Aberrant RPG - I think this stuff does Aggravated damage. . .

[metaphysician]

Chlorine Trifluoride

[Centimane]

That was a highly entertaining article!

[Jeremiah]

That was a highly entertaining article!

Agreed. That shit is awesome.

[SkyLion]

Heh...Bodymorph anyone???

[Sprocket]

Yep, that's one nasty compound! I can easily see people who are crazy/desperate/reckless enough circa 2040s-early 2060s attempting to use this stuff as a literal "scorched earth" weapon. I can only guess how much farmland could be near-irredeemably poisoned by torching a few acres of pasture with this horrendous stuff. ::devil

[metaphysician]

Well, I'd tend to think that fluorine compounds have a short lifespan in the environment, relatively speaking, simply because they are so reactive. Eventually, they'll all have formed biologically non-active compounds.

Of course, in the interim, they'll have burned, poisoned, or exploded everything in the area first. . .

[Sprocket]

I guess we'd need an EON poster with some greater-than-average knowledge of chemistry (that counts me out! ::laugh ) for this compound's effectiveness as an environment-wrecking weapon to be figured. Although what gets burned by the stuff would also be a factor - a few acres of sorghum might not do much additional damage, but the chemical plant a few kilometers down the road from there would make a more logical target. ::devil

[Arashi]

I guess we'd need an EON poster with some greater-than-average knowledge of chemistry

I'll try my best ^^

You can't use that stuff to near-irredeemably poison farmlands; like Metaphysician said, it's just too reactive. It explodes at contact with water and water is found in every enviroment. Even if you find farmland without water (on which nothing will grow, anyway) the stuff will burn away in the next rain - if it holds that long, it could also ignite with the soil or nearly anything around.

While the article is really cool ::biggrin , I think that stuff is not very useable. Yes, it is used for industrial processes and industrial cleaning, but for the typical EON or Abberant character, its far to unstable. Or would you like to carry that stuff around when somebody starts shooting at you??

Things that ignite with sand and explode like hell with water sound cool, but I'm sure for every application there is something that serves the circumstances better and is more secure.

Unless you're some crazy-brain Abberant who just wants to play, of course ::devil ::devil

Think of TNT, you got explosives that are far more powerfull, but TNT is used everywhere because it is really save. No use of using chrystalin Nitrogen with quantitudes more power if you can't bring it save where you want i to explode, because it nearyl ignites if you just stare at it.

[metaphysician]

Actually, its even worse. Apparently the *only* thing this stuff doesn't make burn like rocket fuel is fluorine oxides.

As for usages in game. . . well, actually, one of the characters in Ancient Aberrant has something called the 'Earth Eating Acid' that sounds suspiciously like a volume-concentrated derivative of this stuff.

( thankfully, trying to use Matter Creation to dump a few thousand tons of the stuff on your opponents *probably* wouldn't work, given the damage cap. . . )

[metaphysician]

Oh, and the guy has a bunch of other articles. . .

Stuff He Won't Work With

[Rorx]

( thankfully, trying to use Matter Creation to dump a few thousand tons of the stuff on your opponents *probably* wouldn't work, given the damage cap. . . )

On the other hand, unless there is something in the Errata I don't have (a pointer to it would be nice.. ::biggrin ), there is no damage cap on Molecular Manipulation! ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

But what do we call the effect?

All of this sounds to me like a lethal attack. Since baselines have lived through it (at least sometimes), your generic q-bolt probably does more damage.

Core problem is baselines don't soak lethal damage.

[SkyLion]

Baselines cant soak lethal or agg. And this flourine stuff sounds like pretty much nothing gets to soak it...

[Sprocket]

I guess the deciding factor would be whether the baselines who survived exposure to this stuff were either permanently maimed by it or if their injuries healed over time. If the article fits the first circumstance (permanently maimed), then it causes aggravated damage just like flesh-eating viruses.

[Alex Green]

I guess I don't really have a problem calling it Agg, but that's not the same as saying MC or MA should be able to snap their fingers and create it any more than they should be able to create a nuke or anti-matter.

If you want an Agg attack using this stuff, then buy one and explain it as using this.

[Rorx]

I guess I don't really have a problem calling it Agg, but that's not the same as saying MC or MA should be able to snap their fingers and create it any more than they should be able to create a nuke or anti-matter.

If you want an Agg attack using this stuff, then buy one and explain it as using this.

That's a dangerous route to go down. I can see the point of limiting the damage you can do with something generated (as MC does, and MA probably should), but to say you can't do it when there are whole areas of chemistry which are either poisonous or easily explosive puts massive limits on these two powers.

In addition, as they are written, there is nothing to stop someone with MC or MA from creating/converting a nuke. The only restrictions should be do they really know how to make a working one, as opposed to what is in the open literature ::sly , and what difficulty factor do you apply to any work with transuranic elements and 'exotic' materials. ::wink

After all any character with even one dot in Science (hobby level) is going to know about basic acids like HF, HCl and H2SO4 [Even I can remember those and I last did chemistry over 20 years ago. ::ohmy ] More realistically, you should allow characters to use these sorts of things, but remind them before hand (or afterwards if you are feeling mean) that they will likely effect the area the character is in as well, and does he really have the means to protect himself and his colleagues from what he is trying to inflict on others?

