kestrel404 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Lemmy Chillmeister: Quote:Originally posted by Alchemist: Lemmy, if we can be gods, why can't we be superheroes? That's like telling Bobby Baseline that he can be a banker, a senator or a rock star but hey, why not be a fucking retard instead.It's called aiming low ya spaz.Ah, so being a hero is not a lofty enough goal. Choosing to be Hercules, rather than Zeus, is not good enough. I'm not buying that. From my point of view, Hercules is by far the better role model for novas to follow. You speak of being gods or spirits or elementals. How many spirits do you know with human parents? How many elementals grow up surrounded by normal people? How many gods live among mortals, unaware of their potential?How is being a superhero (defined here as a hero with extraordinary abilities, such as being a nova) less than what you are and do? Is being a musician any better or worse than dedicating yourself to the betterment of the society you live in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Alchemist:Ah, so being a hero is not a lofty enough goal. Choosing to be Hercules, rather than Zeus, is not good enough. I'm not buying that. From my point of view, Hercules is by far the better role model for novas to follow.Neither were role models, and both were brutes. Hercules meant well but failed utterly in execution. Zeus was pointless waste, all of the power and none of the responsibility, tact, charm or restraint. Give me the Nordic pantheon any day.Quote:You speak of being gods or spirits or elementals. How many spirits do you know with human parents? How many elementals grow up surrounded by normal people? How many gods live among mortals, unaware of their potential?Counterpoint, Alchemist;How many gods, spirits and elementals do you know?Quote:How is being a superhero (defined here as a hero with extraordinary abilities, such as being a nova) less than what you are and do? Is being a musician any better or worse than dedicating yourself to the betterment of the society you live in? While not a view I necessarily endorse, I believe the problem encountered with this difference is that one is a role of servant, the other that of patron. As much as I freely confess that I view novas as unabashedly superior to baselines, I acknowledge that it is the fate of some to serve. There is nothing wrong with that. What is dangerous, however, is the propogation of the lie that it is not our right, but our duty to serve. Servitude is a choice, and it is a choice that due to propaganda and cultural knuckle-dragging, far too many novas are eager to opt for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kestrel404 Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by ronin:Give me the Nordic pantheon any day.Unfortunately, the best examples of heroes in that pantheon are mortals (Sigurd and Beowolf).Quote:How many gods, spirits and elementals do you know?Several people here have claimed to be gods, spirits and elementals. Most of them have human parents, grew up in baseline society, and erupted after puberty. I won't claim all of them because I'm sure one or two would them pipe up and claim themselves as the exception to this.I also know OF several pantheons worth of gods. The Norse gods have very vague ancestry, but most legends place them as non-human from the very beginning (they are descended from giants and elves and dwarves, but not humans). The Greek and Roman pantheons are similarly descended from non-humans.The eastern pantheons are actually mostly descended from human stock, with some divine blood mixed in, but they are all raised as gods from early youth.Elementals and spirits from the more animistic religions are completely inhuman creatures, but their origins are generally not explained. Only in the westerized though do figures like Jack Frost (ice elemental) and the Grim Reaper (spirit of death) become anthropomorphized.Quote:I believe the problem encountered with this difference is that one is a role of servant, the other that of patron.Now here's the conundrum. Which is which? Is the musician a Patron, passing out music freely without need for compensation, or is he a Servant, creating music because of his need for money, recognition, the joy of creation?Is the hero a Servant, bound to the will of the people and doing as they wish, or is he a Patron donating his time to those he cares for and the betterment of himself?I'll admit that these questions are leading, but that does not mean that either one can't fit either role.And yes, the Utopian viewpoint that we have a duty to volunteer our services is both absurd and insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 HAHAHA!!! Alchemist, you ridiculous bastard!! Of course legends state that the gods were of divine descent!! If you wanted to convince a large group of mortals that you were a god and wanted them to believe you, would you tell them that you were born of the sun, or that you were born of James and Martha Winkler? We are gods also, those who would reach forth and claim their destiny! The boy I was may have had human parents, but that is NOT how history will remember me!That much, I promise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Stewart: TAG Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 An opnet connection and boredom is a terrible combination. 1. Here's some trivia about gods. Vikings were a warring people, Tyre was the god of war but Thor was the favorite and called the friend of man. He was a little thick, stronger than anyone has a right to be and a party animal. What does that tell you?2. You answered your own question about superheroes Alchemist. In the days before there were novas when story counted for more than hype superheroes were a metaphor for what a man or a woman could do if they had the will to make a difference. Superheroes are about inspiration and making choices. The power to make a choice is the extraordinary part, not whether they could leap tall buildings in a single bound or shoot bolts of fire from their hands.We can't be superheroes because superheroes are defined inspite of the powers not because of them.3. Talking about the ancestory of gods and things is like asking whether the chicken came first or the egg. Something made gods, gods made people and that's the way the story usually goes so we're all related by blood. What's the point of arguing who came first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Preston Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Fenrir: If you wanted to convince a large group of mortals that you were a god and wanted them to believe you, would you tell them that you were born of the sun, or that you were born of James and Martha Winkler? At least I don't have that problem, seeing as my Dad is a nova, too."I am Neil Man-Friend, son of Preston the FarSeer! I come in Peace." How does that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Heroes you say?You say a hero should be a good person,and use a Greek hero to prove your point. The Greek word for hero, is so far removed from the modern day use of it, that they may as well be used as different words. Divis Mal is just as much a hero,as Thorn,Splash or Pax.We are heroes,at least by the first meaning of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwriter Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 We all have the spark of the divine in us, Alchemist, be we plant, animal, baseline or nova. I personally believe that we reincarnate until we have learnt what we need to know, and then we become divine.Have I reached that stage by being a nova? Perhaps, perhaps not. But in ancient times, they would call me Sarasvati, Minerva or Metis.Novas are ideas and symbols just like the ancient gods were, and only a fool would forget that. We are primal elemental forces made flesh by the influences on our being. So yes, mortals made us in that sense.And in all of the ancient stories, gods needed humans and humans needed gods. Tells you something, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singularity Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Regan 