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Aberrant RPG - Low-Taint and elite novas in Teragen


Wanderer

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Greetnings, happy to come aboard these forums and let me express my deep appreciation for the efforts you have done to keep this wonderful game alive and expand it (FP and ABA are both very good and useful).

Now, a question that I've been reminded of, while reading ABA:

if a nova expresses interest and dedication in following Teras and helping the movement, but is unwilling (or essentially unable, such as a 1st Gen with the Taint Resistant Merit, or a True 2nd Gen) to push his personal evolution toward inhumanity (meaning he will work diligently to develop his powers, but won't or can't go the Taint/Chrysalis route), how would he be treated by fellow Teragens ??

The issue is, what is more important to belong among Teragen, willingness (and ability) visibly to forsake humanity, or dedication to the ideals of Teras ?

I guess that he would experience some social difficulties from the *unconscious* bad vibe Teragen have to Taint-less novas (such as True 2nd Gen), but consciously, Harvesters would likely give him the cold shoulders, while Casablancas and Pandaimonium would welcome him warmily, and Nova Vigilance and Primacy would base their reaction mainly on the character's role in the movement (i.e. if he's willing to fight for fellow Terats, they would be more welcoming). As for the Cult of Mal, I assume it could go both directions: Mal and Scripture would probably more accepting of such a character (mirroring the attitude of Mal vs. Orzaiz) than the Apostle.

For a related topic, now, let's instead (or also) assume that such a nova works like an elite, but still professes allegiance to Teragen and a code of honor roughly compatible to Teras: e.g. "I won't kill fellow novas unless in extreme self-defense, or if they going to be a severe threat to all novakind, but I have no qualms with letting baselines pay me handsomely to kill other baselines, and it's a good way to hone my abilities and train for the revolution". Such a character would likely not raise to the top tiers of elite popularity, due to his refusal to kill other elites, and his willingness to work for baselines would proabably sully his popularity somewhat with the most radical separatists (e.g. the Harvesters), but I think that NV and Primacy would not have many qualms with a combat-worthy trained nova willing to fight for nova defense and supremacy.

As a general note, Teragen disdains going elite, both for the nova loss of life for the sake of baslines, and for the implied exploitation, but if an elite acts to minimize the former, and makes it clear that he's doing it a voluntary lifestyle choice, but his ultimate sympathies go toward Teragen, how is going to be different ??

I'm asking this because of the strong affinities that exist between Teragen and some elite subcultures, (e.g. DeVries), so I think at least some novas should exist that both want to belong in Teragen, and work as elites.

Please discuss.

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Your basic analysis seems quite sound, overall. Harvesters would have a real problem with said nova, since he would be forsaking the true path to evolution (by their lights). Casablancas would be fine with him, by and large (Orzaiz amuses himself with baselines, does business with them, and still has a good rep). I'm not sure Nova Vigilance or Primacy would be quite as sanguine as you think. They'd like the combatant, but would be uneasy about the pandering to baseline economics. They think that Orzaiz, even with Mal's express approval, is a baseline-loving simp! While killing baselines for combat practice is fine by them, buying into the baseline money-loving process is a foolish diversion. Narcosis (and Pandemonium) have similar problems with acceptance. As for the Cult of Mal, if said nova set himself up with a crusader-style religious theme, he might be acceptable. Really, he would be reluctantly accepted by some, disdained by others, and hated by yet more. Factionalization of the Teragen guarantees a mixed response, but no one with an elite background is going to be loved. I think the Teragen book, p. 18, makes that clear. The inability to use Chrysalis would really be the damning point, since personal evolution thru Teras (and Chrysalis) is the hallmark of a true Terat. ::biggrin

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if a nova expresses interest and dedication in following Teras and helping the movement, but is unwilling (or essentially unable, such as a 1st Gen with Taint Resistance, or a True 2nd Gen) to push his personal evolution toward inhumanity (meaning he will work diligently to develop his powers, but won't or can't go the Taint/Chrysalis route), how would he be treated by fellow Teragens ??

Why would the Taint Resistance enhancement make a Nova 'essentially unable' to follow the 'Taint/Chrysalis' route? Taint Resistance doesn't stop all Taint, it just reduces the amount you get from taking the Node Background at high levels - & that can't be converted into Chrysalis anyway (the whole Chrysalis thing only applies to temporary Taint gained when acting in accordance with the character's chosen archetype). Taint Resistance's reduction of the impact of mental aberrations also makes no difference - the path of Teras is about becoming inhuman, but not about losing control of oneself.

The issue is, what is more important to belong among Teragen, willingness (and ability) visibly to forsake humanity, or dedication to the ideals of Teras ?

