opnet [OpNet] What is an Elite?

[Jager]

I am curious as to what people (both those inside and outside the trade) think an elite is.

Do you make a distincition between "combat" elites, and those that fullfill other functions?

What effect do you feel they have had on society?

btw, I generally use Elite (big E) for DVNTS elites. I describe other elites with a little 'e'. This is probably because I'm a DVNTS alumnus.

[BlackStar]

Well, old friend, then in your book I´m an elite with a little "e", . No problem, I don´t like the philosophy of DVNTS elites in general. And there are a lot of missions for us apart of combat ones. Even De Vries recognize that.

[Vincent Carver]

I tend to agree with you Jager. The term "Elite" was first used as a term of companionship and brotherhood between those warriors who served with DeVries (Specifically DVNTS). The term has spread to a more general use due to media saturation and seems to refer to any Nova who sells their services for a military (or at least combatative) purpose.

I tend to see "elites" (small or big E; take your pick) as those Novas who sell their services for violent purpose. Whether that purpose be flat-out combat, assasssination, arms/armor supply or military tactical advice. I suppose in some circumstances I'd have to consider myself an elite in that regard.

[Wakinyan]

I always think of the NonCombat Novas who work for Devries and others as 'Specialized Contractors' but I guess that isn't as cool as saying Elite.

[Juri 'Salamander' McClendon]

I gotta admit that elite makes me think of hired guns, too. Doesn't matter if it got a capital E.

[Ghostwriter]

I would have to agree with Salamander, though I confess I have a rather jaundiced opinion of Elites, especially DeVries ones.

[Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely]

An Elite is a professional warrior employed by DVNTS. We are those who were born to it. In the heat of battle we are revealed and we try to renew again the sense of honor and glory on the battlefield.

Yes, some of us kill. Yes, I have killed. This is the nature of armed conflict and to pretend otherwise is to blind yourself.

We are not murderers, we are not kill crazed monsters. Yes, there are some who call themselves Elite that have these flaws. They lie to themselves and the world.

[Singularity]

Typically, I think of elites (and I am/was an Elite) as hired soldiers. I do understand the use of the term for non-combative, contracted novas but I feel it is an inaccurate use of the word.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely: An Elite is a professional warrior employed by DVNTS.

This is true. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is a different question.

Quote:

We are those who were born to it. In the heat of battle we are revealed and we try to renew again the sense of honor and glory on the battlefield.

Now you are deep into marketing bs.


RE: Impact on society.
Not good. Training novas to kill, and using them in wars, are probably not good things. In general I'm also not in favor of killing novas. There are other things we could and should be doing.

[Sakurako Hino]

Well here's a definition I found.

[font:trebuchet ms][size:4]Elite

Noun

1: Used to refer to Novas employed for use as Mercenaries in armed conflict. Can also refer to those used in roles where physicality is a possiblity.

2: A term used to describe someone who is the best in their field.

[font:courier new]Excerpted from NAgeDictionary.com

I think that definition is the best one out there.

[Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Now you are deep into marketing bs.

Dr. Smith, you and I did not make aquaintence while you were employed with Devries so you never got to know me. This being the case I find it inappropriate for you to insult me so considering that since we are not friends that friendly jocularity cannot be assumed. If you meant no jocularity and in fact intended to be insulting I would appreciate you refraining from do so in the future. Incivility is unecessary and unwelcome. Disagree if you like, I'll be happy to discuss, but try not to insult.

[Jager]

Okay.

In my day, there was a line drawn between the assassin, the soldier, and the killer.

The assassin was the loner whose assignment it is to kill an individual, or a small group of individuals (Target X, or Target X and his bodyguards). The assassin's purpose was to kill people.

The soldier was the guy (or gal) who working alone, or in teams, accomplished an objective. That objective could be to 'destroy' that battalion, or that nova, or that power plant. It didn't matter. It didn't matter if you disarmed the battalion, or incinerated them. Likewise, if you could convince the opposing nova to pack up and go home, that was fine. You removed them from combat, which was your objective.

Your killers could be either one of the above, but they really enjoyed it. So much, that it imperilled their objective.

The killer gets Target X, but stays to kill his staff, family, house guests, ect.

When sent to stop the battalion, they would hunt down and kill every single member, and anyone who got in the way.

Killers get alot of publicity because their actions can be so shocking. Some even revel in the fear they generate.

Your professional assassin tries to move about unnoticed. That's part of their job.

Your soldier does their job quickly and effeciently. Better life expectancy, you can work more contracts in a year, and more people are willing to work with you.

Now, all three of these types could consider themselves elites.

The assassin doesnt' touch a battlefield, but is the most dangerous ambush predator on the planet. They are elites because they don't miss.