'Saimhe' McLachlan:I personally believe that we reincarnate until we have learnt what we need to know, and then we become divine.I thought you already are divine? Hmm... I would much rather understand myself completely before I consider godhood. From one angle, labels are meaningless if you do not know who you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackStar Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Yes, but in those stories the gods had too human passions. And I think we, novas have the same problem. If we are not human then why we continue feeling anger, hatred, compassion, lust, happiness, love, etc... All those emotions are very human to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwriter Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Probably because we are a sub-species of humanity, if not entirely human anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackStar Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I could accept that. But then we aren´t gods, elementals or forces of nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwriter Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 *chuckle*In the Eastern religions, gods were often once mortal, or raised by mortals. Scientifically, we are a sub-species of humanity. In reality, we are much more than a set of Latin words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackStar Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Regan 'Saimhe' McLachlan:In reality, we are much more than a set of Latin words. And so is humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakurako Hino Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 And so is everything from the first single-celled organism born billions of years ago.Novakind may not like it, but our Human parents are part of the Terran family tree as our direct ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackStar Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Miss Hino, I don´t have any problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakurako Hino Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 No, but there are some Novas who cannot stand the fact they're even of any relation to Humankind.The first step in accepting who you are is finding where you came from.I'm glad you haven't taken that slippery slope, Blackstar. There's hope for you yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singularity Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Regan 'Saimhe' McLachlan:In reality, we are much more than a set of Latin words.I know a certain ex-boss who does not seem to understand that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Neil Preston:At least I don't have that problem, seeing as my Dad is a nova, too."I am Neil Man-Friend, son of Preston the FarSeer! I come in Peace." How does that sound? Appropriate, noble, and no less than you deserve, Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmy Chillmeister Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I am the Walking Blizzard, son of no man, son of my own plan. I am the spirit of frozen nights and icy dreams. When I sing hearts stop and tears drop. Shiver as I walk by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Very poetic, Lemmy. Also very appropriate. I think it suits you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakurako Hino Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I just perefer; Hello, I'm Endeavor. What's up?What's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Yeah, I prefer the simple "Hello" as well. I usually don't feel the need to announce myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Stewart: TAG Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 My usual is along the lines of, "Hey, I'm Tag! How can I help?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackStar Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Endeavor:I'm glad you haven't taken that slippery slope, Blackstar. There's hope for you yet. All of us have our own demons, miss Hino. But I hope I would never slip in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Preston Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 "Here I come to save the DAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!"Who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakurako Hino Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 "In the name of the server, I shall debug you!"Just topped ya, Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kestrel404 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 "We can't be superheroes because superheroes are defined inspite of the powers not because of them."-TagWhy can't we be superheroes, then? By your own argument, if it is something defined in spite of having powers, then what prevents one of us from being a superhero?"We are heroes,at least by the first meaning of the word."-DreamerI took that into considderation when I started this discussion. I meant hero by the modern definition, that of someone who helps others despite extreme circumstances. Many of us the people you named fit that definition as well. But the idea of a superhero is a bit more pure, since there have been many heros in human history and very few superheros which were not purely fictional.Oh, and if we're choosing fancy titles here, mine would probably be: "Alchemist, student of matter and change" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Preston Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Quote:Originally posted by Alchemist:Oh, and if we're choosing fancy titles here, mine would probably be: "Alchemist, student of matter and change" Nice one, Alchemist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 One little note I have to add, why do we need anything that is devine? Would the world be any better or worse if what you see is what you get.If we are nothing but the outcome of a great big "mistake", that the world around us is nothing but mater,and energy forming and reforming it's shapes, sizes and forms? Would the world have an less wonder if there was nothing laying in wait plaining out the out come?Do we need a "God" because we wish to blame our problems on something and be free of guilt?Do we need one because we are so angry with our lives, that we need a mystical place to go to when we die? Further more if we have a "God", then why would we have the need to grasp at the vain idea of free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakurako Hino Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dreamer, I've seen God. If only for a split moment in time measured in the width of an Atom.This Universe could not have been made without intelligent design.Of course, the God I believe in is far different from the one others believe in.And unlike what Einstein said, God does play dice with the universe. For if he didn't, life would be much more boring. Nor would he have created life, which is so chaotic in the first place.Laugh at me if you will, but in the end, that's what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamer Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 If you think I am saying there is no God, you are wrong.I am asking people to ask themselves what if there was no "God". I ask people to look into their faith, and lives,and ask why. Wile Einstein was wise, he should not be taken as the soul source of wisdom in the world.His words should not be taken as the holy truth.He was just a man, and did make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakurako Hino Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Pshaw. I was just using Einstein's famous quote. Nothing more.I have, let's say, reached the goal Einstein was striving for. But, I do not feel that I should send it to my colleagues in science nor to the world for the danger it poses.Unified Theory. in my opinion, is God's operating system and should not be hacked for ill gain.At least, untill Novakind and Humankind realizes the gravity of knowing such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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