enjoys being a piece of social grit and if that's what gets you off then go with what works for you. No, the reason I was deciding to ignore you was because it was becoming apparent that it was useless to try and interact with you. Not because it was "other than expected", "thought provoking" or "requiring greater levels of thought on a subject I'd rather avoid". Just useless.

You wouldn't answer questions. Oh, you pose question for others to think about and answer but won't answer yourself. I understand from your explanation why you do it but in the long run my reaction was becoming to simply ignore you entirely. I'm not telling you this to dog you out, just to explain. Why should I bother thinking about something you can't be bothered to give the same effort to?"

Prior to your Opium War post it seemed apparent that you don't like answering questions or explaining your views. You don't like to interact. And since your personality and life aren't particularly fascinating to me, adding you to the "posters to be ignored" seemed a good idea. Less time wasted on wasted efforts. Then came Opium War. Wow. Thoughtful. Insightful. Maybe skewed to a western way of thinking but as you never claimed to be a proponent of eastern thought that was okay.

"Damn Chris," I thought, "how could you be so wrong about Jager."

Then came your posts in my thread asking where people were raised. Jager, its just a little information to settle something between me and Doctor Jones. You don't want to share then you don't have to. No ones holding a gun to your head. Citizen of the world? Okay that means non-American and one more to count for my point of view instead of Doctor Jones' assumption. See how easy that is?

Anyway, I just wanted to point out to you that your way of doing business may not be as conducive to your goals as you previously thought. Even if you're right, like Cassandra, it means nothing when no one listens.

[billy Horrorshow]

I love knowing that I can skip posts that start with "I haven't read this thread yet".

I think most of us on the forum have learned that Jager is an international man of Mystery and Ashnod/Continuum Girl rocks the house and is on a constant quest to plague his do-gooding. Or something.

And personally I like the "Eating People to Save the Environment" Idea. I'll have to add it to my "Say NO to stupid Children" campaign.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
... it seemed apparent that you don't like answering questions or explaining your views. You don't like to interact.

Why would my answer or my views be all that important? I ask that people think about their views and answers.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
And since your personality and life aren't particularly fascinating to me, adding you to the "posters to be ignored" seemed a good idea. Less time wasted on wasted efforts.

Now I must hunt you down, pin your eyes open, and duc tape your head to the Screen. You must read my posts! I will not be ignored.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
Then came Opium War. Wow. Thoughtful. Insightful. Maybe skewed to a western way of thinking but as you never claimed to be a proponent of eastern thought that was okay.

Why thank you. I retract my last statement about the whole pinning your eyes open-thing.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
"Damn Chris," I thought, "how could you be so wrong about Jager."

Your not my lover, or even a close personal friend, so get used to not always being sure were I'm coming from. I can be an irritating ass, but I don't make a career of it.

[Jager]

Oh, and Billy ... sorry, but you are too close to the truth. Now you must die.

[Rose 'Moonshadow' O'Meara]

Brahma, Vishnu an' Shiva.

Ye fight like a group of Kilkenney cats.

Glad ye stick tae the boards an' dinnae take it tae somewhere like Kashmir.

Good bunch of me relatives used tae live there. Now they've all moved tae New Delhi an' Mumbai.

[Great Monster C]

Jager-You remind me of one of those purposely semi-gothy little outsiders in high school. You know the ones who read Soldier of Fortune Magazine, talked about the Knights Templar and the secrets of the Masons. Basically the kid who tried oh so very hard to come across as some wordly, mysterious enigma. Purposely dropped little "clues" as to how unknowable he really was.

That's how you come across man. Like you're the same kid but just putting on a bigger act.

And Ashnod? I'm sorry but you remind me of that scary smart girl who had discovered poetry and literature before everyone else and thought that elevated her above everyone else around her. There is this towering sense of detatchement and contempt that seems to permeate everything you do.

And that's just two of you. I don't think anyone here, including myself, is all that healthy.

Maybe it's just a side effect of having a node.

[kestrel404]

GMC: My, that seems horribly fitting. Simplistic, but certainly not bad at all. I'd ask you to try me, but I'm already aware that I'm a stereotype.

Jager: Have you let anyone inside your shell that's still alive? Do you have an anchor, or are you adrift? I don't really expect an answer, not here. Just remember that it's very hard to trust someone that won't trust you back.

Ashnod: I've said my piece. Throwing stones at a wall will do you no good. Flys and vinegar, etc.

Tarot: You have a valid post. A lot of what he writes is misdirection and 'witty banter'. But just often enough to keep me interested, he says something interesting. Many of the posters here are like that. Myself included.

