opnet [OpNet] Vigilante justice?

[Wakinyan]

I am curious if anyone of you know someone or perhaps you yourself have done some sort of Nova vs Nova viglante justice? As I think about this whole Nova nation unto himself I have to conclude that also means that we can choose, when, how, why and where we choose to back up our own actions and morales. I am talking about individuals who believe in something that stand up for it. Not groups like Utopia or city defenders. The old adage, might makes right comes to mind as I think of this. But of course that means inflicting species darwinism on ourselves in the name of individual morality.

Blah I am just rambling...

[Hugin]

You're not rambling, your exploring some new concepts. Just keep in mind that should you decide to wage a little 'frontier justice' that you in fact invite others to do the same.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Avenger was really into vigilante justice.

Other than that mostly elites get dragged into these sorts of things.

[Jager]

Totem, don't brag about it.

Don't get caught.

Be very careful that you don't become someone else's target.

Get used to the fact that most novas will end up in conflict. If nothing exists, they will make something to fight about.

Right now, baselines are an excuse for conflict. Rarely are they anything more to us (which is a real pity)

[Sphere]

I've done a little Nova vrs Nova Vigilance justice...does that count?

Serious though, got a bit of a sneer when it comes to the "Bat-Novas" among us. Like Troll says, it's the elites that attract the caped crusader types. Still, if some nonce was getting all bald with bystanders I wouldn't have a prob with flashing the powers in their face.

And Jager, old bean, we're all someone's target. It'd be that "level a building by thinking bad thoughts at it" thing we can do.

[ronin]

Avenger killed mostly baselines, Troll. If the text left behind on this forum is any indication, he's only killed three novas ever, and only two of them acting as a vigilante. One of them was a matter of personal revenge, to boot.

Still, while there are many novas who kill others novas, I cannot think of many other nova-nova vigilantes, novas who fight other novas on behalf of others to address wrongs perpetuated against a third party.

Technically, however, that's precisely what Teragen's Nova Vigilance is all about. They just don't target novas exclusively.

I've had an idea swimming around my head for a few days, which I'll share sometime soon.

[Singularity]

Personal outrage is one thing, Totem. Acting on those urges is other. I can understand harming or even killing someone as the situation occurs (as we saw two months ago), but actively seeking someone out to exact justice is premeditated assault or murder.

Then again I might just be repeating myself: my opinions on this topic have been made quite clear in the past.

[Wakinyan]

One does not suffer a mad dog to live Mr. Alden, and evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

[Charr]

Still locked away is your little fantasies of good and evil, "Pidgeon"? Christ but this place is attracting some really fucked up novas.

[Wakinyan]

Screw you Calmari!

I am not like you! There is no need for me to be anything remotely like you, consider that as fanciful as you want. It is not a matter of right and wrong when you see something that tells you beyond a shadow of a doubt it needs stopped. The only thing that stops you is cowardice. I am not a coward.

[Y.T.]

Charr, and you are any better? You are a vigilante on the same moral high ground as what Totem is speaking of. They hurt us, so I must hurt them back. Yes charr you can wave a big stick. You must be highly evolved to take that stick out and basically beat cripples to death.

Your whole, you wouldn’t understand why I am better than you rant is old. You say no one has the right to judge you, and yet you judge everyone else. You say you are better than us, because we do not think like you. You tell us you have a point, and words aren’t enough to explain the point, and then you act like a child who found daddies gun. You are only proving to the world how wrong you are.

[Charr]

Like me, Pidgeon?

Do you mean the part of you that starts focus groups, carefully constructs rationalizations to justify the decision already made while generally weeping for anyone that will tolerate the hypocrisy? No that part is nothing like me. That part still believes in fairy tales, action heroes and everything the chimps pumped into the Res on Saturday mornings.

That fraying mask you cling to is nothing like me at all. But one day - soon - it will be worn to nothing and then we'll see.

[Y.T.]

You kill those that bother you. You think killing small a part of a spect of fanacits will stop other from doing what you think is wrong. You are a bad COI|MIC vilein. Your MO is cliché. There is nothing proper about your propaganda. You want to stop baselines from killing novas, do it whole-heartedly, and stop pussy footing.

Blah ...Teras is right.... I am hollier than thou...Blah I can judge others....Blah... Don't judge me... blah... Mal is God.

