Aberrant: Prometheans Unbound - Shapeshift

[Alex Green]

If we are talking about strictly only being a biological being who can turn into other biological beings then that is one kind of shapeshift. but the source materials (comic universes) have shapeshifting far more impresive than merely taking strict biological shapes. Morph is another classic example of a true molecular shifter.

Morph can also fly without shapeshifting. Morph’s big power is his control over his own molecules, but if we were to convert that into Abby terms, his ability to fly and his ability to shapeshift would be different powers. Similarly, Bob’s ability to Heal, Shapeshift, and absorb people are all different powers, even though they all have exactly the same definition.

You are relentless in arguing. I have been around long enough to see that you will not relent in arguing a point you are set on, to the umpteenth degree of minutia. Sometimes it seems like you are unwilling to concede that other viewpoints (especially in the context of a fictional game with subjective rules in the first place) may be as "correct" or applicable as yours are.

You haven’t seen me totally fall on my face. I can think of it happening twice in the last six months were I was totally, completely wrong (want links?). I think Prof Pots holds the record for the number of times I’ve been shown up.

Im sorry I had to make it personal. Like I said, I enjoy gaming with you, but some of these arguments that spring up every so often (between you and Nully, or you and I, or whomever) can end up seeming like, almost some kind of alpha-dog contest.

It isn’t alpha dog on my end. I have a very mechanical mindset and grew up in a family of engineers. You take out a ruler and measure the object in question, and that’s that.

I don't mean any offense by this Alex, but this is one of the sillier answers I've seen you give. A single dot of DI doubles you mass and grants an extra dot of Str and soak. For many that's less than 180 lbs. How is that "denser than stone"?

No offense taken, but silly or not, let's take out our ruler. APG page 111 gives the formula as Dots+1 autos succ. So one dot of DI increases your mass by 4x it and gives +2 Strength (+1 for every 2x).

Weight Chart of materials: http://www.tesarta.com/www/resources/library/weights.html

Flesh, Human has a specific Gravity of 0.99 and is 61-67 pounds per cubic foot. 4 Times that is 244-268.

The first chart is a listing of metals, and most of them are more than 250. The second chart down is a listing of stones, and 250-ish is higher than most of them. For example Limonite (iron ore) has a pounds per cubic foot value of 225-250. Stone (common, generic) is 157. Wet Sand is 120.

Huge size would work pretty well because Gorillas are Huge, not dense. And yes, they aren’t tall… but if we have to fudge a point I think the point to fudge is the tallness factor and not the flesh more dense than stone factor.

[metaphysician]

Despite a desire to not touch this anymore with a ten foot pole. . .

Yeah, 1 dot of Flight from Shapeshift lets you go about 250+ km/hour. To which I can only say: so? Gorillas can't lift 10-25 tons either.

As for the issue of "its unbalanced if its really altering your quantum field", thats a non sequitur. Its unbalanced if it can do anything ( and indeed, "Shapeshift" that let you purchase any power would be Level 4 ), but just because its fundamental mechanism is "altering quantum fields" doesn't mean it can do anything. After all, technically *all* quantum powers result from manipulating quantum fields. Lots of people know this, even. Does this knowledge in itself allow them to do anything they want? Unless their name is 'Divis Mal', nope.

And as one last thing, Hypermovement is kind of required, unless taking a very fast *running* form is illegal.

[Centimane]

Wow. I had a whole response written out, and then accidently lost it all.... ::glare

So I'll just cut to the chase. BT; I'm in agreement with pretty much everything you said in your last two posts. You're highly unlikely to hear any arguments from me concerning judgements over what is and isn't achievable with SS if you keep thinking like you did while writing those posts (barring that whole Invisibility thing of course, but I'll leave that alone).

Regarding Liquids and Gases: I think that gases should be banned because a gas is a collection of dissasociated molecules (i.e. they aren't physically connected in any way, even if they are likely to reform together when cooled past a certain point). I don't think a nova with SS should be able to completely separate parts of themselves and still retain control of them, otherwise when you hack off a shifter's arm it wouldn't actually represent damage so much as a mild inconvenience. Also, it would allow a shape shifter to simulate Homonculus and Clone (stupid unbalanced!). So no gases in my opinion.

