opnet [OpNet] Anyone catch that new show?

[Wakinyan]

On Discovery last night?

I think it was called Novas: Doorways to the Universe.

It was very informative about how Novas work and preceive the world in so many different ways. I really liked the CGI of how the MR Coils and node interacted as a power was used. It really helped me get a better understanding of what is going on with the whole thing.

[Archon]

I missed it. Funny thing is, i can't really remember what i was doing last night...

Go me, and my attention span of a hummingbird.

[Sakurako Hino]

*giggle*

Leave it to humankind to over-analyse EVERYTHING.

I watched it. They made it look like we had some insight on god or the universe or something. Just what I needed, more obsessed people dropping off food and offerings wherever I light myself.

[Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely]

I don't watch much of that stuff Totem but a coupla the lab boys were talking about it when I was getting my check up. They thought it was basically Quantum for Really Really Dumb Dummies. But, these guys thought MIT was a walk in the park.

[Machina]

My dog thought it was pretty funny, Tote, but I seem to have fallen asleep about five minutes in with an empty bottle of rye in one hand and the latest issue of Nova Blue in the other.

Henri Mazarin is an intellectual hack compared to Larry Flynt.

[Singularity]

Yes, I saw it too, Totem. An interesting show but did not go into the detail I am learning to appreciate.

What would be interesting is their take on the coils and your node in relation to your feathers...

[Preston]

MIT? That must have been some time ago. It has gotten much more bleeding-edge in the past few years, and promotes much more intellectual freedom now-a-days.

[Wakinyan]

Well actually if someone come up with a Node for Dummies book I'd likely buy a copy. I am still not sure how to pull up some of what people call "active" powers. Everything I do just seems pretty standard. I flap my wings I fly. Up until the Sun Dance I had never even really felt my node working. I shouldn't be so lazy about it I guess. There are those of us who push ourselves everyday and to be honest I don't think I have pushed myself once yet.

[Wakinyan]

Apparently the show is a miniseries.

Tonight it talked about how super strong individuals can lift things that should fall apart. Something about tensil strength of objects. Anyway, many believe that when lifting super heavy items Novas impose some sort of tactile TK or Quantum imprint on the item in order to keep it together. Pretty interesting.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Totem:...many believe that when lifting super heavy items Novas impose some sort of tactile TK or Quantum imprint on the item in order to keep it together. Pretty interesting.

We do something, or at least some of us do.

It's not a well understood piece of physics, and most of the big brains have better things to do than look seriously into it.

[Singularity]

I have no idea how I can lift up a ship without my hands punching straight through the hull. Subconsciously using telekinetics or a quantum imprint may be the truth. Obviously we do not use those little tricks when we are trying to hurt something...

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:


It's not a well understood piece of physics, and most of the big brains have better things to do than look seriously into it.

There are some interesting theories out there, but little hard proof. At least scientifically accepted proof. Most physical devices aren't precise enough to detect the interactions that occur during such a feat, but a number of Novas do possess a combination of talents that allow them to guess out exactly what is going on. There are even one or two I've met that have the combination of perceptive skills, intellectual precision and the imagination necessary to form some fascinating conclusions. But how do you communicate to the world, especially to baseline scientists something that appears as science fiction when compared to the canon of accepted theory?

[Wakinyan]

Very slowly?

[Cristobal Galvain Pulles]

Very, very slowly. With lots of colorful pictures. Too bad asprin no longer works on us...

I once tried to explain how a theoretical reactionless flight system would work to a group of baseline scientists. All I got were blank stares in return. It was very frustrating.

[Sakurako Hino]

I think that our gifts may, and I state this in total, out of the blue cluelessness, effect the Time-Space continuum in subtle or not so subtle ways.

Perhaps our will is strong enough to effect reality?

[Singularity]

I think that is a bit too metaphysical, Sakurako. The vast majority of our abilities seem to have a scientific basis revolving around the manipulation of the four forces of the universe (albeit in a few interesting and unique fashion). While we may appear to "bend" reality, we are still working within its confines.

[Sakurako Hino]

Yes, but do we know every detail on how we do it. Yes I know, we influence things on the Quantum level, but what if there is something behind the curtain, if you will.

Take for instance, when I fire off my not so awesome kinetic bolts. They look like energy balls, but hit like a punch, and leaves behind dispersed energy in the form of translucent cherry blossom petals made of the residual energy.

Now, How do you suppose a completely energy based attack converts to Kinetic, not energetic damage?

Simply put, it has to be the manipulation of reality on the Quantum level. Through the manipulation of Quantum energies that literally strum the threads woven into the fabric of time-space.

I toss the ball, but it hits like a ton of bricks, not a focussed energetic particle charge.

It's the same when one of our more well endowed bretheren lifts let's say, oh, a large bus. Or something larger. It's his or her intent to lift the object, not just what is in contact with the hands.

I know there is some holes in this speculation, but hey, it's all I got.

