Adventure! RPG: American Revenants - AR - Discussion Thread

[ProfPotts]

RE: Prof's Question (and in addition to what phoenix just posted):

The issue of gadgets can be looked at in much the same way as the potential for PCs dying. So, just as we're not going to be purposely setting up PCs for gruesome deaths, with no way of escape, we're also not going to purposely take your gadgets away from you, with no way of getting them back. But just as we're also not going to be coddling any PCs and fudging any dice rolls just to keep players alive and healthy (not that that happens in many games these days anyway), we're not going to safely tuck your gadgets away in our special Gadget Storage Locker until a suitably 'convenient' plot point comes up for us to reintroduce it. Basically, your gadget, just like you PC, can be irrevocably lost, but if you're smart and keep your head on straight neither of those things will happen to you.

Ah... still doesn't really answer my question, sorry - I'll try it another way... ::unsure

You know how in Adventure! you can start with a cool 'thingamagig' in two ways?

1) you take the Gadget Background (page. 146)

or

2) you spend some of your temporary starting Inspiration (page. 177)

In 'out of the box' Adventure! the difference between the two is that with 1) (taking the Background) although you can loose the Gadget, circumstances will conspire that you get it back (or get a replacement, etc.) at some point if it's lost, whilst with 2) (just spending a couple of Inspiration) means if you loose the thing it's as lost as any other item which may pop up in the game.

My point is that, if you're ruling that Gadgets don't get to come back, or get replaced, (which is, after all, what the Background is for in the first place), then what's the point (if any) of even allowing that Background in the game at all? Why not just rule that 'thingamagigs' have to be brought with starting Inspiration (as per the rules on page. 177)?

Although I can appreciate that lack of equipment is all part of the survival horror genre, as long as Dramatic Editing is in play anyway, what's the real disadvantage of allowing the Gadget Background to function as normal? The ability of a Gadget to always find its way back to the guy who paid the dots for it doesn't have to be a mystical 'Thor's hammer' thing - it's just another form of Dramatic Editing: i.e. the item in question returns through chance & happenstance (or the character just happens on a suitable replacement, or whatever). More an 'Indiana Jones' hat' thing than anything which defies the laws of physics.

Essentially, a 'Gadget' which doesn't return to the related character isn't a Gadget at all, it's just an item built with the superscience rules - & anyone can start with a couple of them by blowing some starting Inspiration instead of valuable permanent chargen dots.

[archer]

Oh, hells yes. ::devil How did I not read this thread before now? I am so in I was there before you guys even thought of this. ::biggrin

Burt Gummer, anyone? ::ultracool

[Centimane]

Oh, hells yes. ::devil How did I not read this thread before now? I am so in I was there before you guys even thought of this. ::biggrin

Burt Gummer, anyone? ::ultracool

I actually had to google that name to figure out who you were talking about. But now that I have: ::laugh

[ProfPotts]

While waiting for a reply to my last question, I've got an additional question about this...

... But being able to lose a Background is nothing new. You can piss off a Mentor, burn your Sanctum to the ground, etc...

Is this how you guys are planning on running Backgrounds in this game? As far as I'm aware that's how Background are run in the old World of Darkness - but then again, in the old WoD you can also gain Backgrounds without spending any XP. As far as I'm aware the standard Trinity Universe way to do Backgrounds is that if your Mentor is killed, or your Sanctum burnt to the ground, then you don't lose the dots on your sheet - you paid for them after all - they just sit there until a suitable replacement comes along (i.e. if your Mentor 'Old Bob' gets shot, & the next week you meet 'The Colonel' you don't have to shell out even more XP to take the guy as a new Mentor).

I myself, as a great fan of game balance, prefer the Trinity Universe way of doing thinds; but it's fine if you guys are running things differently - it's just something us player-types would probably like to know before we go spending those valuable chargen resources on disposable Backgrounds... ::sly

A question about the game world now: did the [insert end-of-the-world incident of choice here] only wipe out the humans? I presumed it did to begin with, but since you've said that it'd be impossible to find a thousand (or 'a veritable zoo's worth') of dogs in a city the size of New York, does that mean that it's effected animals as well as people? (Presumably it's the lack of available dogs which means you can't take that level of Menagerie, rather than the 'weirdness' of having power over them - since stuff like Mindhammer still appears to be okay, right? Or have I got that wrong? ::confused )

Yet another question: certain Knacks (such as Threat Awareness & Cloud the Mind) are stated as only working on 'living targets' - will all such Knacks be effectively useless against the 'undead' hordes?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm not trying to be annoying here, just trying to get stuff straight in my head.

