Trinity RPG - Psion Offspring

[Rorx]

Ok, following on from Aberant topic discussion I dug up these figures for Nova offspring from a fan supplement called Aberrant: A Breed Apart - very good, do a search and look it up!

Nova Father and Baseline Mother: 25% 1st Gen Nova, 50% Latent* or High Quantum Baseline child

Nova Mother and Baseline Father: 50% 1st Gen Nova, 100% Latent* or High Quantum Baseline child

Nova Father and HQB Mother: 50% 2nd Gen Nova, 100% Latent or HQB child

Nova Mother and HQB Father: 80% 2nd Gen Nova, 100% Latent or HQB child

HQB Father and HQB Mother: 10% 1st Gen Nova, 1% 2nd Gen Nova, 50% Latent or HQB

* Latents are those who have the M-R gene sequence and who may erupt/be triggered as Nova, Psiad/Psion, or Daredevil/Superior depending on environmental factors.

High Quantum Background baselines can never erupt as an Inspired but do increase the likelyhood of their descendents doing so. According to ABA they make up about 2 per million of the population.

If we can reasonably assume that since it is the same gene sequence the word Nova can be sustituted by Psion in the figures above it seems as though the growth of the human race towards being predominantly pisionic is pretty good. Especially when you assume that the figures for the HQB also hold true for the Psi 2 Neutrals that the TPG says make up about 1 in 8,000 of neutrals in the Trinity time period.

Given that a 1st Gen Nova is the equivalent of someone who has been triggered as a Psion, the question remains what do people think the 2nd Gen Psions would be like, and what powers should they have?

[Alex Green]

Good question... I'm going to say they'll look pretty much like the first. Psions just don't get the big truck-fulls of power that Novas get.

[Rorx]

True Psions aren't as powerful as Novas, but that isn't a reason why the 2nd and subsequent generations shouldn't increase in power to some degree.

I'd suggest at the very least a general +1 in Psi score, making itmore likely that they will have the prerequisite scores for the currently rarer Aptitudes such as Teleportation and the seemingly human-unique one of Quantakinesis. I'd prefer to see a greater chance of the 2nd Gen self-triggering as Psiads and/or more advanced Psiads that can reach the potentials of the Psions (i.e. Mode 5 in their Primary Aptitudes at Psi 10).

Perhaps they could have a bonus on their Psi Point Pool, either a flat rate or an additional multiplier?

Another point is that with the Prometheus chambers being handed over in 2103, by 2121 it is possible that the first 2nd gen Psi's are reaching 17....

[metaphysician]

I'd be inclined to say that the effects for *psions* are relatively minor. After all, psions are not just psychamorphs, but engineered, restricted psychamorphs. So, aside from having somewhat higher latency, I'd figure no significant change.

Now, second generation descendants of psiads, OTOH. . .

[Rorx]

Sorry Meta, I have to disagree. Genetically there is no difference between those who become psions and those that become psiads/psychomorphs. The only difference is that one group is artificially triggered rather than naturally.

Also after BC/2nd Ed the single Aptitude limit will be gone and the psions will then be more powerful than psiads.

[metaphysician]

After the locks are off, yes. However, I have a hard time seeing the Doyen including locks against multiple aptitude in the tanks, and not locks against breeding past those limits.

[Rorx]

After the locks are off, yes. However, I have a hard time seeing the Doyen including locks against multiple aptitude in the tanks, and not locks against breeding past those limits.

I don't see how they can include a lock to a particular Aptitude to subsequent generations in the single Aptitude lock as the most likely situation is two psionic parents, who could easily have different Aptitudes and so competing locks in your scheme.

They also want the best (controlled) fighter against the Aberrants that they can, so if they leave the potential to get more/better base material and only restrict it when necessary, in the Prometheus Chambers, they would get the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, they couldn't forsee their tampering increasing the Psi field of the system and so steadily increasing the chances of natural triggering of the Psychomorphs to Psiads, this is increased again by Process 418.

Remember that although the Doyen are good at Psionics their best area is Telepathy (from the canon material) not Clairsentience and they are not the equivalent of Mega-Int or even Mega-Wits (indeed they tend to think/plan/react slowly). Given this, it is unlikely that they will have been able to accurately forsee/predict what would happen once they had put the Prometheus Chambers into place over any reasonable length of time. After all the initial plan was to slowly build up the Orders and not reveal them until about 2120, instead the Legion forced them into the open in 2106, only 3 years after they started.

