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[OpNet] I hate death,and killing.


Delicious

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See, I am not going ot try to preach to people who do not wnat to hear what I have to say.

but here it is I am sick of people trying to kill each other. I am right now helping a form Elite get over mental problems cause by war.He "snaped".He was in the feild too long.Now wile being with him sickens me, I still can't help but want to help him.

I mean he used to be a good person, but well from wha tI can gather from his thoughts. He started off doing clean work as he calls it.You know no killing and little hurting, but slowly his view changed, and well to make a long story short he was taking poor wet work, when he snapped.

Now he just stare,and the wall saying names.these names at frist did not make sence, but he in the line of his workgot the names of everyoone he killed, and those who could nto get the real names of he named them himself.But back to my point, killing people has destoried this man's life.

Now, I have to help him. I mean he needs help, but the sad part is that after I help him, he is going ot be locked awya from the rest of his life. So I think why should I help him..But when ever I look into his mind I know that the pain in him is far wrose than any jail.

Anyways.. I think I can some how make his life easier..But I do not knwo if it is the right thing to do. Would it be a moral thing to to help this man, and then make it so that he would find reading book to be some how as rewarding as being rich?

I knwo I am sounding like a sap.Here I am worring about how a man who killed countless people, is going to spend the rest of his life. But I think he has suffered enough.

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Death is never pleasant, but in time you come to realize that it's a part of life. You're not trying to help a man who has seen too much death. You are helping a ruthless killer.

No, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the man, I choose to save my sympathy for his victims and their relatives.

As far as I'm concerned the man deserves to live with his guilty conscience and the mental illnesses they have caused.

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But here is the problem, he is going to spend the rest of his life in a hole. I think theya re making a Cell for him. He killed a VIP from the US, so that is who is going to lock him up.His lawyer got him life.

but I am left with this, I do nto have to help anymore than to make him sane enough to tril, and such.

So I am left with this, should I let the man live in a life of joy when he ended so many lives?

Or should I let him suffer, knowing that that will nto bring the people back that he killed?

Me as a human would not want anyone to live threw either sides of that problem.the families or him. But in an odd way if he is happy he will be less of a threat to people. But as I said I just don't know what one to do.

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Who sent you into this situation, anyway?

What were you brought in to do? I mean, are you there to repair his mind, or rebuild it?

For that matter, who did he kill and for whom?

For that matter, has he had a trial yet? You mention a life sentance, but how could that be if he hasn't been tried?

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He pleaded to to it, and took life. HE killed countless people.that much is clear.

An Preston, I work for Utopia.Witch i knwo you love and hold dear.

As for why I was called in, it is simple, I am said to have gentle hand.I can help heal th emind of others.

I was brought in to heal him to be sane enough to no longer be a threat to himself or others, and to be legally sane.No mental ward in the Us could hold him.

As the VIP he killed, it was a bress Comodont Jessy Doors. Former comander of USS Armstrong.

But back to my point, it is more of a moral stand point here. Do I let t a man suffer, do I tell people that teh killer of their family is in a happy dream land..It is hard to chose.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Delicious:
But back to my point, it is more of a moral stand point here. Do I let t a man suffer, do I tell people that teh killer of their family is in a happy dream land..It is hard to chose.
Whether he's punished or rehabilitated nothing is going to bring anyone back.

If you're looking for advice on the later then I wouldn't recommend sending him into a happy dream land, that sounds like the mind bending equivalant of a lobotomy. I must admit though that I have no experience looking into human minds. The communication I have with plants and animals seems to come close to your talents but I can't claim any great wisdom in that respect.
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Death and killing are all part of life girlie. There's no avoiding it. I don't really like killing either, but that don't mean I ain't willing to shiv someone if it means protecting me and mine, you know what I'm saying?

As for your little mass murderer, I say you leave him as is. Sounds like he knew what he was getting into when he started killing so he shouldn't be set free of the guilt now that he's crossed way over the line.

