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[OpNet] Religion unto ourselves.


Wakinyan

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Me again.

Could any of you please share your religious beliefs here. I am curious how many of us believe these days. Not to mention what do we believe in. I am not asking in order to judge you I am asking simply because I want to know if spiritualism exists in our race or if it should.

To Malu in particular I would like to hear your take on this. I read your "Me and my people" thread and would like to hear how you have dealt with it in the past three years. Maybe that would be something you and I should speak of in private sometime. Up to you.

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I'm a Catholic, raised that way all my life. Father Connoly told me something at my last confession that really connected with me. It was something like;

"Remember too humility in the things you do. The Son of God, listened to Mary, and performed miracles for her. He also humbled himself in the desert, and allowed himself to be sacrificed, slaughtered without mercy by us, but for us. The most powerful being in the world, in the universe, allowed his own creations to kill him, so that we could be saved. Remember that."

Then he said:

"You don't have it so tough you know. I have to worry about people's eternity and salvation. You have the easy job, you have to take care of something that is destined to fail at some point. People need to remember that. They look around them, especially with all the new toys, and people flying and lifting cars, and they say 'How wondrous!' as if that was all there was. But there's an infinite amount more. You need to remember that, and maybe remind people of that too. Like other Novas. They're the new rock stars, but even they have a soul, and I guarentee you, it is not invulnerable, not to sin or to God's love."

That last part really got me. I try to remember that in all the things I do. All my power is still nothing compared to the Holy Spirit. if anything, I need to be more humble and worthy of it, I feel.

[OOC: the whole story can be seen at the Abberrant Zero thread under War Stories]

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I do believe in some sort of Supreme Being or intelligence. With all that I know and am able to deduce there are still mysteries. Mysteries that as far as I can tell should not be mysteries. And in these I see the hand of God.

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Insofar as moral and ethical codes of behavioral conduct constitute a "religion" (and they do not), one could most closely describe me as a non-traditional practitioner of Asatru.

I am of the mind that there exists in this universe and others something greater than even the heights of what a nova is capable of, but I would not be so arrogant as to claim that I have any insight as to what that entity might be, whether it is sentient, omniscient, omnipotent, or even cares.

I have only ideas.

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I was raised by a non-denominational Christian father and a very laid-back Buddhist mother. laugh I've turned out to be an Agnostic who leans strongly in the way of Atheism. I just think that if there is a god, he or she or it (or whatever :P ) doesn't have anything to do with what goes on down here.

And if he does, I think he owes some of us an apology. mad

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I believe that there is something else to the world, than what we see.Even as novas,I think we see but a limited view of the world. I do believe that there is some force out there that has given us our gifts. If it is necessary to put a title on said force,then yes I would say God. I do not think the God is prefect. I do not see it as being all love,powerful,or knowing. For if it was any of these three traits, I would wonder why the world is this way. I do belive that it is power,loving and knows more than I ever will.

I could go on for pages about this topic.I have in fact written more than one book on this and or related subjects. I am open on my views,and if anyone would wish to talk to me, I shall be Denver, talking to the other.

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What a bunch of self-congratulatory prom queens you fucks are. Catholic? Buddhist? Deist? Fucking Asatru? Jesus shit, do you still believe in Santa Claus, you fucking children? I can't even tell you what a splendid fucking boner it gives me that you apes can wrap yourselves in your quaint little theological blankets and convince yourself that everything is going to be okay because someone's at the controls.

Guess what, dipshits. The controls are broken, the pilot is a mean drunk and the stewardess has a flabby ass and forgot your honey-roasted nuts. The plane is going down, and thinking happy thoughts isn't going to change a fucking thing.

Belief in god. Sweet fucking christ. It's like Sam Pekinpah working at a StarBucks. It'd be funny if it wasn't so goddamned pathetic.

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It sounds like you learned a new word Machina and are just busting to use it. For someone who doesn't believe in God, you certainly invoke and profane Him a lot.

Bottom line, God exists for us, we don't exist for him. The fact that you don't believe in Him only hurts you. God doesn't sit around saying "Darn, if only Machina believed in me!". All your power, arrogance, and so-called wisdom, is nothing more than a fart in the wind, and so are you without some kind of faith. Remember this, there aren't any atheists in fox holes. When your time comes (and it doesn't have to be bad) you'll do like everyone else does, and cast out to God. You too will do that.

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I can afford that luxury, Interceptor, because I see your precious "god" for what he is; namely, a steaming load of bullshit. I cannot fucking believe that there are still novas out there who buy into the religion shtick, and for reasons other than publicity or groupies.

Honestly. Belief in god? What, does the spandex choke your upper motor functions? Steroids and mite make you retarded?