[Charr]

Speaking of fucked up novas...

Whitey I'm pretty sure its spelled 'villain' not 'vilein'. Unless you really meant to use the word for a class of feudal serfs. Glad I could help you on that. Years of taking a mouthful of monkey splooge for a dollar and you still haven't figured out their lingo?

Heh.

[Y.T.]

No, it is called a mistake. People do that from time time.Like your parents didn't have an abortion. But that is your problem, you want others to have perfect cases when they try to prove a point,and yet you fly off the hook when someone points out the huge holes in your logic.

You do not defend your view points, you attack the character of those that disagree with you.You are not a villain, your a lawyer. You are not only human, you are more human than a baseline could ever be.

[Wakinyan]

You ever stop to think Charr that maybe there is something called right and wrong and if we consider that the line no longer exists for us we are just condeming ourselves?

I have pondered that there is not right or wrong. In the end I hope the distinctions are made otherwise all of this is truly pointless.

[ronin]

"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

.Edmund Burke

Totem, brother, you're a nova after my own stone little heart. You sure you don't want to be my girl?

By the way, love your new .sig file. I used to use the song 'Man In Black' to explain myself for the better part of my teens into early adulthood.

[Charr]

Well I was pretty sure it was a mistake too, Whitey. Even on the Whitey scale of "what the fuck does that mean," Feudal serf didn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. And of course it was you we were talking about so mistake was definitely the way to go.

Pidgeon yes, I did stop to think about that along the way. Then I look into it - seriously - instead of just assuming grandpa knew best and found out it was a crock of shit.

Kick it into high gear, feather-brain. I'm getting tired of carrying your conflicted ass.

[Zed]

You know, if you're going to make fun of people's spelling you could at least spell PIGEON right.

[Y.T.]

Zed, stop pointing out how he condemns others for what he does freely.

[Hugin]

Totem, you and Dr. Troll have been moving around something very significant. I hope you don't give in quite so easily.

[Charr]

Hey! That's how we spelled it back on primate free Zurkonite! Well, actually its a loose translation based on the ancient language of tentacle wiggles.

Relax Prodigy. That dysfunctional duo couldn't find their nodes without the sticker on the inside of their skull.

[ronin]

That may be, Charr, regarding Totem and Troll, though I'm sure you're just talking shit for the sake of bravado. You probably recognize what a threat two such angry and powerful novas would pose. You can't be that self-deluded and ignorant.

Here's an idea; How'd you like to do the Rodney with me, Charr?

I mean, really, you haven't bothered to explain yourself insofar as I know (make a note, elder god, this is my formal bid), and this whole debacle is getting kind of tiresome. Put up or shut up, will you?

[Charr]

OOoooooo... Can I have your autograph, bitch?

Actually I'm talking shit for the sake of talking shit. Look carefully over Whitey's missive, reference it to anything or everything I've ever said and then ask yourself what one (he said) has to do with the other (she said). The answer for the novas at home is; not a goddamn thing. She just comes up with this shit and then I'm suppose to answer her delirium induced ravings? Fuck that. More pleasurable to make fun of her until she pulls her head out of her skinny little ass or goes home to sulk and blow more zips for a dollar. I'm good with with it either way and get to practice some of my best material until I get that guest shot on Zed's show. He's just quibbling over the requirement for all the Japanese school girls anyway.

Troll is more afraid of how much he got off on the carnage back in the day. Not that he isn't a BIG box of rocks, but the one thing he stays firmly the fuck away from is talking about how much fun it was to take some zip's head in his clone-retarded hand and then crush it. Sure, he's more than that but until he stops avoiding that side of himself like the plague what the fuck does he have to say that isn't a half-truth?

Then there's Totem... Good fucking god what a screwed up nova this is! I don't think he actually gives a shit about me other than parroting the opinions of the BSBA novas trying to keep him on their side of the fence - EXCEPT - for the fact he grasps me just a little too easily to feel comfortable knowing I'm around. Easier to bitch about me than look in his own skull.

I'm okay with you in general since I get the difference between being Terat and being Teragen, which escapes most of these morons, but if you wanna have some fun you know how to find me. You're definitely more interesting than that silly fuck Henry ever was. I mean be honest; what was his problem other than wanting to be Batman when Superman was actually his style? Conflicted as the day is long but otherwise pretty harmless unless you got him out of comic book mode and then he could get some shit done. Memorable when it happened but pretty rare.

