Aberrant RPG - Mega-Stamina Feats

[Sprocket]

Re: M-Sta 6+ disease-immunity feats-

Aside from bioweapons, there might be one more possibility for this feat theme at M-Sta 6+: harmful prions. Check out what Wikipedia etc. have to say about the ones responsible for Kreutzfield-Jakob Syndrome or kuru. Nasty, nasty stuff. ::devil

Re: Leprosy, cont'd-

I've found a candidate to complete the M-Sta 4 disease-immunity feat, & have changed the M-Sta 5 one a bit. Lhasa fever was more than a bit too obscure for our purposes. Revised listings for the M-Sta 4 & 5 feats are as follows:

Mega-Stamina 4

• Can shrug off being hit by a car.

• Can soak damage caused by radiation - soft radiation is considered bashing and hard radiation is considered lethal - without automatically losing Health Levels.

• Immune to HIV/AIDS, leprosy and "killer" strains of influenza.

• Recover from crippling injuries in one month.

• Unaffected by caesium, polonium and irradiated thallium poisoning.

Mega-Stamina 5

• Immune to Ebola fever, Marburg fever and Pneumatic plague.

• x.

• x.

• x.

• x.

FYI, Pneumatic plague is the airborne strain of the Bubonic plague, which is still killing people in Asia to this very day.

Re: "Pressure change resistance" feat-

I think the grey Hulk ("Mr. Fixit") found himself in this kind of situation after being punched into low Earth orbit by a temporarily cosmic-empowered Spider-Man. Aside from knowing that he'd suffocate once he couldn't hold his breath any longer, he seemed to be surviving well enough in the very short term.

[Matthew]

Yup, that is the idea. A dynamo can survive for the short term.

Along those line don't forget surviving, temporarily, other extremes with out protective gear. Death Valley, Antarctica, etc. Basically mild environmental protection against extreme temperatures. Granted those things would require higher end (4 to 7) ratings in Mega-stamina.

A few times before and during Hulk's exodus to Planet Hulk, he is seen tearing up a Satellite wearing a breathing mask. This means he survives the lack of pressure and cold via being just that damn tough.

[metaphysician]

Really, lack of pressure shouldn't require Mega Stamina 6 to survive. Its really not that injurious. Mega Stamina 4, I'd say. Tops.

[Sprocket]

Re: "pressure change resistance" feat-

Would Mega-Stamina 3 be sufficient for this? All the listings for M-Sta 4 & 1 are currently full, but there's still room in the listings for M-Sta 3, 2 & the rest of the dot ratings.

[metaphysician]

Sounds fine to me. Really, even total vacuum is only marginally more injurious than total absence of oxygen. Given that 3 dots of Mega Stamina gives the nova a minimum 6 bashing, 3 lethal soak, which is a fair bit physically tougher than even the toughest normal human. . .

[Sprocket]

Fair enough, I'll write up a feat for it & add it into the next revision. Speaking of which, do any of you folks have an idea about where an "immunity to harmful prions" feat ought to be pegged? I've been looking at the Wikipedia article on Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (that's the correct spelling this time), and prions are starting to look like the "weak sister" when compared to full-bore bioweapons. Is that perception correct?

[Alex Green]

... prions are starting to look like the "weak sister" when compared to full-bore bioweapons. Is that perception correct?

It's not my field, but I have to think that things designed to kill are harder to deal with than things that aren't.

[Sprocket]

Re: Infectious prions vs. bioweapons-

Found some new reference material, and it turns out that my previous take on this was backwards! ::laugh ::tongue

Apparently since prions are just proteins, they're a lot harder to defend against than viruses or bacteria. AFA what I could tell from my sources, thermal depolymerization is the only way to eliminate this stuff - medical autoclaving (much less simple cooking) doesn't affect them in the least.

Since I'm considering pegging an "immunity to bioweapons" feat as M-Sta 6, AFAICT it seems that an "immunity to infectious prions" fest would be pegged as M-Sta 7. Does that sound accurate/plausible to you folks?

[Alex Green]

No one has weaponized prions yet?

And that's probably good... especially since we need to fill out the top.

[Sprocket]

No one has weaponized prions yet?

AFAIK, in RL we're still trying to figure out the mechanics of how they work. I'd hope that no one's been crazy enough in RL to try & weaponize them, but that's probably wishful thinking on my part.

In the Nova Age, I can definitely see work being done with prions, even if it's just to cook up some workable defenses against them. PU/Proteus would definitely consider weaponized prions to be "ultrablack" biotech.