Let me clue you into an unfortunate revelation. God was the construct of man's derranged little caveman mind, the creation of a time when man was still living in caves afraid of the sun, throwing stones at his own shadow and dying of fear and old age at thirty-fucking-five. And if it hadn't been for the tyrants that run your little show from their quaintly humble temple in Italy (you know, humble, like the lord likes it) spreading their theocratic claws all over the earth, we might have discarded theology for the pfil it is by now.

Thank you, supporters of the Catholic church! Thank you for two millenia of fear, lies, deceit, guilt and chicanery!

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Bitterness isn't a virtue, nor is being a prick. Believe in Him or not, believe in the Catholic faith or not, there will come a time when you will cast out to a higher power than your own. It could be a great or terrible event that causes it, but it will happen. Atheists are some of the least honest people, because they can't hold onto their beliefs when they're put to the test.

The only person you're convincing with your rants is yourself, and like I said, there will come a time when that fails also.

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God. Can. Suck. My. Cock.

I think the ecclesiastic semen you ingested as a child has finally taken root and infected your brain, spandex-lad.

I mean, my normal level of abuse doesn't even apply to a fucking chimp like you. What a waste of a node you are. Do you even fucking listen to yourself? Do you ever bother to look over the things you've just written and think to yourself

"Gee! You know, I just sort of noticed, what I wrote here makes me look like a brain-dead right-wing fundamentalist asshole!"

Let's take another look at your grand guignol of epic idiocy:

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Quote:
"Atheists are some of the least honest people, because they can't hold onto their beliefs when they're put to the test."
What an astute observation. I'll be sure to pass that gem on to Friedrich Nietzsche, Samuel Clemens, Bill Hicks, George Carlin, Noam Chomsky, Greg Graffin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, Nikola Tesla, HG Wells, Marie Curie, Bertrand Russel, Alfred Hitchcock, Walt Disney, George Orwell, Joseph Campbell, Ayn Rand, Oscar Schindler, Isaac Asimov, Charles Schultz, John Lennon, Douglas Adams and ALBERT FUCKING EINSTEIN as soon as I get the chance.

Go fuck yourself.

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The point, Sailor Pinhead, was that all of those people I listed were non-believers. Moral, upstanding, upright, decent, tested, HONEST non-believers.

In short, I was shooting down the boy-fucker's paper tiger. With a Hind D chopper.

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Machina, you confuse a book witch can be interrelated in many ways, for the reason people have shortcomings. Do you remember Joseph Stalin? Believing or not believing in God will not make you a good person. Nor will it make you a bad person. Sometimes it narrow your worldviews, but on the whole you will be just as kind or cruel as you would be had you believed or not.

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Machina, Einstein did believe in God, and he also believed in the huge limits that people had, especially about knowledge and understanding. Essentially he knew that there was an infinite amount that he didnt know, and what do you think that infinite amount was?

"God does not play dice with the universe." Sound familiar?

And everyone else you mentioned, everyone, cast to God when their own mortal failings became too great to account for everything their limited understanding allowed them to believe. For some it happened on their death bed maybe, but others may have come around sooner.

For an atheist, you certainly spend a lot of time profaning the one you claim doesn't exist. Any particular reason? Your blasphemy doesn't bother me, like I said before, you're like a kid who just learned a new word or two. Who are you trying to convince here? What bad thing in your life happened that you blame God for? That's what your brand of 'atheism' strikes me as, a grudge against the Lord. I think you do believe in God, and just don't like Him. You're pissed off the way a kid gets when Mommy or Daddy punishes him, or doesn't get him the new video game for Christmas. If that's not the case why then are you so interested in blasphemy? Real atheists don't usually get so rabid against God, they just refuse to acknowledge His existence. You though strike me as the opposite.

Like I said before, who are you trying to convince? You're not going to convince me, and you won't convince yourself either, no matter how often you denounce him. You'll come around. Something will happen in your life that will cause you to realize the emptiness of your life, and there's only one cure for it. But that's another story. It will happen, don't worry, and you won't need to apoligize to me later on, the experience you have from it will be enough.

Keep ranting though, it's mildly entertaining. Kind of like the voyeuristic pleasure of watching a kid throw a temper tantrum in a store.

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That's not a very good argument, Interceptor. Your hypothesis is that all of those people at some point did or will turn to god for support and love, but that simply isn't true. You're making an assumption, and it is one that is exceptionally shaky at best.

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It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
So which is it, Interceptor? Are you a motherfucking liar or a mongoloid retard?

Also, you didn't even bother to refute my arguement, that being that you are full of dogshit when you claim that Atheists are "less honest" than religious fucks. Not that I'm surprised that you'd pick and choose your arguments like that. If I was as stupid as you are, I might stumble over such crude and elementary logical phallacies. Unfortunately for you, I've forgotten more about theology than you'll ever be bothered to learn, and frankly, fuckhead, your voodoo doesn't work on me.