[phoenix]

Is this how you guys are planning on running Backgrounds in this game? As far as I'm aware that's how Background are run in the old World of Darkness - but then again, in the old WoD you can also gain Backgrounds without spending any XP. As far as I'm aware the standard Trinity Universe way to do Backgrounds is that if your Mentor is killed, or your Sanctum burnt to the ground, then you don't lose the dots on your sheet - you paid for them after all - they just sit there until a suitable replacement comes along (i.e. if your Mentor 'Old Bob' gets shot, & the next week you meet 'The Colonel' you don't have to shell out even more XP to take the guy as a new Mentor).

I think we've [or maybe "I've"] decided that if "Old Bob" dies, you can keep that Background dot in layover until you meet "The Colonel," until you storm your parents' old apartment and make friends with their dog, or until you meet "Faithful Bob" the NPC and he latches onto you. In other words, no, dots can transfer over to other Backgrounds.

A question about the game world now: did the [insert end-of-the-world incident of choice here] only wipe out the humans? I presumed it did to begin with, but since you've said that it'd be impossible to find a thousand (or 'a veritable zoo's worth') of dogs in a city the size of New York, does that mean that it's effected animals as well as people? (Presumably it's the lack of available dogs which means you can't take that level of Menagerie, rather than the 'weirdness' of having power over them - since stuff like Mindhammer still appears to be okay, right? Or have I got that wrong?)

No, as far as any of you have seen it's only humans that have been hit so far. There are plenty of dogs running around, as well as other city wildlife. It's not that the dogs aren't there, it's just that Menagerie can't be used in this game in the way you describe. I know I wasn't completely explicit about this kind of thing, but I thought the phrase "Usefulness is okay, exoticism isn't" and "don't push it" regarding the more pulp-ish Backgrounds covered it pretty well.

I know this is a restriction on the way it's used in Adventure! The reasons for this have to do with the kind of game that Cottus and I plan on running, compared to the kind of game that White Wolf planned on Adventure! being used for. So we've been making modifications, sometimes on the fly, which brings me to your earlier question...

Essentially, a 'Gadget' which doesn't return to the related character isn't a Gadget at all, it's just an item built with the superscience rules - & anyone can start with a couple of them by blowing some starting Inspiration instead of valuable permanent chargen dots.

Okay, I think now that I made the decision to restrict the "return to sender" feature of Gadgets without really thinking it through. You people complained and you made some good points, so I'm taking Cottus's good advice and flip-flopping.

Gadgets now return to you even if you lose them, and are not at all likely to be destroyed; if they are, the Background dots will still be usable in the future. Gadgets should still be in synch with the setting (still no lightsabers) in spite of their sophisticated or high-quality nature, and you're still strongly advised to ask about the concept before working it all out so Cottus and I can say whether or not it's going to work in the game. [i'm sure you've figured this out already, but there may or may not be things we're not telling you about the setting to this game, so excuse our close-lippedness. ::sly ]

Is that satisfactory to everyone? I should have thought that through more; hopefully you'll all indulge my inexperience at this... ::unsure

Yet another question: certain Knacks (such as Threat Awareness & Cloud the Mind) are stated as only working on 'living targets' - will all such Knacks be effectively useless against the 'undead' hordes?

Well, some are and some aren't. Threat Awareness does work against zombies; Cloud the Mind also works pretty much the same. Yes, we have a list somewhere. No, you can't see it. ::tongue

More seriously, I'm aware that the question of whether or not your Knacks will work would probably be very important to whether or not you decide to buy them, or indeed whether or not you decide to play a Mesmerist. In general, I will say that as a rule of thumb, zombies count as more or less living beings (for power mechanics purposes) without much in the way of a mind. Mesmerists will not be getting short shrift in terms of influencing them.

Actually, I think I will post a list a little later describing what effects the various Knacks have on zombies.

Phew!