So my argument is that 2nd Gen Psychomorphs would have a better chance of naturally triggering into a Psiad, but also with the capability of reaching 5 dots in their primary Aptitude at Psi 10, 4 dots at Psi 8-9. If not naturally triggered into a Psiad then they can be triggered into a Psion (probably using the new non-Doyen chambers of BC/2nd Ed by the time they are ready/old enough) with a bonus of +1 Psi and/or an extra starting dot in an Aptitude, or perhaps just some bonus freebie pts just to use on Noetic Merits/Psi/Willpower/Aptitude dots. In both cases it is likely that their Primary Aptitudes will be similar to one or both of thier Psychomorph parents, assuming they have them and aren't from the union of two High Psi neutrals.

[Sprocket]

Re: Kids of triggered psions-

If both parents are triggered psions, I'd think that their kid would be an "improved" psiad (2ndGen psion?), being able to access multiple Aptitudes like the psiads in the APG but without the limits on their Psi traits & Mode ratings. They could also have the perks of being child psions (see Trinity: Asia Ascendant) as well if you're assuming that they're born with their psionic capabilities.

Re: High-Psi Neutrals-

These "almost" latent psions were mentioned in the Trinity Players Guide & were one of the inspirations (pun intended) for the High-Quantum baselines in AB:ABA (The other inspiration was the 7-pt. "Psi Sink" Merit - Trinity-era neutrals with that Merit would be considered High-Quantum baselines in the Nova Age.)

Anyhow, High-Psi Neutrals would have increased chances of bearing psionically latent offspring, & could have a small chance of having a "2ndGen psion" kid if the spouse is a triggered psion.

[Rorx]

Re: Kids of triggered psions-

If both parents are triggered psions, I'd think that their kid would be an "improved" psiad (2ndGen psion?), being able to access multiple Aptitudes like the psiads in the APG but without the limits on their Psi traits & Mode ratings. They could also have the perks of being child psions (see Trinity: Asia Ascendant) as well if you're assuming that they're born with their psionic capabilities.

Are you suggesting that 2nd Gen Psychomorphs should

a. Automatically trigger to being a Psiad

b. have no restrictions on their Psi or Modes, and so be able to take all Aptitudes to Mode 5 with any Psi?

This seems a bit of a large jump for a single generation, especially considering that the vast majority of 1st Gen psyhomorphs require artificial triggering (the chambers) to access their powers at all (become Psions). Having said that I agree that is where the Psychomorph generations would be heading, but I think it is more likely to take 4-5 generations to get there.

[Sprocket]

Are you suggesting that 2nd Gen Psychomorphs should

a. Automatically trigger to being a Psiad

b. have no restrictions on their Psi or Modes, and so be able to take all Aptitudes to Mode 5 with any Psi?

Pretty much, although I'd probably have them take a Primary Aptitude, with all but one of the others being considered Secondary. Quantakinesis would likely be limited to kids of Chibs or psions who originally could've become Quantakinetics but were instead triggered by another Psi Order.

Considering that all the genetic/noetic tinkering required to gain high-level access to Psionics was done to their biological parents, it only makes sense that the kids would inherit the benefits.

This seems a bit of a large jump for a single generation, especially considering that the vast majority of 1st Gen psyhomorphs require artificial triggering (the chambers) to access their powers at all (become Psions). Having said that I agree that is where the Psychomorph generations would be heading, but I think it is more likely to take 4-5 generations to get there.

If we're talking about kids of triggered psion & neutral couples, I'd agree with you 100% I'm just saying that the kids of 2 triggered psions would have considerably more of a head-start in the psionics department. It's analogous to comparing 2ndGen nova kids to the children of most nova/baseline couples.

[knave]

As far as I remember from canon, the difference for the future between Novas and Psions is that noetic science applies to all Psions wheres Novas tend to differ quite a lot in how they worked individually. So, depending on what the future holds for the Trinity timeline, noetic enhancement should improve as a body of knowledge at an ever increasing rate to the point at which it closes the gap with Nova power.

fun idea added to the mix ::tongue

[Rorx]

Sorry Sprocket, but your suggestion that 2nd gen should auto-trigger as enhanced Psiads at puberty isnt bourne out by the material. By 2122 there has been plenty of time for psions to have had children that could have reached puberty already.

Hence I think it should just increase the chance of a self-trigger with each generation.

[Sprocket]

Question: How many of those kids you're mentioning are produced by psion/psion couples? Without that data, it seems very likely that the vast majority of psions who do manage to marry & reproduce have done so with neutral partners.

I know that one of the Mashriqi acts as a matchmaking service for the ISRAns, but IIRC there wasn't anything to imply that they're getting them into psion/psion matches.

[Rorx]

The majority probably are psion/neutral, but given that most psions work for organisations that have a higher than normal proportion of psions and a psion has significantly more in common with another psion than most neutrals, there are certain to be more psion/psion pairings than the raw numbers would suggest.

