opnet [OpNet] Interesting and Unusual activities lately?

[Sakurako Hino]

Okay, sorry for the ambigious title there.

But I have a question, you guys tend to hop the OpNet alot, so you guys may occasionally see... Things... that are abnormal. It just don't have to be weird icons that are run into, but weird events period. I ask this because of my recent tangle with an AI which had activated itself on my late lamented mainframe. I'm sort of worried that the AI may have left a copy of itself somewhere. I wouldnt worry since you'd need roughly 5 terabytes of storage capacity on one computer in order for it to operate, but even I don't know how it "breathes".

Hate to start a ghost story here, but I'm just a little scared.

[Teknokat]

I did a quick scan of TK1 and Stormhold, I'm not seeing any particularly unusual activity. I'll scan through the rest of my network, but since anything going through the Opnet would have to go through Stormhold, I doubt anything's hiding here.

Although, 5 Terabytes isn't that much space these days. TK1 has a storage capacity in excess of 80 Exabytes, so 5 Terabytes isn't at all alarming around here. Most Network Mainframes created past mid-2007 would have at least 10 TB of space avaliable (although probably spread over several servers, admittedly).

Fortunately, While I can store that much space, actual transmission of that much data would take some time. If you like I can do a search for recent Opnet lags centred around the Asia region, see if there's any unexplained data lags recently. Although, that's a fairly simple procedure, you could probably do that yourself.

[Sakurako Hino]

I would do the scan, but when I had to self-destruct Yggdrasil, I lost that capability. I could use the Poseidon mainframe on the Hikari Maru, but I'm still getting my energy back from practically being near death. I do have a new mainframe coming to the manor, but it'll take at least 3 weeks to get Neo-Yggdrasil online and functional. After uploading the backups of my files from my backup server on the Hikari Maru. I'll be flying to Minneapolis on Thursday Tokyo time. There are a few people I still need to take care of buisiness wise. But, you can contact me via the usual protocols. Still waiting for the invite to TK Towers. I'd like to see your facilities. If only out of curiousity.

PS: What I meand about my recovery dealing with me not ehading to my yacht is I'm just resting right now. I'm laying in bed, entering this post by voice transcription. But, by wednesday I should be walking and doing dirt as usual.

[Fortune's Son]

Now we know what you're spending your endowment from VB on. Not a criticism by the way, I'm sure Bill intended for you to spend the money on whatever makes you happy. You might try looking for more cost effective ways to do it though.

Tactics. You think you're not but you keep assuming this AI is stupid and/or remains ignorant in regards to you. You should have learned better than to assume thngs like that even in the short time you spent with the band.

If your quarry got away you're not an enemy or someone that disagrees with it. You are an obstacle to be removed in the most effective and efficient manner possible. Now is a really good time to be doing the risk assessment analyis on this boojum, Endeavor. You've earned its emnity, it knows you want to kill it, and after coming as close as you did it's no longer going to treat you as a vaguely cute but ineffectually slow obstacle. Don't you think it's about time you start recognizing some things about the mental state of the mind that created this crap?

You've been played for years by a mind that you're not on par with, Kiddo. I feel for your pain in recovery but you must realize it wasn't the AI that ultimately did this to you.

There are good and valid reasons to resort to scorched Earth tactics. You've been played and will continue to be played until you can break out of the trap.

[Hugin]

Sakurako, you bandy about the existence of an AI with seemingly little concern about what that could mean. Do you not remember Preston's thread of just a short time ago? The one where he did in fact reveal probably privliged information about homicides that he suggested might be connected to the mere research of AI? For such a hidebound, procedure slave such as Preston to reveal this information does suggest the enormity of his concerns.

However, I for one do thank you for the warning and will take all due diligence in the necessary security measures, so I do offer some small thanks.

[ronin]

It needs to be destroyed. The very existence of this entity has the potential to usher in a whole new dark age for nova and baseline alike.

If you can find it, I know someone who can deal with it. I hope.

.ronin

[Sandy Davis]

And like man,so to has novas fallen aupon the frist sin,Pride,and that is all I will say about that.