Forsaking humanity & following Teras are one & the same - that's the whole point, no matter which of the archetypes you choose. Naturally some will become 'visibly' less human than others, but the choice of aberrations is all part & parcel of the Nova (in theory) become their ultimate 'true' self - & in the end all aberrations, visible or not, are equally as 'inhuman' as any others of the same level. Sure a Marvel may end up looking like a Greek God, while a Monster ends up looking like a Cthulhu God - but each is as inhuman as the other - just in different ways.

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Why would the Taint Resistance enhancement make a Nova 'essentially unable' to follow the 'Taint/Chrysalis' route? Taint Resistance doesn't stop all Taint, it just reduces the amount you get from taking the Node Background at high levels - & that can't be converted into Chrysalis anyway (the whole Chrysalis thing only applies to temporary Taint gained when acting in accordance with the character's chosen archetype).

I was mainly thinking of True 2nd Gen novas here, and their possible place among Teragen, given its ideology looks quite accommodating to the sensibilities and nature of nova who never really were normal humans, and hence this faction should be among the most attractive to them. OTOH, they are essentially unable to develop Chrysalis (or Taint) to any real extent, so they would lack the most obvious way of fitting in (they also give somewhat of a bad vibe to the old generation). OTOOH, all 2nd Gen are the living proof that Teras is right: on a very essential level, novas are not humans anymore.

As it concerns 1st gen with Taint Resistance, well you're right on one level (they can get some substantial Taint from Node, Quantum, & tainted traits), OTOH, the Merit makes quite rare to accumulate any substantial amount of Chrysalis-useful temp Taint.

So in both cases, these novas would be in a peculiar situation among fellow Terats: they can fit in with word and deed, but they cannot fit in with the most ovious way: aspect. To a more or less complete degree, they can only develop their inhumanity only by psychology and powers, not by aberrations.

Sure a Marvel may end up looking like a Greek God, while a Monster ends up looking like a Cthulhu God - but each is as inhuman as the other - just in different ways.

Correct, to a degree, as it concerns the different social focuses (leadership vs. intimidation) of the two Archetypes. but I would reject the tiresome cliche that a Monster Terat would necessarily go the Mega-Ugly, hideousness way. Monster is about being mighty, intimidating, and fearsome, not revolting. You can develop Mega-Cha and positive Mega-App as part of your Monster Archetype and end up looking like Ares, Thor, Morrigan, Inanna, or Hercules instead of Chtulhu. It is entirely possible to develop a good "pretty" Monster without ever picking a "ugly" aberration. Black Thumb, Bulging Muscles, Glow, Colored Skin, Anima Banner, Energy Emission, Contagious, Radioactive, all fit the archetype, so do versions of Disturbing Voice, Unearthly Beauty, Fur/Feathers, & Hardened Skin, that look attractive if intimidating. E.g. Shrapnel

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Adherence to Teras, even if only lip service, is important in the Teragen. Personal evolution and philosophy are key to proper development. Cestus Pax is certainly an advanced nova (Marvel?), but he isn't going to fit as Teragen. A 2nd Gen nova could go into Chrysalis, but it would take forever to build up enough temporary Taint necessary. Refusal to try would be a social stigma, as Orzaiz and Zia have seen.

An elite of the right sort might be accepted as an ally, but many Teragen would be offended by his working for baselines. Really, it depends on the campaign, as Mal hopes to convert all novas in the end. If elites can be weaned away from baseline entanglements, they could be worthy adherents to Teras.

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Harvesters would have a real problem with said nova, since he would be forsaking the true path to evolution (by their lights). Casablancas would be fine with him, by and large (Orzaiz amuses himself with baselines, does business with them, and still has a good rep). I'm not sure Nova Vigilance or Primacy would be quite as sanguine as you think. They'd like the combatant, but would be uneasy about the pandering to baseline economics. They think that Orzaiz, even with Mal's express approval, is a baseline-loving simp! While killing baselines for combat practice is fine by them, buying into the baseline money-loving process is a foolish diversion. Narcosis (and Pandemonium) have similar problems with acceptance. As for the Cult of Mal, if said nova set himself up with a crusader-style religious theme, he might be acceptable.

I find myself mostly in agreement with your analysis of the subfactions, with one glaring exception: Nova Vigilance and Primacy. IMO, they would only be negatively impressed if the elite would look like seeking baseline wealth and influence, and a lifestyle of decadent baseline hedonism, as it were something worthwhile by itself. The average Teragen isn't yet a Q8 ubergod able to pull any mundane resource one may need out of one's butt with nova powers, and a good warrior/vigilante/revolutionary well understands the value of money to procure and maintain equipment, weapons, training, safehouses, bases, contacts, etc. IMO a pragmatic Teragen that mainly reinvests earnings from elite contracts this way would get approval from fellow NV/Pri radicals. So far, the revolution still needs money, too. That's one of the main reasons why figthing luminaries like Geryon, too (and Mal himself) do care about profits from licensing their image.

