opnet [OpNet] Juri "Salamander" McClendon Defense Fund

[Preston]

I am starting up the Juri McClendon Defense Fund. It is a legal fund being set up to defend nova rights in Washington DC. It seems there is an undercurrent of political pressure to attack the accepted practice that protects novas from prosecution for events surrounding their eruptions.

I think it would be a terrible crime for us to sit back and allow the newly erupted to be saddled with litigation right at the point they are rediscovering their lives.

Please consider helping out as best you can.

[Wakinyan]

Of course I am in. How is the best method of contribution?

[Jager]

Count me in. I will see what I can free up.

[Access]

If you'd like I can see if I can get a few of my crew together and get this to the top of the Opnet search engines in a matter of minutes. I can contribute very little financially though and I don't make many public appearances. My eruption was very calm, but I know not everybody had that luxury and I don't think we should be held completely liable for things out of our control.

[Preston]

Well, there is always money, but you could also mention it at any public appearances, talk it over with other novas you meet, and personally kick in some time for future events.

Right now, the Fund is in its infancy. We don't even know if Ms. McClendon will allow us to use her name yet, though we have filed a Notice of Intent with her. Otherwise, it will be named the Nova Eruption Defense Fund (NEDFu).

Just being aware that the rights of the newly erupted are endangered is a good start.

[Miss Baby]

I do say Preston, you go far to throw away the law when it disagrees with you. Novas should be held to the same legal rights and privileges as anyone else. If a baseline knowingly tries to become a nova in a violent way, they are commenting a crime. The results of their eruptions no mater how bloody,or damaging was caused by their own actions.

By the way you still charge someone for murder,if they shot a gun in the air,and it results in the death of person.

[Ulysses Bailey]

I'll be more than happy to add my contribution as a pro bono counsel for the Fund. Captain Preston, please forward the relevant information to my office when you have it ready. My staff will send you the itemized invoice for my standard services so you can list the average monetary total as my donation to the fund.

And Ghetto Funk Baby - if you wish to bring action against the Fund, I can't wait to see you in court.

[Preston]

How so, Ms. Baby? I am using perfectly legal means to defend the civil rights of the newly erupted. You wish to infringe upon established legal presedence.

[Miss Baby]

Yes mister Bailey, prefectly legal defense of acts that could result in the deaths of many people,so one person could claim glory. I am not attacking you, Preston or his Cause. ut for every case you can call upon,I can call upon many more. Novas have been around for 16 years, but cases remarkable similar to these have been around for hundreds of years.

And DeeCee is my town too. I have been at this game for a few years now,I know what judges see what,and who to ask for favors to get things done.You may be doing this pro bono, and doing it because you believe in this cause. I am doing this because this is my LIFE.I have a legal staff, and firm that doesn't not need to make profit,as I make money just for living now.

But in the end if you wish to set of the legal ground for novas to wave the law away with magic wands, so be it.Just do not come crying to me when you lose someone you love do to premeditated acts of another,only to have that person walk free.

[Preston]

"Those who give up Freedom for Security will have neither."

Worse, you would rob the rights of a few for the security of the majority. If that isn't counter to freedom and democracy, I don't know what is.

The law already makes exception for 'state of mind' and few things are more an abnormal state of mind than an eruption.

What you are counseling is racism, Ms. Baby, and I don't even think you see that.

[Ulysses Bailey]

How ironic, Ghetto Funk Baby, law is my life too. And I have my own private practice too.

Leave the discussion about "letting someone go" to the legislators down the street or to the law school lecture halls. What's important about the Fund is this key fact regarding America: everyone is entitled to a defense.

But I shouldn't have to remind you of this, this is Civics 101 from high school.

[Juri 'Salamander' McClendon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghetto Funk Baby:
Yes mister Bailey, prefectly legal defense of acts that could result in the deaths of many people,so one person could claim glory. I am not attacking you, Preston or his Cause. ut for every case you can call upon,I can call upon many more. Novas have been around for 16 years, but cases remarkable similar to these have been around for hundreds of years.