For liquids I would say that they should be allowed, but only after close scrutiny by the ST. If a player is basically trying to duplicate the effects of a Bodymorph: Liquid, then they should probably be told "hell no!" with the suggestion that perhaps they should purchase Bodymorph with xp if they want it so badly. On the other hand, if a shifter just wants to simulate the water in a pitcher, or go draining through a hole in the ground, then sure. Why not? Although in the example of the hole in the ground, they're basically simulating 2 dots of DD and the liquid thing would just be special effects anyway.

Regarding Alex and the Gorilla: I see where the problem is now Alex, and I'm going to have to take the blame for it. In my head I was thinking that the nova would only use one level of success when increasing mass, not the automatic 2 levels for simulating a dot of DI. A single level would only double a person's mass, putting the average person at 300-400 pounds, and making them a little bit stronger and tougher, and leaving them at 5 to 6 feet in height. Which is, you'll have to agree, perfect for a gorilla. I'm sorry I didn't make it more clear as to what I was thinking, and I'm sorry I called your huge size suggestion silly (although not the Growth suggestion...what were you thinking anyway? ::wink ).

[BlueNinja]

Now put the seagull in space. Now matter how fast it flaps its wings...it isn't going anywhere.

This makes sense. And it's sort of what I assumed happened anyway. But then, I never got to play my shapeshifter in outer space.

Density Decrease, liquids, and gases

The problem here is the extent of SS's capabilities. Can Shapeshift let you turn into water or any other liquid? Because if it can...then why not a gas? If Shapeshift can let you turn into water or air, then it would essentially let you mimic Bodymorph, and I don't feel comfortable with that.

For simplicity's sake, because turning into a liquid or gas would be the domain of Matter Chameleon, not Shapeshift. Technically, I suppose that a nova could turn themselves into a giant amoeba, but it still has a (somewhat) solid exterior, and structures inside the cell.

Poison

I would allow Poison, on the restriction that it be for the Bashing/Lethal damage or dice pool penalty part. There's no way I'd allow for nova to SS into a snake that gives people AIDS or malaria by biting them (Unless they actually possessed the Poison power itself).

This makes sense to me as well. Or, alternately, since Poison requires a roll, limit the maximum successes for the Poison based upon however many successes they allocate out of their Shapeshifting towards it. (ie, if the shifter puts 2 successes to mimicking Poison, then they can inflict 2 Bashing, 1 Lethal, -1 die penalty, or whatever disease is at the 2 mark.) That would automatically cap it at 5 successes (for a nova with Shapeshifting 5).

Partially copying powers

Or an ocean-floor dwelling brick, if that's the case.

::laugh

Shockwave, and requirements for certain powers/enhancements

My issue was that, theoritically, someone could use SS and make no changes to themself at all, and just use one success to gain Shockwave. They're normal size, normal weight, and have normal sized feet/hands/body, normally incapable of such a feat. This is why I'm quick to say no to this one.

Let me put my argument this way.

If they already have Mega-Strength, and the Shapeshift to gain Shockwave, then they are powering it with their Mega-Strength.

If they assign successes to DI or Growth, which gives them M-Str, and get Shockwave, they are powering it with their shifting.

If they pick up Shockwave, and have no Mega-Strength, then please let them waste a success, and laugh at them when they try to use it, because it will do no damage. ::happy

Some enhancements (thinking specifically about Crush, and Hardbody) that require you to burn quantum, are the ones I would look long and hard about allowing to be Shapeshifted. Otherwise, I'd let the player pick them up until it proves to be game-unbalancing.

Invisibility

Still not biting, sorry.

What about the Chromatapores?

[BlueNinja]

and indeed, "Shapeshift" that let you purchase any power would be Level 4

Yes, it's called Quantum Intensification. ::tongue

[Blue Thunder]

Oh, Chromatophores are fine n' dandy. They're specifically pointed out in the power's text (It's a Body Mod). It's the same thing an octopus and several other creatures do with relative ease. An octopus expands and contracts basic pigment cells based on what colors the skin is detecting via touch.