[Singularity]

It is all right, Sakurako, we are often limited in our understanding of the universe. A science teacher once told me science is not full of laws but merely our best understanding at the moment.

Still, you could boil down our abilities simply to "manipulating reality." However, the same could be said of how a physical being merely exists and interacts with the world.

[Ghostwriter]

Explaining things to baselines requires a lot of patience, brightly coloured pictures and a crate of double-malt whiskey right afterwards.

[Singularity]

Agreed, Codex. I have tried explaining my method of meditation and ways of exploring my abilities but it seems to be lost on deaf or incompetent ears at times. Even considering my prior bad attitude, it was most difficult field training some of the baseline troops in various war zones. Granted, that could be attributed to the use of conscripts...

[Alex Craft]

"Yes, but do we know every detail on how we do it. Yes I know, we influence things on the Quantum level, but what if there is something behind the curtain, if you will."

And that's the question, isn't it?

Franklin, I think you may be underestimating what's going on 'behind the curtain,' as Sakurako puts it. True, most of our abilities are just playing with the fundamental forces of the universe, but how do we do that? There's a distinct chain of events: I want something to happen, quantum forces in my vicinity realign, it happens. Somewhere between the first and second events something fantastic is happening.

"Explaining things to baselines requires a lot of patience, brightly coloured pictures and a crate of double-malt whiskey right afterwards"

If only the last would help ... I metabolize alcohol like water. Fortunately, since my Project days, I've been in work where explanations to humans can be kept to a stony explanation and the phrase: "Do it. It will work." Also helps that my current boss, while crazy as a loon, is a mentally enhanced nova as well.

[Singularity]

Perhaps I am losing my sense of wonder with the world, Alex. I suppose I have lost some of the trees by looking at the forest.

[Wakinyan]

Quote:

I metabolize alcohol like water.

For those who cannot control your own metabolic rates I salute you and happily drink the whiskey you cannot!

(Crap I keep forgetting I am to "young" to drink. Disregard this post!)

[Jager]

I would note that few novas can agree on exactly how we do what we do. The foundation of our quantum expressions is our perceptions of the universe.

[Ghostwriter]

That's where the crate comes in, Alex. *chuckle*

I wish I could try your way of dealing with it, but I would find myself quite firmly slapped down for taking such an attitude with baselines.

[Hugin]

Of course you are. And how do you appreciate it when someone with a tenth of your intellect and imagination tries to instruct you on the best way to go about your job?

[Ghostwriter]

I rarely have that problem, Prodigy. I still use traditional methods for most of my work, and what I can do and they can't, they usually have the sense to shut up and let me do it.

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Franklin 'Singularity' Alden:
It is all right, Sakurako, we are often limited in our understanding of the universe. A science teacher once told me science is not full of laws but merely our best understanding at the moment.

Still, you could boil down our abilities simply to "manipulating reality." However, the same could be said of how a physical being merely exists and interacts with the world.

Absolutely true.

Then again, what really tweaks me, is that I have this overclocked mind, and yet God, or whatever, has kept me from total omnipotence. I guess such things aren't for us corporeal beings to have.

So, I don't have all the answers. All I got are theories and guesses. But, I'd rather have those than know everything and have the world become... Mundane.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Franklin 'Singularity' Alden:
Still, you could boil down our abilities simply to "manipulating reality." However, the same could be said of how a physical being merely exists and interacts with the world.

Fallacy. Physical beings existing and interacting with the world follow a defined set of parameters and limitations that govern what they can and cannot do. This is the natural order of reality, not a manipulation of it.

Your argument holds merit if you approached it from the angle that a Nova's manipulation of their environment, in defiance of those parameters, is also part of the natural order of reality.

I don't believe this is the point you are attempting to make, however.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
I don't believe this is the point you are attempting to make, however.

Correct. The point I was attempting to make is stating that we simply "manipulate reality" is an overgeneralization of our abilities and an inaccurate one as well.

Nova and baselines scientists and philosophers alike still cannot fully explain how some novas accomplish their acts. Often these scholars fall back on the reality manipulation when they run into said shortcomings. From their point of view, if they cannot explain it then it must be defying reality.

However, ignorance of the method does not mean lack of a method. The creation of fire was once considered magical but humanity unlocked the method of how it is created. Travel beyond the speed of sound was considered impossible yet a way was found and is now considered simplistic. Bioluminescent organisms were considered magical or tools of the Devil yet scientists gave us the true reason why they glow. Fire was not something that acted outside of reality up until the moment we understood it nor was travelling faster than sound nor did those glowing organisms suddenly become non-magical. We called it magic or reality manipulation merely because we did not understand. Your ability to manipulate space, Codex's control of words, or even my enhanced abilities may appear to defy all rules of reality and physics but our understanding of said rules is incomplete and imperfect. In time, I believe a nova scientist or philosopher will finally crack the puzzle and give us the mechanics we utilize.