And DeeCee is my town too. I have been at this game for a few years now,I know what judges see what,and who to ask for favors to get things done.You may be doing this pro bono, and doing it because you believe in this cause. I am doing this because this is my LIFE.I have a legal staff, and firm that doesn't not need to make profit,as I make money just for living now.

But in the end if you wish to set of the legal ground for novas to wave the law away with magic wands, so be it.Just do not come crying to me when you lose someone you love do to premeditated acts of another,only to have that person walk free.

This is the biggest example of a lawyer wiggling a penis in front of another lawyer that I've ever seen in my life.

The funny part is that this particular lawyer had her penis cut off and she still feels the need to wave it.

I did this, I did that, I have this, you'll be sorry...wank wank wank wank wank wank wank.

[Alex Craft]

Have to say - this made me smile. I'll contribute a quarter of a million or so next time I'm in Vegas. (c;

[kestrel404]

I love the idea, Preston. If my assets weren't frozen, I'd certainly contribute. You'll have to take a raincheck for now.

[Hugin]

Mine are not and they are considerable. Money will be arriving shortly.

[Miss Baby]

Juri, you are not the reason I am mad. You are a effect, not the cause. The DA you had is part of the cause. Your local DA beat me. You simply were born.

Preston we should ignore the law in cases of some minorities? I am aware of cases dating back to the forming of this nation that set that some "race" of people can't be blamed for their acts,as they are predisposed to those acts. In the last 20 years, the defencive actions "because I am black and male" has worked too many times.It has stopped working. Because being black doesn't give you a magic get out of jail card. We stand here, and look down the road. I see a dark road indeed. But you can stand up for nova rights,damn the law.You can stand up for nova power, fuck the results. That is your right.

But don't you dare quote Jefferson in the name of your racist propaganda. You have the nerve to call me racist. I want the law to cover and protect everyone as equals. You want novas to be given slap on the wrists and gold stars.Go back do you, your own job. Punish crimes, not criminals.

[Great Monster C]

Ms. Baby, my but you are a magnificent idiot. Preston spoke of protectiong novas from prosecution regarding events surrounding their eruptions you silly twit. Their eruptions. You remember what eruptions are don't you? That period of time in which a nova has no conscious control over what they do? Do you think when Dr. Troll rampaged through his alma matter he had any clue as to what he was doing?

It is accepted scientific theory that an erupting nova does not possess the capacity to control their actions. That has been accepted in legal precedent. Reduced capacity, reduced culpability.

I sincerely doubt that Preston is advocating the defense of "It's not my fault because I have a node" when it comes to cases of theft, murder, or destruction of property when we are speaking of a novas acting consciously.

Go back and actually read a little you semi-literate chimpanzee.

Lord I detest hysterics.

[Preston]

Ms. Baby, I am a law enforcement officer, not a jurist, nor a legislator. I enforce the laws. I don't interpret them.

What you mention is a legal defense, not a law. Sure, defense attorneys have used all kinds of whooey to get their clients off. That isn't my worry.

Unjust laws that specifically target a minority are my concern, as a citizen.

I am not damning any law, Ms. Baby. I am using the legal channels open to me to stop legislation I see as cruel and short-sighted.

As someone who enforces the law, I know there are already laws on the books that cover 'abuses' of nova powers, as well as criminal acts that lead up to the act of eruption.

Believe me, if a bank robber erupts in a shootout, he will still get busted and go to jail for the robbery. If he erupts during the shootout and kills people, he will still be charged with murder one: Death during the commission of a felony.

What you want is to force me to arrest someone for the act of eruption, unless they can prove they didn't want to erupt. To me, that is simply wrong.

Do you not see this law as so totally open to abuse that it would allow anyone to jail a new eruptee with the slightest excuse? Did you sleep through Legal Ethics?

