opnet [OpNet] Is there anything we can't do?

[Dane]

Well, it's just something I've been thinking about. Since I erupted back in 03 my powers has developed tremendously. In the beginning I was somewhat limited, laserbolt, forcefield, invisibility, flight, high level's of intelligence and perception, pretty much the basics. In the beginning, however, I was limited to the effects I could create by manipulating light.

I guess the main reason for that is that I've always been something of a geek when it comes to physics in general and light in particular.

In recent years, however, I've been able to expand my ability to manipulate energies to the entire electromagnetic spectrum and even beyond that.

Based on that, and on how I've observed other novas develope it would be fair to ascertain that we are indeed only limited by our imaginations.

This is off course merely thoughts that's been puzzling me recently, but it would be great to hear what other great minds have to say on the subject.

[Jager]

IMHO,

"We" is the key as much as the ...

"what can be done".

I like to put it this way:

As you expand your personal relationship with the universe, you can do more. You also find it harder and harder to relate to others.

In theory, eventually every moment of your existance is such a violation of so many precieved laws of reality, you and reality become divorced. At that point, are you really still a nova?

My experience leads me to believe that various novas cling to certain percieved "realities" to keep them on some sort of common keel with the rest of us. They don't see themselves as being self-limiting by declaring something to be impossible. I think most novas will never get past that point. They don't want to. After all, the alternative is pretty terrifying.

Well, I doubt this opinion qualifies me as a "great thinker". I consider myself just someone with an some thoughts on the matter.

Hey, I could be wrong.

[Jager]

Another answer to your question could be:

Give good advice to the love-lorne.

[Dane]

Quote:

My experience leads me to believe that various novas cling to certain percieved "realities" to keep them on some sort of common keel with the rest of us. They don't see themselves as being self-limiting by declaring something to be impossible. I think most novas will never get past that point. They don't want to. After all, the alternative is pretty terrifying.

Interesting point, personally I believe you can never learn too much. Whether it's about yourself or the world around you and it seems, from what I've read on this board, that a couple of guys have gone beyond "that point."

I wouldn't say that anybody concsiously sets a limit to what is deemed possible, I think it's simply a matter of imagination and creativity. I believe that those novas with a creative hobby or occupation will more easily reach "that point."

I believe there is a difference between power and "what you can do." To put it in different terms some unimaginative git may be able to pounce the planet out of orbit, but would never be able todo much else. On the other hand you might have a nova of seemingly low levels of power who can use it in ways few others could even comprehend.

I like to paint. I'm no Van Gogh, but it has helped me tremendously in the developement of my abilities.

I believe that some day, in the future, novas will be able to create entire worlds with but a thought.
I also believe that some day I will pass "that point" I'm just too curious not to try.

[Cody]

I think I see a point to Mr. Jager's musing though, JB. For some the science is everything. It helps them understand how they do what they do, so they can see other things they should be able to do too. They learn from it by logic and reasoning. For others all that's just a headache what gets in the way of what they're doing. I don't mean no insult to Mr. Meehan, Miss Widget or Singularity. It just seems to me that some of what we do - a lot of what we do - is flat out impossible. The only reason folks ain't willing to say it's impossible is 'cause they see it happening with their own eyes.

When a nova decides to make his own little world, knowing the rules will help them make a good one but that ain't got nothing to do with the fact that they just built a world.

[Jager]

Science is a series of tools we use to understand and codify reality.

[Cody]

And there are other ways.

"Science" can't explain how I do what the thing that happens when I juice up. Only what folks think should be happening. No one can say how it works. I ain't saying it's time to chuck it all and start dancing around the fire but that way of seeing things only gets you so far.

[Prof. Sydney 'Photon' Holland]

Of course, Science never makes the claim that it knows everything. It merely makes the claim that it can make an attempt to explain that which can be observed.

60 years ago, we didn't know about DNA. Science now has a pretty damn good idea on how the whole thing works now, to the point where we can clone organs, perform gene therapy and create plants that clean up mining tailings.

15 years ago, we never knew that something as small as an M-R Node could generate and manipulate such massive amounts of Quantum energies. Actually, 15 years ago, we didn't even now that a purely organic system could generate and/or control Quantum energies. Now, it's a perfectly obvious fact to anyone watching N!.