Requiring high levels in Science and/or appropriate Specialities/Enhancements wouldn't be a bad suggestion?

[Alex Green]

In abby a nuke is probably 100 dice, call it 50[50]. It covers an area that requires Mastery or Mastery X2 to mimic. How do we reconcile that with a 6 dice of damage cap? Nor do I think handing out Mastery x2 area of effect is appropriate just because at a Mastery x2 level of damage it'd have them.

Rather than trying to explain a 6 die nuke that blows up a building I'd rather just say the effect is outside the player's limits and he can blow up that building with normal explosives. Effects that attempt to mimic powers that would require Q6 or higher automatically fail.

Thus no making nukes, tons of anti-matter, or little known and not well understood materials that inflict Agg damage over an area of city blocks. Actually no Agg damage period. MC isn’t supposed to be this massive uber-weapon, if that’s what you want, then buy a power more suited towards that like Disin.

I don’t see this as a “massive limit” on the power. Stopping them from creating broken effects isn’t the same as preventing them from using the power as it’s supposed to be used. Which includes making explosives and poisons BTW. If someone with MC wants to create a cloud of toxic gas, that’s fine with me.

MC can kill very large numbers of people, but it requires thought and creativity.

[Rorx]

I'm all for promoting thought and creativity ::biggrin and I'd happily say that those powers are incapable of creating objects/materials that do Aggravated damage.

As for limiting them against nukes etc, I'd suggest a general rule of upping the difficulty to massive levels and/or requiring inflated Q/Mastery in order to manifest transuranic elements. If they attempt it without those then they get something which ends up being just the surrounding explosive of a nuke and no radioactive material due to their error/lack of power.

Stopping someone creating simple chemicals like HF, HCl extra is more difficult to justify when they can simply create more complex ones like plastics, explosives, metal alloys etc. I'm not saying that perhaps you shouldn't do it, just that it's more difficult to justify with a logical reason. You could still make these fit within the damage cap I suppose by imposing errors in their concentration/distribution which lessen/improve with Q and dots in MC/MA.

[Alex Green]

As for limiting them against nukes etc, I'd suggest a general rule of upping the difficulty to massive levels and/or requiring inflated Q/Mastery in order to manifest transuranic elements. If they attempt it without those then they get something which ends up being just the surrounding explosive of a nuke and no radioactive material due to their error/lack of power.

Exactly. And that's a good idea, require both Q6 and Mastery.

Stopping someone creating simple chemicals like HF, HCl extra is more difficult to justify when they can simply create more complex ones like plastics, explosives, metal alloys etc. I'm not saying that perhaps you shouldn't do it, just that it's more difficult to justify with a logical reason. You could still make these fit within the damage cap I suppose by imposing errors in their concentration/distribution which lessen/improve with Q and dots in MC/MA.

I've no intention of preventing someone from making HCl, etc, but they still need to fit within the damage cap. Just because they're making HF rather than HCl doesn't mean they get to knock over Mega-Stamina Bricks.

[metaphysician]

Another option: doing aggravated damage with Matter Creation requires the Agg extra, effectively meaning non-Q6 novas have to max the power to even attempt it. I'd still include extra difficulty as well, for the actual power roll.

[SkyLion]

In abby a nuke is probably 100 dice, call it 50[50]. It covers an area that requires Mastery or Mastery X2 to mimic. How do we reconcile that with a 6 dice of damage cap? Nor do I think handing out Mastery x2 area of effect is appropriate just because at a Mastery x2 level of damage it'd have them.

Rather than trying to explain a 6 die nuke that blows up a building I'd rather just say the effect is outside the player's limits and he can blow up that building with normal explosives. Effects that attempt to mimic powers that would require Q6 or higher automatically fail.

Thus no making nukes, tons of anti-matter, or little known and not well understood materials that inflict Agg damage over an area of city blocks. Actually no Agg damage period. MC isn't supposed to be this massive uber-weapon, if that's what you want, then buy a power more suited towards that like Disin.

I don't see this as a "massive limit" on the power. Stopping them from creating broken effects isn't the same as preventing them from using the power as it's supposed to be used. Which includes making explosives and poisons BTW. If someone with MC wants to create a cloud of toxic gas, that's fine with me.

MC can kill very large numbers of people, but it requires thought and creativity.

I think the damage cap on these powers actually threatens verisimilitude regarding them, since the limits imposed are the product of game balancing and not on the actual.

I know its a common argument of Alex's that physics isn't our frind in abby (and apparently neither is chemistry). Matter creation and molecular manipulation are HUGE powers in the comic genre. I am reminded of such omnipotent characters as Mr. Myxtyplx (sp?), Captain Atom (I think) or the Doctor form the Authority. Rather than arbitrarily nerfing and using the canon damage cap Id rather see the power given its full potential, even if that means restricting it to the Q6+ crowd.

But thats just my opinion...

[Alex Green]

If we're going to let people create tons of anti-matter then it's Q8.