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The Primacy are nova supremacists that don't take baseline interaction well (Teragen, p.89). The thought of working for baselines even to propmote their cause would suck a lot. Nova Vigilance, on the other hand, could accept it as long as it didn't hurt/harm the nova cause. Personal preferences would apply, and there are no guarantees that even a right-thinking elite wouldn't suffer disdain for his impurity. A hard road to walk, but you could do it, and even earn grudging respect for your dedication.

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As it concerns 1st gen with Taint Resistance, well you're right on one level (they can get some substantial Taint from Node, Quantum, & tainted traits), OTOH, the Merit makes quite rare to accumulate any substantial amount of Chrysalis-useful temp Taint.

Ah-ha, you're talking about the Taint Resitant Merit (APG p.76), rather than the Taint Resistance enhancement for Mega-Intelligence... I blame WW for being unimaginative in their naming of stuff... ::wink

Correct, to a degree, as it concerns the different social focuses (leadership vs. intimidation) of the two Archetypes. but I would reject the tiresome cliche that a Monster Terat would necessarily go the Mega-Ugly, hideousness way...

Good job I used the word 'may' in my example then, isn't it... ::rolleyes

As for the question of the status of a Nova with the Taint Resistant merit being in the Teragen I honestly think it's a self-solving non-issue: characters in the game don't know what merits the character has, so there's nothing for them to resent or dislike. The overall effect will be that, yes, the character takes longer to gain taint & chrysalis, but then all Terats gain that on an individual basis at different speeds anyway - Teras is, after all, a strongly personal path. I don't see that a character who gains chrysalis slowly will be at any particuar disadvantage - the only social result will be that they take longer to get to that 'second stage' & the social advantages amongst fellow Terats which goes with it. Essentially the merit is a passive, game-world-invisible, effect & should be treated as such.

On the other hand, a character who actively seeks to avoid taint isn't acting very Terat at all: fellow Terats would notice that, plus the ST is perfectly within his or her rights to point out that, since the character isn't acting in line with their archetype (by avoiding taint) they can't convert taint to chrysalis when & if they do suffer from it.

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Ah-ha, you're talking about the Taint Resitant Merit (APG p.76), rather than the Taint Resistance enhancement for Mega-Intelligence...

Gosh, you're so right! I meant the Merit, not the enhancement. So very sorry for having been unwittingly misleading. ::blush

I blame WW for being unimaginative in their naming of stuff... ::wink

Sadly, so very true. ::rolleyes

Good job I used the word 'may' in my example then, isn't it... ::rolleyes

yep, I overreacted a bit, haven't I ? ::tongue But one of the sad realities I hate the most in RP, esp. superhuman games, is the expectation that your character and its powers or abilities should necessarily fall within a rigid clichè. Clans, Orders, splats, "themes", special effects, I hate them all. I like to play hybrids, jack of all trades, rebels, etc. EG I downright hate the clichè that any superhuman's powers should necessarily root in a tight thematic "special effect". Just a decent bit of coherence, such as not having each and every power under the sun, is enough.

characters in the game don't know what merits the character has,

unless the character happens to have stuff like Body Awareness and/or Quantum Attunement, that is ::laugh

so there's nothing for them to resent or dislike. The overall effect will be that, yes, the character takes longer to gain taint & chrysalis, but then all Terats gain that on an individual basis at different speeds anyway - Teras is, after all, a strongly personal path. I don't see that a character who gains chrysalis slowly will be at any particuar disadvantage - the only social result will be that they take longer to get to that 'second stage' & the social advantages amongst fellow Terats which goes with it. Essentially the merit is a passive, game-world-invisible, effect & should be treated as such.

So, such a character would have to compensate a lesser social appeal from lack of elevation by redoubling his/her efforts to do "good deeds" for the movement: in game terms, buying or developing Backing in-play instead of a byproduct of Chrysalis. This would also the route to go for a True 2nd Gen Terat to deal with his "bad vibe" social difficulties with other teragen, I suppose.

On the other hand, a character who actively seeks to avoid taint isn't acting very Terat at all: fellow Terats would notice that, plus the ST is perfectly within his or her rights to point out that, since the character isn't acting in line with their archetype (by avoiding taint) they can't convert taint to chrysalis when & if they do suffer from it.