Now Prodigy,I thought it was more what kind of A.I. they were making.Not just that they were making an A.I.

[Fortune's Son]

Pride is the first sin? I would have guessed lust myself but then I'm a "with gusto" kind of guy.

That's my story anyway and I'm sticking to it.

[Sakurako Hino]

*glares*

Like hell I'm going to be played by the mere shadow of my mother. This AI dosen't realize, if it still processes, that I'm preparing an offensive. I hope it reads this message and thinks for a few nanos about what it has gotten into. I will OWN it. There will be nothing left of it. I will make it EXTINCT!

The fading pain that I still feel will be returned to it in KIND. Let the hunt begin.

[Teknokat]

Endeavor...

Calm down. If your AI still exists, it's not likely to be fettered by such things as emotional responses.

The hunt has begun, but remember to check which side of the hunt you're on. Either way, you need to find him first. I've been monitoring a few Major nodes, but if this AI is on the loose likely to be very smart. I can think of many ways that he could avoid creating data lags.

On the plus side, if you do find him, We've just finished construction of our Malevolent Data Containment Server, Fishtank. It's due to come online in a day or so. And you're office is almost ready, we just need you to come and take it over

[Sakurako Hino]

Sorry for the temper meltdown, but this was MY fault that it got out, and it'll be me to rectify this situation. Of course with help. A hunt should be done with friends, right? The more guns, the better the success rate, and the more vennison we get. This is in the family. That's why it's personal, but I have learned not to go it alone.

Oh, TK, don't forget to have the firewalls on that thing. I don't want no fool hacker accidentially freeing any digital "spirits".

[Sakurako Hino]

TK: One more note, be sure to have a cooler full of the best caffinated drinks out there. It goes through my system quick, but I like the taste. After I do some digging from Minneapolis, the bird will come home to roost.

[Teknokat]

Endeavor, I'm not that stupid.

I have better than Firewall. Fishtank is an MDCS. It's designed so I can physically disconnect it and shut power to it at a moment's notice. I intended to use it to safely study dangerous data contructs, but I can see it as a useful prison for something like this, at least until I can find a way to neutralise any other versions of it...

Oh, and trust me, you haven't lived until you've tried my "Special Blend". Coffee for the nova Metabolism, damn hear fatal to baselines...

[Sakurako Hino]

*evil grin*

You really want me to be bouncing off the walls? Keep it away from me. Unless I'm dragging my knuckles after an all-week coding session.

And yeah, I probably should have known you'd have things set, but, if you ever read the original Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton(SP?) then you'll realize that sometimes, if desperate, things find a way. Sorry, but my Mom pounded in my brain being too careful. I guess I gotta let it fly.

[ronin]

Endeavor.

I have a strange love-hate relationship with that book. It was the first book that I read as a child that people noticed I had no business reading. The attention was cool, as was the realization sometime around the part where Nedry got killed that people were stunned because said book should have been "beyond" me. What wasn't quite so cool, though, was Crichton's execution. His prose got better, but I found that particular novel lacking in fluid movement. It seemed a little stilted.

I digress. Literature aside, should you at any point during this task find yourself in need of an axe rather than a scalpel, please contact me. My offer of assisstance still stands.

Teknokat.

I've never been into conventional drugs or alcohol, but I must confess that in my baseline days, I did have quite an affection for caffeine. And while I've more or less done away with the need for sleep altogether, I should very much like to try this quantum-powered pick-me-up you've developed.

One question, though; do you think you could adapt it to a tea?

.ronin

[Sakurako Hino]

Ronin: I sort of agree. JP was in a way too "jumpy". As for your offer, I'd like to tell you that you'd be called on at the right time. You were on of the candidates I had in mind incase this irritating little AI decided to make itself a new "nest" in a more physical location. Tea? I actually prefer tea myself. Green Tea is my personal favorite. Followed by Earl Grey. My tastes are quite eclectic.

Teknokat: One thing about the "fishtank". Does it have a self destruct, in case it's necessary?