Science is a process, and it isn't a process that sits still. As Jager points out, it's a tool to understand the observable universe. It may not be able to explain how we do what we do yet, but that doesn't mean it never can. The human race wasn't born with the massive body of knowledge it has now, we've had to pick it up piece by piece, looking at bits and pieces, discarding those fragments of knowledge that turn out to be inadequate or plain wrong.

But just because we can't explain everything now doesn't mean that we should just throw it out. It's not supposed to be able to explain everything now. Maybe as time extends to infinity, but not for now.

At any rate, I'd love to hear your alternative...

[Cody]

Professor, I already said we shouldn't throw it out just 'cause it don't work well when it comes to the juice. Yeah, Mr. Jager said it's a tool. I didn't say it wasn't - I said it wasn't the only one. And that if it is the only one you use then you better get use to disappointment. I think lots of good comes from those bits and pieces of knowledge you talk about. I love taking machines apart and putting them back together - cars are my hobby - so I got lots of use for them bits of knowledge.

But "science" don't have a clue to even begin explaining how I do what I do. Sure I've read some explanations from men with more letters after their name than a bowel of alphabet soup.

It still comes down to this; ain't nobody got a clue how it works. They talk a lot and give out names like "Farahcyte" and "Mazarin-Rashoud Node" but they don't know. Hell, I think if novas and humans get into a pissing contest that's going to be what the fight is really about. Them figuring out what we do really is "impossible" and it scaring the shit out of them.

That might just be me though.

Re: JB

This really is on-topic. The way I see it being able to do anything don't mean you can do everything. If you think something is impossible then it is. 'Course if you keep an open mind that means there's lot of "impossible" things you can do if you push the 'I-Believe-Button' enough times and work it out in your own head.

[Dane]

I never thought it went off-topic, and even if it did you have all brought some very interesting points to the foreground. I am a scientist by nature, but not by heart. You see I like science, in the geeky way some people like comics or computer games, I like it because it broadens my horizon.

When I figure something out I like to put it into practical use. Whether that something is of a scientific nature or not it's always interesting to try it out, and it may be the most human part of me left.

I agree with you that science alone can not explain many of the things we are capable of, but a bit of scientific knowledge in the hands of someone creative enough to put it to good use goes a long way.

I may sound like a mad scientist here, but if we don't make progress we are regressing it has always been that way, and I don't think that will ever change.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

We can't do everything. I've spent hours and hours trying to commune with my computers. I have never managed to do it.

An eruption is something like the universe's big bang. At time zero, anything was possible. Then natural laws formed and rules were laid down. Now we have to live with Gravity being a certain amount, ect.

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
After all, the alternative is pretty terrifying.

Had to think about this for a spell. I decided lots of alternatives are pretty terrifying. Jumping off a mountain top instead of walking down comes to mind. Climbing down instead of sitting there and admiring the pretty view is another. So is climbing up the mountain to begin with when you know you got to get down somehow. Heck, just going to sleep use to be pretty terrifying when I thought of all the things that could happen when I dreamed.

Once you climb the mountain, get pushed off and live things look a little different. I still sleep too. And if some things are a little different when I wake up... well that's okay. There are always gonna be them that dance to a different beat. They look awake and alive when the rest of the world is still walking in it's sleep. Don't mean they can't talk with the sleepers, they just don't have much to say that the sleepers want to hear.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Black:
I agree with you that science alone can not explain many of the things we are capable of, but a bit of scientific knowledge in the hands of someone creative enough to put it to good use goes a long way.

You said you paint so I say a little knowledge of paint and paper goes a long way. Knowing the compression stage ratio for every hypercombustion engine manufactured since the first one got dropped into a car chassis is pretty useful to me.

Both of these are skills - and important to the man that needs them - but you won't find the meaning of life in either one. For them that look to science for answers to important questions I got only this to say;

Science is about watching and seeing what the universe does when you don't mess with it. But all we do is mess with the universe and besides... ain't the person changing the universe just by the fact that he's watching?

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
We can't do everything. I've spent hours and hours trying to commune with my computers. I have never managed to do it.

I spent hours and hours trying make the skirt on Sarah Jane climb just a little higher than it already was. 'Course that was back in the tenth grade and I wasn't a nova yet.

