Aberrant RPG - How tough is DeVries?

[Jager]

I got to make this quick.

How tough is DeVries both in your perceptions of it here on our common board and in any games you are running?

Also, how personable are they versus how much are they a corporate empire?

What, if anything will DeVries not do? Who won't they work with?

How much does the Teragen oppose them? In one of the books, Orzaiz is applauding a former Elite who dies attacking DeVries corporate offices in New York and in the Elites book, Anna DeVries is trying to stop Teragen attacks on DeVries facilities. Yet, Epoch is a major Terat and an Elite.

What about their relationship with Utopia? Could Utopia actually put down a 'rogue' DeVries organization? Could DeVries destroy Utopia?

Are there any other Elite organizations that you have created or come up with and how do they get along with DeVries?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I think that 2-to-1 rule says a lot.

DeVries is almost impossibly tough, up to a point, then they get real weak. For dealing with any one nova/threat/mission/etc, DeVries can come up with a nova somewhere in the world who has sometimes done temp work with them and bango. Superman has to deal with Mr. Kryponite.

But when you start talking about DeVries, as a whole, dealing with PU, as a whole, it gets a lot less clear. DeVries is a massive temp help agency. Many of their own agents (including Totentaz) would hire on to destroy it if the money were right.

The problem with that happening is that there are a lot of people & agencies that really need something like DeVries around. That specifically includes both the Directive and Project Pro.

Unlike most or all of the other players in the game of international pollitics, DeVries' agenda is "workable", as in "I understand it and it isn't threating to me".

[Sakurako Hino]

DeVries is about as close to a hornet's nest as you can get. Wrile it up, and you're going to get stung, BADLY. If anyone was stupid enough to go face to face with DeVries person-power, at first it'd seem they'd have the advantage, then DeVries calls up it's other "agents". Sooner or later DeVries has a numbers advantage, and you're knocked out of the box in due time. There's no corporation out there that can top them. I don't care how many connections to Utopia, or the Yaks, or to the Z-C mob you got. Old Anna is going to find you, and she'll take care of you, according to how much of a threat she believes you are when you started attacking her. And this includes unconventional means. I bet DeVries likes even less if you hit their pocket books. Punch 'em in the face, and yeah, they might go somewhat easy on you. But the minute you start hitting them financially as well, you might as well pack it up and run for mommy. 'cause you're about to get owned.

[Fortune's Son]

Long response here. Sorry but some of the questions have complex ramifications.

How tough are they here on the board and in the games?

Very. The real difference here on the boards is that we have non-NPC characters that will provide an interpreted view of the their world. For instance, to some degree, they'll espouse what a badass Totentanz is when as players we can dream up half a dozen ways to ace old skull face and wonder why characters never thought of it.

Also, how personable are they versus how much are they a corporate empire?

They as in the company or they as in Anna DeVries? Fortune once compared Annie DeVries to a merchant prince of Italy. I count that as one of my better insights. How personable is the president, Ashnod, Jager or Vile Bill? Doesn't it depends on the situation and whether we're talking about a personal situation or one in an official capacity?

One of my favorite characters on the board was Bungee, if you remember her. Supposedly Geryon's daughter and the beauty of her interaction was that she made us see some Terats in a completely different light. "Unca Leviathan" gave her a squid doll she loved, Geryon put a bandaid on her skinned knee and Prodigy made her a remarklable toy to cheer her up. Similarly I can see Anna DeVries conducting a complex campaign to force the release of one of her's from Bahrain. Or letting them rot in a hellhole because they screwed over the company, her kingdom. In either case I can still picture her smilingly singing her baby to sleep while waiting on the casualty reports to come in.

As a player, and for a similar reason, I wanted to write a story with Endeavor about a team of Elites being dispatched to Japan in response to her story of three self-proclaimed "elites" having killed Endeavor's little sister Mizuko. The idea behind it was that there are some unstated rules and that by killing a latent nova child in those circumstances while claiming to be elite they had broken them. Mom, Dad and Endeavor are one thing but but killing Mizuko? Bad career decision.

Unfortunately, I got busy and there were some canon considerations so the story never saw print. The point is that the thought of doing something like this would occur to people. The question is would they be willing to go through with it inspite of the heat that would come down. Or would it simply be an idle thought.