And that's probably good... especially since we need to fill out the top.

Agreed, although there are still slots for M-Sta 2, 3 & 5 waiting to be filled. Might as well take care of all the low-rating feats before tackling the high-caliber ones.

[metaphysician]

Sounds about right.

Probably the best model to think of prions is "very simple self-replicating nano-disassemblers." They don't have biology, they don't interact with biology, they are just complex poisons that tear apart your proteins to make more poison.

( as for why they haven't been weaponized? Piss poor transmissability, for one, and extremely slow progression for the other )

[Sprocket]

Re: Prions-

OK, the "immunity to prions" feat will be added to the M-Sta 7 feats ASAP. Which leads to the next problem...

Re: Bioweapons-

As with all the other "immunity feats" so far I plan to include 3 examples in the "immune to bioweapons" feat. Should we use RL examples or those culled from the Aberrant & Trinity books (or a mix of both)?

EDIT: Scratch that last idea, I'm going to have to use RL examples. The only canon Nova Age bioweapon we have stats for is Kuro-Tek's "kiroshi virus", & a dynamo must have Adaptability to be immune to it. I've already picked a few likely candidates.

[SkyLion]

Could someone please remind me where the virulence rating chart is located again???

[Alex Green]

Could someone please remind me where the virulence rating chart is located again???

The Poison power has some, AB:WWI has the rest under the Bio-Manip power.

[Sprocket]

Re: Revised chart (05-01)-

Here's the current version of the chart, which has been filling up much quicker than I'd hoped. ::happy

Mega-Stamina 1

• Can shrug off a heavyweight boxer's best shot.

• Can soak damage caused by disease, immune to infection via open wounds.

• Ignore the dice penalties caused by the intense heat found in large fires.

• Immune to anthrax, cancer and the common cold.

• Unaffected by extreme levels of environmental pollution.

Mega-Stamina 2

• Completely exhaust 10 or more baseline sexual partners in a single session.

• Immune to scorpion glass toxin (see Aberrant: Underworld, p. 62), ricin and most forms of nerve gas.

• Unaffected by subsonic pain/nausea fields (see Aberrant: Year One, p. 108).

• x.

• x.

Mega-Stamina 3

• Immune to all forms of tear gas.

• Can shrug off the impact of a 5 story fall.

• Unaffected by the extremes of atmospheric and/or liquid pressure, such as sudden exposure to vacuum or ocean-floor water pressure.

• Unaffected by toxic cyanide compounds (i.e. hydrogen cyanide, sodium cyanide, potassium cyanide & mercury cyanide).

• x.

Mega-Stamina 4

• Can shrug off being hit by a car.

• Can soak damage caused by radiation - soft radiation is considered bashing and hard radiation is considered lethal - without automatically losing Health Levels.

• Immune to HIV/AIDS, leprosy and "killer" strains of influenza.

• Recover from crippling injuries in one month.

• Unaffected by caesium, polonium and irradiated thallium poisoning.

Mega-Stamina 5

• Immune to Ebola fever, Marburg fever and Pneumatic plague.

• x.

• x.

• x.

• x.

Mega-Stamina 6

• Immune to bioweapons such as weaponized tularemia, Machupo virus and smallpox.

• Recover from crippling injuries in 23 days.

• Swim across the Pacific Ocean nonstop.

• x.

• x.

Mega-Stamina 7

• Immune to infectious prions, such as the ones that cause Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, Fatal familial insomnia and Kuru.

• x.

• x.

• x.

• x.

Mega-Stamina 8

• x.

• x.

• x.

• x.

• x.

Mega-Stamina 9

• x.

• x.

• x.

• x.

• x.

Mega-Stamina 10

• Recover from crippling injuries in 15 days.

• x.

• x.

• x.

[SkyLion]

Of course adaptability and Health would actually negate much of these with only Mega Stamina 1 right? This is strictly unenhanced base feats?

[Sprocket]

Yes. Just as with the previous 2 feat charts, this one focuses on what a given dot rating of Mega-Stamina allows a Dynamo to do *without* counting the effects of enhancements. One reason these charts are needed is that there's no ordered progression AFA 99% of the enhancements - it's pretty much freeform.

[Sprocket]

Re: New feat batch idea-

Folks, here's an idea for your consideration: how long should a Dynamo expect to be able to engage in constant physical combat (or similar strenuous physical activity) at a given dot rating of Mega-Stamina before becoming exhausted? What would it take for a Dynamo to fight (against a mob of opponents, perhaps) for hours, days, weeks, months or years on end without anything but the briefest of respites?