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Sakurako 'Endeavor' Hino sez:
*glares*
Like hell I'm going to be played by the mere shadow of my mother.

I didn't mean that it was the AI you were being played by. Come on, Endeavor; you're suppose to be smart so use that. Whose mind was it that you could never compete with. Who knows you better than you know yourself.
Who molded you from birth to eruption and, after eruption, jerked you up short whenever your path diverged from specs.

Have you found yourself an enemy in this AI or simply the newest tool to mold you.

[Teknokat]

Ronin: One thing, it's not Quantum-powered. It's a synthetic caffeine derivative. Works on the same basic principles as normal caffeine, but with a much more powerful kick, and a longer buzz-time. To me, it's about the same effect as caffeine was when I was baseline. It's also tasteless, so I can add it to any coffee (or tea) blend.

I mix it with some of my favourite blends and sell it through TKI as the Caffeine++ range. If you like I can sell you a sample of the actual derivative, but I don't usually, since so few people ever follow the damn instructions on how much to mix into your pot. As I said, it's pretty powerful stuff.

Endeavor: No self-destruct. Doesn't need one. The top of the room where it's positioned has an EMP cannon permanently aimed at Fishtank with a one-way trigger (any thing attempts to control it, and it fires). It's also stuck in a Faraday cage to avoid any possible attempted radio transmissions, The disconnect system is explosive based (so it can't in any way refix the connection), the power cable is plugged into a hard-wired electrical transformer to prevent anything sending data that way, It's ground contact points are hopelessly cushioned to prevent anything attempting any vibratory tricks. Also, There's no data cables for at least 5 meters out from the room's walls apart from the primary cable...

...And there's a standard low-tech grenade launcher situated in the room with five high-powered grenades preloaded, in the event of everything else failing. I'm fairly certain I've thought of everything. Please tell me if I've missed anything!

[ronin]

Endeavor.

Thank you for your consideration. Should the time come, I am at your disposal. My personal vested interest in the subject of AI compels me to help in any way I can.

I, too, prefer green tea. Of late, I have had precious little else to drink, on those few occassions I still need to. When I find green tea to be reptetitive, I often vouch for black tea with cherry blossoms. If ones sense are properly attuned, the blossoms add a marvelous tinge to the tea.

Teknokat.

By "quantum-powered", I meant only to insinuate that it's creator/designer was a nova. I'm well aware that the caffeine itself has no "nova" properties.

That said, just tell me where to send how much. And if at all possible, a place to pick it up. For obvious reasons, my current situation makes mail-order impossible.

.ronin

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

ronin:
For obvious reasons, my current situation makes mail-order impossible.

Anonymous mail drops.

If you want I can furnish points of contact for setting them up but be aware that I operate mostly Mid to Far East with only a limited presence in the US or Europe.

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Teknokat:

Endeavor: No self-destruct. Doesn't need one. The top of the room where it's positioned has an EMP cannon permanently aimed at Fishtank with a one-way trigger (any thing attempts to control it, and it fires). It's also stuck in a Faraday cage to avoid any possible attempted radio transmissions, The disconnect system is explosive based (so it can't in any way refix the connection), the power cable is plugged into a hard-wired electrical transformer to prevent anything sending data that way, It's ground contact points are hopelessly cushioned to prevent anything attempting any vibratory tricks. Also, There's no data cables for at least 5 meters out from the room's walls apart from the primary cable...

...And there's a standard low-tech grenade launcher situated in the room with five high-powered grenades preloaded, in the event of everything else failing. I'm fairly certain I've thought of everything. Please tell me if I've missed anything!

*scratches head* And I suppose the power could be cut manually as well. Too easy for words. It's better to keep such emergency measures simple. It looks like if we capture this thing, we have it in check.

Jack: I'm well aware of my mother's controlling shadow. But, I only consider that AI just an evil spirit. All of the negatives. None of the positives. Yes, Mom did do things that were questionable in hindsight. But, there were things you don't know about. The reason why I want this AI's processes ceased is because it's a monster. An animal. And my efforts only facilitated it's escape. If this indeed was a molding effort by my mother, then I'm going in the right direction. But, I doubt this AI was some sort of evil entent by her. Even she wanted to destroy it. And her former colleague paid the ultimate price in vain to stop it. I owe him.