I can't prove it Doctor Smith, but it seems to me that there is wanting a thing and deep down needing it. Eruption, least the way I remember it, was feeling a need like I can't even describe.

When you really need it instead of wanting it, I think you'll hear your computer talk to you.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Cody:
...there is wanting a thing and deep down needing it....When you really need it instead of wanting it, I think you'll hear your computer talk to you.

Ha. Gotcha there. I didn't need these powers at the time of my eruption. After a four day aspirin proof headache my computer's mouse stopped working and I lost my temper at it.

The old me would have been better off with enhanced intelligence (which I did get) and cyberK (which I didn't). The standard nova metabolism would have cured my nicotine habit; I didn't need the enhanced healing and I certainly didn't need the strength to walk through a load bearing wall.

Since then I've gotten stronger, tougher, and (because of the constant attacks on my intelligence) smarter. But there is a long list of really useful powers that I just can't seem to wrap my head around.

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Ha. Gotcha there.

Not so sure you do, Doc. I'm ain't going to tell you what was in your head come eruption. If you say it happened just so then I say okay. I will say a man is made of many parts. Some not full of sweetness and light or what a fellah might call thoughtful.

Some seem to erupt so they don't die but teleporting out of a fire ain't no reason to get pretty too. I think we all got needs that got nothing to do with what's around us, smart, right or factual. Them are just as real to as any need to get out of the way of a car or a crashing plane. It ain't just about breathing like a fish 'cause your drowning. Or being able to see through stuff when you can't find your keys.

There's also the writer Sherazahde becoming what sounds like a real wonder in heels just 'cause she was REALLY into what her beau was doing for her. She didn't "need" what she got from eruption - least I can't think of why she would - but part of her needed it all the same. Arek erupted trying to kill himself. Some might say it got in the way of his suicide but I think a part of him needed something to live.

I don't know why you got mean, green and pissed off. Seeing as how you did I wouldn't be saying this if we were standing in the same room but... I'm thinking somewhere inside there's a part that wasn't too sad to see 500 pounds of mean green pissed off muscle staring back in the mirror. When that same part "needs" to talk with your computer then I think you'll hear it talk to you.

[Dane]

I won't delve too deeply into my own eruption as there are so many facts about it I still need to get straight myself, but I feel that Cody does have a point. There are thousands of levels of "needs." Nobody needs to make Helen of Troy look like Mrs. Brown down the street to ensure theire immediate survival, but there are still those look like that.

I know that without erupting at the time I did I probably wouldn't be alive today, but why are my powers light based? As an assistant to Professor Levitz at SUNY I was working with light based experiments, and it was an area I was keenly interested in for many reasons. Surely it would be logical to conclude that while my powers didn't need to be light based to survive I harbored a desire to know all I could about the phenomenon and thus had my "wish" granted.

So did those who are big and ugly desire to be that way, probably not, but as most have realised these abilities doesn't come free of charge.

[Jager]

When you open that door to your soul ...

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
When you open that door to your soul ...

Amen, Brother.

Getting the chance to look inside means giving the chance for something inside to peek back out. One way or another the piper gets his due.

[Dane]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cody:
Getting the chance to look inside means giving the chance for something inside to peek back out. One way or another the piper gets his due.

Usually though I find that the rewards a worth the risk.

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Black:
Usually though I find that the rewards a worth the risk.

Me too, but I like what I've become.

Haven't quit figured out where the boundaries are yet but the puzzle's always more fun when your working on it than when it's finished.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Jack Black:
...There are thousands of levels of "needs."...

I know that without erupting at the time I did I probably wouldn't be alive today, but why are my powers light based?

That brings up two points.

1) Saying that there are thousands of levels of needs is another way of saying "we don't know or understand this".

If someone becomes pretty it is because they "needed" it. OK, fine. But the same holds true if they became ugly. Or if their appearance didn't change. And we can't tell who needed what until after the fact. If it isn't going to predict anything, then it isn't a theory.

2) We weren't really talking about eruption. Sure, there is a level of predictiveness that happens with eruptions under stress, or while in danger. (The counter arguement for that would be that we just never hear about the person falling to his death who gains the power of talking to plants.)

My claim was that, after eruption, there are rules.

If any of us can do anything, then my lack of comunication with a computer is my fault, or my not needing it. Fine.