Mileage varies.

There is also the problem of the minions sometimes exercising bad judgements in regards to deciding what the Queen wants. That's where a handler resist giving an Elite a very expensive weapon to save the company money but misses the ramifications of the bigger picture.

How much does the Teragen oppose them?

When viewed as a group? I think greatly. Your example is of a Terat attacking a corporate office, something Orzaiz may have been opposed to or not consulted on, but after the fact he's doing his job. Damage control. There is a similar scene with Pax writing Slagg's parents elsewhere.

In a recent discussion with another player here I forwarded the idea that much of the Terats posturing concerning Elites is just that - posturing. Rhetoric. But if you strip away everything else the facts are (as general statements);

• Elites are willing to kill novas for nothing other than money.
• Elites are willing to kill Terats for nothing other than money.
• Elites would try to wipe the Teragen from the face of the planet for nothing other than money.

As groups I can't see them ever completely reconciling. As ~individuals~ belonging to those two groups... There's where Epoch and Shrapnel come in. That's also part of what makes the Jilly 'n Jack stories so much fun to write. A Harvester among Elites? An Elite among Harvesters? Ties, loyalties, friendshops and favors among two "families"? Forget Romeo and Juliet! This is something I hope to examine in future stories.

What about their relationship with Utopia?

The day-to-day relationship to Utopia is difficult mostly because the two organizations are too similar and compete for the same resources.

Asking if Utopia could put down DeVries is like asking if the Justice League could beat the United States. For them to even go at it would require major assumptions to begin with as they are not simply opposing groups. Rather they have their agendas and any actions taken along these lines are going to have major ramifications.

Why doesn't Divis Mal simply cause a plasma jet at ground zero in Addis Abba? Why doesn't Proteus just plant a fusion bomb in the two main DeVries facilities. Why doesn't the United States do what we so obviously want to do in Iraq? Ramifications and consequences.

Are there any other Elite organizations that you have created or come up with and how do they get along with DeVries?

One. It was a small agency willing to take almost any job and had a handful of novas on staff including Jack Chance. After four months they were bought out by DeVries to eliminate a competitor and to acquire their novas. Thats an element in the complex relationship (read: animosity) between Fortune and Carrington.

Fortune didn't "join the army" or want to work for DVNTS though he would have been willing to work for the DeVries Group. On the flip side, DeVries lawyers didn't read the individual contracts before they bought out the company and didn't realize Fortune had some unusual clauses in his.

Did I miss anything?

[Vile Bill]

How tough is DeVries both in your perceptions of it here on our common board and in any games you are running?

Fairly tough. One of the singular largest employers of novas in the world. Both on the board in a campaign I will be runnning. However, a large percentage of those "employees" are not permenently contracted to DeVryes, but rather part time subcontractors.

Also, how personable are they versus how much are they a corporate empire?

Depends on where you sit. If you are a first time client, a touch of both. First, they want to charm you, but they also want to impress upon you that they are a large, professional organization and that handing them large chunks of cash is not foolish. If you are a longtime client, probably more of the first and less of the second. You are a part of the DeVryes' 'family' of clients and are treated as such. Don't fail to make a payment though.

If you're an outside organization, business all the way. Either they are dealing with you as a subcontractor or a competitor and then they want you to know exactly who is boss.

If you are a potential recruit, again, back to the half/half idea. They want you to feel wanted and welcome, but also secure in their power. A longtime employee, it depends on your status. With Jack Chance, they probably try to pull out the monolithic organization feel more often in order to make him feel intimidated (Hah!). With Vile Bill they probably try to make him feel like family, he's a good worker and a good soldier.

What, if anything will DeVries not do? Who won't they work with?

Hmmm, that's a toughie. I do think they would edge away from outright criminal enterprises for the most part. One of their massive strengths is legal precedent and their contracts. Stepping over the line too far could jeapordize their reputation and their ability to keep clean in the courts.

How much does the Teragen oppose them? In one of the books, Orzaiz is applauding a former Elite who dies attacking DeVries corporate offices in New York and in the Elites book, Anna DeVries is trying to stop Teragen attacks on DeVries facilities. Yet, Epoch is a major Terat and an Elite.