[SkyLion]

Awesome question Spacely Sprocket!! ::biggrin

Well others can feel free to come up with something more elaborate but I like the simple approach.

M Stam

1 = Weeks (Up to a month)

2 = Months (Up to a year)

3 = Years (Up to 10) (Decade)

4 = Decades (Up to 10) (Century)

5 = Centuries (up to 10) (Millennium)

6 = Millennia (up to 10) (Decallennium?)

7 = Decallenniums (up to 10) (Centellennium??)

8 = Centellenniums (up to 10) (Megallenniums???)

9 = Megalleniums (up to 10) (DecaMegallenium????!)

10= DecaMegallenniums (up to 100) (Eon!! this one is for real...in geologic terms 1 Billion years! ::cool )

Now we know how long Divis Mal can fight for...an Eon! (or a trinity of Aeons!). ::happy

[Alex Green]

That seems like a lot. What happened to "a day" and "days"?

[metaphysician]

I agree. Add in "a full day" and "a full week" on the front end of the cycle, and shift everything down two steps, and it'd work.

A proviso, though: is this ignoring matters like food and sleep requirement? I'd actually be fine with waiving, more or less, the requirements for such while fighting a battle, only for the duration of the battle. IOW, if you engage in one more or less non-stop fight for a week, then you can keep it up if you have at least mega-stamina 2. . . but once the battle ends, there's a good chance you'll first crash for a day, then devour everything edible in sight.

[SkyLion]

That seems like a lot. What happened to "a day" and "days"?

Beacuse a normal human can already stay awake and fight etc. for a day or days. At Mega Stamina one you can automatically go for weeks without sleep, so I figured a good place to start for constant strenuous activity would be a week. Keep in mind what Mega Atts are here too. An increae from 1 to 2 isnt doubling capability. Its a logarithmic progression towards godhood.

It may be alot at the higher end. I actually had to skip by a factor of 100 instead of 10 for Mega Stam 10, just because I thought it would be cool and appropriate for it to max out at an Eon. ::happy

[Alex Green]

I think a normal human is getting significant die pool penalties with "days".

[SkyLion]

And well they should! But a Mega Stamina 1 nova can go weeks with no sleep, so my scale was based on that.

[Alex Green]

...a Mega Stamina 1 nova can go weeks with no sleep...

Justify this please.

[SkyLion]

Core rules page 160. 1 dot:

Stupendous: You can go for weeks without sleep, and your healing rates are tripled.

[Sprocket]

::blink Looks like I've stirred up something lively here... ::happy

AFA SkyLion's reference to "going sleepless for weeks", it checks out in the listing on p. 160. Question is, does that match up well with the "feats of endurance" rules on p. 234?

[SkyLion]

Page 234:

Characters with Mega Stamina find such feats exponentially easier, perhaps even automatic.

[Sprocket]

Perhaps I should've put the question like this: Is one Mega-die plus the 3 free dots of Endurance enough to make the color text "go without sleep for weeks" accurate instead of being hyperbole?

[SkyLion]

Well the section on page 234 refers us to page 255 for a table on the Endurance skill total. Unfortunately it seems to have been forgetten about because there is no mention of it in that section. Presumably this would have been analagous to the Migth feat table.

I would hesitate to call that section Hyperbole. Or any of the Mega Atts at low level for that matter. The higher end gets to be more like that, which is why earlier in this thread I reccommended upping the soak bonuses at higher levels of mega stamina to allow for missle bouncing etc. It would make it more in line with the other mega atts, for which mega staminas progression seems rather weak. More design by commitee I suspect.

In any case, I think the go without sleep for weeks thing is pretty good, not detrimental or unbalancing in any way and fits the flavor text and genre source material. What did you think of my rpopsed table Mr. Sprocket?

[BcAugust]

Eh, there's a profound difference between going without sleep and the amount of time you can deal with strenuous activity like fighting. For instance, I've gone five days without sleep(Which, by the way, I never, ever recommend), but more then ten or twenty minutes of strenuous activity make me need a break.

Even in the modern day, it's very unusual for heavy physical fighting to last for an hour uninterrupted. Moving it to a day at Mega Stamina one is still very impressive enough.

[archer]

Perhaps I should've put the question like this: Is one Mega-die plus the 3 free dots of Endurance enough to make the color text "go without sleep for weeks" accurate instead of being hyperbole?