The soldier rules the battlefields through skill and precision. They are elites because they are the last one left standing on the field.

The killer rules were he/she goes due to fear and reputation. They are the elites of mass graves and bodycounts.

[kestrel404]

Yes, there are definite distinctions between the above examples, as well as many shades of gray between them. And all of those types are wrapped up in the modern day usage of the term elite.

The question in my mind is, do we need the 'killer' type of elite? I will concede the need for both the soldier and the assassin, ignoring my idealistic side for the moment. But I see no added benefit from the killer type beyond what a soldier or assassin could do.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

David 'Dr. Troll' Smith: Now you are deep into marketing bs.

Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely: Dr. Smith...I find it inappropriate for you to insult me...

Oh, I'm quite serious and not trying to be insulting, nor am I accusing you of being a marketer. But I've read many similar statements from your marketing department, and I didn't believe it at the time and I don't now.

Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely: We are those who were born to it.

No one is born with those skills or that mind set, very few of us erupt with them. The various armies around the world have proven most people can be trained to kill. Elites are made, not born.

Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely: In the heat of battle we are revealed

Hopefully we get some training before the battle, and having a camera crew follow you around is generally pretty helpful for ratings.

Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely: we try to renew again the sense of honor and glory on the battlefield.

Glory I'll grant. Honor is a tougher sell. I realize that statement is a bit unfair applied to you. You are big, strong, tough, and don't mind dukeing it out with other elites and taking your lumps. You also don't mind taking masks rather than lives. You can and do practice your profession with more rules than most, your powers give you that choice.

But we aren't talking about you, we are talking about the profession. Last time I checked, the guy at the top of the ratings charts had a rep for being a merciless invisible ambush assassin.

RE: "a line drawn between the assassin, the soldier, and the killer"

Totentanz would be all three. As for do we "need" him, I'd like to say no, but considering how much money he gets I'd say the free market disagrees with me.

[Great Monster C]

Elites are killers and murderers. They don't kill for patriotism or defense, they kill for money and glory. They, and their employers help pump up violence and glorification of violence in our culture.

Yes, even those of you who try not to kill. Fine, you're beating people for money. That is so much better.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Monster C:
Elites are killers and murderers. They don't kill for patriotism or defense, they kill for money and glory. They, and their employers help pump up violence and glorification of violence in our culture.

Yes, even those of you who try not to kill. Fine, you're beating people for money. That is so much better.

Even to this day, I hear sage words come from one of my favorite childhood images. Seriously.

[ronin]

Sometimes, Jagermeister, I think that one of your abilities is the startling capacity to make anything overcomplicated.

[Y.T.]

I kill for money?I kill for glory?Do you really think I care about either of these things?I could get more money for simply being than I make for working. I do not pick the most glorious battles.Does that stop me from being an Elite?

Aren't those who fight for a flag murderers?What about those who kill for a cause?What if that cause is one they did not chose?What if that idea is one they share?Is killing in the name of some line on a map anymore just because you bow to it's flag?

I fight in causes that would otherwise fall silent.I change the world in ways no one else can. But, I am a villain as I do not bow down to your banner? Would I be a hero, if I fought for your banner?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Y.T.:I fight in causes that would otherwise fall silent. I change the world in ways no one else can.

I used to tell myself that. I was wrong.

[Great Monster C]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:

Quote:

Y.T.:I fight in causes that would otherwise fall silent. I change the world in ways no one else can.

I used to tell myself that. I was wrong.

But you've come around and now you're doing something postive and uplifting with your life. I for one thank you for turning around and offering children an example of how you don't have to take the easy road. You're powers lend themselves to violence and you've rejected that. Children notice these things. A few I've talked to have mentioned you specifically when speaking of people they admire.

[Jager]

GMC, as an Elite, I saved lives. Thousands of them. When you walk into a country in the midst of a civil war, and the "best" way they know of for conflict resolution entails killing every last man, woman, and child of the opposing tribe, there is an amazing capacity to do good.

The world isn't always a place of milk and cookies.

[Great Monster C]

Jager, we're novas. We should aim a little higher than beating people up to make them see things our way.

I've spent enough time arguing with congressmen, secrataries of education and what have you to have a pretty good idea of the realities of the world thank you very much.

[Preston]

I will keep my opinions of elites and the elite trade to myself on this occassion. One big spat with DeVries this decade seems to be enough.

[Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely]

Good idea Officer. There are some here who remember you, and not too fondly. Vile Bill was liked and respected.

And the Pollyanna in blue plush is being a little simplistic thank you very much.

[ronin]

"My mother always told me that violence doesn't solve anything."