In my game there are two majore schools of thought about this in the Teragen. First one believes that yes, Elites are whores who prey on other Novas and are deeply entrenched in baseline thought. The second though see's Elites as being the most likely group to start seperating themselves from baselines as a group. The Elite culture, the esprit de corp that states that everyone else is something less is a short hop from some aspects of Teras. In my game the concept of demasking will be a bit more popular and encouraged by those Elites with Terat leanings. The belief would be that there is no reason to kill another nova just to make some baseline happy, that simply beating him and still achieving the objective is plenty.

What about their relationship with Utopia? Could Utopia actually put down a 'rogue' DeVries organization? Could DeVries destroy Utopia?

Pretty bad, mostly because they are competition. DeVrye's offers baseline governments an access to novas on their own terms without having to bow and scrape to Utopia. Not just Elite warriors either, but the nova scientists, and other operatives who work for DeVryes.

As for destroying Utopia, I don't know. I really wouldn't want to make a case for either side.

Are there any other Elite organizations that you have created or come up with and how do they get along with DeVries?

I do have one in mind right now. Spartan Negotiations. Pretty bad relationship. Spartan is nearly outlaw and is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with Elite firms.

[Liam VanGilder]

What occured to about DeVries is, how much can you talk about it as unified organisation? Anna herself does indeed have Terat leanings and some strong views on other matter, like nova children. However, the Elites that work for her are a very mixed bunch. For every Elite that is loyal to the brotherhood there will be one to whom it's just another job and one who is a greedy mercenary whose only standards are set by his pay scale.

If something were to happen to cause the agency as a whole to act together they would likely be nigh on unstoppable. Bear in mind that many members of Project Utopia and T2M are chosen as much for their photogenic and ideological characteristics as for their raw power. Meanwhile, DeVries' Elites have more experience of quantum conflict and nova vs. nova than anyone else out there. But most of the Elites will have loyalties to their own countries, political parties and personal friend.

Unless the leadership of DeVries was to make a concerted effort to place loyalty and cohesion amongst the ranks above profit, as well as some kind of outside threat or stimulus were to come into play then the vast majority of DeVries novas wouldn't step up for a cause. They would stick to their contract and maybe switch employers if politics started to bite into their paychecks and extravagant lifestyles.

However, if everything did come together then I have difficulty imagining any force that could resists a two hundred strong nova army, led by Totetantz, Pursuer and Lotus Infinte, equipped by Rachel Alinsky.

[Jordan]

The QNA could concievably do it. In the APG, the Queer Nova Alliance is stated as being the the organization with the largest number of Nova members. They also come from all walks of life; Utopia, the Teregen, Elite and XWF culture, the entertainment industry, even otherwise indipendent Novas. While I highly doubt the QNA could muster enough support from its members to make a concentrated attack on any other organization, if any group (DeVries included) were to wage war on the Homosexual community, the level of support and firepower at the disposal of the QNA would be simply staggering.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordan Rossi:
The QNA could concievably do it. In the APG, the Queer Nova Alliance is stated as being the the organization with the largest number of Nova members. They also come from all walks of life; Utopia, the Teregen, Elite and XWF culture, the entertainment industry, even otherwise indipendent Novas. While I highly doubt the QNA could muster enough support from its members to make a concentrated attack on any other organization, if any group (DeVries included) were to wage war on the Homosexual community, the level of support and firepower at the disposal of the QNA would be simply staggering.

That's a rather specific situation, and you also have to remember that the members of the QNA have loyalties to other groups. The only situation I can see them uniting in is a unified attack on the gay/lesbian/transgender community, and the likelihood of any Nova organization actually doing that is almost nil.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I think QNA-wise, the developers forgot that many gay novas would stay in the closet (i.e. there is an element of wishful thinking).

I mean sure, run the numbers and they have more people than there are active members of the Republican party. But that doesn't change the world from being what it is. Having 0.1 or 0.2 % of the population errupt at random and I'm not convinced anything would change.