I sense a fine but important difference between the IMO real un-Teras thing, neglecting to cultivate a transhuman perspective and one's Archetype, and trying to convert as much taint as one can, when and if one gets it in the normal highs and lows of novadom, and purposefully *trying* to go out of one's way to reap taint as a way to hasten one's evolution to blatant inhumanity and Chrysalis. IMO only the Harvesters do advocate the latter, but it's only really an excuse to tempt other novas into giving their monstrous, self-pitying Taint misery some company. Mal does counsel the Harvesters and the Apostle faction against seeking to be a monster for the sake of it (and Scripture forcefully labels it as a "dangerous heresy"). I also think that trying to avoid "useless" taint (ie the one you cannot convert) is good with Teras, as one should drive one's evolution, not be driven by it. For the same reason, I think it is good with Teras (if not with Leviathan) to use Aberration Transfer, if one does develop it, to shed those non-Chrysalis unwanted aberrations that one finds not conforming to one's vision of personal evolution. Therefore, it is fine to cultivate a novacentric, transhuman perspective and one's Archetype, but also be confortable with the expectation that your Chrysalis may accumulate veeerryy slowly and shun taint unless you expect to be able to convert/control it.

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Forsaking humanity & following Teras are one & the same

True. And THAT is where the good Count has problems. Chrysalis is a very distant side note, and is quite scary, and not all Terats are trying to get Chrysalis.

What does the Count do? Have sex with lots of great looking baseline women, hobnob with the rich and famous baselines, manipulate the baseline media, spend lots of baseline money, play games with the baseline legal & political systems, etc.

Notice a trend in there? Where exactly is the Count "forsaking humanity"? Sure, he's doing lots of good things for the movement... but he isn't exactly a member. If he were picking up Chrysalis then that would obviously trump all other concerns, but he isn't.

The party circut of so called Terats have many of the same issues. If they get serious, then they'll join a real faction. If they aren't, then they'll keep making porn, having sex, snorting drugs, and otherwise indulging themselves as suped up baselines.

The issue isn't Taint or having low taint. The issue is forsaking humanity.

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Yet Orzaiz is one of the very few that Mal thinks is getting the point of the whole Teras thing, one who Mal approves of and supports. Orzaiz interacts with baselines a lot, but for the good of the Teragen and not baselines. And Mal doesn't think less of him for not going thru Chrysalis, because his attitude and goals are all about novadom. Not a simple dynamic, here. Forsaking humanity doesn't mean you can't interact with them. When aliens drop in, they don't have to become human just to deal with us!

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I also think that trying to avoid "useless" taint (ie the one you cannot convert) is good with Teras, as one should drive one's evolution, not be driven by it.

Yup, I completely agree... on the other hand there are so few ways to gain temporary taint that a character following an archetype should be able to convert temporary taint most of the time - power strain & rapid recovery both follow the Teras-directive of pushing the limits of one's powers: & that's the bit which fellow Terats will notice or not - i.e. is this guy really trying to go beyond his normal limits, or is he just cruising? Gaining permanent Taint, on the other hand, (i.e. by buying stuff for a reduced x.p. cost) seems to be the sort of thing wannabe Terats do (rapid power gain & damn the consequences), whilst true followers of Teras avoid it like the plague.

Notice a trend in there? Where exactly is the Count "forsaking humanity"? Sure, he's doing lots of good things for the movement... but he isn't exactly a member. If he were picking up Chrysalis then that would obviously trump all other concerns, but he isn't.

I'd say yes & no to this one: yes the Count is doing all those rich 'n' famous 'brat pack' things, acting very much as baseline humanity tends to be seen to when they gain power; on the other hand Teras is a philosophy - motivations are as important (if not more so) than actions. Count Orzaiz openly considers baselines lesser creatures (he coined the unfortunate phrase 'monkeys' in that interview after all), he's a bit like a research scientist who studies apes up close, or a human who happens to enjoy swimming with dolphins - he enjoys his Novahood & indulges himself, rather than doing all those things just to fit in with humanity. He also runs with the pack when photographing big cats in the wild, but he's never accused of 'trying to be a lion'.

Having said that, one of the keys to the whole Teras / Chrysalis thing is cutting off vestigages of the character's human past - that Orzaiz hasn't done: he still indulges in the old family fortune, keeps his human name & title, & basically keeps using all those elements of his baseline life which are so helpful to him - if he was to truly go the Teras route he'd sweep all that away & start anew as a Nova persona. Of course it could be said that he's sacrificing his personal evolution for the sake of the Teragen movement as a whole - but even if true, that too is a very baseline way of thinking: Teras advocates a personal path to personal evolution.