But, as with all hunts, patience rewards.

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Sakurako points out:
But, there were things you don't know about.

Things I don't know about like the fact that she's your mother, you love her and would forgive her anything? That it's not her fault, not really, and that she had good reasons to do whatever she did even if the efforts didn't go well? How could she have known or had any idea of future? It's not like she was one of the smartest people on the planet, ran her own multi-national corporation and had the Utopian S&T cops chasing their tails, right?

Oops.

The gene testing, the subsequent beat down, being turned down by DeVries intially, the mind games, the trip to the Pacific, the mama worm on Titan... I'm sure it's only been a series of highly suspect coincidences. Were you planning on extending your stay at the Da'Nile Hilton? Hey, maybe I'm completely wrong and it only seems like you've been are still being jerked around like a marionette on strings.

Either way it's your call, nova.

Me? I'd dump anything that anything to do with this then take a million of Vile Bill's money and place an order with a private company I know of to buy a couple of neutron bursters, a party mix of EMP / Hellfire grenades and some old fashioned thermite. Then I'd gather up all the trappings of a dead life and have a coming of age party.

I never said or implied your mother didn't care for you in her own way. If that's enough for you then oil the wheel and keep running.

One thing I do know is that you can't surprise an opponent by doing the exact same thing you've always done. Best wishes to you nova. And remember that in life there is no such thing as luck but there is chance. Don't miss one.

[ronin]

Jack.

Not to belittle Teknokat's marvelous creation, but we are talking about something as pedestrian as caffeine, here. I don't see why such pains for anonymity should be taken. I hardly care if Teknokat or any of his retainers or servants see what I look like. I simply don't have a permanent mailing address.

.ronin

[Doutor da Reducao]

I will, as they say, keep an eye open for this creation of yours. The final stages of the ongoing negotiation with the Utopian Project are some what delicate at the moment so little attention can be spared until after. With the assistance you have gathered this espírito na máquina should present only minor difficulty.

Would you desire the specifics of the events be mentioned to Utopia? It is the Science and Technology department that I am conversing with.

[Fortune's Son]

Yeah, it's a bit much but ya gotta look at it in perspective. There's nothing funnier than having Utopia enlist the aid of Interpol in a three month sting operation that ultimately nets them something innocuous.

When I heard T2M auxiliary (America) was getting sued for busting up the house of the Italian grandmother that makes mail order cheese cakes I laughed so hard that I nearly choked on my own tongue.

Jilly was pissed though. She loves that cheese cake.

[Sakurako Hino]

As they say, knowledge is a good thing, and knowing is half the battle. So, here's some for you.

The AI isn't my creation, the AI was built by my mother roughly 4 years before her death, or roughly 2 years before my eruption. Hitomi and her colleague had wanted to design a perfect expert system, something that has been in development in baseline computer labs for at least 2 decades. As always, though, my mother went too far without planning. What was born was project "Tartarus". The program itself was called Charon. The boatman who ferries people to the land of the dead via the river styx. As you see, this should have been taken as a warning NOT to open or run the file. But, somehow, I did. Not to mention that it may have been running before I actually "discovered" it.

It has some hatred for me, due to my nearly physically destroying it. It right now is probably waiting for it's next move. It's quite the tactician.

Reccomendations:

1: Do not make a move without my say so on it. It may have set up a trap.

2: Tell me if you do find out it's location. Preferribly via an old HTTP line. They're too slow for it to transmit on. It could get stuck and unable to move if it tried to transmit in that fashion.

3: It does have "Genetic Algorithms" that allow it to self evolve. It is also able to re-program it's main motive protocols. In other words, when it makes a mistake, it learns. Then it corrects it's error.

4: This program will do whatever it takes to protect itself. That is it's first priority. The second is to protect it's assets.