[SkyLion]

Oooh...now that makes me want to consider playing a mesmerist-necromancer type. Not a real "necromancer" mind you, but someone with the command power being applied to zombies... ::devil ::devil ::devil

[Heritage]

For those of us with new extraordinary abilities, do we start them game knowing we have them (as of a few days ago), or do we need to discover them 'onscreen'?

[phoenix]

You should discover them onscreen. It'll be fun! ::happy ::devil

[ProfPotts]

Is that satisfactory to everyone? I should have thought that through more; hopefully you'll all indulge my inexperience at this...

All satisfactory indeed! Thanks for clearing all that up.

Actually, I've been thinking since this thread started that this game looks like one of the better thought-out games I've seen presented here: you guys obviously have a clear picture of what you're aiming at, & a strong grasp of the rules & the way you're going to apply them - not to mention some great writing so far. Hey - I even sat up to watch 'Land of the Dead' last night just to get me in the mood... Keep up the good work! ::thumbup

[SkyLion]

I just wanted to add publicly what I said to Cottus and Phoenix over Im...which is that this game appeared overnight and within a single day we already had approved characters posting IC...that has got to be some kind of Eon record! You two lovers should be proud of you 'lovely' new baby... ::happy

,,

(BUt don't ask them where they hid their story notes... ::innocent ::tongue )

[Heritage]

Hmm, I've noticed that most of the free Background dots offered from choosing your Origin aren't of much use in the post-zombie world; any chance of allowing reasonable substitutions, like maybe one free dot in a related Ability instead? Not a big issue, but hey, every little dot counts ::smile

[Centimane]

Hmm, I've noticed that most of the free Background dots offered from choosing your Origin aren't of much use in the post-zombie world; any chance of allowing reasonable substitutions, like maybe one free dot in a related Ability instead? Not a big issue, but hey, every little dot counts ::smile

As someone who's spent more time recently as a player than as an ST I can definitely feel your paing there, but actually, you guys don't get any free Background dots at all. I know, it's kind of rough, but it was a decision that phoenix and I came to only after a very long chat on AIM. You can take the backgrounds listed in the char-gen section here, but you have to use Inspiration points or Bonus points to buy them. I can see why you might have been confused though as, looking back, the rules don't specifically mention the free backgrounds that an A! character normally receives, but for clarification, you don't get any of those either. Sorry.

[Heritage]

As someone who's spent more time recently as a player than as an ST I can definitely feel your paing there, but actually, you guys don't get any free Background dots at all. I know, it's kind of rough, but it was a decision that phoenix and I came to only after a very long chat on AIM. You can take the backgrounds listed in the char-gen section here, but you have to use Inspiration points or Bonus points to buy them. I can see why you might have been confused though as, looking back, the rules don't specifically mention the free backgrounds that an A! character normally receives, but for clarification, you don't get any of those either. Sorry.

Ah, ya big meanie ::tongue

It's cool - to be honest, I only asked because I never even knew you got freebies with Origins until I made Princess Grenda. No big deal.

[ProfPotts]

It's cool - to be honest, I only asked because I never even knew you got freebies with Origins until I made Princess Grenda.

Hah! It always pays to read the rules... ::sly ::tongue ::wink

Well, finally got my character submission in - now that I can feel all nice & secure that my shotgun & chainsaw aren't going anywhere... ::biggrin

... of course, now they're gonna' make me hunt for cartridges & petrol... ::rolleyes

[SkyLion]

Hah! It always pays to read the rules... ::sly ::tongue ::wink

Well, finally got my character submission in - now that I can feel all nice & secure that my shotgun & chainsaw aren't going anywhere... ::biggrin

... of course, now they're gonna' make me hunt for cartridges & petrol... ::rolleyes

,,

"The Evil got into my hand, and it went Bad. So I cut it off at the wrist." ::devil

,,,,

Re: cartridges and petrol

,,,,

Repeat after me: Minor offscreen effect. "Theres a gas station a few blocks from here..." Minor Extension: "Yeah...near the hunting store..."

,,

::getsome

[ezekiel]

Repeat after me: Minor offscreen effect. "Theres a gas station a few blocks from here..." Minor Extension: "Yeah...near the hunting store..."

LOL! ::laugh

Hah! It always pays to read the rules... sly.gif tongue.gif wink.gif

Well, finally got my character submission in - now that I can feel all nice & secure that my shotgun & chainsaw aren't going anywhere... biggrin.gif

... of course, now they're gonna' make me hunt for cartridges & petrol... rolleye13.gif

Yay! You should decide if your character is the type of person that frequent's strip joints btw...guess where I spent my background (bonus)? That's right, reputation: Star Stripper.

