Aberrant RPG - Aberrant divorced from the rest of the Aeon Continuum

[NFVD]

Fellow Aberrantophiles Unite!

Join me in a scientific experiment, if you will.

First, if you have any Adventure! or Trinity books join them all in a pile on the floor.

Next, acquire a few gallons of some highly flammable liquid (kerosene will do the trick nicely) and spray it generously over aforementioned pile.

Finally, light a match, drop it over said pile and back away observing the conflagration.

Done that? Hope not, otherwise you just wasted dozens of well-earned dollars.

But anyway, imagine for a while that Aberrant is a game totally on its own and you (like me) decide to divorce it completely from the Aeonverse, ignoring all those irritating titbits from Adventure! and Trinity. Essentially free of their taint (pun intended).

You are left with a damn fine game that requires some pruning, and that is what this post is all about.

I request the help of your collective minds in trying to make Aberrant function solely on its own. Let us see what needs to be answered or changed.

ASSUMPTIONS (derived from total elimination of Adventure! and Trinity canon)

- Max Mercer either never existed as portrayed or is a normal, albeit long-lived human being, an ex-mundane adventurer and a philanthropist that created a charity. Is influence in the setting is now nil.

- Davis Mal is a “normal” Nova that erupted in N-Day as everyone else, instead of a 100-year old survivor of the Telluric Engine incident. His uncanny understanding of Nova nature derives not from a lifetime of experimentation but from either unique levels of mental prowess or a signature Quantum Power.

- The Alien races do not exist or are “out there” oblivious to mankind

- Psions do not exist and never will

- Neotic energy does not exist

- Psyads may exist but if they do they are not proto-psions “but something else”. The source of their power will of course have to be Quantum.

- Stalwarts, Inspired and all that bunch never existed. As far as the world knows the Novas are the first ever-recorded manifestation of Meta-Humanism in history. The legends of the past with their “super-beings” might give food for thought, however.

- The Aberrant Wars are a looming event in the future that will unavoidably happen barring some major changes in the world. Its starting date however is fluid depending on many factors. If they do take place their ultimate ending is totally open to speculation.

- N-Day was caused by unknown causes. The Galatea might be related to it or might simply be a coincidence.

- The tainting of the environment by taint-heavy Novas and the uber-ammounts-of-taint-upon-eruption phenomena before, during and after the Aberrant Wars are Trinity canon so will be ignored, as will the Quantum-shift situation of Earth planet when Divis Mal leaves and the consequent radical drop in Eruption levels. This also means that the reason for high eruption rates is not any Nova tampering with Quantum Mastery or somesuch.

- Eruption levels might vary from year to year but the average will remain constant with the values mentioned on the rulebook (30-40 per month I believe?)

- Nova children (as presented in Aberrant: Teragen) are for all intent and purpose perfectly normal children. There have been no reported cases of Nova embryos erupting in their mothers womb, babies born with tentacles or toddlers moving mountains and manifesting Buda-level awareness. They are simply more likely to experience eruption.

- Eruption as always happened among relatively young members of the human race. Certainly never earlier than late teens. Again, no God-toddlers.

- Novas will not just universally all “go insane” between 2030-2050. As time passes select individuals might acquire their fair share of mental Aberrations but this is by no means universal or ubiquitous in time, even during the Aberrant War.

That’s about all I can remember at the moment. Please tell me if I have forgotten anything.

A list follows on the issues I think must be tackled:

The Truth Behind Aeon Society

This is the biggest issue to tackle and the hardest. Mercer is not jumping round the space-time continuum toying with the fate on humankind. The problem is, of course, justifying how without knowing the future and the nature of Novas beforehand they are able to broke a deal with the UN 30 or so days after N-Day, explaining how the forming of MS-Centres (plus the fact that they work). And more importantly, their rabid anti-Nova hidden agenda screams for a reason when we consider they do not know for a fact that the Aberrant Wars are coming nor when they will happen. We must overdrive out brains and come up not only with a plausible justification for Aeon’s apparent insight about Novas but also satisfactory mischievous reasons for their agenda and goals.