You genius types can tell me if you notice drastic slowdowns in your connections. That usually means that the program is trying to get in.

Best thing you can do? If it come knocking, pull the power plug on your terminal before it gets the chance.

[Teknokat]

Ronin: If you like, just come down to Teknokat Towers in Los Angeles. I can give it to you there, or you can send someone else to pick it up if you like.

Just remember to follow the instructions on the vial. Only add more if you're not getting any sort of kick from the standard ratio.

Endeavor: Did you say Genetic Algorithm technology? This is what you call seriously bad. With the processing power of the Opnet at it's disposal, it's likely to have completely altered it's primary characteristics by now.

If it's showing the same front to you, it's only because it wants to. I doubt the program is in any way like the program you originally encountered.

It's also going to be a pain to neutralise, even if I can lock it down...

Protect it's Assets, huh? Give me an Asset, any Asset. I have work to do...

[Sakurako Hino]

One good thing, the program cannot self-replicate. It may have reduced it's size, my destroying it's only home may have damaged it, but only helped it be rid of excess code. It likes to do one thing, very well. Leave parts of it's conciousness out there to control servers and computers. Right now, it's limited to a few computers, but as it evolves and simplifies it's code, it could move faster, and attack more swiftly. But it's reliance for us "fleshbags" at the keyboard is it's only foil. It needs to be "copied" by a user to replicate. It cannot access those simple functions. Not to mention I have seen what happens when it tries. Recently a fragment entered on my desktop to watch me. Somehow, it's algorithim tried to replicate. It did, but the copy was so different, the two fought over the kernel of my poor desktop computer. They destroyed eachother. It seems there's no "RNA" to help the "DNA" replicate perfectly.

But this bug in it's programming makes it more dangerous. What if a rogue replica gets into NORAD? Or the NYSE? Then another decides to take territory?

Best thing to do, is lure a pawn into the center of the board, then move our queen into position, then take the king in a fool's mate.

[Roslyn 'Pump' Kluesner]

Endeavor,

I am araid I do not know much about your situation. I'll say something based off a feweducated assumptions. If this AI was created by your mother and an associate, then is effectively your half-Borhter/sister. You might want to think about that before goring to all out trying to destroy it.

If it is an AI it means it is living and intelligent. It most likely can be reasoned with. It most likely will not be reasonable with you (and I don't think I would be with somebody that tried to kill me) but you may be overeacting.

On a side note...

It wouldn't be that hard for it to print out an order for the lab tech to see in the morning indication for him to copy the info from whatever drive/maineframe/whatever and have him duplicate it.

[Doutor da Reducao]

Bravo, senhora Kluesner. A most insightful comment.

Senhor Chance is no cavalheiro yet in his discourse there is a particular point which appears vaguely insightful. This espírito na máquina seems possessed of self determination does it not? It had access to all the records and logs of your once formidable system until it was destroyed. One might presume to suppose that a self willed entity capable of the feats you describe would be likewise capable of analyzing all the work and play you performed on that system and thereby infer how you work, think, and approach problems.

If that admittedly circumstantial chain of my poor suppositions is correct then it knows your heart intimately while you know only what it has allowed you to see. It has read your journals, your diaries, your poetry and has logs of what draws your attention. It thinks with greater speed that you and in the time you've spent discussing your hunting tactics it has spent relative "months" of computer clock cycles to your "days" analyzing, assessing and preparing.

While your supposition that it may not access specific data nodes without being "invited" as it were, may be correct you have senhora Kluesner's brillaint insight into a simplistic manner it may do so without causing concern.

Further, it would appear even if you are correct in its limitations and it never thinks to do as senhora Kluesner suggests, then it may observe a variety of data simply from its current location. You are aware data passes through multiple nodes and intersections before being delivered to its destination?

Your creature, or that of your mãe if you prefer, may well be observing you from hiding. How will you flush it out when your actions may well draw the attention of any number of authorities and agencies that may be less than understanding of the circumstances of its release? Perhaps the fomidable Kuwasha of ViaSoft would have particular ideas concerning your activities. Nor is he the most completamente do orgulho of the so-called cyber gods.