Explanations are available on request, just ask your questions. Of any of these halfwits, you'll be the first to ask. Oh, they bitch and moan but just like they won't do a goddamn thing to stop any of the twisted shit that goes on they don't spend a single tick figuring out the truth.

No, I don't bother to explain but why would I? GMC and V already get it even if we don't agree, the Codex's are pretty rare and still pussyfooting around the "here there be monsters" symbol burned in their brains and most of the rest are half wits. I'm not here for converts and and think it works better with the morons o the other side of the fence.

Still, if you want to know then ask. I can't wait to find out if you're one of the halfwits or not. By the way; have you gotten to tap that shit or is she still being coy? I'm telling you, they dig the tentacles. Its a cultural thing.

[ronin]

Alright, Charr.

For starters, sure, man, you can have my autograph. I hear it fetches nicely on eBay. What do I get to sign?

There's a saying they have in Australia, Charr. When you agree with somebody, it is the norm not to say "Yeah", or "I agree". You say "You're not wrong." Which is kind of clever, when you get right down to it. How non-committal is that? You don't even have to actually agree. It's almost like agreeing, but still somehow not. You leave that window open for them still not being right.

I bring this up, because, well, regarding Troll and Totem, this is only my opinion, and, I'm sorry guys, but the Cthuloid monstrosity? He's not wrong.

Anyhow, Charr, since you so nicely offered, yes, I believe I will take you up on that invitation. Let's begin, shall we?

Okay, so let's see. You kill a shitload of baselines. Now, even if you have a low regard for baseline life -- and that's an assumption I'm making based upon the evidence at hand, correct me if I'm wrong -- what would compel you to take such an action? The circumstances involved in this issue encompass you not bothering to explain yourself, not make any attempt to rationalize your actions, show you remorse or even grim determination in your action and have offered us no clue to your motivations, ruling out wanton slaughter and tweaking the nose of another nova you just think is a prick.

All that in mind, why? Why did you do it at all? Why them? Why then? To what end? For what purpose? Why not explain yourself? Why not make a statement? Why revel in your work so? Why such contempt for the life of people who were, I assume, other than being likely as insipid as any baseline, innocent?

There you go, Charr. I'm sure I'll think of more later.

And by the way, I'm sure Avenger appreciates your acclaim, as backhanded as it was. Personally, I was quite a fan of his work. A shame he's inactive or dead or whatever the hell it is these days. If I see him, I'll pass it on.

[Zed]

Translation: He's a jerk. Deal with it and move on.

[Wakinyan]

Well thanks a fucking lot Ronin. It is so comforting that others think I am deluding myself and I am secretly Charr's furry twin brother.

Just because I look like a monster doesn't make me one. There is a big difference. I CHOOSE not to be I fight it everyday. What good would it do for their to be a ravaging monster terrorizing America's heartland? I AM NOT A FUCKIN MONSTER!

Great. Now I need another keyboard thanks a lot.

[ronin]

Totem, my man, the fact that you're getting as upset about this is proof enough that Charr's got your number. The fact that you fight that impulse is admirable, and no, I for one do not want to see you give in to your more bestial urges and start sacking America's breadbasket. But he's right. You struggle with a demon inside you, an impulse that you cannot deny wants to be loosed. That you maintain as well as you do is a credit to you. I don't think you're deluding yourself, Totem. I think you're fighting your natural inclination to be a beast.

But you want my honest opinion? Yes. I think part of what you hate so much about Charr is fear of a potential reflection of yourself. You know I'm not wrong.

I work differently. I know I'm not like Charr, and I don't give a good goddamn what anyone else thinks, Sakurako and a few others excluded. If I decided that Charr needed to go -- and I don't mean to be rude, Charr, because even if I do decide to kill you, I'll be polite about it -- I wouldn't get all weepy and indignant about it. I'd go fucking kill him. And then have a sandwich.

[Great Monster C]

I could never approve of any vigilante justice Mr. Totem. Despite the fact that he's an unrepentant murderer, Charr does deserve the protection of the law. Not through any virtue he possesses, but because we have chosen to remain in baseline society. You with your people, Officer Preston as a member of law enforcement, Dr. Troll as Utopian employee and so on and so on. If we make these choices it isn't like a buffet. You don't get to chose all of the bright and shiny aspects. You have to take the not so fun stuff too, like extending the protection of the law unto those you despise. It isn't really a lawful society if you don't extend it's protections to all, even to those who have rejected your laws.

