opnet [OpNet] And which are you?

[Edward]

Novas fall into three catagories.

1. Those that assist.

Those novas that will help baseline humanity reduce its footprint on this globe and continue on as a species living in harmony with our planet.

2. Those that cull.

These novas slay and kill the excess herd of humanity, thus bringing humanity back into a proper relationship with our planet.

3. Those that hinder.

And they must die.

This is my way of saying hello.

[Xeno]

Some overlap between these categories has been noted. It is speculated with trepidation that the categorization resulting in ego-stimulating violence takes precedence.

Harmony with the planet has wide approval. The planet is well liked.

Hello.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
Novas fall into three catagories.

1. Those that assist.

Those novas that will help baseline humanity reduce its footprint on this globe and continue on as a species living in harmony with our planet.

Isn't that open to some interpretation?

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
2. Those that cull.

These novas slay and kill the excess herd of humanity, thus bringing humanity back into a proper relationship with our planet.

What about culling irresponsible novas? Wouldn't teaching them the errors of their ways be better?

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
3. Those that hinder.

And they must die.


This is my way of saying hello.

Well, hello to you too.
Put me down for a healthy dose of No. 3, Cull.

[kestrel404]

Well, given the options, I fall into the first and third categories. As do most of the novas I've met. And most of the baselines as well.

Cull, if you're going to focus on environmentalism to the exclusion of all else, that's your choice. I for one certainly cannot throw the first stone when it comes to over-specializing. But you should be aware that the world is not black and white.

You can find examples of those purely good and purely evil by nearly any objective morality, but they are the exception, not the rule. Far more often, you find those who do not follow your morality, and have traits of both the good and the bad.

If you truly want to make a difference, it is far more effective to convince the masses that your views are important to them for reasons of their own self interest. Especially in the short term, since most baselines only think in the short term.

Killing them and their protectors will only get you hated, hunted, and killed. Your views will become less popular and be treated as 'environmentalist rhetoric', dismissed without analysis. And your cause will fail, because you could not think past the short term.

Oh, and hello.

[Tarot]

I read this thread and couldn't stop laughing for five minutes.

Hi, Cull. Put me down for plan "D".

[Hugin]

An enviromentalist with an ax to grind.

How quaint.

I am of Those who couldn't care less.

[Damanor]

Welcome aboard, Cull. Watch out for the radical non-environmentalists of the world.

I don't think very many people (nova or baseline) will disagree with you that the environment needs help right now. But I'm not convinced killing humans in large quantities is a good way to go about it.

Here's a related example: For years, the U.S. government tried to stop all forest fires, including those induced by lightning strikes, "for the sake of the environment". Then they realized that their efforts to save the environment only made it worse when the underbrush built up - they couldn't stop the fires that started accidentally, and they were larger, more widespread, and more devastating to the landscape. The fires were an essential part of the way the environment renewed its own resources, and the "best scientific minds of the time" ended up doing more harm than good.

Another example: Project Utopia. They work overtime to clean up the environment, but some scientists think they do too little, and should up their timetable. Others think they're trying to change too much too fast, with a net detriment to the ecology of the earth. Here we have two "scientific" viewpoints that directly contradict each other.

But I'll give you a fair chance to prove your point, Cull. Convince me, rationally and scientifically, that the mass slaughter of humanity is the best way to go about "bringing humanity back into a proper relationship with our planet."

[Typhoon]

While your envoinmentalism in and of itself is appreciated, I cannot condone your assumed methods.

We were all human once, we all flushed one too many toliets in our time, we all took out the trash and added to the area landfill, we have each, no matter who you are, despoiled our home in one form or another, Including you, Cull.

I, like the Alchemist fall into the first and third catagories, but if you're going to attack humanity, 'Cull the herd' as you put it, my suggestion to you is this:

Pick on someone your own size.

I cannot claim that genocide is not part of the natural order, because it is. but if you continue on your course, you will find yourself in an 'Ocean' of trouble.

Pleased to meet you, Cull.

[Conduit]

I think I'm a little of A and C with a dash of I don't care and a teaspoon of cinnamon. Bake at 400 for 25 minutes or until golden brown.

It's good to meet you, Cull. Welcome to the boards.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Welcome aboard, Cull.

What's your view on Utopia's environmental activities?

[Singularity]

Category 1 sounds like one who destroys humanity's alterations to the world.