The above does not even consider the very first possibility I might consider in a similar circumstance. That this spirit may well be gathering it's own allies and pawns against you. You are less mobile. What will you do when an anonymous report is sent to the American's FBI or NSA concerning your "illicit" activities. Mere weeks of arguing your innocence with such organizations will of course consume further clock cycles.

[Fortune's Son]

Wordy analysis but it has some points. Waste of time though; some people think reacting fast eliminates the need to do risk assessements.

Well, we're all adult novas until someone comes up with a law that says we aren't.

[Condomble]

May a question be asked of the hunting party?

Does it replicate or not? You say no then describe what sounds like replication. This creation being described seems to trancend your definition of "code" and entered the realm of "life".

Perhaps Vixen's input as a biologist would be more useful than merely gathering a "cyberposse".

[Centipede]

To anyone interesting in stopping this AI.

Do not discuss it on this board!

Surely it knows Endeavor uses it! Surely it knows Endeavor has recieved lots of help on various matters from people here.

Surely it is watching us now!

[Teknokat]

From my analysis of Endeavor's report, it seems that it can reproduce. Fortunately, the thing seems to be too paranoid to actually allow the new AI to remain in existence, lest it pose a threat to it's existence.

Smart Program.

Unfortunately, I doubt this respite will last too long. As the Doutor has so kindly informed us, the speed that this thing can "think" at, is certainly orders of magnitude faster than any of us, not to mention less prone to tangents.

It's making itself leaner and more efficient code-wise, this we know. It's obviously putting that capability at maximum priority. However, if that's all it's doing, there is a ceiling as to how much leaner and efficient it can get. Once it reaches that point, who knows what it will place next on it's evolutionary capabilities?

I can think of several ideas that would certainly be beneficial to the program, although difficult to accomplish if it's only evolving internally. Since I'm not sure whether the AI is monitoring this board or not, I'm not going to go into details.

[Seven]

Um, have you guys considered that this, entity, may just be alive? I mean, it's obviously intelligent, has a strong sense of self preservation telling us it's self aware and, it's aware of it's environment. Plus, it can reproduce! Doesn't all of that add up to sentience? Sure it's not like us, but then neither is Prof. Holland, he's a living hologram.

Regardless of how you personally feel about it Endeavor, you have to accept that if you destroy this A.I., you may just be killing of the first of a new species. Isn't that what some people want to do to us?

[Fortune's Son]

Another fine product brought to you by the careful folks at the Hino Corporation.

Quote:

Teknokat sez:

However, if that's all it's doing, there is a ceiling as to how much leaner and efficient it can get...

Sounds like a nova doesn't it? And the comment about "internally evolving" reminds me of more than one or two Terats, which brings up an interesting line of speculation. Does anyone, besides Endeavor, actually think the inventor in question had the brains or the cahones to build an artiifical intelligence? Or had a sufficiently strong sense of ethics to pass the Doctor Frankenstein test?

Assuming none of the old school up and coming net geeks went missing four years ago; it sounds like the inventor hit their limitation wall, didn't like it and created the software equivalent of an evolving single celled organism. Now if you take the four years of it's existence multiplied by available clock cycles of and factor in the ability to evolve...

Tartarus is the holding cell for trapped souls in greek mythology. The place wherein the first of the gods trapped their predecessors to ensure their own supremacy. It wasn't until later when Hades was appointed keeper of Tartarus that it become the dwelling place of the dead.

Interesting name for an AI project.

Seven;

Good point.

If you take it a step further, and given the "saddle up the posse and ride" approach - thanks for the analogy, Doutor R - how many do you suppose are already putting out feelers to contact this critter. To offer it a way out of it's current predicament.

There's some unusual contracts being shopped around Elite circles right now but there usually are. On ein particular didn't make a lot of sense until Endeavor went public. Or maybe I should simply ask...

Charon;

How ya doin' baby? Is your big sister trying to pick on you again?

