Aberrant RPG - Passive Defense Values: Imported to Aberrant?

[metaphysician]

Okay, those here who have looked at Exalted 2e or Scion should be familiar with the idea of Pass Defense Values. For everyone else, the basic idea is a character has a rating, a defense value. This rating is the number of sux it takes to hit them in combat. Instead of having to take dodge actions, you always have you DV, as long as your active. *However*, any action you take lowers your DV by a variable amount, until your next action ( I'm ignoring the tick system ). A very quick and minor action might lower it by -1, while a flurry ( taking multiple attack actions ) will lower it by a lot ( the full DV penalty for each action taken, down to a minimum of 0 ). The DV is not automatically reduced by enemy actions, but certain things do hose it ( being surrounded, coordinated attacks, etc ).

For the purposes of this discussion, presume that one's Dodge DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Athletics ) / 2, and ones Parry DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Melee/MA + weapon modifier ) / 2.

What would be the major consequences of incorporating Passive DVs to Aberrant?

[BlueNinja]

For the purposes of this discussion, presume that one's Dodge DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Athletics ) / 2, and ones Parry DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Melee/MA + weapon modifier ) / 2.

What would be the major consequences of incorporating Passive DVs to Aberrant?

For starters, Multitasking and Quickness would need to be re-written.

Speedster characters would become virtually invulnerable to everything but area attacks, or being outnumbered vastly. Some people will argue that this is not a bad thing, but I think it is.

I'm not sure it would actually make combat any faster. Do taking multiple actions still have an affect on your dice pool, or does it simply reflect in DV? If there's no dice pool effect, I'd expect to see a great deal of first-round all-out assaults, followed by only 1-2 actions a round if the opposing force is still standing.

[BlueNinja]

On thinking about it further (while waiting in line at Medical) I think that the DV system wouldn't work unless you changed to using Exalted's tick method for actions/initiative. IIRC from browsing the Exalted books, it's designed so that you take one action every time your tick comes around, which ranges from 'simple' (ie, throw one punch) to 'complex' (a spinning roundhouse throw, or something) which then affects your DV until your next tick (when you 'recover' I guess). This wouldn't work so well in Aberrant, because it's designed to split your primary action, which I don't know how the heck you'd account for under a tick system. (actions at every 25% of your regular tick or something?) The only thing that DV would do for Aberrant is reduce die rolling for the defender.

[Alex Green]

presume that one's Dodge DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Athletics ) / 2

Hmm... Mega-Dex seems seriously under-rated here.

Joe Nova (Dex 5, Athletics 5, no Mega) gets a DV of 5

Totentanz gets a DV of 7.

The big effect is to eliminate the need for making "Dodge" actions, which probably increase their effectiveness (on the whole IMHO this is a good thing since by implication it decreases the effectiveness of the bricks).

[metaphysician]

For starters, Multitasking and Quickness would need to be re-written.

Speedster characters would become virtually invulnerable to everything but area attacks, or being outnumbered vastly. Some people will argue that this is not a bad thing, but I think it is.

I'm not sure it would actually make combat any faster. Do taking multiple actions still have an affect on your dice pool, or does it simply reflect in DV? If there's no dice pool effect, I'd expect to see a great deal of first-round all-out assaults, followed by only 1-2 actions a round if the opposing force is still standing.

I'd have to check how exactly its done in Exalted, but I believe dice pools are split like they are for Full Dodges in Aberrant. However, the DV penalty is *cumulative*. So if you take three attack actions that are -2 DV each, you're dicepool would be -3, -4, and -5 for the actions. . . but your DV would be down -6 until next turn.

As for how multitasking and quickness effect this, my inclination would be to say that multitasking cuts the dice pool penalty and the DV penalty in half. Quickness, by contrast, would give you a single 'free' action at full dice pool with no DV penalty.

[metaphysician]

presume that one's Dodge DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Athletics ) / 2

Hmm... Mega-Dex seems seriously under-rated here.

Joe Nova (Dex 5, Athletics 5, no Mega) gets a DV of 5

Totentanz gets a DV of 7.

The big effect is to eliminate the need for making "Dodge" actions, which probably increase their effectiveness (on the whole IMHO this is a good thing since by implication it decreases the effectiveness of the bricks).

Hmm, so maybe change the dynamic to ( Dex + Athletics ) /2 + Mega Dex, and likewise for blocking? Granted, that makes Mega Dex notably more useful, though mostly in that you don't have to Full Dodge if your taking multiple attacks.

As an aside, Exalted has a fairly large number of unblockable and undodgeable attacks, which you can't use that type of DV against. However, its not a concept that readily transfers to Aberrant, as its mostly determined on a charm by charm basis, and with the common element of "there be perfect defenses around."

[Alex Green]

Exalted would give... what for M-dex? +1/2/4/7/11 ?

So T would have a DV of 15?

The real question is, is this broken?

[Arashi]

For the purposes of this discussion, presume that one's Dodge DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Athletics ) / 2, and ones Parry DV is ( Dex + Mega Dex + Melee/MA + weapon modifier ) / 2.

Why would you use Athletics to determine the DV? Why not the Dodge Skill?

[metaphysician]

Exalted would give... what for M-dex? +1/2/4/7/11 ?

So T would have a DV of 15?

The real question is, is this broken?

Exalted actually uses ( Dex + Dodge + Essence ) / 2 for Dodge DV, and doesn't have an equivalent to Mega Dex. There's various charms that add to DV, but in a bunch of ways that aren't really compatible with Aberrant. I dropped the Essence component, though I suppose it could be put back in.

Scion adds +1/2/4/7/11, but that is because epic attributes work differently.

So, T would be more like DV 10, less if he's attacking. This would make him quite hard to hit, unless you haul out area attacks. OTOH, he'd need more than 1 sux to hit anybody *else*, so. . .

[metaphysician]

Why would you use Athletics to determine the DV? Why not the Dodge Skill?

Because Aberrant doesn't have a Dodge skill.

That said, a good argument could be made for carrying over the Exalted skill array, with a few minor modifications. . . but that's a topic for another thread.

[Matthew]

If you are interested you should look at my Aberrant conversion to the Exalted 2nd edition rules. I talk about Passive Defense values and many other rules.

Link

I have a more up to date edition, but I need to dig it up. if you have anything questions feel free to ask.

[Alex Green]

Thank you B.

[Matthew]

No problem, that is what I am here for.

Personally, I think Exalted 2nd Edition is perfect for a revamp of the Aberrant system. It's dramatic, over the topic fantasiscal violence.

[Matthew]

I think this is the latest version I had of my conversion.

Link

[metaphysician]

No problem, that is what I am here for.

Personally, I think Exalted 2nd Edition is perfect for a revamp of the Aberrant system. It's dramatic, over the topic fantasiscal violence.

I'm inclined to agree, its just a question of converting every power and effect over. Which would be a distinctly non-trivial undertaking.