Category 2 sounds like one who actively kills humans.

Category 3 sounds like one who does not fit into category 1 or 2.

So, you are asking if we are either: a Luddite, an executioner, or neither of the above. An odd question...

[Jager]

Hey Cull, what's your views on nitrate agriculture, genetically modified food crops, land reclaimation, and forced climate change?

Oh yeah. What makes you think you can ...

a) help humanity reduce its footpring on this planet?

{also, does this mean you plan to re-introduce extinct species?}

determine what constitutes an excess?

c) effectively deal with novas that don't see things your way?

[Ghostwriter]

Maybe this should be asked of Cull...

Who died and made you boss?

[Wakinyan]

I like this Node Monkey. I hope we hear more from him. You in Green War Cully? If not you should sign up quick.

Oh look I'm an Injun and a big animal thing I should be all in tune with nature and shit.... Well I am. Most of it tastes like chicken.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
Novas fall into three catagories.

1. Those that assist.

Those novas that will help baseline humanity reduce its footprint on this globe and continue on as a species living in harmony with our planet.

Isn't that open to some interpretation?

No.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
2. Those that cull.

These novas slay and kill the excess herd of humanity, thus bringing humanity back into a proper relationship with our planet.

What about culling irresponsible novas? Wouldn't teaching them the errors of their ways be better?

These are predators. They hunt, they kill. Some do so for 'politics' others for money and others due to some need they feel. All are performing the same function. Whether or not the slain have done anything to deserve being slain is not the issue. Has the doe commited some great offense to the wolf?

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
3. Those that hinder.

And they must die.


This is my way of saying hello.

Well, hello to you too.
Put me down for a healthy dose of No. 3, Cull.

Thank you for making that clear at the onset.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
Well, given the options, I fall into the first and third categories. As do most of the novas I've met. And most of the baselines as well.

Cull, if you're going to focus on environmentalism to the exclusion of all else, that's your choice. I for one certainly cannot throw the first stone when it comes to over-specializing. But you should be aware that the world is not black and white.

No, it is leaf and steel. It is green and gray. It is soil and concrete. It is prairie and parking lot.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
I read this thread and couldn't stop laughing for five minutes.

Hi, Cull. Put me down for plan "D".

For 'Dead'?

I can accept that.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
An enviromentalist with an ax to grind.


How quaint.


I am of Those who couldn't care less.

No axes. Fang and claw.

You are of Those who won't need to care for much longer.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Damanor:
Welcome aboard, Cull. Watch out for the radical non-environmentalists of the world.

I don't think very many people (nova or baseline) will disagree with you that the environment needs help right now. But I'm not convinced killing humans in large quantities is a good way to go about it.

Here's a related example: For years, the U.S. government tried to stop all forest fires, including those induced by lightning strikes, "for the sake of the environment". Then they realized that their efforts to save the environment only made it worse when the underbrush built up - they couldn't stop the fires that started accidentally, and they were larger, more widespread, and more devastating to the landscape. The fires were an essential part of the way the environment renewed its own resources, and the "best scientific minds of the time" ended up doing more harm than good.

Another example: Project Utopia. They work overtime to clean up the environment, but some scientists think they do too little, and should up their timetable. Others think they're trying to change too much too fast, with a net detriment to the ecology of the earth. Here we have two "scientific" viewpoints that directly contradict each other.

But I'll give you a fair chance to prove your point, Cull. Convince me, rationally and scientifically, that the mass slaughter of humanity is the best way to go about "bringing humanity back into a proper relationship with our planet."

Let us use an alteration of your argument regarding forest fires.

Humanity has many predators. Animals. Disease. Old Age. Genetic weaknesses.

Through science humanity has defeated either completely or nearly completely all of these predators. Humanities numbers have reached staggering levels and have overun enormous sections of the globe, pushing out other species and wrecking havoc with the environment.

Death is an essential part of human existence and they have done far too good of a job of beating it back.

It is time for a new predator, one that science cannot so easily counter.

It is time for Novas.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Typhoon:


Pick on someone your own size.

I cannot claim that genocide is not part of the natural order, because it is. but if you continue on your course, you will find yourself in an 'Ocean' of trouble.

Pleased to meet you, Cull.

Genocide? Oh far from it Typhoon. Humanity simply needs a little pruning.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Conduit:
I think I'm a little of A and C with a dash of I don't care and a teaspoon of cinnamon. Bake at 400 for 25 minutes or until golden brown.