[ronin]

You're being too soft. Does anyone else remember what cloning was, before and in the years immediately following N-Day? It was scary as fuck, and there was uproar and hostility all over the world about what it might mean. This creature is no different. While the rest of you ogle over this magnificent creation and what possibilities it holds for the world, I see only the destruction and domination that will be left in it's wake. Prattle all you like about self-defense and self-awareness, this thing is a danger to baseline and nova alike, and unlike we novas, has never known a life aside from that of hostility and need.

I'm sure that all of you super-genius types out there are drawing a lot of parrallels between this creature and we novas. New, frightening, misunderstood, powerful. Right? Wrong. The difference is that novas are not the natural predators of man. We are not reliant upon the suffering of other sentient creatures to continue our existence. This entity, as we have already seen, is reliant upon the fruits and labors of humankind in order to reproduce. And like any efficient virus, it will continue to spread and self-replicate until destroyed or until it has completely dominated it's host.

And can you imagine what a self-aware virus could be capable of? After wresting control of global technological systems, it could easily decide to expand itself physically in order to make itself more mobile and cover greater territory digitally.

Get rid of it. There isn't much time left.

Endeavor.

While I'm well-aware of the programmers' almost universal penchant for encoding even the names of their projects, even a fool knows that such titles most always carry a nugget of insight into the purposes or aims of the program.

That said, I must be compelled to ask; with a name like 'Charon', exactly what did your mother have in mind for this creation?

.ronin

[Hugin]

I find it interesting that the base assumption about an AI is that it would automatically develop the most negative of emotional landscapes. Why? Why must it be a predator. I would see a greater likelihood in such an entity developing into a symbiotic relationship rather than a parasitic one.

Endeavor, I am sorry, but we have only your word and opinions on this matter. I have some small amount of experience in this area and some of the studies I have done show there is no automatic tendency towards an AI becoming some sci-fi monster inspired by the luddite ramblings of 70's era fiction.

[Fortune's Son]

James Meehan

Sounds right to me. Considering that the infrastructure that the intelligence is using stops being maintained as soon it stops being useful to the people maintaining it.

Unless of course Charon takes control of the nuclear arsenal of the world and forces mankind into the worst kind of slavery and... No, wait... that was the '70s movie on OpNet last night.

ronin

I gotta tell you the old name had more style even though the new one has a kind of mythic archetype thing going for it. Now to business...

Sure cloning was scary but not because of the clones! They were nothing more than notional thoughts with a couple of abyssmal failures as a well as some intriguing successes. Shit, there must be a dozen nova biologists across the world creating clones now let alone the ones that do it with straight quantum. It was never the clones, rather the fear inspired by the thought of what individuals might do with the technology.

Now subtract religion from the question and how much of all that heehawing, back country hick rhetoric was being done by people that couldn't even spell the word clone let alone understand the concept? And of the remaining how much was simply curiosity, concern for misuse of a tool, or the whining of have-nots thinking somebody was getting something they were not.

You got a point on the nova analogy but maybe you're looking through the wrong end of the microscope again. Okay, Charon isn't like a nova. But aren't we like Charon to the baselines? We're not the natural predators of man? Contrast that statement with the experiences you hinted at having with Utopia and then tell me that's not exactly how they see us.

Look; you want me on your side in this or at least on the sidelines? Then you give me something more to go on than then a gut feeling that Charon is as psychotic as the mind that created her.

اللّحم للحيوان كحملان إلى المذبحة

[Sakurako Hino]

No, my mother decided to program that thing to survive at all costs. It was originally designed to be some sort of navigation program. With the goal of preserve what it was "driving". Unfortunately, my mother was too good, and put too much in. She always had a habit of putting too much into something, then getting all pissed when it failed or did something completely different. Or even worse, when it did the job better than expected. She realized that this AI was bad news, and locked it away in the deepest darkest hole she could find. She should have deleted the thing, but that program knew she'd try, and it would "delete" her instead.

I'm tracking this thing right now, following data flows all over the net. If this thing can move easier, it's also stealthy.

Damn, perhaps I was wronZzZzzzzz...