Surprisingly this wasn't mentioned in TFR: Noetics, but you can bet that the Vk's and Bk's at the very least will have used donor psion eggs and sperm to find out what the offspring are like.

[knave]

The majority probably are psion/neutral, but given that most psions work for organisations that have a higher than normal proportion of psions and a psion has significantly more in common with another psion than most neutrals, there are certain to be more psion/psion pairings than the raw numbers would suggest.

Surprisingly this wasn't mentioned in TFR: Noetics, but you can bet that the Vk's and Bk's at the very least will have used donor psion eggs and sperm to find out what the offspring are like.

It's certainly worth exploring in a story or 2. ::biggrin

[Rorx]

Hell if you want a story, how about the blackmarket gene engineers and cybernetics guys working out of Shan, or the Nihon scientists. Both have a good enough terrestrial biotech to do cloning and inheritable genemods.

Given that technology and some DNA samples from psions I see no reason they couldn't create some clones of the psions. Obviously the clones shouldn't be active psions (that could be a story on its own), but they could be used to see how the generation genetics combined.

[knave]

Hell if you want a story, how about the blackmarket gene engineers and cybernetics guys working out of Shan, or the Nihon scientists. Both have a good enough terrestrial biotech to do cloning and inheritable genemods.

Given that technology and some DNA samples from psions I see no reason they couldn't create some clones of the psions. Obviously the clones shouldn't be active psions (that could be a story on its own), but they could be used to see how the generation genetics combined.

With players having some sort of psionic resonance with the clones... or finding out that they are the clones - very 6th day ::biggrin

[Sprocket]

Well, here's another tidbit to make the issue more complicated. Does anyone remember reading about the latent psion called John Zsolt? He was featured in the Trinity corebook's introductory fiction & mentioned in Trinity: Luna Rising.

Anyhow, the deal with him is that the Trinity developers had planned for Mr. Zsolt as not just a strong latent with clairsentient tendencies, but is strong enough to unconsciously (using biokinesis) overcome the Doyen's built-in Aptitude limits after being triggered. The developers also mentioned that Zsolt had some peers scattered around the Solar system & points elsewhere, but he was just the first to really be noticed by the Psi Orders.

I haven't heard or seen anything in the way of rules about how to play a triggered Zsolt-caliber psion, but it strikes me that they would be the best candidates to sire/bear "2ndGen psion" kids. Whether that would be possible with either only a matched couple of Zsolt-caliber psions or if a Zsolt-caliber psion/regular psion couple would suffice, I'd leave to the Storyteller.

[Alex Green]

So what about the biokinesis Proxy?

[Sprocket]

Re: The Pai de Norca & Zsolt-

I suppose he or his Order would have to get a hold of Zsolt after he'd broken free from the Doyen restriction, figure out just what Zsolt did & figure out how to replicate it. Expect the Norca to become truly nightmarish afterwards.

[Rorx]

Re: The Pai de Norca & Zsolt-

I suppose he or his Order would have to get a hold of Zsolt after he'd broken free from the Doyen restriction, figure out just what Zsolt did & figure out how to replicate it. Expect the Norca to become truly nightmarish afterwards.

Interesting. I'd never heard of this Zsolt storyline. However I wouldn't worry about the BK's too much, given that nothing about this had turned up in any material to date in the timeline they wont be able to do too much with it before the new 'Order' from BC is revealed in 2123.

God, I wish Blue Thunder would turn back up long enough to at least provide a copy of his BC notes so the rest of us could finish it off.::brick

[Sprocket]

Re: John Zsolt-

AFAIK, he was left "blank" beyond what little detail we have on him for the Storyteller's convenience. There were some mutterings about Zsolt being intended for use in a line of Trinity paperback novels, but the the whole deal fell through before anything could come of it. ::shrug

[Rorx]

Not sure how Zsolt could acually do what you suggested Sprocket.

The max he could be (with the relevant stats at max) would be Psi 8 and starting with an Auxiliary in BK. Even at Psi 8 I can't see a Mode 1 ability being strong enough to overcome the limiting feature in the Prometheus chambers.

I suppose one possibiilty is that he never actually becomes a Psion, but self-triggers as a Psiad under the stress of approaching the chamber and the Doyen biotech is unable to overwrite his psi field to introduce the limiting factor.

[Rorx]

On a different matter, I think the more extensive genetic engineering that the Proxies underwent har rendered them sterile.

The evidence being that Cassel has been in a loving, monogamous marriage for ~20 years without even a rumour of children anywhere in canon.

[metaphysician]

Makes sense. IIRC, a big part of the em-proxy-ifying process is adding a good deal of Doyen DNA. Plus, I doubt the Doyen want their proxy-level minions breeding more potentially proxy-level minions, even if such is possible.