[Charr]

Well, screw you too GMC. Tell me again about calming red faced Senators and how you've chosen to remain in zip tribal proper.

Ronin, you're a righteous Terat even if no one else knows what the fuck that means. I'll be there for you too when you need killing.

On the move right now with some business but I'll be back shortly and we'll talk.

[Y.T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by Charr:
Still locked away is your little fantasies of good and evil, "Pidgeon"? Christ but this place is attracting some really fucked up novas.

Looking back at your own words,and actions. Can you truly tell me that you do not belive in good or evil: Right or wrong? You Kill baselines that kill novas. you seek out your justice for something they did. You go out of your way to stop them from acting out their free will. You either do not see what they do is wrong, or are so narrow minded as to not see how that is the only answer for your actions.

[Charr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
Can you truly tell me that you do not belive in good or evil: Right or wrong?

Riiiiight. Which is it Princess Halfwit; good and evil or right and wrong? Make up your damn mind psycho or resist the temptation to share. So wonderful you find yourself satisfied but I think I'll still volley for those asking politely and not sharing your fever deliriums.

Ronin I didn't kill a shitload, a thimble full or a baker's dozen. Twisted little fuckers managed that all on their own. I admit it was pretty funny and a little educational to watch though. One even managed to lower the bar of twisted expectation and given my insight into their pathetic little spirits that's really saying something. To keep it on topic, I was there for something else but the floor show was a giggle and a nice benefit for a couple of reasons.

"Low regard" is a relative thing but it sounds accurate enough to me. One on one, the majority of the chimps rate right up there next to whales in my book. Whales, goldfish, ants, kitties and other assorted nuisances. Do you go out of your way to stomp every ant you see? Do you nuke the neighborhood because there's a roach around? Or do you deal with the problem and get on with what you need to be doing.

I don't understand why GMC find the little bastards so fascinating. Doubt he has much insight into their real nature so he's probably more fascinated with the idea of what he thinks they are than what they can really manage at this stage. Aw what the fuck, one nova's wack off material is another nova's lunch and all that.

Explanations to this crew are fucking pointless unless you have an ulterior motive so what do I care what they and their feared little monkey empire thinks. If the chimps could take me down today they would and its got nothing to do with who did what to who.

[Zed]

Quote:

Originally posted by Charr:
I'm good with with it either way and get to practice some of my best material until I get that guest shot on Zed's show.

I can see it now. Zed vs. The Loch Ness Nova. How's your Sean Connery impression?

[Y.T.]

Good and evil or right and wrong.They are the same thing, some people see them as different. Like you see killing baselines who did harm to novas different from someone killing a nova for killing baselines. You promote and actively act in one,and condemn and actively try to stop the other. You seemingly draw your morals from a deep lack of ethics,and the need to jack off.

[ronin]

Great Monster C.

The "law" you vaunt so highly is the artificial construct of a society which has existed for a comparative handful of years. The fact that we're the newest and the biggest doesn't mean we're the best or the wisest. Civilizations have existed historically and elsewhere that functioned much better than ours could ever aspire to.

The laws that we have erected to protect ourselves were initially a means of codifying certain universal rules, rules that would attempt to ensure the safety, security and longevity of everyone in the tribe. But even when we created those laws, they only existed to police and to aid our own tribe. People outside the community, outside our tribe, were always fair game for atrocity. They still are. Countries wage war on each other constantly. Killing and bloodshed is written into our very genes, every one. And when these atrocities happen, we write it off by demonizing the enemy, or by turning our heads and accepting the horror as the price of waging war.

Your laws are a farce, Great Monster C. They are no more real or absolute than the laws of Crete, or of Rome, or of Edo. Empires fall, and their values, their codes, their taboos fall with them.

The only authority is yourself.

Charr.

Alright, I'll bite. You don't want to play show and tell? Fine. We'll discuss the matter in private.

I have had certain suspicions about this matter for awhile. Regrettably, I could not witness it, nor could I find video evidence to substantiate my notion. I should have known better than to apply Occam's Razor to a situation of this magnitude. If I was wrong, I apologize.