I think it's accurate, but only if referring to average levels of activity. Strenuous activity, like combat, should reduce the amount of time even a Mega-Stamina nova can go without sleep.

[SkyLion]

I think it's accurate, but only if referring to average levels of activity. Strenuous activity, like combat, should reduce the amount of time even a Mega-Stamina nova can go without sleep.

Not so. According to the feats of endurance chart, Mega Stamina types get exponentially better at this sort of thing, not reduced.

[Alex Green]

Core rules page 160. 1 dot:

That's fluff unless I can bounce missiles at 5.

Page 234: Characters with Mega Stamina find such feats exponentially easier, perhaps even automatic.

This is better.

I think it's accurate, but only if referring to average levels of activity. Strenuous activity, like combat, should reduce the amount of time even a Mega-Stamina nova can go without sleep.

Are we talking about constant Strenuous activity? If so then your basic human, even your basic peak human, can NOT fight for a day. If we're talking without resting then something closer to an hour works a lot better.

[Alex Green]

Perhaps I should've put the question like this: Is one Mega-die plus the 3 free dots of Endurance enough to make the color text "go without sleep for weeks" accurate instead of being hyperbole?

I doubt it. The mechanics are mechanics, but all of the others appear to be hyperbole put in without any consideration to how they effect the game.

At one dot... Mega-Dex: Juggle knives in zero-g with your feet.

Mega-Manip: Experienced con men regard your skills with reverence.

But if I have skill=0, base stat=1, and Mega-die=1, then my average succ on these things is 1.3.

Worse, when we come to actually comparing novas with this sorts of skills in *practice*, we're explicitly warned that inexperienced novas will likely fail against experienced/talented baselines. I think that's in the elites book when they talk about deal making and contract negotiation.

So let's look at the mechanics for staying awake. I think you roll once per night with increasing difficulties, right? If Mega-Stamina changed that to once every (1 + MStam) nights that would still be pretty huge, and with the double dipping you'd get by being able to roll your mega as well that'd give something like exponential growth without being absurd.

I think intense physical stuff would be like one roll every hour.

[SkyLion]

That's fluff unless I can bounce missiles at 5.

Oh! So its okay that immolate sucks...Noooo, we can't change that, but the auto feats listed under mega atts are wrong??? Dude, that irritates me. You like to cherrypick the book for what *you* think is absurd or reasonable or balanced.

I doubt it. The mechanics are mechanics, but all of the others appear to be hyperbole put in without any consideration to how they effect the game.

These are auto feats. In zero G? Care to juggle knives? Well go ahead! You can! I agree the bouncing missle stuff wasn't in perspective but I am inclined to think that the person who wrote up the soak rules was him or herself suffering from sleep deprivation. If we want to make Mega Stamina equal it should be like Mega Str: + 5 soak per dot. That'l bounce you some missles and be inline with the flavor text. Make for a good reason to up the immolate too.... ::sly

But if I have skill=0, base stat=1, and Mega-die=1, then my average succ on these things is 1.3.

Fuck that. Its stupid and you know it. I still think Novas should have to buy up their stat to before buying Mega Atts. No more of this 1 str 1 Mega Str bs. At least when I make my characters I always build them this way. More believable and hey! Its more efective at getting the point across, statistically speaking...

I think that's in the elites book when they talk about deal making and contract negotiation.

Not every nova erupts with Mega Maniplation. Without it of course you would be a sitting duck. You dont think DeVries hires then best mega manipulative lawyers?

So let's look at the mechanics for staying awake. I think you roll once per night with increasing difficulties, right? If Mega-Stamina changed that to once every (1 + MStam) nights that would still be pretty huge, and with the double dipping you'd get by being able to roll your mega as well that'd give something like exponential growth without being absurd.

Pft. I think its absurd how you cherrypick what you like and what you dont like. How you argue logic at one argument and then say "physics isnt our friend in abby" and argue blind devotion to the rules in another.

Exponential growth is waaaay more than what you are suggesting. Maybe not to the logarithmic scale I proposed but still pretty weak compared to exponential.

Why is everyone so keen to nerf Mega Stamina when Mega Str and Dex get the royal treatment? Hasn't it got the short shrift enough already? I mean I don't expect you all to adopt a +5 soak per dot...Noooo, Id never hear the end of that one...but lets just go and take the epic out of mega Stamina..... ::angry ::brick

[Alex Green]

Oh! So its okay that immolate sucks...Noooo, we can't change that, but the auto feats listed under mega atts are wrong??? Dude, that irritates me. You like to cherrypick the book for what *you* think is absurd or reasonable or balanced.