It's good to meet you, Cull. Welcome to the boards.

Thank you. I hope to experience much here.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Welcome aboard, Cull.

What's your view on Utopia's environmental activities?

I adore Anteaus' work. I do believe that Utopia would do better to emphasize that area a bit more but since it is light years beyond what any other organization has done I suppose we should be grateful.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Franklin 'Singularity' Alden:
Category 1 sounds like one who destroys humanity's alterations to the world.

Category 2 sounds like one who actively kills humans.

Category 3 sounds like one who does not fit into category 1 or 2.

So, you are asking if we are either: a Luddite, an executioner, or neither of the above. An odd question...

Idiot.


No, I am asking if you are one who makes humanities presence on this globe less harmful to the environment, if you are a check on humanities uncontrolled expansion or if you are a part of the problem.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Hey Cull, what's your views on nitrate agriculture, genetically modified food crops, land reclaimation, and forced climate change?

Oh yeah. What makes you think you can ...
a) help humanity reduce its footpring on this planet?
{also, does this mean you plan to re-introduce extinct species?}
determine what constitutes an excess?
c) effectively deal with novas that don't see things your way?

Why do I suspect you are merely trying to set some sort of "aha!" trap because my answers deviate from what you think they should be?

I am comfortable in my beliefs and actions Jager.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Regan 'Saimhe' McLachlan:
Maybe this should be asked of Cull...

Who died and made you boss?

I died and made me Hunter.

[Edward]

Quote:

Originally posted by Totem:
I like this Node Monkey. I hope we hear more from him. You in Green War Cully? If not you should sign up quick.

Oh look I'm an Injun and a big animal thing I should be all in tune with nature and shit.... Well I am. Most of it tastes like chicken.

I've heard of you. What I've heard I like.

[Long]

Even Predators must eventually fall, the top of the foodchain shall fall prey eventually to the bottom.

[Sakurako Hino]

In other words, the scavengers feeding upon the predator's ruin?

Ironic... but balanced.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
For 'Dead'?I can accept that.

Close but not quite on the canvas, Cull. When you're a hammer the world is stacks of nails. But when you're a brush everything is a blank canvas, pining for the moment of seduction into creation. I'm good with who I am.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
Why do I suspect you are merely trying to set some sort of "aha!" trap because my answers deviate from what you think they should be?

I am comfortable in my beliefs and actions Jager.

Nope.
Like you are doing here, I was making a few assumptions, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt.
In a thirty second ad-blurp, you laid out your belief system for novas and the world. Novas can only be one of three things, which isn't really fair to the complexity of most of our thinking.

Example: I promote the use of organic fertilizers and the adaptation of existing aquaculture to provide new, diverse, and eco-restoring food sources for growing humanity. I also promote space exploration, universal voluntary birth control, and basic environmental awareness at a grade school level. I happen to love this planet and all the living things upon it (as a group - a few individuals I could learn to live without).

Yet, I could not support, or even stand idly by, while someone killed off large segments of humanity, so I must be someone who you would consider a hinderance.

To me, the most important things any sentient species can do is learn and to teach. The Dead do not learn, Cull, thus we have failed as teach them adequately.
Note, teaching is much more than getting people to see your point of view, it is about getting people to think and form their own opinions.
Hell, Salamander and Tarot chap my ass at times, but they are thinking and learning and doing, and that should be enough for any of us.

We are not parents. They are not children.

As for you being a nova-come-Hunter ... No.
You are being very human, with very human ideas, excercised in a very human manner, but with the powers to act out your fantasy of how the world "should be". There is nothing enlightened in that. Its rather juvenile, actually.

"Get in my way and I'll kill you".

"There too many of you, so I'm going to kill a bunch of you until I decided that I've killed enough of you (I'll know when I get there), but no one should take this badly."

"I, alone, know what is best for this planet."
Ignoring the fact that we share this planet with trillions and trillions of other lifeforms.

Congrats. Your an eco-whatever who has been blessed with the power to kill and your not afraid to use it to get YOUR way.
Please stop excusing your actions as what's "good for the planet". Its false and insulting.

[Hugin]

This is going to be fun, isn't it?

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
Novas fall into three catagories.

1. Those that assist.

Those novas that will help baseline humanity reduce its footprint on this globe and continue on as a species living in harmony with our planet.