(There should really be a pole dancing smiley)

P.S. I'm re-watching 28 Days Later tonight...

[Centimane]

(There should really be a pole dancing smiley)

You could try hijacking Concrete Dragon's avatar. Not quite poledancing, but close. ::wink

[archer]

I have a lot of potentially annoying 'realism' and zombie questions, just to warn you STs. ::biggrin

BTW, Cottus, is my Burt Gummer style character okay? I saw your smiley, but I wasn't sure Phoenix also approved. He'll probably just be a daredevil with Heroic knacks and a whole lotta guns.

[SkyLion]

I just watched the Dawn of the Dead remake...28 Days later in next and 28 weeks is coming to the theatre near my house soon...can you say stoked?

[Alex Green]

Character Submitted: In the many hours of driving around yesterday I saw a road named "John Beer", so that's his name. ::laugh

[phoenix]

Archer, I don't know who Burt Gummer is apart from the Wikipedia article. But if Cottus says it's okay you're probably safe making up a sheet at least. We can poke at your backstory later. ::happy

[Centimane]

Ok, I just got done with another ST-chat with phoenix, and we've come to a decision regarding character backgrounds.

All PCs should roleplay through their first encounters with zombies, just like Zeke's character is about to do ( ::ohmy ). I know that some of you had other plans; we've already gotten more than one request to play a character who's already encountered more than one zombie. But since this is a "horror" game, we don't want the first IC encounters with zombies to be, "More undead hordes, eh? Bring it on!"

There is a reason for not allowing this. At the time of phoenix's first IC post (i.e. game-start) almost no one had encountered any zombies at all, because that's just how rare they were up until now (IC now, not 'now' now, heh).

So all players will need to take that into account as they create their backgrounds.

[ProfPotts]

Okay, so I'm pretty sure this is just me being thick, but I'm now confused as to what has & hasn't happened in the game background...

Originally I was under the impression that the 'event' had occured a few days or so before the game started, & wrote my back story with that in mind (i.e. [re]kill a few zomolas, gather starting equipment, head to the streets).

Next you guys told us that we can't have encountered any zombies yet... so I was thinking that the 'event' must have happened right now, so of thing...

... But then Cottus tells me in his last PM that my character wouldn't have been going to work or anything... which implies that we're back to the 'event' being a few days old...

::confused

Also, just how many of the dead are 'rising'? Is it a 'Night of the Living Dead' type thing where anyone not shot in the head automatically becomes zombified, or is it more of a one in a million (or thousand, or hundred) sort of thing? Again I was thinking one way, but you seem to be saying it's the other way...

[Alex Green]

It could be a combination of all that if the original hoard of zombies take a few days to rise. So first dead, first back, and god help us in about a week when everyone is back.

[Centimane]

'The Event' was a plague of unknown origin (of course).

It took about a week for everyone to get sick enough for the problem to be obvious, but by then everyone was sick, so there wasn't much anyone could do. During the following week (which ended just before game start) everyone died, mostly during the first few days, but some survived longer than others. Your characters are some of the survivors, and while they have witnessed plenty of sick and dying people, they haven't (at least not knowingly) seen any zombies.

As to how many of the dead are rising, or why, that's meant to be discovered IC, but as of right now there aren't so many that they're thronging the streets and chasing everything that moves in large, moaning hordes.

Also, I didn't mean that your character wouldn't have been going to work at all, I just meant that, seeing as how everyone (by game start) is already dead, it'd be kind of weird if he had shown up at S-Mart to work. He could easily have been showing up to work as late as two or three days ago however.

[ProfPotts]

It took about a week for everyone to get sick enough for the problem to be obvious, but by then everyone was sick, so there wasn't much anyone could do. During the following week (which ended just before game start) everyone died, mostly during the first few days, but some survived longer than others.

That kinda' begs for a lot more information on the last couple of weeks: what were they saying in the news? What were the emergency services doing? What was the response of the government? Did the military get involved? Did the CDC do anything? Were we (the public) told to do anything (e.g. 'stay in your homes' or 'report to the nearest hospital')? Was travel restricted? Were there reports of similar incidents around the world? What did religious leaders have to say about it? Etc., etc...