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Dee... From what you say, your thinking you can help him. But he ain't some accident victim in the middle of the road to make choices for. That you can help him don't mean near as much as whether he wants you to help him. Help ain't something you force on folks. Your either doing it for them or your doing it for youself.

And screw the people that brought you into this. Your there now and what they want ain't important any more. There's only two opinions that mean anything right now - his and yours. Whether he wants your help and whether your willing to give it. Ain't nobody else involved no matter they tell you or how much they want you to think they are.

Does he want your help? And are you willing to give it?

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Cody, seeing as how we don't have the whole story here, the wants and wishes of the people who brought her in are relevant. I am not saying that she should follow orders, but that we should know what those orders are before we give any more advice on the matter.

I mean, did the man confess with the condition he would be mentally rehabilitated?

Is there information in his head that could save lives?

Is there information in his head that certain people want destroyed?

Cody, I could be wrong, but you seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to authority. The Man isn't always out to keep you down or control you. Sometimes he is there to help.

Delicious, contrary to what you might think, I have very few problems with Utopia. Those few problems are big ones, to me, but I also regard Utopia as an entity that has done the world alot of good over the years.

Brother X, do you have experience with killers? Do you differentiate between those who like, or want, to kill from those who are just good at it?

Do you know this man's history?

For that matter, do you like sitting in judgement of others?

You are prepared to judge and condemn this man without knowing anything but the barest facts. It is a big step for anyone to take.

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Captain Preston, it ain't authority I got a problem with. It's being responsible and people that ain't but pretend they are. I got a special dislike for finger pointers and liars.

Dee didn't ask if this was justice. She asked if she should do it - if it was right to help him. Well there's a ton of things we don't know. Probably more than a couple that we're never going to know. But we know three things - he's fucked up, Dee can talk with him and she think she can help him. So in my mind all that's left is whether he wants her help or not.

I remember a story I heard in school. There was a doctor that a man with a broken leg came to see in the middle of the night. Doctor could help and the man wanted help. Turns out later that man was named Booth and he broke his leg jumping from a balcony after shooting President Lincoln. Lots of things was said and done but did any of it change the facts? The Doctor had himself a responsiblity to help the man with the broken leg.

I don't know if what's happened before with this elite is good or bad. Or what's going to happen to him after Dee is done. I don't even know whats going to happen to Dee when she does what she can do. But I believe none of that is important to the question she asked. All that matters is if he wants her help and if she wants to give it.

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As for what my job is.I was given varry big leeway of what I should and could do.Now, my orders were to make him sane enough to stay in prison built and main tained by the US.

That is it. i mean if he were to be handed over to Utopia it would not be my problem, ror at least it would nto be the same problem. i am going to think about this.

Thank you Walker, and the rest fo you. i am going to sleep on this and hope that I will do what is is right.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Preston:
Brother X, do you have experience with killers? Do you differentiate between those who like, or want, to kill from those who are just good at it?
Do you know this man's history?
For that matter, do you like sitting in judgement of others?
You are prepared to judge and condemn this man without knowing anything but the barest facts. It is a big step for anyone to take.
Yup, I know killers, I've lived with people who've had to be ready to defend their own lives with lethal intent at the drop of a hat and I've worked with people who kill professionally. I understand the difference between self defence and premeditated murder well; that's why I walked away from the whole Elite deal.

Do I judge people? Don't we all? Am I being unfair in condemming this guy to suffer in a situation and emotional state of his own making? Maybe, but that's how I feel. The guy made his choices, he chose to do wet work according to Dee here, and now he's gotta live with those consequences.
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Yes. Without a doubt. I have been down that road and I am not a creature of vengeance, Brother X.

When my long-time partner was killed and I became a nova, I was filled with hate and I wanted revenge. When the opportunity presented itself, I discovered that I wouldn't let that monster take away my self-respect. If I had murdered him, I would have lost that.

I can hate and be a mean, petty bastard. I don't pretend to be perfect. What I don't forget is to listen to the better nature of my soul when it counts.