The other thing to consider with Orzaiz is that his Nova powers are very much centred around Mega-Socials: he can't actually follow an archetype if he doesn't use & push these powers (as well as his athletic traits), because they are part of his Nova self, & Teras says you can't just ignore that - so he has to indulge in social situations in order to be considered a follower of Teras at all. Right now it just so happens that baseline society is the only real arena where Orzaiz can indulge & flex these powers, so that's what he does. The telling point would be the guy's reaction if Novas actually manage to get organised into some sort of seperate society - would he remain with his baseline creature comforts or go join his One Race peers? My guess would be the latter, but by the time this properly happens (in the Trinity era), I'd also guess that someone will have killed the guy (he is, after all, a really big target)...

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Count Orzaiz openly considers baselines lesser creatures (he coined the unfortunate phrase 'monkeys' in that interview after all), he's a bit like a research scientist who studies apes up close, or a human who happens to enjoy swimming with dolphins - he enjoys his Novahood & indulges himself, rather than doing all those things just to fit in with humanity. He also runs with the pack when photographing big cats in the wild, but he's never accused of 'trying to be a lion'.
And yet he (at least was) still sleeping with them. If Project Pro didn't sterilize him he'd probably have kids by his baseline sex partners.
The other thing to consider with Orzaiz is that his Nova powers are very much centred around Mega-Socials: he can't actually follow an archetype if he doesn't use & push these powers (as well as his athletic traits), because they are part of his Nova self, & Teras says you can't just ignore that - so he has to indulge in social situations in order to be considered a follower of Teras at all. Right now it just so happens that baseline society is the only real arena where Orzaiz can indulge & flex these powers, so that's what he does.
Now that is an interesting point.

Another is how does someone without any powers "push" their powers? A number of character concepts only have stats, or even just mega-stats, or even just unpushable powers like luck.

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Using a generous interp of what Orzaiz is up to, the parallel is with the Buddhist monk who achieves Enlightenment. . . and then goes back into the world to live, because once you have understood Enlightenment, you can practice it through any activity.

Orzaiz, likewise, understands and accepts the beyond-humanity nature of novakind, to the point of not requiring flamboyent assertions of separation and superiority anymore.

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Also, he is using his abilities in a nova setting. He didn't become a force in the Pantheon by collecting stamps. He's a major player in nova and baseline society, using his mega-social abilities for the good of novadom. Sounds Terat to me. ::biggrin O' course, he'll run into the same problem during NOLK that all talkers do: Boot-to-the-head usually trumps diplomacy during in-your-face conflicts. His personal path works well for him, but he is still vulnerable to the hotheads who aren't interested in talking or building a nova society. This may be why Mal supports him. Count O is too early, he'd thrive in a more developed nova society that's stable and less prone to chaotic violence. As for Teragen elites, if you're in an all-nova society, you're more like police/military, less like freewheeling mercs. This transition period is sort of like the American Wild West, turbulent, messy, with people making it up as they go.

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Yup, I completely agree... on the other hand there are so few ways to gain temporary taint that a character following an archetype should be able to convert temporary taint most of the time - power strain & rapid recovery both follow the Teras-directive of pushing the limits of one's powers: & that's the bit which fellow Terats will notice or not - i.e. is this guy really trying to go beyond his normal limits, or is he just cruising? Gaining permanent Taint, on the other hand, (i.e. by buying stuff for a reduced x.p. cost) seems to be the sort of thing wannabe Terats do (rapid power gain & damn the consequences), whilst true followers of Teras avoid it like the plague.

Yes, this makes sense, however by the same reasoning, a good Terat should only try to power strain & rapid recovery when one is reasonably sure that the possible taint can be channeled: i.e. when they are acting in accordance with their archetype. Barring emergencies, of course, but then it is still the good Teras thing to do, to discard "garbage" out-of-archetype temporary Taint as best as they can, not to accumulate it.

It is worthy to notice that Teras 2nd Gen novas, who can be seen as living embodiments of Teras (actually they are an imprinting "artificial" variant of True 2nd Gen), are immune to permanent Taint from Node, Quantum, or tainted nova Traits.

It is interesting to note that because of the "artificial", imprinted & indoctrinated nature of Teras 2nd Gen, some doubt is cast on how much of Teras (esp. the Chrysalis) is really natural to novas, and how much it is a stopgap machanism to deal with the stresses of taint on 1st gen novas. OTOH, seeing how many of the basic features of True 2nd Gen (the closest thing there is to a "natural" nova) are akin to Teragen principles and practices, it casts much of Teras essentially in the right as it concerns its view of nova nature. OTOOH, it is also true that a True 2nd Gen that belives in Teras *can* follow an Archetype and eventually develop one or more Chrysalis: it will just took him or her a very, very long time.

