opnet [OpNet] Right, and wrong?

[Vox Via]

Who am i to judge what others do as right or wrong?

We live in a world that is full of grey.No one is good,and no one is evil. Everyone one has points of that are vitruous and everyone has flaws.No one is prefect.This what we must understand before we judge.

Now, looking back into the past, i ask you this. Is a man from a few hundred years ago wrong for thinking women are not his equal?Is a Pope from 600 Ad wrong in having sex? Are morals based on the attitudes of the time?Or are they set in the modren time judgement,and are rertoactive?Maybe they are some abstract set of ideals that should remain true threw out the ages? The problem is I do not know.

I know if we are to judge people based on when they lived,and what they knew, we can forgive a great deal of the horrid acts of the past.

I know if judge the people of the past by what we think is right,now.We will live in a world where no one is right,and everyone is wrong.Or at least large part of the world.We can easily blame those before use on their short commings.It is hard to say why we should respect them,knowing what we know now. Also, who is to say we are not barbaric by the moral laws of those 500 year from now.

If morals are abstract,and true threw out all time, would someone tell me what is right and wrong?

So,I ask you this. What is right and what is wrong? Can anyone show me anything that is obejectively right or wrong?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

You have already deconstructed both of their meanings, so I doubt it.

[Vox Via]

Then, you tell me what you think is right and wrong. Troll, I have all the time in the world.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I'll do better.

You asked "who am I to judge?"

The answer is, you have the power, so you have the responsibility. Try not to mess it up too badly.

You are expected to try, and try your best. The results won't be perfect, but if you work at it they should be better than not trying at all.

[Interceptor]

I don't have any kind of answer. However I have noticed a trend in society, and that trend is acceptance and tolerance. While I think those are decent qualities, at the same time some people make the mistake IMO of thinking that being nonjudgemental is also a virtue. I don't think that it is. You can't take everyone else's values into account when making a decision. If you have time you might try, but still some decisions should be easy. Talking to someone that is an admitted cannibal for example. They might be able to talk a good game about why they did it. That still doesn't mean you should just accept it.

Like I said, this isn't an answer. It's fine to be open minded, but being open minded to the point of not having any judgemental values is foolish. Jesus I think said that the road to virtue or grace is narrow and hard to navigate. The road to destruction and ruin is wide and well paved. Or something like that. I try not to worry too much about these things, I think about how I was raised and stuff when I have questions like this.

[Neil Preston]

Interceptor is right. We have become a more open and accepting society. We need to keep that going and to fight against intolerance of all kinds. Good things just don't happen. Good people must work at it.

[Interceptor]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil Preston:
Interceptor is right. We have become a more open and accepting society. We need to keep that going and to fight against intolerance of all kinds. Good things just don't happen. Good people must work at it.

Well I think you missed part of my point. I don't think being completely nonjudgemental is either a virtue or natural. The slipping away of moral values is not a good thing, but it is a product of being nonjudgemental. Some good things have happened. African Americans have been able to advance in scoeity if they choose without enforced restrictions on them, and then later with society frowning on overt or subtle racism towards them. However some things have come with this that I think are not good. The over sexing of America and the world in general is part of it. Have you seen the clothes sold to children? The music they listen to, the TV and Opnet shows they have? Frank discussions of sex and sexuality, even techniques at the jr. high or younger grad levels? That's not progress IMO, that's our values being eroded away and being replaced with...nothing. In theory, soon no one will have an opinion on anything. Rape won't be a crime, and racism won't be bad. Do you see what I'm saying?

By trying to be nonjudgemental we lose all of our values, and we all become a victim to antoher's whims. I don't know. I'm a bit of a tradionalist I guess.

I agree with what you said about good people. But good people do judge and judge properly all the time. Or at any rate they need to.

[Preston]

Interceptor, the rape charge will be around, trust me. In the past thirty years it has become much easier to convict someone of rape due to both stronger laws and more sympathetic juries.

Moral laxity it a funny thing. It is the siren call of every previous generation. To listen to my great-grandfather talk, we should have been swallowed up by Lucifer in 1970.

As for some of the other things you have mentioned, I suggest strong parenting. Teach your kids well, and trust in them to come to you in times of confusion or crisis. Show them strength of convictions and they will not let you down.

[Wakinyan]

Preston I think you are a good and honest man. However you are screaming at the wind here with some. Please don't burn yourself out by slamming your head against the brick wall of anarchy that the most Novas would rather have our world involved in.

[Jager]

Vanguard, if you want to personally take on the elite profession, be my guest. Were do I send the flowers?

My money is on Very Bad.

He had better get syndication rights to the footage, or you are going to find out what Very Bad really means.

On the otherhand, nice obfuscation of the issue. I mean, Doc's rampage is a dead issue, while Charr's is fresh on the burner.

Let's not look at those evil club goers, who dared pretend that they were novas.

Pity those poor souls who were forced to work in a DRUG FACTORY.

What else can I say?

DEATH to those greedy capitalist swine!

MOURN those pathetic peons who sold death to others, for a slight increase in the local pay scale.

FEEL for those impoverished Cartel lords who lost a whole two days production from one of a dozen factories.

OH Yeah, Vanguard. I got your perspective on this one.

[Vox Via]

Jager, you are blind as ever.I do not seek to justify Charr's actions,here. I seek to see if anyone can tell me what is right and what is wrong.

I seek this because until a day comes and we know what is right or wrong,and how to judge actions by these ideals,then we can't form a government worth the paper or name you give it.

[Jager]

Vanguard, stop infringing on Juri's pet name for me.

To me, right and wrong is subjective.

If I kill someone it is right. They had it coming.

If someone tries to kill me, they are wrong. I know this absolutely.

Of course, I will hazard a guess that while there are strong questions about the actions of Doc Troll, and who is responsible,

there are even stronger beliefs on the negativity of what Charr did.

It sits right up there with twisting the heads off kittens just to hear their necks pop,

drowning puppies to just to see the pattern of bubbles that come up,

and dousing a nursery with acid, just to hear the wailing of the infants.

Vanguard, dude, you have already made up your mind and good for you. Stop pretending that you actually want anyone to tell you the difference between right and wrong.

[Vox Via]

And is it wrong to talk over ideals among those with the ability to reason things out?

Sometimes the answer is not the goal, my dear bother. Sometimes the question is really the end, thinking about it sometimes brings more change than the answer ever will.

And what name is Juri's pet name for you?

[Jager]

And is it wrong to talk over ideals among those with the ability to reason things out?

And, if that was all you were doing, this would be a good question.

[ronin]

I'm glad to see you make such a good father, Preston. How would you feel, though, if your son didn't live up to the strength of your convictions? Or didn't share them at all? Would that particularly trouble you?

[Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Vanguard, if you want to personally take on the elite profession, be my guest. Were do I send the flowers?

My money is on Very Bad.
He had better get syndication rights to the footage, or you are going to find out what Very Bad really means.

Someone wants to take on the Elites as a whole?

Hmmm, go on a mission for a little while and people get stupid on me.

[ronin]

Really. Really. Stupid.

[Bedlam]

If I may venture, Vanguard, Jager is correct in that right and wrong are subjective concepts. There is no "universal" definition for either, but if you're looking to determine weather a course of action is right or wrong, you have to prioritize your interests. What is important to you? Who will your actions affect in a positive way? Who will your actions affect in a negative way? And how do they measure up to each other on your list of priorities? As far as drawing up a government goes, that depends on the people. There are many different cultures on this planet, and no single government should be allowed to rule them all.