opnet [OpNet] something to think on

[Sandy Davis]

I have been thinking on something for a wile. What is faith, and what is religion?Do you have to have one to have the other?

I mean is it possible to have faith without a religion, or a religion without faith?

I would say yes, but I could be wrong.I am not sure.I see faith is the act of believing in something with no proof of that being true.Take the idea that there is a after life.Nearly ever religion and faith based systems have one, but there is no real proof of there being one.

Religion, on the other hand seems to be the act, or beliefs that some costumes,and rituals are need to please the object(s) of the religion.In most cases this is a gods or set of gods.This not always the case.It is just this way most of the time.

Now people may be thinking, well with what I just said, that I answered myself. Well, here is the tricky part, we have novas in the world, and they are claiming to be Gods.I do not know if they are or are not.I do not think they are.What I do know, is this, if Mal, is a God, then does it take any faith on my part to believe in him, and serve in his cult?After all he is living fleash,and talks to those who deems fit.

It is nothing like the gods of the old religions.After all, no one could prove that *GOD* was real.SO, does proof of your religion, take away from the faith you have?Or do you need a religion to have faith?I do not think there is an answer, but I am student of many things,and faith is one of them.

[ronin]

Miss.

You can have faith in many things without religion. You have faith your car will be there in the morning. You have faith you'll be able to buy milk when you get to the supermarket. You have faith you'll have the money to purchase the milk and you have faith the wallet containing the money will be in your pocket when you get there.

From my experience, "faith" is little more than a synonym for "assumption", the notable difference being that faith implies a kind of blindness, a willingness to assume without substantial evidence to back up a claim.

Religion, on the other hand, is little more than a codified set of dogmatic beliefs that are meant to create a connection to the divine, whether that's god, enlightenment, the inner light, whatever. While faith is certainly condusive to many religions, many people across the world follow religions and have no faith at all. Not because their religious dogma doesn't require it, but because they are religious only in name, going through the necessary motions in a vain attempt to fool the people around them.

Likewise, some religions don't require faith at all. Buddhism, notably, is a search for emptiness, the state of un-being, and nearly requires that you cease faith alongside everything else. Faith, belief, wealth, power -- these are all stones around the Buddha's neck.

Proof defies faith by very definition. If you prove anything, it is impossible to have faith in it any further. Faith is belief in something that isn't there or isn't assured. If it's there, if it's assured, it's impossible to have faith in it. Faith and proof are polar opposites.

And since the subject came up, the Cult of Mal is peopled with fools. But then, only time will tell with that one.

.ronin

[Walker]

Hmm, number of interesting points.

Well for what it's worth here's my two euro's

Faith is an anchor point, a map of reality, no matter what it is you are having faith in, it's an anchoring point for your mind.

You see the mind is little more than a collection of thoughts and feelings, faith is a way of providing a frame work for those thoughts and feelings, nothing more or less.

The power of the belief is always more important than the thing being believed in, at least where the mind is concerned in and of itself.

To put it another way, faith is a language using species way of providing a knowable thought for what may well be an ultimately unknowable thing. In other words - an assumption - as was so nicely put by ronin.

People do fall in love with their maps of reality whether you call it religion or science, superstition or rationality.

As to Nova's being God's well that's just another meaningless title, things are what they are.

If people want to believe that Novas are gods it's probably because they long for someone to come and sort out their personal problems. Problems which would be better sorted out by some reflection on themselves.

The above are just my assumptions of course, you could say I had faith in it though

[Jager]

But, is there "good" and/or "evil"?

Are all thought, motivations or actions moralistic, or can everything be explained and quantified in some manner, and therefore deny faith?

Is there an instinct for philisophical choice, or is everything we do a learned response?