And yet he (at least was) still sleeping with them. If Project Pro didn't sterilize him he'd probably have kids by his baseline sex partners.

yes, but by doing so, he would significantly increase the likelihood that other members of the One Race are brought in the world, which is a very Teragen thing to do. Maximizing the reproductive success of your race generally is a very good thing. Sleeping around is patriotic ::biggrin

Until a mechanism is found to restore the fertility of all novas in a generalized way, the duty of fertile teragen is to try to have as many nova children, esp. 2nd Gens, as possible. Therefore trying to impregnate good baseline mates, esp. latents & High-Quantum baselines, is a good choice.

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And yet he (at least was) still sleeping with them. If Project Pro didn't sterilize him he'd probably have kids by his baseline sex partners.

Well, even if a Guy like Orzaiz happened to think that sleeping with baseline women was essentially beastiality, an aversion to beastiality is a baseline human moral reaction - being a Nova he can (in his own mind) set his own moral standards. My guess is he just so happens to enjoy sex... ::wink

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So he has different ethics to think of baselines as animals, he doesn't treat them as animals, then he has different ethics to sleep with them, and on top of that he wasn't using his mega-socials to sleep with female novas.

It's much easier to simply wonder if he doesn't really think of them as animals.

It also explains why his relationship with Charlot helped his standing a great deal.

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Apologies for breaking into this discussion so late, but I've got a notion about Mal's approval of Ozraiz that's been bugging me ever since I got a hold of Aberrant: Teragen. Perhaps Orzaiz is planning to get the most out of his Chrysalis by taking a slower, more long-term approach than 95% of the other Terats? Judging from the example of Bridgett Caulder (AB:Teragen pp. 120-124), most Terats rush through their Chrysalises (Chrysalii ? What little Latin I know is horribly vile. ::laugh ::tongue ) in a matter of a few years. From Mal's perspective, those Terats are getting much less out of the Chrysalis than Mal did thanks to their rushing though it.

Orzaiz appears to be operating on a scale of 20-year intervals instead, which is likely what Mal himself did in the early 20th Century. Looking at him from a game mechanics viewpoint, Orzaiz must have racked up quite a few experience points over the years since his joining the Teragen. If my suspicions are correct, Orzaiz might be planning to enter his first Chrysalis circa 2023, most likely using the Marvel Archetype.

This is all speculation of course, but it makes sense to me.

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So he has different ethics to think of baselines as animals, he doesn't treat them as animals, then he has different ethics to sleep with them, and on top of that he wasn't using his mega-socials to sleep with female novas.

It's much easier to simply wonder if he doesn't really think of them as animals.

It also explains why his relationship with Charlot helped his standing a great deal.

Well, of course. . . because they aren't animals. They are humans.

The relationship between novas and humans is analogized to that of humans and animals; unfortunately, some Teragen take that too literally, and think it means they have to act towards humans as if they were animals.

::wink

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Orzaiz appears to be operating on a scale of 20-year intervals instead, which is likely what Mal himself did in the early 20th Century. Looking at him from a game mechanics viewpoint, Orzaiz must have racked up quite a few experience points over the years since his joining the Teragen. If my suspicions are correct, Orzaiz might be planning to enter his first Chrysalis circa 2023, most likely using the Marvel Archetype.
Now that *is* an interesting idea.

Of course there are lots of implications from that.

1) He'd be in a coma for a long time, maybe even long enough to miss the war.

2) He'd know this so he'd take steps to hide. Have someone drop him under the ocean, or on a different planet, or something.

3) Points 1 & 2 might mean he misses Mal's taking of everyone somewhere else.

On a side note I'm not convinced that it's point efficient to spend experience in Chrysalis. Yes, you buy stuff cheap. The problem is that the more you save the longer you're under, and while you're under you can't earn experience. IMHO the real advantage of Chrysalis is you can buy things you normally can't.

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So he has different ethics to think of baselines as animals, he doesn't treat them as animals, then he has different ethics to sleep with them, and on top of that he wasn't using his mega-socials to sleep with female novas.

It's much easier to simply wonder if he doesn't really think of them as animals.

It also explains why his relationship with Charlot helped his standing a great deal.

I'm pretty sure Orzaiz doesn't think of humans as animals, except in a purely biological sense, because he's not, after all, either a complete idiot or insane (which isn't something all Terats can claim...). I tend to imagine that he thinks of humans as 'lesser beings' - the whole 'beastiality' thing was meant tongue-in-cheek, because whenever the whole 'Orzaiz calls humans monkeys' bit comes up, someone always counters with 'but he sleeps with baseline women'...