[Great Monster C]

ronin- I respectfully disagree. Initially yes, laws were very basic concepts and only applicable to our own tribe. But as we have evolvled as a society we chose to place the law on a higher pedestel than that. We believe in the law as an important concept, worthy of respect. In doing so we must hold ourselves to it, even in regards to outsiders. I was speaking to those of us who have chosen to adhere to the law. While I abhor Charr and don't pretend to understand you, I still respect myself enough to hold myself to obeying the laws of the society I chose to remain with. I would hope Officer Preston and Dr. Troll also respect themselves and their adherence to society and law enough to also afford those like Charr the protection of those laws even though we find it distasteful. Our society says the law is offered to all, we have chosen to remain in that society and with that choice comes responsibility. We cannot claim moral high ground and not act on it.

Charr, it is the potential in children I find fascinating. The potential to be better than what we are now.

[Sakurako Hino]

ronin, there is something you've forgotten. And it's forgivable.

Laws aren't just written on paper and stored away. They are the common codes of conduct society creates to make sure everything doesn't fall into chaos.

I know we've tread over this territory before by debating freedom, but in all truth, in order to truely be able to reach greater heights a society must have a set of rules and laws it goes by to succeed. A few so that it doesn't choke off the people, but enough to stave off anarchy.

If I went to your house, ronin, would I not be under the standards you place before your guests?

While some of you guys who like a "no rules" lifestyle, there sure are a lot you still go by.

[Charr]

Whitey: Awwww... whatever did I say to make you so stupidly defensive? Please share so I can say it again. I figure with enough pressure we'll hear the pop as your sphinctor tightens enough to shoot your head out of your ass.

And no, you've dropped the ball again. Get your philosophic shit together or go back to gang banging marines for a drink.

Zed: Who?

This transparent ploy won't work. I stand firm on 200 hundred japanese school girls with authentic uniforms. Shit, it can't be that hard to arrange. I get hundreds of violate-me-please-O-dark-god-of-quantum-that-I-might-bear-your-terrible-pleasure requests a month. And that's not even counting Codex and the other Yoo-pee honeys looking for some hard and gritty.

Ronin: received and sent. I got no problem with sharing but I don't need to listen to another bout of Whitey puking her node on the keyboard trying for a coherent thought. They don't give a shit, lots of your questions aren't relevant now that you know I didn't play twist top for shits and grins and it wasn't all about a useless car salesman like Prestor John Boy.That last was just a perk.

GMC; your thoughts on law are very touching. A complete crock of shit if only because you're depending on the zips to hold up their end of it. Don't see we have a conflict though, not nova to nova anyway. The zips you're apparently concerned with aren't likely to merit my tender ministrations.

Hino: you're missing the proper point. GMC is touting monkey tribal shit and you're quoting nova/nova. If you go into Ronin's crib for playtime you're interacting with a nova as a nova.

[Sakurako Hino]

That's true. But my point is that we all operate under some form of rules and laws to our life.

I know there are some Nova/Nova "unwritten laws" in various facets of our society, and there are of course those lovable human/human laws. But as of yet, I have not seen any Human/Nova laws written by either side.

For all I know, in some areas, we have full reign because no one could stop us. Well, no one but our concience, and mine has me on a tight curfew.

But, if I felt an injustice was done, on any side by any side, I may feel compelled to act. Just as I would willingly come to someone's aid to save a life.

Of course, this ethic is not perfect, it doesn't allow for psychology to come into the field. As it did a while ago.

But I do feel that if such a situation took place, yes, I would take the law into my own hands for the greater good. But only if it served the geater good.

I know a girl scout like me gets under your suckers, Charr, but, I'm not intending it this time. I just feel my powers give me a responsibility and a duty. I've chosen to defend and preserve life.

Notice I didn't say Baseline nor Nova. Just life. And don't split hairs about food animals or plants. I won't stop a lion from getting a well-earned meal. I just won't allow a bunch of cultists feast on a Nova to "gain their power".

You dig?

[Singularity]

Here's a question for the resident Teragen: I understand your organization believes in trying to make a nova-based society or even a nova only society. Society is built on rules, laws, and morays. Since we are talking about justice, what laws do you all believe are the nova society should have? One would hope eight years after the Null Manifesto was released that at least a basic foundation could be stated. Maybe even something, forgive the source, as simple as "Thou shalt not kill?"