So cut a finger off. (Can anyone tell I'm green right now? ) Assuming you don't already regenerate, that would be the way to learn, right? And if that doesn't do it...

Lots of elites get killed because they don't have the right powers. I'd say they needed it.

[Sandy Davis]

I see the power of novas based on want rather than needs.Novas change and grow on what they want, but not what they need.

We often are mistaken by what needs and wants are.You may want something and need the same thing.But one must remember that you do not always need what you want,and want what you need.

[Cody]

Quote:

1) Saying that there are thousands of levels of needs is another way of saying "we don't know or understand this".

People ain't simple, leastwise they don't seem that way to me. Eruption is about people so eruption ain't simple. A drowning man breathes water, another makes the water carry him to the beach and a third one disappears to find himself standing in the his office dripping wet. A fourth makes a bubble of air around himself and just floats up into the sky. A fifth finds herself talking with dolphins made out of crackling juice that let her ride them back.

I ain't a head doctor or a priest. It just seems to me that it starts with how they think and they know what they can do. It makes sense to them. You cut your finger off to grow it into someone just like you. Why the hell did you even think of that? It sounds purely crazy to me but to you it made sense.

Quote:

2) We weren't really talking about eruption... The counter arguement for that would be that we just never hear about the person falling to his death who gains the power of talking to plants.)

Not at first we weren't but we sort of got there. That would be my bad. Sorry. You might want to talk with Walker about the dying and talking with plants thing. 'Course he might be the exception instead of the rule.

Quote:

My claim was that, after eruption, there are rules.

I side tracked this back into eruption 'cause there's something there I thought had a bearing on what JB asked. You're right that there are rules. They got to do more with how a man thinks than with scientific foolery but they're rules anyway. I can't tell you what yours are any more than you can tell me what mine are. We might be able to see things for each other that we can't see ourselves though.

For instance it sounds to me like you don't really miss not getting your cyberK but would sort of like it anyway. When you really got to have it you might want to try something besides "communing" with the machine. Aside from looking a little silly and it not working, there are rules like you said. Instead of talking with it you might want to try just threatening the hell out of it and seeing what it does...

No, really...

[Apep]

If you really believe that there are "rules" then you're only going to stunt your own growth. You can do anything if you really want to. No it's not going to happen by just by wishing for it, you really have to push yourself, and changes don't happen overnight.

It's easier to progress when you set a certain path for yourself. All roads lead to another, finding the right way to where you want to go without getting lost or turning back is the problem.

[Violette 'V' D'Aronique]

What do you mean by push yourself, Apep? Do you mean like, using more and more juice or is there something else?

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by Apep:
It's easier to progress when you set a certain path for yourself.

Can't speak for Doctor Smith but that's what I meant about there being rules, Miss Apep. I set myself on my road one warm morning and there ain't no where that road won't take me that I don't want to go. I do see another problem besides the ones you mention. Choosing a road, any road, means there are others that I ain't walking on. It's why I tell Doctor Smith he's got to need what he desires or his road won't take him there.

A good question Miss D'Aronique. Can't wait to hear the answer on this one. I suspect Doctor Smith and JB among others are waiting to hear it too.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Violette 'V' D'Aronique:
What do you mean by push yourself, Apep? Do you mean like, using more and more juice or is there something else?

I have an arrangement with a scientist friend of mine and have come across some interesting studies of one Serge 'Surge' Woolsey, former Elite and current Terat. Surge inititally erupted with the capability to generate and manipulate large amounts of electrical energy. Nothing particularly unique there, but what he did with it was interesting. He got it into his mind that he was a being of electricity and that the electricity interacting with his Node must be what allowed him to increase his proficiency with his particular Quantum Expression. So, he thought, what would happen in he was to purposely flood his Node with electricity? As far as the science of Nova Physiology is concerned, nothing should have happened. Well, Mr. Woolsey didn't seem to understand that. He can, at will, flood his Node with an enormous amount of energy and 'supercharge' himself temporarily. He has, on a number of occasions, developed new, but short lived, Quantum Expressions. Now, as I've said, according to a vast majority of the research out there, what Mr. Woolsey does is impossible. He just didn't know that. So, when you're looking to move forward in your evolution, sometimes it's best to leap first and ask questions later. The results can be impressive.