Are you seriously trying to claim that the feats are right?

These are auto feats. In zero G? Care to juggle knives? Well go ahead! You can!

I think the zero g part was supposed to make it harder, not easier. You throw things and they don't come down.

The mechanics part gives us hard facts, the fluff gives us, well, fluff. "Deadly in combat". "Missiles bounce". Loki regards you as an equal. Memory never fails you (so no Int roll needed?)

And they aren't all over estimates either. "Even a martial-arts master can not match your moves" was true at Mega-Dex 1. Super geniuses look at you with envy (also true at 1, not 2). As attractive as Helen of Troy (also true at 1, not 4). As cunning as Odysseus (also true at 1, not 4).

I agree the bouncing missle stuff wasn't in perspective but I am inclined to think that the person who wrote up the soak rules was him or herself suffering from sleep deprivation. If we want to make Mega Stamina equal it should be like Mega Str: + 5 soak per dot. That'l bounce you some missles and be inline with the flavor text. Make for a good reason to up the immolate too.... ::sly

Some day I'll run a game with "Alex's revised rules", i.e. *all* Megas give +5 auto succ per dot. But those won't be the generic rules.

I still think Novas should have to buy up their stat to before buying Mega Atts. No more of this 1 str 1 Mega Str bs. At least when I make my characters I always build them this way. More believable and hey! Its more efective at getting the point across, statistically speaking...

Ditto. And I won't stop there. If you want to buy a mega, *any* mega, it has to be in theme and that means you have to have a 5 in the underlying attribute and you MUST also buy 5 dots in an associated skill.

Pft. I think its absurd how you cherrypick what you like and what you dont like. How you argue logic at one argument and then say "physics isnt our friend in abby" and argue blind devotion to the rules in another.

IMHO it's not cherrypicking to refuse to take one phrase that's out of context and build game mechanics around it when we have *many* examples of similar phrases that simply aren't true. Let me reverse the question. How big an attack should Immolate be to make it (sometimes) "extremely effective in combat"?

Exponential growth is waaaay more than what you are suggesting. Maybe not to the logarithmic scale I proposed but still pretty weak compared to exponential.

Let's look at the other Megas.

M-Strength goes by

(1) 4x baseline strength of 5.

(2) 10x mega-1

(3) 2.5x

(4) 2x

(5) 2x

(6+) => 2x

Ignoring Q6+ that's an average of 4x per dot.

Well, OK. This implies that (1+MS) is too weak.

But moving from hours to days is 24x, and moving from days to weeks is 7x. How about 2^MS ?

[Alex Green]

Well, OK. This implies that (1+MS) is too weak.

OK, more than implies. I did the math, assuming you automatically fail when you hit a +2 diff over what your mega can bring down (i.e. at +6 diff at Mega-4), and that we're talking an accumulative +1 per day...

My method produces failure at:

Mega-Zero: Day 2

1: Day 8

2: Day 15

3: Day 24

4: Day 35

And I didn't do mega-5.

[Sprocket]

Re: My take on SkyLion's "non-stop fighting/strenuous activity" chart-

I'm withholding judgment on it for the moment. I like the basic idea, but the comments made by metaphysician & others are making good sense AFAICT. We'll likely work out some sort of compromise.

[Alex Green]

Feats of Endurance: General Rule

The ST should decide what the interval is at which Endurance needs to be rolled and when the difficulty increased (usually by +1). However a nova with Mega-Stamina 1 only needs to roll Endurance every other interval. With every dot of Mega-Stamina this ability doubles. Thus Mega-Stamina Novas only need to roll every 2^(Dots in Mega-Stamina) intervals.

Example: To stay awake you must make an Endurance roll at the end of every day, with a +1 difficulty accumulative starting on the next.

Joe Nova with a 5 Stamina and 3 dots in Endurance rolls 8 dice on the first day, 8 with a +1 difficulty on the 2nd, and so forth. Failure results in sleep or sharply reduced die pools for the day.

If he had Mega-Stamina 2 he'd have to make a roll at the end of 4 days, and then he'd have to roll again with a +1 Difficulty at 8 days, etc. He can use his Mega-Stamina to reduce the penalty as normal.

Intervals will vary. Sporting events might be every half an hour or an hour. Combat might be every 10 to 30 minutes.

Alex's Editorial Comment: So with an interval of one woman Mega-Stamina 2 means you make a normal roll after 4 and a +1 after 8, so our feat works.