[Jordan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
That's a rather specific situation, and you also have to remember that the members of the QNA have loyalties to other groups. The only situation I can see them uniting in is a unified attack on the homosexual community, and the likelihood of any Nova organization actually doing that is almost nil.

Yes, it is very specific but I believe, in my own way I said just that. I also realize that the likelihood of an organization like Devries (or even Proteus) declaring war on gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgendered community is next to nil. We are simply talking theoretics here so I though I'd throw it out just for fun.

Quote:

originally posted by David "Dr. Troll" Smith:
I think QNA-wise, the developers forgot that many gay novas would stay in the closet (i.e. there is an element of wishful thinking).
I mean sure, run the numbers and they have more people than there are active members of the Republican party. But that doesn't change the world from being what it is. Having 0.1 or 0.2 % of the population errupt at random and I'm not convinced anything would change.

How well do you know the gay community in your area? What experiences are you basing your opinion on? And just which closet are we talking about?

Lets see, if we were to use the theoretical standard of 1 in 10 people in the world being gay in refrence to the Nova community and lets say for argument's sake that Novas number exactly 10,000, then you would have 1,000 homosexual Novas in the world. Say 25% of those Novas are members of the QNA. That is 250 members. How many Novas would you estimate Devries has working for them on a full time basis? How about Utopia? How many of those are also members of the QNA and where does their ultimate loyalty lie?

Remember, I'm no mathmatician so I don't know if the numbers would actually look this way, but think about this; I went to Toronto's Gay Pride parade about 5 years ago and the estimated number in attendance that year was 250,000 people, the majority of which were Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered. That number growing from between 50,000 to 100,000 people in attendance each year. As for being in or out of the closet, that is a completely subjective term. I know some people who are publicly active in the community yet have never "come out" to their own familty! In essence, every time you tell someone your gay, you come out of a subjective closet.

Oh, as a side note, Jordan is not a member of the QNA and refuses to have an relations with the organization. Long story.

[Condomble]

Quote:

..the developers forgot that many gay novas would stay in the closet..

Would you stay in the closet?

With the power of a god and international mega-giants like PU and DEVRIES courting you regardless of your power levels would you stay in the closet? With the most homophobic of recruiters and executives for the US nova programs willing to smile and shake your hand on national television would you (could you) really resist the urge to disclose this aspect of your life?

Would some continue to hide it? Maybe. Would many?

The world loves them.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

My problem is with the idea that the QNA has the largest number of novas. I understand where the reasoning comes from. 10K Novas. 10% of them are gay (1,000), half of those join, and then you have 500 novas.

At first glance, wow, that is a big number. But let's take a closer look. 40% of novas come from China or India. Something like half of those have the India syndrome, are hiding their novadom, or are stuck working for the government. Now the QNA has to get 63% to join. There are lots of others we can also subtract; novas who live in repressive countries, are poor, in hiding, members of the Directive, members of project Pro, etc. Pretty quick you have the QNA having to recruit more than 100% of gay novas. Then on top of that you have apolitical novas and/or ones who are in the closet (either closet).

Basically, I don't really expect the world to change a whole lot. To repeat a (French?) saying, "The more things change, the more they remain the same." Societal pressures will remain the same. The personal choices of individuals on whether or not to enter politics will probably also remain the same. Actually, considering the amounts of money involved, societal pressures will probably be greater for novas. Most of the really big money is in product endorsement. (Or for an example from the books, Venus from the gray box in AB:Elites).

For a good idea on the QNAs comparative size, I think that you need to look at RL, and see how many people show up for marches and such. Then divide that number by the total population.

(say, if this continues, we really should move it to another thread)

[Condomble]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Or for an example from the books, Venus from the gray box in AB:Elites.

True but Venus is part of a team whose single goal is to make money. For each Venus is there not an Andy "Ironskin" Vance? Or Rangorockette?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hu Ching:
True but Venus is part of a team whose single goal is to make money. For each Venus is there not an Andy "Ironskin" Vance? Or Rangorockette?

Judging from RL; No, there isn't. For every Andy there are five Venus (what is the plural of "Venus"?)

Put another way, Venus would still be able to earn lots of money if she were out. But she can earn much more if she stays in. For that matter, the team can earn more if she stays in.