[Miss Baby]

No, but you seemed to have. If a person visits the sites opnet site made by people who are self made novas, and takes their teaching into action. They are voiding their legal rights to say I did not plan on harming one by jumping off a bridge into incoming traffic. I did not mea for anyone to die when I parked my car in front of that train. ETC. By actively taking part in your eruption you void any and all legal protection you gain for the actions your eruption caused. Does everyone who tries to commit suicide become a nova? No. Then again not everyone who drives drunk kills someone either. What happens to someone who kills someone wile drunk?

And most novas do not actively try to become novas. I did not actively try to have a large statue fall on to me. In fact most novas become novas because dumb luck.

[Ulysses Bailey]

For the laymen here, us lawyers are talking about culpability and mens rea. Captain Preston and Leonard are talking about a nova not having criminal intent when they erupt, similar to shooting someone in self defense. Here in America, you're not guilty if it was an accident. At least, in a general sense.

Ghetto Funk Baby, on the other hand, is refering to a specific situation where mens rea can be satisfied without the intent the Captain and Leonard are talking about. A person is criminally liable if they commit an act that they have reasonable certainty will result in something bad (death, property damage, etc). So if someone tries to erupt as a nova in a particularly violent way in a public place and someone is hurt, then the new nova could be held criminally liable for that person's injuries.

Of course, it's not that cut and dried and that's why we all have our jobs.

[BlackStar]

Captain Preston, I have been too discriminating with my jobs to be über rich. But I think this is a worthy cause. Count on me for help and a bit of money.

[Ghostwriter]

I'll donate some money. My own eruption was traumatic and left a baseline brain-damaged, and I'd hate to see someone put through the wringer like I was.

[Sakurako Hino]

*scratches chin*

I've been looking into a good cause to get behind...

While I am not a full standing citizen in the US, I do see the dominoes setting up for the rest of the world to follow in the US's footsteps one way or another.

So, Captain Preston, allow me the opportunity to send 1 million dollars to your fund. I made a few stock moves against some repeat pollution code violators, and got some money to spare. So, I might as well back something worthwhile.

A little social engineering goes a long way.

[H. 'Machine' Mann]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghetto Funk Baby:
By the way you still charge someone for murder,if they shot a gun in the air,and it results in the death of person.

No, you don't. Not generally speaking though after a review of the fact you may find the matter to be complex enough to warrant considering a charge of murder.

Please familiarize yourself with the law before you make such statements.

I'd suggest Salamander avail herself of the reputable legal counsel forming a line even now, frothing at the very idea of representing her. In the meantime consider me amenable to the idea of support if not handing over a cheque at this moment.

[Preston]

A few points of clarification:

This fund is a general trust fund being created to provide legal aid to examine and, if necessary, counter anti-nova legislation in the US Congress.

Ms. McClendon's legal problems surrounding her eruption have largely been resolved. This is not a fund to handle her legal expenses.

What is now presenting itself is several proposals before various subcommittees in Congress that would attack the fundemental foundation of the accepted legal presedences concerning a novas eruption, and how it is both beyond their control, and beyond their understanding.

Specifically, it would be aimed at punishing self-actualized novas for their actions leading up to, and during their eruptions. In practice, it would be up to the newly erupted nova to prove they didn't "cause" their eruption, or place themselves in a situation were their eruption was likely.

[Miss Baby]

Yes because people normally jump off bridges, light themselves on fire, run head on into traffic. The law would only hurt those who try to commit suicide or those who are actively trying to become a nova. It would not charge someone who was hit by a drunk driver, or stray bullet from a drive by.

But if you wish to believe in what you said, look at the case of Richard Kings. He was publicly known for wanting to be a nova, and talking about how he was going to make himself one. One day he jumped in front of an SUV. That SUV had 5 people in it. 3 are dead, one will never walk again, and the last merely had to live three second and third degree burns covering 60% of her body, along with numerous broken and fractures and internal injuries. Had this happened six years ago none of them would have lived. By the way he went away for 6 months, and is now worth millions. So wile he Lives his life as a king, three people will never see the sun again. Wile he runs around looking for his prefect limo, another person is looking for a wheelchair. Wile he is working on his tan, someone is living threw skin grafts.