Hm, perhaps I was making that point. But I do not agree a nova's manipulation of their environment is a defiance of said environment's parameters. We just do not consciously know the rules we are following subconsciously.

[Ashnod]

Fascinating. When speaking of matters of religion, one must have faith that the deity or dogma is actually real and not a fabrication. When speaking of science, one must do the same, in regards that all things can be defined but simply haven't been yet.

A convenient argument. It boils down to "I'm right, I just can't prove it...yet."

Nova and baselines scientists and philosophers alike still cannot fully explain how some novas accomplish their acts. Often these scholars fall back on the reality manipulation when they run into said shortcomings. From their point of view, if they cannot explain it then it must be defying reality. However, ignorance of the method does not mean lack of a method.

However, lack of a method doesn't necessarily mean ignorance of a method. You should keep that in mind. Science, by its very nature, insists that nothing is outside its boundaries. Those who subscribe to its infallibility, only its ignorance, do so seemingly with the same blind faith as do followers of religion.

While I am inclined to agree with you, that a Nova's abilities to "manipulate reality" are part of the natural order of reality, I try keeping an open mind that I may be incorrect about this.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
While I am inclined to agree with you, that a Nova's abilities to "manipulate reality" are part of the natural order of reality, I try keeping an open mind that I may be incorrect about this.

Fair enough and I do try to add my own cavets regarding my own possible ignorance. Although a few others have reminded me it may nice to have that sense of whimsy regarding the universe again...

[Preston]

Okay. I must be the oddity. I can explain things to baseline scientists and scholars and they understand me. Maybe it is an as-of-yet unknown power I possess.

Our scope of knowledge grows as it confronts the unknown. All it takes is the hunger for understanding and the time to learn.

[Ghostwriter]

Either you work with uncommonly intelligent people, Preston, or you have the ability to create 'Hyper-Intelligence for Dummies' explanations.

[DigiGeist]

Just let them try to explain my "rising from practically dead" trick. That'd be a hoot.

[H. 'Machine' Mann]

Rather a simplistic task given the conditional practically dead, rather than the more impressive yet subtly emphatic dead and pushing up daisies before bothering to resurrect myself. The second isn't much more difficult on a theoretical basis.

Perhaps I should contact Discovery.

[Sakurako Hino]

Actually, he has to say "practically dead" because I've heard of NO ONE coming back from complete cessation of bodily functions. At least without dire damage to the brain and organs. Probably at the threshold of checking out, that's when he popped the cork, if you will.

How he pulls it off now a days, I have no clue and I don't think he wants me to fire off a machine gun at him to see how it works.

[DigiGeist]

Quote:

Originally posted by H. 'Machine' Mann:
Rather a simplistic task given the conditional practically dead, rather than the more impressive yet subtly emphatic dead and pushing up daisies before bothering to resurrect myself. The second isn't much more difficult on a theoretical basis.

Perhaps I should contact Discovery.

Let me put it like this.

I get shot up,

I go down, seemingly dead,

A few hours later I get back up. Fixed up enough to stagger into a hospital.

Or, I just lay there and heal up while scaring the transients in the alley.

That's the best I can explain it.

[Alex Craft]

"Okay. I must be the oddity. I can explain things to baseline scientists and scholars and they understand me."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your role, but I have to ask: how often do you need to explain highly theoretical concepts perhaps a decade ahead of baseline science's learning curve? I doubt most of us have any trouble with conveying more familiar concepts, but the problem with 'nova science' is that you usually aren't explaining just one concept. Instead, you first have to go through all of the concepts that led up to the key concept, because the human scientists don't get that stuff either.

It's like having to start with basic algebra when you really want to talk about multivariable calculus.

[H. 'Machine' Mann]

This is referred to as the ladder of development, Mr Craft. Sometimes described as making the tools necessary to craft the tools, that are required to create the environment, which will one day provide fertile soil for the development of technology X. Although the idea is usually applied to the endeavor of technologies, consider the implications when the development is in social areas. Or areas that are usually considered reserved for the hand of god.

Most likely Preston is being quite truthful as he sees it. Using his gifts at a subconscious or metaconscious level, he already knows how to phrase something, to what individuals and thereby achieve the limited understanding he feels necessary. As well, he probably, subconsciously, knows not to bother explaining some ideas to some people.

Ms Hino, I on the other hand have heard of several someones coming back from a complete cessation of bodily function without dire harm to the brain or other organs. You might consider questioning the conclusions drawn by mainstream media. The reports themselves are datum strings but the conclusions are woefully inadaquate in most cases.

Mr Digigeist, there are likely two seperate processes involved and neither is overly complex. Perhaps I shall give the Discovery organization a call. You might consider offering some research time to Triton. Surely you're aware of that every single development in the last few years has been the direct result of novas? Studying the processes of your so-called resurrection will likely offer several new avenues of research for baseline or perhaps even nova medicine.