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Hey I didn't say Dee should kill the guy, just let him live with the consequences of his own making. What if Dee fixed this guys mind-state, made him all better? So he's basically given an emotional "Get out of jail free" card as is ready to start all over again? Fuck no. Let him be screwed up and have to fix himself the hard way.

Maybe he'll figure out a few things out on the way back and maybe he'll remain in the loony bin for all eternity, either way it seems like a more "Just" solution to me.

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Hello, Mr. Policeman and Brother X.

What is that saying?

"Judge not, less yea be judged."

I vote for the healing and a second chance. People fuck up their lives all the time. Sometimes, irreprably.

Making this guy suffer won't bring back the dead. Tossing him in a deep, dark hole only costs the rest of us any potential good he might have done in the future.

Yes, we risk releasing a monster into our midst. Life isn't fair or easy. We, atleast, can attempt to be fair.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jager:
Hello, Mr. Policeman and Brother X.

What is that saying?
"Judge not, less yea be judged."

I vote for the healing and a second chance. People fuck up their lives all the time. Sometimes, irreprably.
Making this guy suffer won't bring back the dead. Tossing him in a deep, dark hole only costs the rest of us any potential good he might have done in the future.
Yes, we risk releasing a monster into our midst. Life isn't fair or easy. We, at least, can attempt to be fair.
You still trying to save the world Old Man? I remember you from a few years back and you sound now just like you did back then. You can't save those that don't want to be saved Jager. Fairness has nothing to do with this guy, I doubt the victims families would consider him getting healed this way "fair."
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Some people just can't handle being a killer. I think death and killing is a perfectly natural part of life and survival. But so few people are faced with such a harsh requirement for survival ever. If someone can help him fine, but he never did anything wrong.

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Little Sister Delicious, if a member of the One Race asks for something that is within power to give, it should be given.

We are so new to the world in this incarnation, and so young as a people. If our kin has followed his path and it has led to the death of others, Apep is right. Reget is but the shell of his former self and should not hold him back.

If he has been tricked into the chains of others, he should be freed. The laws, customs, and traditions of the baseline world are no longer for us. Free him.

It is our destiny to remake the world. We should not be helping those who have fallen behind us to put one of our own in a cell.

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Guilt is a powerful force and a private one. The pain is something he needs to feel because it comes from who he is. Don't take away the pain find a way for him to focus it. How he chooses to deal with balancing his personal scales of justice is part of his burden, but I would advise against sitting somewhere and feeling sorry for himself if he can gain enough mental stability to keep from hurting again.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry,for taking so long.I had to think long and hard, and spend a long time with this man.i dived deep into his mind.it was scary.

What I saw, nearly made me end my contract with Utopia.I did not, but I put a letter to them saying what sort of jobs I would be willing to take.

And before anyone thinks I was a coward.i say to you, that you may be right, but it was damned hard not to full rewite everything in his mind that I could, jsut make him a jabbering fool in a cell.

So, I did slightly change him.I made him truely think that he can't break out of the cell he is holding,and made a few safe gaurds in his mind to prevent him from harming people, when not in a life threating place.

But right now, I need someone to talk to,and i do not fully feel comfortable talking to anyone in Utopia.It is nto that they do nto knwo what they talk about, but it is jsut hard to talk to them..Anyways Walker, I think another good talk would mak things just make the world a lot better.

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I can see that the little trip into the dark waters was indeed rough.

I'm not trying to belittle what you went through in the slightest. You had been roughed up. Seriously. Severely. Enough to shake your trust in your employers. Enough to doubt yourself. Even enough to doubt and lower your faith in humanity in the same breath.

All I have to say, is that it's your mind. It's your decision. But please, make sure the decisions you make at this juncture are made through self exploration of your needs. Particularly your personal mental state and what would improve your life.

Do you think you improved your lot in life doing what you do? Do you think you're providing an honest effort and doing the right thing?

I feel you are. You've ensured that an individual will not harm himself, or harm others without just cause.

I trust you understand the advice is only my opinion, do with it what you will. Points of view are only that, and the only one important in the end is the point you choose. The best would be your own, for it's your own knowledge, and experience, that forms that point of view.