[Cryostorm]

So, your saying all's I gotta do is think outside the box and push the juice? That seems like a quick way to get yourself in a world of hurt, but who'm I to critisize if it works.

Can't say that I'm eager to to try though.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Brother X:
So, your saying all's I gotta do is think outside the box and push the juice? That seems like a quick way to get yourself in a world of hurt, but who'm I to critisize if it works.

Can't say that I'm eager to to try though.

Well, there is the matter of the side effects. He now has a skull seared clean of all flesh, bathed in constant fluctuations of electrical energy, yes. And, his presence is absolute poison to baselines. He glows. And, when he does use this 'supercharge' ability, his glow is positively enormous.

But, he seems to have gotten a handle on it as of late.

[Cryostorm]

Heh, not exactly a shining recomendation for the whole deal if you know what I mean. Me, I prefer to get get a handle on where I am today before I go jumping in to the deep end of the pool.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I think I'll go a bit slower than that. Those of us who can't swim might drown.

[Dane]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
I think I'll go a bit slower than that. Those of us who can't swim might drown.

That touches one of the points I and others have tried to raise.

How do you know you can't swim if you don't try? and if you can't how do you know you will drown?

In essence developing your nova "abilities" is a process of trial and error, sometimes it might not work and in those times you just have to hope you're not in a situation where it wont kill you, but you wont know if you don't try.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Black:
How do you know you can't swim if you don't try? and if you can't how do you know you will drown?

I already turn into a big green mitoid with an additude problem. For that matter, the last time I tried something really innovative, I ended up with the ability to radically decrease my intelligence.

The initial signs aren't good.

[Dane]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Black:
How do you know you can't swim if you don't try? and if you can't how do you know you will drown?

I already turn into a big green mitoid with an additude problem. For that matter, the last time I tried something really innovative, I ended up with the ability to radically decrease my intelligence.

The initial signs aren't good.

Some would say it can only get better from this point.

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
The initial signs aren't good.

Not good?

That stomp through Columbia is famous. I hear Pandemonium Productions wants to make a movie about it with Narcossis being willing to play Anna DeVries. Dude, you were a legend!

[Sakurako Hino]

[connection established]

Um, guys...

If anyone's got a boat they can use near Los Angles, I need a tow.

My yacht went boom-boom, and I need someone to tow my lifeboat back to Endeavor Point. >.<

Just a favor. Pweese? ^.^

[Jager]

Glad to hear nothing I have ever said about operational security is ever listened to.

I believe the appropriate symbol is:

Cody, Vlad Tepes was legendary as well. Some care should be taken into what kind of legends we become.

[Sakurako Hino]

Eh?

Davy the troll is getting a movie?

Sweet! ^.^

As soon as my little fishing expedition is over, I might want some more news on the whole thing!

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Some care should be taken into what kind of legends we become.

True enough Mr Jager. Doctor Smith surprised me more than anyone else here. I don't know what I expected from the Green Machine but this wasn't it.

Might not be a bad movie though. If they could get to the truth thru all the fluff.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cody:
That stomp through Columbia is famous. I hear Pandemonium Productions wants to make a movie about it with Narcosis being willing to play Anna DeVries. Dude, you were a legend!

(Sorry, it took me a couple of days just to think about this, and I have to talk to legal every time this comes up).

It is still in the planning, and I have mixed feeling. One of my larger mistakes immortalized on screen.

::Sigh:: Well at least I'll get some royalties.

After all this time I still haven't come to terms on this one. A big part of me *still* wants to protest my innocence. The other operatives should darn well have realized that increasing the level of violence just wasn't a good idea. But I have to admit that it did real nice things for my career. On several occasions other novas refused to fight me. On the other hand, it also made it a lot harder to get dates.

There are several lessons in there I suppose. One of them is &#8220;benefit from your mistakes.&#8221;

[Sakurako Hino]

Thinking about the subject to this thread, I think there is a lot most novas cannot do. I mean, couldn't stand toe-to-toe with Pax or Mal. I can't roll with Lance Stryker, I'd get perforated.

To put it mildly, I'm a lightweight.

But, throw me at an unruly server, and the whole mood changes. I'm practically a goddess of data. Binary code is my home language.

Novas specialize. That's what I've discovered. If a Nova trys to be everything for everyone, they'll find themselves burned out and taint ridden in no time flat.

You don't have to try to be everything.