[Walker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
And that's just two of you. I don't think anyone here, including myself, is all that healthy. Maybe it's just a side effect of having a node.

I would say that having an extra structure in the brain might well lead to some strange thinking by Baseline standards. A bit of mental divergence is bound to occur to say nothing of what the scientists like to call quantum backlash disorders.

Super power = super ego?

That would explain the frequency with which Novas fall out amongst each other and their tendency towards thinking themselves above the Baseline rather than just not Baseline.

Personally I dislike some of the bitchiness that goes on around here but that's probably because my supersized ego prefers to prove itself superior to it's own satisfaction in philosophical/scientific debate

[Tarot]

Rose, where do you get a Kilkeny Cat? I don't have allergies to kitties anymore and they are cool little creatures. No, I'm not making fun of you, I really want to get a cat, preferably one that leaves the house lizards alone but I'm sure they'll come to an understanding of some sort.

Well, Jager, your views and answers are important in getting my answers and views. Think of it as a necessary evil that, while not directly serving your immediate goals, still gets you something you appear to want. You no give a little, you no get a little.

Sure I'm your best buddy! I'm the guy that'll drive the submarine and try to remember which way is up after I've finished multiple barrel rolls.

Thanks, Al. I try.

Walker and GMC, there are basically Alejandra people and Chillmeister people. You can listen to both but no matter what, you will always prefer one to the other and look down on people that don't share your preference. Jager is an Alejandra guy while Ashnod is a Chillmeister honey.

Sad but true.

[Walker]

Tarot I know what you mean but then again you can like Alejandra's music and Chillmeister's attitude, true?

And by the way allow me to inflate your Novasized ego still further by thanking you once again for painting two of my forms into your Amproom mural. I found the experience on seeing them like looking into myself, or like you said, it's like painting someone's soul.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
Jager-You remind me of one of those purposely semi-gothy little outsiders in high school.

Well, that's a new one. Semi-Goth, eh?

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
You know the ones who read Soldier of Fortune Magazine,

Yep.

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
talked about the Knights Templar and

Oh, SNAP ... getting closer.

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
the secrets of the Masons.

Scottish Rite or Egyptian?

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
Basically the kid who tried oh so very hard to come across as some wordly, mysterious enigma. Purposely dropped little "clues" as to how unknowable he really was.

So, I'm the semi-new kid, right, drawing out details about my history without giving any definites.

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
That's how you come across man. Like you're the same kid but just putting on a bigger act.

This actually runs along with one of my theories that we are still so much like the people we were (or wished we were) in high school/gymnasium/technical school.

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
And that's just two of you. I don't think anyone here, including myself, is all that healthy.

Maybe it's just a side effect of having a node.

Dude, atleast you haven't just been dumped on by a big, blue Muppet.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
Jager: Have you let anyone inside your shell that's still alive?

Yes. The count is up to three.

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
Do you have an anchor, or are you adrift?

I'm not sure.

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
I don't really expect an answer, not here. Just remember that it's very hard to trust someone that won't trust you back.

I believe in the risk school. I risk for someone and see if they will take risks for me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Life still isn't an exact science for me.

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
A lot of what he writes is misdirection and 'witty banter'. But just often enough to keep me interested, he says something interesting. Many of the posters here are like that. Myself included.

Thanks.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
You no give a little, you no get a little.

I give in different ways, Tarot.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
Sure I'm your best buddy! I'm the guy that'll drive the submarine and try to remember which way is up after I've finished multiple barrel rolls.

Follow my projectile vomitting. It will show you the way.

[Vox Via]

Walker, you have a good head on your shoulder. Just try to remember to practice what you preach.

[Tarot]

Walker thank you very much. Its always a pleasure to work with happy people.

Think of all the stories you'll have to tell your grandchildren, Jager.

"Yes kids, that artist you're studying in school was a friend of grandpa's. It says Tarot in your books but we called him Chris. We made the mistake of letting him pilot the submarine once and that's how grandpa got this scar... and that lump... and..."

"Great artist. Couldn't drive worth a damn."

[kestrel404]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Yes. The count is up to three.

That's more than I expected. Also a much straighter answer.

Quote:

I'm not sure.

I'm a big believer in having something to hold onto, something to keep a man stable and sane. Look for what keeps you here, be it a person, an ideal, or even a memory. If you don't have that, are you sure you're in the right place?

Quote:

Life still isn't an exact science for me.

Never said it should be.

[Jager]

No problem, Alchemist. You have shown me a good deal of respect and trust and I return it.

[Tarot]

Does this make four people then?