Just don't ignore what's around you. Also, whatever you do, in the next few months keep yourself calm and think clearly. Harsh moves made on percieved problems only lead to more problems.

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Hmm... That would be a good choice... If she wants to stay within that organization. If she does leave them (hopefully on good terms), I could use an "advisor" during corporate negotiations. To sort of keep things on the level during negotiations. I checked the backlog of news from TKI and I saw a few REAL sour deals were made. I'd like to prevent such things from happening. Especially in the division I'm in. TKI-CPR&D can't afford bad deals sucking it's monitary resources dry.

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Well, what good would I do in a diplomacy feild? I mean isn't the point of a diplomatic meting to talk, and show good faith.i don't think having someone that can read minds is sucha good sign of faith.So I do not see where that would be a good path.

So Sakurako, do you think people would be willing to make good deals with someoen who doesn't trust them?also I do not know much about buessness.it is jsut well, boring.

lastly i like helping people.I do nto mean in the long,and far fectching means of things like changing tax rate in a subtle way.I mean seeing the eyes of somoen who now can walk in the open without fear of men in black cars chaising him.

As for not liking utopia.Well, I just find that I do not liek being ttreated by other "docs" and most my friends in Utopia are either really busy,are not the type of people whoa re good with this sort of thing, or both.

NowI do nto mean to come off cold Endeavor,I think you are a good preson.You may need ot go back to get some treatment, but over all you are a good one.Just a bit of a spaz.

Now Walker, I am in my new yact, in South Town(San Diego). I am coming up with a name for it. I think I will go with " Super Nova Girl' but I don't knwo for sure.Anyways I am sure you can find it.

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Sorry it was such a trauma for you. I got to say its a sad day.

Just think about it and you all ought to see what I mean. Before it was a question of if the Miss had the right or obligation to tinker. She's done answered those questions once and for all. I hope you don't think me being critical when I say I ain't happy with the choice you made.

If you ever get asked to do the same for me, Miss Dee, don't bother with no soul searching. Just kill me outright. I won't hold it against you seeing as how it's better than what you done to this one.

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"State-Sanctioned" mind control. Will the wonders of this Age never cease?

THANK YOU SO VERY-FUCKING-MUCH UTOPIA!

I think I am going to take a page from Mr. Meehan's book.

What is going to happen WHEN the controls wear off and he remembers exactly what was done to him?

Then, the cell will not hold him.

Then, all the aggression you have repressed will finally be unleashed ... in the hands and mind of a trained and proven killer.

This is a damn cheat. How has this individual learned anything? Outside of the mental straight jacket, what is helping this person become more reasonable or responsible.

I am sick and tired of people burying their heads, and their troubles, in the sand.

Delicious, I don't blame you too much. You had your marching orders and did what you thought was right. I have been there, too. I said no, but then I hold individual freedoms in pretty high regard.

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Preston.It was your goverment that wanted this done, Utopia interacided to do it in a less invasiice method.u If it was left to the the US goverment, he would have what I would call a death of personaility.In other words his whole life woudl have been whiped away.

I saw away to please all parties in the least envasive way.

And in the end we all do what we think is right.In the end a man will make a system as far as his army can reach.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Delicious:
In the end a man will make a system as far as his army can reach.
Harsh words for the things of man but I can see where you get it from. The crux matter is you volunteered for that 'army'. So now it ain't a question of what society says or Utopia decided to get into. Its about what you did, Miss Dee. You did it for the reasons you wanted to do it.

I'm serious. If it comes down to a choice I want you to take a hammer to my skull. The death is clean and ain't nobody got to wonder why my body is walking around when I ain't there. I lived as me and I want to fucking well die the same way.
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Dee...

You've gotten stuck between a rock and a hard place. A lot of people here don't like being told what to do, neither do I. Even Nazis said they were "following orders". But what seperates you from that unethical and inhuman lot is you went in to the situation you're now in with open eyes and wanting to make the world safer.