But hey he couldn’t have possibly known he was going to become a nova. He couldn’t have possibly known he would harm people. He couldn’t have known that he would destroy the lives of 5 young people, none of them older than 18. So let me cry for King’s bad fortunes. Let me shed tears for the asshole that kills so he can obtain glory.

Go on Preston, give the novas what they want.Go on and wave that white flag for the teragen. Go on and lick Devries' feet.Go forth and bow to Utopia, but never forget that those I try to stop gain their power by steping over others.

So wile you stand up for the cilvil Right of King, think of James Madison, who will never walk again. Think of Rose Jeferson who spent 39 hours in a hospital bed in so much pain that she died from it in the end. Yes, you are a man of the people,and care for the law. You really Serve and Protect, those with money and who need it the least.

[H. 'Machine' Mann]

Madame, you may legislate to repeal the laws of gravity or genetic and it changes nothing. No matter how noble the intent, this effort will be opposed.

Should that be unclear let me state in the strongest possible terms that this will not be allowed to succeed. Take that as you wish.

[Ulysses Bailey]

Ghetto Funk Baby - if you're angry about Mr. King's actions, then take the SUV's passengers' cases as a class action on a pro bono basis and do something about it. Every person is entitled to zealous counsel, no matter how depraved, evil, or incorrigble they may be. I'm surprised and appalled that I have to remind a member of the bar this fact.

[Miss Baby]

And do what? Give them large sum of money?It is too late for that,they already got that. Maybe I should get him civilly committed? Would you like me to open that door? If you thought the laws I am trying to pass are harsh on civil rights, think of what would happen if I got him to serve time do to a civil trail.

But money doesn't bring the dead back,or heal wounds, nor makes everything better.

[Stigmata]

Count me in, I support Juri 100% I'll do what I can to help.

[Ulysses Bailey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghetto Funk Baby:
But money doesn't bring the dead back,or heal wounds, nor makes everything better.

You're in the wrong business, equity joined with law and disappeared a long time ago.

[Sakurako Hino]

GFB manages to forget something that the proposals can do.

If they are passed, what about someone who erupts at random, and through the event of becoming a nova, which they have no control over, they become criminals when they kill a bystander.

Under such law, a newly erupted nova would be guilty of manslaughter, although the erupting Nova could not control what was happening at that point.

Would you put in handcuffs someone who was innocent? Zero Tolerance laws are an extremely bad idea. They were before N-Day and they are now.

[Miss Baby]

Hino, you did not read any of the posts I made.If you had no part in your eruption, you have no responsibly in said action. If you actively try to become a nova, you are taking your life into your own hands,and frankly are actively saying I do not care about others.I am only thinking of MYSELF. I am doing thing for MY own ends. By the way in most cases self made novas who cause the deaths of others would be charged with felony murder.

It would be the state's burden to prove that said nova was actively trying to become a nova.

[Singularity]

I will be pledging my own contribution, Preston.

[Ulysses Bailey]

Murder, Ghetto Funky Baby? How do you reconcile that goal with the Model Penal Code that's used across the country?

Look up section 210.2 (1), the subsection regarding murder:

Quote:

... criminal homicide constitutes murder when:

(a) it is committed purposely or knowingly; or

( it is committed recklessly under circumstances manifesting extreme indfference to the value of human life. Such recklessness and indfference are presumed if the actor is engaged or is an accomplice in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, or flight after committing or attempting to commit robbery, rape, or deviate sexual intercourse by force or threat of force, arson, burglary, kidnapping or felonious escape.

Nowhere in there does it apply to a nova attempting to erupt, outside of said nova doing the items I placed in bold. What you're proposing punishing is already covered under involuntary manslaughter, which is also known as Negligent Homicide. That is covered under section 210.4 and is already a three degree felony.