"Really. I wonder what the city founders of Hiroshima would have to say about that."

"They wouldn't say anything. Hiroshima was destroyed."

"Correct. Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst!"

I always liked Heinlein more than the Children's Television Workship. No offense, GMC.

[Sakurako Hino]

*scratches chin*

You know, I've always subscribed to one fact that is quite true, at least through my experience.

Those that sow blood shall reap it.

It is in the nature of those that search for conflict to either create it, or get involved in it's creation. There are some who are natural born fighters. They seem to be unable to leave that destiny.

Perhaps it's a primal instinct, perhaps it's just a mental hiccup that lets that reptilian side of the brain take over.

In any case, there are some people who are just vicious bastards. There's no way around it.

Totentanz is an outright scary man. Through his mask he has seen gallons of blood spilled, yet he shows no remorse or shows any hesitation.

Lance Stryker is bold, brash, aggressive, and for lack of a better term, a bully.

Both of these people fit within the world of madness that is combat and war.

Some people got that edge. I sure as hell know I don't.

[ronin]

With deepest respect, Saku-chan, your truism -- and it is one I do not question -- sits quite nicely in the bellies of those who are violent. You tell them they'll sow what they reap, they say "Good". People who revel in violence often likewise desire an end in keeping with their life. A glorious death, if you will.

I take minor issue with your implication that all violence comes from the "reptilian" brain, however.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako Hino:
Some people got that edge. I sure as hell know I don't.

Never forget this: you do not want that edge. Ever.

[Jager]

Not everyone would agree with you, Frank.

In my experience, the edge is with you, or it isn't. There is not learning it.

[ronin]

What an utterly puerile statement, Franklin. Tell me something; could you actually feel the camera panning in for your close-up as you said that?

[DeathSquad]

Edge? As if any of you know what a true edge is.

All of you together are as about as sharp as a baseball bat. I could show you all so many ways to truly make a cut. Maybe I will show one of you soon enough.

[Jager]

Me! Me! Let it be me.

I just love people who show up, knowing all about the rest of the world, especially the people who frequent this area.

[Sakurako Hino]

Then ronin, you can say at the very least that when violence is applied, is is only after all logical methods of conflict resolution have broken down and the selfish desire to lord over a weaker takes hold. It's almost an off-shoot of the instinct of survival. Where controlling your situation physically ensures that you will survive.

I may have been off the mark, but the arrow lands close to it's target.

[April Rice]

Maybe violence can sometimes solve a problem, but it seems like anytime violence makes sense, it's because the situation is already violent. It's like, if two kids are cussing at each other, and one of them hits the other, it makes sense for the other to hit back. That doesn't mean that the first punch was a good idea.

[Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely]

April, if you have ten individuals living together devoted to the idea and practice of non-violence you have ten people living in paradise. If you have nine individuals living together devoted to the idea and practice of non-violence and one individual who could give a rat's ass you have nine victims and someone wielding power.

[ronin]

I would agree to that, Sakurako, though I would not go so far as to say that the only practical or just application of violence is as a "last resort", when all other means of conflict resolution have been exhausted. For example, in keeping with your instinctual analogy, some members of our metaphorical pack are fucking dangerous and need to be put down for the good of the whole. Certain people can't be "rehabilitated", and even if they could, there is also something to be said for just accountability. I have known novas who could "fix" deranged serial killers, but just because you can remove that black spot on their brain that tells them that killing innocent people is acceptable behavior, it doesn't make the dozen people he killed any less dead and it doesn't make his actions "okay". Even if you can fix a person like that, it presents the ethical question as to whether you should. It's easy to say that we should try and save everyone we can no matter how horrible the crimes, but try telling that to the friends and families of the victims. I'm sorry to be the villain, but some people have got to go.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by ronin:
What an utterly puerile statement, Franklin. Tell me something; could you actually feel the camera panning in for your close-up as you said that?

If you think I am that narcissistic, ronin, then you have a lot to learn.

[ronin]

Narcissistic, Franklin? No, man. Dare to have a sense of humor about yourself. The statement in reference just smacked slightly of drama-slut. You sounded like fucking Yoda for a second. Maybe next you can warn Sakurako about the dangers of the Dark Side.

Anyway, your own personal opinion aside, I myself have no inner turmoil about having that 'Edge'.

What is it with you people and your aversion to violence?

[Hugin]

Well, speaking as a relatively peaceful man, Ronin, I believe that they may express disdain for violence out of fear. Fear of what a truly violent Nova can achieve.

[Ghostwriter]

Having my best friend die in my arms gave me that aversion, Very Bad. Tell your colleague Pursuer I hope he rots in hell.