Two weeks is a long time in media terms, & I'm pretty sure that most characters in modern-day New York have access to a TV...

With a two week build up I'm having a hard time seeing why we didn't all just 'run for the hills' when it started to get really bad - after all, who's going to be insane enough to hang around plague central? The only people left in the city should be coma patients... ::sly

[Heritage]

I have just one quick question on background/setting issue: what time of year is it? Just in terms of clothing and supplies, and the state of corpses... ::unsure

[Alex Green]

With a two week build up I'm having a hard time seeing why we didn't all just 'run for the hills' when it started to get really bad - after all, who's going to be insane enough to hang around plague central?

By the time people started dying, you were already sick, and you knew it. So... if your best chance for survival is that cure the gov says they're working on, do you stay in the big city where the cure is going to be distributed or do you head for the hills where it isn't going to show up?

[ProfPotts]

By the time people started dying, you were already sick, and you knew it. So... if your best chance for survival is that cure the gov says they're working on, do you stay in the big city where the cure is going to be distributed or do you head for the hills where it isn't going to show up?

Well, exactly - which is just the sort of reason we kinda' need to know some of the stuff I mentioned... our guys may start out stumbling around blind, but they themselves won't necessarily know that the TV was spinning them a crock... ::wink

[archer]

Well, exactly - which is just the sort of reason we kinda' need to know some of the stuff I mentioned... our guys may start out stumbling around blind, but they themselves won't necessarily know that the TV was spinning them a crock... ::wink

And then of course there's the riot factor. Sick or no, unless it's a completely incapacitating illness, there will be many people storming hospitals and government buildings(some with children in tow). Mass hysteria leads to panic, which leads to riots. Martial law, curfews and massive police presence would likely be the order of the day. The President of the United States, along with many other high-ranking government officials, would likely go hide in an isolated bunker somewhere.

If it was truly a plague of this level, the CDC would have shut everything down. Instructions to the public would likely be to stay at home and avoid all contact with other people, in an effort to contain the spread of the (assumed)virus. Quarantine would be the order of the day. Medical units from both civilian and military life would probably have self-contained decontamination areas and research laboratories. Personnel would be in Tyvek suits and SCBAs to limit their exposure.

Honestly, the way I view the situation unfolding is a mix between Dawn of the Dead and Outbreak. There would be a massive(though obviously ineffective) government and medical response, with all the trimmings that go with it.

[SkyLion]

Does that mean you took my advice and rented Dawn of the Dead today Arch?

[Alex Green]

IMHO it's best to follow the rule of great drama.... start small, and build.

The initial plague has an incubation time and little to no symtums. What is reported is an outbreak of the flu, maybe in combo with an outbreak of allergies. If this occured during an actual outbreak of the flu and allergy sesson that would hit below the belt. During this "incubation" time it spreads like wild fire but few if any notice. (Think AIDS in the early form).

This would be mostly *before* our recorded time of the outbreak.

Then it starts to get bad. It progresses. Over two weeks the early people who were infected early start to get really sick, then progressivly more and more do. Few attempts are made to "issolate" or "quarenteen" because most of the "uninfected" are in fact already infected and it's everywhere. In addition, even these early stages aren't all that bad in most people. Keep in mind that tens of thousands of people die every year from the flu. The hope is that the general population will recover without too much of a problem... but they don't.

Hospitals are over run with corspes and bodybags fill the streets, but the government does say they are working on a cure and people should stay home. Some panic and flee, but most don't want to be in crowds so rioting is little and rare.

[phoenix]

Some clarification is in order. As Cottus said, it took "about a week for everyone to get sick enough that the problem was obvious." Think of that as the incubation period. Nobody's showing any symptoms, but everyone's spreading the disease to fifty people a day, until by the end of the week pretty much everyone everywhere is infected [...or are they?]. Anyway, people don't have any idea of the problem during that time. How could they?

Then people started getting sick. Lots and lots of people. It was in the news; there was utter panic. Politicians made promises and firm, confident statements showing leadership and optimism. But a significant percentage of humanity died that very day. There was excellent coverage on the news, enough that you know that this plague is worldwide in nature. But the anchor was coughing when she said that. The next day there was a significant decrease in coverage - not because there wasn't anything to cover, but because they lacked the manpower to cover it all.