When you get down to it people sleep with other people they consider 'lesser beings' all the time: the arrogant rich businessman or politician who beds the beautiful airheaded bimbo probably doesn't imagine the woman in question is his 'equal', thinks little (if anything) of her opinions (or feelings), but still happily uses her to indulge in his own pleasure. Sure, it's pretty scuzzy conduct, but no-one questions why that sort of thing goes on. Orzaiz sleeps with beautiful baseline women because, let's face it, it's fun. I'm not sure why doing so should be a black mark against him or his devotion to Teras: hanging on to the baseline girlfriend he had before he erupted would be against Teras - 'cos it smacks of clinging to his old baseline humanity; but using his Novahood to have fun is the sort of thing Teras encourages. Naturally some of the more 'purist' (read: racist) factions within the Teragen would disagree - but that doesn't mean the act itself is anti-Teras. It's Orzaiz's standing with these racist / purist Teragen factions which improves when he settles down with Ms Holden, rather than his overall standing within the Teragen - pretty much everyone else likes the guy anyway.

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On a side note I'm not convinced that it's point efficient to spend experience in Chrysalis. Yes, you buy stuff cheap. The problem is that the more you save the longer you're under, and while you're under you can't earn experience. IMHO the real advantage of Chrysalis is you can buy things you normally can't.

::shrug Perhaps Orzaiz isn't investing all of his experience points in his "Chrysalis fund" (for lack of a better term)? He could be planning on just buying another couple dots of Quantum & getting rid of the resulting Taint with his first Chrysalis. He's got zilch AFA permanent Taint according to his writeup on p. 57 of the Aberrant Storytellers Screen, so his first big cocoon-nap may not take more than a few years.

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Could work either way. Since he's got mostly mega-stats (and premonition), his Quantum 4 is sufficient to max his mega-stats to 5 and buy all the enhancements he could want. His attributes are maxed at 5, and he has lots of room to expand his abilities. When the time comes for a cocoon-nap (nice phrase ::laugh ), he's sitting pretty and can take his time. If he ever buys pretercognition, he'll even know the best time.

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Interesting discussion, full of good points so far. To branch it out a bit further, I have given some thought to the feasibility of 2nd Gen nova characters in Teragen (or other factions amenable to their membership, such as Aberrants and DeVries elites), using ABA rules.

I assume that most players (such as myself) would prefer to play them somewhere in the final part of the pre-Apotheosis stage, but would find the perspective of preschooler children characters unpalatable, so in most cases 2nd Gen novas should be teen adolescents or at the very least older pre-teen characters. Assuming a chronicle set in 2015, this would require the character to have been born from 2001 to 2005. Now, while it may be barely feasible for some True character to have been born iduring that period from subtle novas that went the family route very early after eruption, it would most likely involve nova-High Quantum baseline pairings, as it is unlikely for Sophia Rousseau's entropy-control "matchmaker" scheme to have been in effect so much early. As for Terat, it is again most unlikely that the Nursery system would have been set up so soon in the movement's history, and for Trogs, I deem the most likely cause of their existence would be some "hatcher" Species-like Fertility 2 extreme r-type breeder nova, such as Insecta, in action, and it takes some time to rack that kind of taint.

Therefore, IMO most such viable characters would require to have at least one level of Accelerated Maturation enhancement, which would cut the pre-adolescence maturation time down to 3-4 years, setting their birth in 2011-2012, which would make characters of all clades plausible. For a nice-nasty twist, I suggest combining one level of Accelerated Maturation with one level of Retarded Aging (or alternatively, with the 1-point Weakness "only works until puberty"), to cut down that bothersome "kiddie" maturation time but giving ample time to RP the teen pre-Apotheosis stage. I would also suggest to use the suggested True cap for M-As, nova powers and Abilities to 3 for all clades, but would allow a total amount (including the 2nd gen bonus) of nova points at creation of 50-75, 50 at the very, very least, 70-75 in most cases if one wishes to properly highlight the potential of these child gods, and to use the fast-track development experience chart for all purchases of quantum traits, even pre-Apotheosis. At an indeterminate point in the future, when the character eventually reaches Apotheosis, a further bonus of 50 to 100 nova points seems appropriate, either immediately at the moment of Apotheosis or distributed among the end of the next few stories.