I can't deride you for what you did. You made your choice based on the options in front of you. In the end, you chose to re-format the man's brain cells. What more could you have done in your situation? I sure as hell don't know what else you could have done.

Dee, please, if I were you, I'd apply for a less... contraversial position in Aeon or PU.

It was also foolish of me to ask you to become a "lie detector" for me. I should trust people more.

BTW: Go ahead and call your yacht that.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Delicious:
Preston.It was your goverment that wanted this done, Utopia interacided to do it in a less invasiice method.u If it was left to the the US goverment, he would have what I would call a death of personaility.In other words his whole life woudl have been whiped away.
The Hell You Say! That is patently illegal. No way/no how would the Supreme Court of these United States allow that to happen.
Death of Personality, my ass. When and were was anything like that made legal? It hasn't been.
What is the legal prescedent?
Who was the prosecuting AAG?
What district was this case tried in?
If this is really happening, I am personally taking up this man's case. Not in my damn country. Not while I wear a badge.
I swore to Serve and Protect the citizens of this country. This will not happen while I still draw breath.

Quote:
I saw a way to please all parties in the least envasive way.
I am sure the NWO at Utopia is happy with you. What's next? Thought Police? Mind scanning kindergarteners for aggressive tendancies?

Quote:
And in the end we all do what we think is right. In the end a man will make a system as far as his army can reach.
As Sandy Davis is oft to say: Nazis did what they thought was right, too. Sterilizing the "unfit", putting social, economic, and ethnic "undesirables" in concentration camps.

Are you sure you are not trying to drive every self-respecting nova into the arms of the Teragen? You are happily embracing the option of abandoning free-will for the illusion of happiness.
Does this motto ring a bell?

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
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Patriotic Fervor aside, I do agree on many points that Preston brings up.

1: National Soverignity

PU on a daily basis in some way either minor or major, violates that. It seems the only law that they listen to is international law. I do remember somewhere that there is a clause for national soverignity to be respected, but I don't know if that's true. If it is, then indeed, PU is quite hypocrytical.

2: Free Will

Indeed, Delicious's choices had been severely limited. Of course if you look at what she had to deal with, I at least could emphathize with her. If she had more personal freedom, say for example; working as a police officer or some form of law enforcement agency like the FBI, she'd be able to use conventional means. Thus keeping her out of the conundrum she is facing now.

3: Live Free or Die...

Although I'm a transplant from a country at one time recieved the gift of two atomic weapons, I don't hold a grudge. That was payment for mistakes my former country made in the past. All the people involved are either long dead, or soon will be. The more I live here in the United States, the more I feel I belong. Indeed, I do take those words to heart. But as another great American Patriot said;

With Freedom comes Eternal Vigilance.

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Endeavor, a little history supplement for #3.

Two words for ya:

Saipan and Okinawa. After those two island assualts, the US was pretty convinced that the Japanese military would fight to the bitter end, and that the Japanese population would seek suicide over capture.

Without those two bombs, it is likely you would never have been born, and there would be no nation of Nippon left.

Operation Olympic (the planned Invasion of the Japanese home islands) estimated one million US casualites(dead and wounded), 7 million Japanese "military" dead, and 18 million Japanese civilian dead ... minimum.

Just think how much 'fun' all that would have been if novas had been involved.

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Absolutely true, Jager. Operation Olympic would have cost many more lives. But, that would have been karmic retribution for all the things Japan did during that era. Hiroshima and Nagasaki was also retribution. In the end, War is hell. By the way, My great-grandfather would have been one of those people the US would have fought in that campaign. If it ever happened... Therefore, you were right. I wouldn't have been born.

And if Novas WERE involved... There may not have been anything left on either side...

Sometimes I wonder what's more dangerous, a Nova or a Nuke...

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Look, the only things that could be done with this nova was to kill him in an inhumane way, or keep him in drug induced coma.

So wile it is a wrong thing, would youw ant either of the other options?

And he will be getting treatment for this problem by other means as well.

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