2. Those that cull.

These novas slay and kill the excess herd of humanity, thus bringing humanity back into a proper relationship with our planet.

3. Those that hinder.

And they must die.


This is my way of saying hello.

Oooooooooh. Scaaaaaaaaary.

I like Tarot's idea, I've never been good at multiple choice so I'm gonna add my own.

I'm 'E' Those that ROCK!!!


hehehehehe.

Man I'm feeling silly.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:
Idiot.


No, I am asking if you are one who makes humanities presence on this globe less harmful to the environment, if you are a check on humanities uncontrolled expansion or if you are a part of the problem.

*yawn* Same arrogant "secret understanding/want to save the world" attitude, different person.

I am with Prodigy: I am one who does not care.

[Damanor]

(First, Cull, you'll probably want to keep your replies to one post at a time, quoting excerpts as you go. It's a little easier for us to understand, and it takes less entries in the thread. Just a recommendation.)

Cull, it seems like all you're suggesting is replacing one universal predator - humanity - with another one that's even more powerful and will have a greater impact on the outside world -certain novas who have a clue about the environment. But you haven't logically or rationally explained why culling the human population is required; you just repeated the same complaints in a slightly different way. (It reminds me of some politicians.)

Humanity is not a disease; it came from the same place that plants and animals and novas came from. We can take all of the humans on this earth and put them in a few areas with the total size of, say, Australia and they could live very comfortably without much environmental impact.

I agree with you that humanity has caused problems, but in the last sixteen years, Novas have reduced the impact of humanity significantly. But (for instance) if we just kill the humans, the Sahara won't fix itself. It will take a different approach.

Right now we're winning the war, not by killing large numbers of environmental criminals, but by making them want to fix the problem, and by making it worthwile where it counts: the profit margin. Make it cheaper to produce products without polluting, and manufacturers won't pollute. (That's why the hypercombustion engine is doing so well.) That's how to solve the problem: convince them to solve it for themselves.

If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. And if you're creative about it, you can make him feed you, too.

[Archon]

Cull,

You talk alot.

but i haven't figured out if you said anything.

Oh and by the way. You can mark me down as C.

I don't like the way you introduce yourself. so allow me to introduce myself. I'm going to be the pain in your ass.

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
This is going to be fun, isn't it?

I think it will be rather sad. But then I have hope.

[Xeno]

The question is one of flexibility, is it not? If Cull's desire to destructively thin has been cooked into its mind by its eruption then the matter is a sad one indeed.

If only its environmental sensibilities have been fused, or its determination remains entirely conscious and willful, then the matter is quite redeemable. Much good can come of such drive, if logic, patience and empathy are employed in due measure.

While Cull's initial standpoint is arguably problematic, it is noted that force (exclusively) in response shares the same trouble (at best, loss of a potential resource, at worst intensification of the target's negative traits). Flaws should be corrected. Violence seems terribly wasteful.

Not that any such intent has been definitively expressed in this matter to date.

(It is urged that the likely impracticality and naivety of this conjecture be conceded. It is.)

[Tarot]

Aggression A allow me to introduce you to Aggression B. Of course you two are nothing alike.

Different day, same shit.

[Ghostwriter]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cull:

Quote:

Originally posted by Franklin 'Singularity' Alden:
Category 1 sounds like one who destroys humanity's alterations to the world.

Category 2 sounds like one who actively kills humans.

Category 3 sounds like one who does not fit into category 1 or 2.

So, you are asking if we are either: a Luddite, an executioner, or neither of the above. An odd question...

Idiot.


No, I am asking if you are one who makes humanities presence on this globe less harmful to the environment, if you are a check on humanities (sp) uncontrolled expansion or if you are a part of the problem.

Fuck you, you little treehugging shit.

No one insults my mate and gets away with it.

I'm a Taint-buttered autistic. What's your excuse?

[Archon]

um....

Regan...i think it's Stupidity.

while i think that the environment is important and should not be mindlessly abused.

the people who think "Animals have more rights than us" (excuse the exaggeration) are simply born without A) free will, or creative thought.

they act as programmed drones and personally i think it's kinda pathetic.

if i'm hungry, and i see a cow, i'm gonna eat a cow. and i'm gonna use wood from a tree to cook it. and then when i'm finished eating my cow, i'm gonna entertain myself using devices created from non-biodegradable, yet recyclable plastics. Just because i can.