Moreover, any such character should have a "Wanted" 4-5 Adversarial Background or an Enemy 4-6 Flaw, to represent the implacable persecution any such character would get from Proteus (alternatively, in the unlikely case that the nova has managed to hide his existence so far, it might be substituted by a "Skeleton in the Closet" 4-6 Adversarial Background or a Secret 3/5 Flaw). Uneducated might be appropriate for some Trogs that raised themselves on the street, and Devotion (Teras) would be often appropriate for many Terats, as it would be Intolerance (Utopia/Aeon). The latter, or maybe Vengeful, might also be appropriate for True and Trogs that have been hunted by Proteus since birth. Some amount of cosmetic "special effect" false aberration Flaws (such as Anima Banner, Bulging Muscles, Colored Skin, Glow, Unearthly Beauty, or Disturbing Voice) might be appropriate to highlight their exotic nature in a non-creepy way. Likewise, some impulse-control mental Flaws such as Lusty, Overconfident, Bad Temper, might be appropriate for teen characters. For a nice twist to the stereotype, it might be best to build up a Trog character with Aberrations that doesn't immediately mark it as a hideous tentacled monster: by careful choice of aberrations, the character might result creepy, exotic, or strange instead of horrific even at high Taint.

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most such viable characters would require to have at least one level of Accelerated Maturation enhancement...

Or you could make an NPC with Temporal Manip and have him/her alter their ages. Combine that with everyone taking either a level of Mega-Int or Mega-Wits.

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most such viable characters would require to have at least one level of Accelerated Maturation enhancement...

Or you could make an NPC with Temporal Manip and have him/her alter their ages. Combine that with everyone taking either a level of Mega-Int or Mega-Wits.

Yet another option, instead of the Accelerated Maturation/Retarded Aging combo, would be to cause accelerated growth to shut down at puberty, instead of adulthood and Apotheosis, by buying Accelerated Maturation with the 1-point Weakness "only works until puberty". It would involve the slight houseruling of applying a weakness to an enhancement, but I think it's quite viable.

Yes, one level of Mega-Int and Mega-Wits seems rather appropriate for most 2nd Gens. As a matter of fact, given that quantum traits are as natural as breathing to them, the mid-to-high amount of nova points, and the pre-apotheosis 2/3-level cap, I would expect most 2nd Gen to be rather more "broad" and flexible than "deep" in their quantum abilities, with less of a thematic niche or specialization, and a few dots in most Mega-Attrs and many enhancements and nova powers. It's also a survival adaptation if you grow into your powers instead of blossming them in one fell sweep.

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Quick note on using Age Alteration on 2ndGen novas: All that will do is accelerate their physical maturity, not their intellectual or emotional maturity. Trying to turn a 2-year-old into a 20-year-old in this manner will only result in a 2-year-old mind in the body of a 20-year-old. Recipe for disaster, AFAICT. ::wacko

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Quick note on using Age Alteration on 2ndGen novas: All that will do is accelerate their physical maturity, not their intellectual or emotional maturity. Trying to turn a 2-year-old into a 20-year-old in this manner will only result in a 2-year-old mind in the body of a 20-year-old. Recipe for disaster, AFAICT. ::wacko

Whereas Accelerated Maturation explicitly accelerates intellectual maturation, and, I presume, emotional maturation, too, at least to a degree:

The nova’s development in all areas will be extremely rapid, and he will be able to learn things with speeds normally seen only in Mega-Intelligent novas.
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Accelerated Maturation does cover all three bases (physical, intellectual & emotional), yes - with one level, twenty years' worth of growth is compressed into five years. It's a much more limited effect than Age Acceleration. It's also balanced since it's an effect of the 2ndGen's own Mega-Stamina, instead of some quantum effect imposed on said tyke by someone else.

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Accelerated Maturation does cover all three bases (physical, intellectual & emotional), yes - with one level, twenty years' worth of growth is compressed into five years. It's a much more limited effect than Age Acceleration. It's also balanced since it's an effect of the 2ndGen's own Mega-Stamina, instead of some quantum effect imposed on said tyke by someone else.

Speaking of 2nd Generation Novas...

Child Nova (3 pt. Flaw)

You were a small child at the time of your eruption, or perhaps you were born of a union of two novas. Whatever the case, the nova child is somewhere between 7-11 years of age (or younger if desired) and looks and acts like it. This must be roleplayed!

You have the Short flaw and you find it difficult to be taken seriously by others (with equivalent dice pool penalties). Because of your youth and size, a maximum of 6 points may be spent on Physical attributes at character creation, with a cap of 2 in Strength and 3 in Stamina. The characters Health Levels are as an extra [Hurt –1, Maimed –3, Incapacitated and Dead].

To offset the drawbacks, the child nova does not have an MR node as per a regular Nova, but instead uses his whole body as a conduit for quantum energies. This results in immunity to the taint effects of a high Node rating.

Pretty neat huh?

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Re: Child Nova flaw-

More than a day late & a dollar short there, Cap. That angle's already been covered in Aberrant: A Breed Apart. Nice try, though.

Took a bit to find it you-know. I had to track it down via N-Prime. I look forward to reading it.

Thanks,

-Aaron

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