Go peddle your crazy elsewhere.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ronin:
That's not a very good argument, Interceptor. Your hypothesis is that all of those people at some point did or will turn to god for support and love, but that simply isn't true. You're making an assumption, and it is one that is exceptionally shaky at best.
Believe what you will. I'm not trying to convince anyone here, because my own words would never be enough. I have faith, faith in God, and faith in man's inherent weakness that cries out for God's love and strength. I make no assumption. I believe it with all my heart, that no one is strong enough and sure enough that they don't look to a higher power at some point. And even if they were, they've accomplished nothing, in the end they will believe, and unfortunately for them it will be too late.

The greatest of scientists and philosphers acknowledge that the universe is too ordered, too structured, to happen by random chance. That the idea of random collisions of sub atomic particles in the infinite vastness of the universe caused all that we know and don't know to exist, is remote to the point of impossibility. They agree that it is far more likely that an intelligence, will, and power caused it all to happen instead.

In the end, as always, it is a matter of belief and faith.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Machina:
Quote:
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
So which is it, Interceptor? Are you a motherfucking liar or a mongoloid retard?

Also, you didn't even bother to refute my arguement, that being that you are full of dogshit when you claim that Atheists are "less honest" than religious fucks. Not that I'm surprised that you'd pick and choose your arguments like that. If I was as stupid as you are, I might stumble over such crude and elementary logical phallacies. Unfortunately for you, I've forgotten more about theology than you'll ever be bothered to learn, and frankly, fuckhead, your voodoo doesn't work on me.

Go peddle your crazy elsewhere.
Not much more to say to you on this Machina. I'm sure that quote you mentioned brought no comfort to Einstein when he had to account for himself before the Throne, and who knows what he was thinking right before that. As I said before God doesn't ponder why people might choose not to believe in Him. It is for man to believe in God, not the other way around.

Atheists are not honest. I did refute it. All people cast out for strength, guidance, love, or in your case, blame. The reason they are dishonest, is they are dishonest to others when they claim they don't believe in God, and are deluding themselves also. The proof and refutation you want won't come from me, unless I were to do something that would make you believe in God, such as sending you to him. Don't take that as a threat, I have no intention of doing that, but with your stubbornness, that might be the only way. For some it takes such a profound and final experience. As I said before, and you never refuted it, there are no atheists in foxholes.

In the end I look to the Bard for your childish rants. "Methinks thou doth protest too much." Atheists usually don't blaspheme so much. Don't take up your issue with God with me, take it up with the one you claim not to believe in. You're not fooling me or Him. But I can't provide you what you're really looking for. Good luck with that.
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Quote:
The greatest of scientists and philosphers acknowledge that the universe is too ordered, too structured, to happen by random chance.
PLEASE SHOW YOUR WORK.

Quote:
The proof and refutation you want won't come from me, unless I were to do something that would make you believe in God, such as sending you to him.
Don't you dare ever fucking threaten me ever fucking again.

Enough. You're done, Interceptor. You've gone from debating theology to soapboxing your mad dogma. Your arguments make sense only to you and people who already agree with you; they have no applicability whatsoever in the real world.

Also, thank you for acquiescing to me that on the Einstein matter, you were, as I pointed out, FULL OF DOGSHIT. It takes a big man to admit he's a moron like that.
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Machina: Einstein was, for lack of a better term, a Deist. To him, something or someone made the universe but did not intervene, actively nor passively, after it was made. Like Atheism with a "But..." attached.

On an interesting note, this was his take on religion and science:

,,
Quote:
Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.
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"Don't you dare ever fucking threaten me ever fucking again."

I didn't. I assume you can read:

"Don't take that as a threat, I have no intention of doing that"

And what if I did threaten you? Then what? More swears? You're the one dropping bombs around here not me. You don't impress me Machina, and unfortunately you don't interest me any more either.

When you do come around, unfortunately it will likely be a tragic occurence that causes it. Like a Greek tragedy, your pride will cause your downfall. I don't wish this on you, I don't want anything bad to happen in fact. However only something drastic would make you see it, before it's far too late. Good luck. And keep your word on this, don't talk to me any more. I'm no saint, I don't have the patience of one, and I'm done listening to you.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Machina:
The point, Sailor Pinhead, was that all of those people I listed were non-believers. Moral, upstanding, upright, decent, tested, HONEST non-believers.

In short, I was shooting down the boy-fucker's paper tiger. With a Hind D chopper.
I dunno, I think my response was quite valid. And It's Sailor Brat, not Sailor Pinhead, Dark Prince of Angst. I'll be sure to put you on the top of my list of Youma to defeat once I clear some room.