According to all criminal law thought, the nova can only be held culpable through criminal negligence unless he directly intended the harm to his victims. We already have a law for what you're talking about, there's no need to legislate specific instances or you risk creating a law that discriminates against a non-suspect group and therefore violating the 8th and 14th Amendments.

[Sakurako Hino]

Then there is the remarks she made. She has come out against supporting initiatives that would protect the rights of newly erupted Novas.

Here is a quote.

"By actively taking part in your eruption you void any and all legal protection you gain for the actions your eruption caused."

So, by let's say for instance, you're a bungee jumping baseline, and your cord snaps. The subsequent stimuli triggers your eruption and saves your life, yet causes someone else's death in the process. Since your rights are moot because you participated in your own eruption (by voluntarily taking your own life into your hands, even though you weren't looking to erupt) and could be charged with manslaughter.

You see, by your point, the mind of the newly erupted defendant would need to be read to verify that the person was indeed just a thrill-seeking baseline.

Are you willing to make psychically collected information evidence?

[Miss Baby]

Hino, for one who claim not to like detail you sure dive into the,. Did you cut,or know that the cord was damaged?If you neither tampered with nor knew of others tampering with it. As in lake of care to the cord, or physically damaging the cord. You did not take part in your eruption, at least on legal grounds.

Had you known the cord was damaged or that you damaged the cord,that would be another story.I do not seek too jail those who are covered by the act of God. I just say novas should live by the same rules as baselines.

[Preston]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghetto Funk Baby:
I do not seek too jail those who are covered by the act of God. I just say novas should live by the same rules as baselines.

We do live by the same rules as baselines. What you are seeking is a law specifically designed to penalize novas.
Whatever the legislative principles might be, what you are doing is criminalizing the eruption process. When law enforcement shows up at an eruption scene, they would then have to detain the eruptee, not get them to medical attention.
Contrary to popular myth, it would fall to the recent eruptee to prove they were not cognizant of the damage they committed before they actually erupted. Most arrests are done on circumstancial evidence. After all, we rarely see the person fire the gun into the victim. If we show up, see a person lying on the ground wounded and another standing over them with a gun, we ASSUME that they are connected. We do not dust the gun for prints, check the suspect for cordite residue, or do an immediate ballistics check at the scene.

I do not want to see vulnerable new eruptees being subjected to the legal process, when they are far more likely in need of being treated for trauma.

The example you give is an extreme case, Ms. Baby. It is and was a tragedy, but it does not justify your actions. The current system is not flawless, but few things ever are. It would be better to allow our law enforcement personnel and jurists some leeway, instead of binding them with Federal Regulations.

[Miss Baby]

Some leeway you say? You want some leeway? Have brushed up on the Zurich Accord, and the Act of God? Have you forgotten the Act of God only applies to cases when the party has to involvement in the problem? It is Unlikely that if I shot a gun into the air, that it will hit anyone. It about as unlikely as if a baseline jumps in front of a car, train, set themselves ablaze ECT... they will become novas. Why should the baseline that becomes a nova be treated as if he is a victim? Maybe we should tear down the rape shield laws wile we are at it. It certainly makes for unfair trails on the part of the rapists.

Preston, you have look at the bigger picture. Most self-made novas erupt because they are committing a crime. If Juri did not erupt, she would be dead, or at least charged with attempted suicide and arson. If King did not erupt and lived he could have been changed with numerous crimes depending on the out come.

As for King's case being extreme, look at Rebecca Sung of France. Her jump off the Eiffel tower caused 10 deaths, 3 mainings, and 35 injuries and nearly caused irreversible damage to a national treasure.

And the law I am saying gives more leeway. Because there are cases in witch self made novas cause so much damage that it does not mater that they did not know they were going to cause harm. They were so wrapped in their own glory that they most likely would not care about others anyways. This law would protect the victims of self-made novas. You just want to hail in another third riche.

[Ghostwriter]

Some people would argue over the colour of the sky just to disagree with others.