True Nature of Novas

Novas are not the result of an accident, neither has their coming into existence been the result of a directed outside force. They simply are human evolution at work. The only possible path? Unknown at this time. As of so far they are the only known manifestation of it. Now that the road stretches into infinity and Novas will not simply become the monsters of Trinity what will be their ultimate fate? What will the far future hold for them as a whole?

True Nature of Taint

No longer just what will be responsible for turning Novas into the 21st century tentacled monstrosities we love and hate and the force that essentially f***s up large areas of the planet with blight. Taint is simply a name given to a phenomenon observed in certain Novas manifested in mental and physical symptoms. So far no “cure” has been found but Teragen has shed some light into its nature and a way of dealing with it. By no means potentially the only or definite one. Just what is taint exactly now that Quantum is no longer the “polluting” meta-energy counter-pointing the “cleanness” of Neotic? Can it be “cured”? Will there be another option besides Chrysalis?

Note that I will assume that Taint is “hard” to get as per Aberrant rules. We all know it takes a real Quantum-Twinkie to become a tentacled monstrosity. I remind you again that the slavering beasts of the Aberrant Wars and 22nd century are fictional. This, combined with the Novas no longer universally “loosing it” in a future point in time makes taint less insidious in the game setting.

Divis Mal Re-loaded

Yes ladies and gentleman the Ubermensh himself. No longer the pro-nazi centenarian that was the cause of it all and that more than anyone firmly believes that the ends more than justify the means. This much loved/hated character is just another Nova, albeit a special one. What should we change about him? His actions have now to be examined under a different light and his future ones have to be written anew. The reason for his unmatched insight into the nature of his race must be elaborated. How did he come upon Chrysalis? Where does his zeal steam from? Pure faith in himself and his race? Cleansed from his Adventure! past and his Trinity destiny he has the potential to become a hero, or at least a anti-hero instead of a villain. I think this new Divis Mal is a much more sympathetic character. Maybe an even more easily accessible one in lieu of the aloof Demigod we once knew?

The Aberrant Wars

The second proverbial thorn in our backsides after the Aeon Society issue.

While an inherent future fact of the setting unless the player-characters pull off some impressing feats of role-playing, given that all the sparse info we have on them is Trinity’s domain their cause, starting date, duration and even outcome are now big, open question marks.

We must identify what factors must be in place to lead the UN into the infamous declaration of war upon a race.

This task may be almost impossible but with some forumites knowing the Aberrant setting in and out, we might just be able to determine what might happen after 2015 and point out roughly what components of the setting will escalate until they become the motors of the declaration of war. Basically, we must determine the “point of no return” and what will lead into it.

Campaigns set after 2015 might be about dealing with the fuses that will eventually ignite the war.

As for the infamous Chinese Ultimatum. Leaving aside that it’s an ugly manifestation of Deux Ex Machina and riddled with so many inconsistencies it nearly spawned flame-wars in these very forums. It will not happen as it has been stated that it was Aeon-engineered and they now lack the prescience granted by Mercer that would allow its planning and execution.

This throws the door open on the war’s resolution. Notwithstanding player-character intervention what will happen? Who will win the war? How long do they last? What part does Divis Mal play now that he is no longer the Moses that will lead his people into space when threatened with nuclear holocaust?

The blighting of America, the death of the Opnet, the sinking of Florida and the great Mexico earthquake are no longer written in stone. The first one will not happen under any circumstance because blight is not Aberrant canon.

The Aberrant Wars are hard to tackle because we know so little about who is fighting when and where, even if we choose to incorporate data from Trinity about it that does not contradict the “new” Aberrant canon. At the every least we should identify the major factions involved and determine in broad strokes their courses of action. What will Teragen do? What is the proportion of Novas fighting besides the UN? Does every nation rally behind UN’s clarion call? What about Japan and India with their Nova-worship? What factions are still present?