And the day after that, there wasn't any news. ::unsure

[This is at least partly because I doubt my ability to write this kind of thing without heavily ripping off Stephen King. I strongly recommend The Stand for anyone looking to get in the mood for this game, or just looking for a good read.]

[Alex Green]

Interesting. The shear speed and scope of the infection implies interesting things. Not that the PCs have anyway to find out, but it'd be interesting to know if someone in the very outback was spared it. Guy takes a two week trip out to sea and misses it.

But that's an IC thing. I've often felt that the Dawn of the Dead type thing there are multiple ways to spread the disease, and maybe even a paradime shift. Magic comes back and everyone with the "zombie genes" becomes a carrier of the super-flu. Something like that.

[SkyLion]

Archer, I don't know who Burt Gummer is apart from the Wikipedia article. But if Cottus says it's okay you're probably safe making up a sheet at least. We can poke at your backstory later. ::happy

,,

Burt!

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More Burt!

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Burt and Ash!

[ProfPotts]

Cheers Phoenix, that clears quite a lot up.

Hmmm... I'm still having problems thinking up a good reason why, if there are no zombies (which we know of yet), my character would be wondering around with his signature chainsaw & shotgun...

... can my guy just arrive on the scene of someone else's plotline, all geared up & covered in dirt & blood? Maybe after that person's first encountered the undead (or during their encounter) - would that preserve your timeline okay?

If not, then I guess I can rewrite him so that he's, I don't know, a tree surgeon or something... ::unsure ::tongue ::wink

[SkyLion]

Why not have him find his items in game? I have a signature weapon for my character, but he is going to go through a few different things first before he finds what really works. He starts the game unarmed.

,,

The reason I mention it is because I had a very similar image of entering the game having killed a few and learned a few things, covered in blood etc. But they talked me into the idea of playing the horror right from the very begining.

[Heritage]

Cheers Phoenix, that clears quite a lot up.

Hmmm... I'm still having problems thinking up a good reason why, if there are no zombies (which we know of yet), my character would be wondering around with his signature chainsaw & shotgun...

... can my guy just arrive on the scene of someone else's plotline, all geared up & covered in dirt & blood? Maybe after that person's first encountered the undead (or during their encounter) - would that preserve your timeline okay?

If not, then I guess I can rewrite him so that he's, I don't know, a tree surgeon or something... ::unsure ::tongue ::wink

Well you could go by 'the office' to pick them up in your first post, or maybe you're a home-owner with a workshed out back...::devil

[Alex Green]

Hmmm... I'm still having problems thinking up a good reason why, if there are no zombies (which we know of yet), my character would be wondering around with his signature chainsaw & shotgun...

You have a shotgun because there might be wild animals around, or wild people (raiders, looters, crazy types who didn't take the end of the world very well).

You have the chainsaw because it's a handy tool in this type of environment. Lots and lots of people locked up before they died, and rather than a lock pick you just take down the door.

[phoenix]

Magic comes back and everyone with the "zombie genes" becomes a carrier of the super-flu. Something like that.

Or maybe magic came back, and the prokaryotes figured out how to use it before you did... ::devil

So, Prof and Skylion are kinda in the same boat here (probably fighting over the paddle ::tongue ). "I made a character who's a somewhat normal person like you wanted" conflicts with "I planned for my character to be well armed enough to handle a zombie apocalypse." Those are both very good things, for several reasons. One is that a big part of this game's conflict is about normal people who are forced into extraordinary, hellish situations, and how they adapt, toughen and maybe even thrive. That's why we want that adaptation (and those hellish situations) to occur "on-screen." And frankly, if your weapons can be written into a backstory, they can be written into the game.

Skylion expressed this nicely when I talked to him. Like he said just now, his character - a medical doctor - has a signature Gadget weapon, which is something that no doctor would have. He compared the process of working your way up the weapons ladder in a video game, when you start with the standard-issue revolver and have to work your way up to the sniper rifle and fuel rod gun. I'm not saying everyone has to do that, I'm saying that just because your weapon is "signature" doesn't mean you've always had it...

Remember, with Dramatic Editing and the special nature of Gadgets, your character is only unarmed until the moment he decides he needs a weapon. Hey, if it worked for Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction, it'll definitely work for you guys. ::ultracool