Pinhead... BAH. I've heard better in Elementary School.

You're dealing with someone who has touched the divine, if only for a moment, Machina. I almost found the operating language God Himself/Herself/Itself uses to operate our fine universe. Ever hear of Unified Theory? Zero-Point Energy? Creating matter from Energy?

Before you discount the evidence of God existing, perhaps you should get to know reality. That missing part, that peice of the real world you just cannot quantify, that's God's realm.

I'm not really espousing any religions, I just know God exists. I believe God exists. All around us and within us.

So, denying God's existance, is sorta like denying your own existance.
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Wow ...

Last time I let a girl talk me into a long, quiet cruise.

I can say that I believe in God. I have faith in a higher power that has laid out a foundation for us to build upon, as we grow and mature.

If you don't want to believe, more power to ya, but at least I can claim to never be truly alone.

Machina, I admire your self-loathing. Its interesting to see, it happens so rarely. I am curious about what you are really angry about. After all, since the universe has no higher purpose, you have no one to blame, but yourself, for your condition. Well, maybe your parents.

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Ooh, good one, Jag. "I can claim to never be truly alone." Does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy and secure inside? That you have that little safety blanket to cuddle up in, that diaper to shit in, when all else seems lost? You fucking weakling. If it frightens or discomforts you to be alone -- to know that you are alone in this world, no matter how close you may become to others -- then I suggest you use your amazing cosmic powers to dislodge your lips from your mother's tit.

What am I angry about? I lost my job, you prick. I liked my job. A lot. It gave me purpose. I felt as though it gave me meaning. And I have been ultimately robbed of my job by the very thing that made me so good at it. Oh, sick irony, blah blah fucking blah. I just want my fucking life back.

Blame? This isn't a blame game, blondy. There's nobody to blame. Who the fuck do you blame when a tornado tears down your house? You can't fucking well blame the weather. But it's pretty reasonable to get pissed off about it. I don't believe in god, Jag. But I believe in misfortune.

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Does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy and secure inside?

Why yes, I do. Thank you for asking. laugh

What am I angry about? I lost my job, you prick. I liked my job. A lot. It gave me purpose. I felt as though it gave me meaning. And I have been ultimately robbed of my job by the very thing that made me so good at it. Oh, sick irony, blah blah fucking blah. I just want my fucking life back.

Well, since no one seems to have a clue what you are talking about, and all you want to share is your angst ... why are you bothering to give us all this crap.

If you have someone in particular to blame for your change in condition, do tell.

If you are just angry in general and pissed with the world, then welcome to the world of BELIEF.

Who the fuck do you blame when a tornado tears down your house? You can't fucking well blame the weather. But it's pretty reasonable to get pissed off about it.

Reasonable? To you, perhaps. You could approach the situation from a constructive standpoint. Rebuilding your life, looking for the new possibilities that have opened up. Realize that while you have been happy and content before, it doesn't mean you can't be happy again.

Simple kindergarten stuff you seem to have missed out on.

I don't believe in god, Jag. But I believe in misfortune.

So, the universe is random and mindless ... Gotchya.

Dude, you need to find something to believe in. Right now, you seem to be hanging on to undirected hate.

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Frankie, my boy, you are JUST. FUCKING. WRONG, and there's no way around it. What you're telling me is nothing I haven't seen or heard before, and it's just as large a load of steaming dogshit as ever.

Allow me to illustrate, "Singularity".

One must distingush the public face from the private reality. His comments on god said in public are radically different from those in his personal writings. To whit;

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Quote:
From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an atheist, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being.
You want me to keep going, Frankie? Don't test me, line-tower.
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Do you have more than one quotation regarding Einstein and atheism, Machina? There are several quotations by him regarding his belief in something beyond the simple rules of physics, directly contradicting the idea of him being an atheist. And I do remember (but I could be wrong) him stating that he did not like being called an atheist, a sentiment echoed by Stephen Hawking.

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Totem,

I apologize for not replying sooner. I do not feel that it is appropriate to debate or insult anyones spiritual beliefs so I will not go into my own on this forum. I will however extend to you the invitation to my home, and we can speak comfortably of such things if you are still interested.

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I was raised Catholic, lapsed as some do and later in life erupted.

This is not something I've thought about often since erupting but when I do, I think less of god than of novas. I sometimes wonder if the lack of deep spiritual beliefs is a factor in novas striving beyond their mental, emotional and quantum capacity. It occurs to me that in lacking a solid spiritual foundation some are essentially seeking the godhead solely in the realm of quantum.

This is not to say it is impossible to achieve or unrewarding. I simply think few will or should succeed at it.

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