Now that blight is no more and they don’t just become cthulhu’s love child when their Node goes “on”, what happens as humans fighting against Novas themselves erupt?

And the 1,000,000$ question, just what type of war are we talking about here? Is there any nation fighting for the Novas deploying their armies against other baseline armies in a style of warfare unseen for decades? Do Elites still sell their services to the highest bid? Are there true Nova battles with hundreds of them on each side? Are nukes, chemical or bacteriological weapons used? Etc, etc, etc.

Project Utopia, T2M and Proteus

Damn I tend to write like crazy...

I leave the good, nice, angelical people of this clearly holier-than-Jesus, light-of-heavens-shining-out-of-their-collective-arses for last. (damn, I can be a sarcastically bastard when I want to he?)

Our official Aberrant Timeline so far ends in 2015 and things are not looking goof for Utopia

This is an area I’m particularly ignorant of since I have no access to either Aberrant Worldwide: Phase I or II.

After 2015 and leading into the Aberrant Wars Utopia’s overall presence in the setting must be determined. Does it just fizzle out, or do they make a comeback and clean their house a bit?

If still a major player does it try to become the voice of reason as the plasma and bullets start flying or does it turn their guns fully upon the wretched Novas that have betrayed its ideals?

Are the various T2M’s still around? How many original members of T2M are still around, or allied with Utopia for that matter? Has Utopia become practically devoid of Novas or do they become the counterpoint to the anti-baseline Novas, has their ranks swell with Novas that refuse to forsake their humanity and turn upon the baselines they themselves once were? Was Utopia still a member of the UN when it declares war?

Regardless, Proteus will be having a field day of the orgasmic nature when (in its own mind) the justification for all it stands for takes place....that is, if it’s still around. Their effect on the overall war will be symbiotically linked to what befalls Project Utopia, they might become a major player in the war, maybe even revealing their existence to the UN (remember Mercer has given no stealth-unto-the-22nd-century orders) and becoming their “secret weapon”. Or the organisation as a whole might not even be around anymore, or be so reduced in power as to be a paper tiger.

,,

Well these several thousands of characters are more than enough (some would say too much, oy vey that it took me a long while to write all this).

Fellow forumites. I await your opinions eagerly, as ever.

[Alex Green]

RE: Mal

If Divis is dropped from Q8 down to Q6, then it is actually possible to do many things. Make peace, win the war, etc. Pax might actually be able to kill him and prove he really is the number one nova.

RE: True Nature of Taint

It's brain damage to the node. The node gets damaged, generates powers in an unstable manner, this gets geometically worse as time goes on.

RE: Truth Behind Aeon Society

Make Max a nova who erupted on N-day with Mega-Int & Mega-Wits. He realizes what has to be done, he does it. Maybe Aeon also has a precog who warns of the war.

RE: The War

First of all, if Trinity is tossed out then the war doesn't really have to come. What fires up the war is the first Q8 Terrorist act. But to be realistic Q6 would probably work.

There are *huge* forces at work to make things stable between baselines and novas. Nova tech, nova industries, nova jobs and money, and by that I mean that all of the industries are making *HUGE* amounts of money with novas, nova protections (no more huricanes), nova healers, nova temporal manips making the old young.

There are also huge forces at work to cause the war. Baseline resentment of the novas hogging all the top spots of the income pyramid. Novas breaking the laws. Taint. The Teragen. Nova inhumanity. And finally...

...one of the definitions of a functional government is that it has a monopoly on the legitament use of force. It's real easy to find groups of 10 people who disagree, sometimes violently. Normally this is a problem for local police... unless they are novas. 10 novas can overthrow a country. Either novas find a way to enforce the law on their own members or eventually war breaks out as governments try to do it for them.

[SkyLion]

::cry But...I like Adventure! and Trinity!

,,

Seriously though, as usual its your game and I actually like it as a standalone game, or even throw out the setting if you want and use the rules generically.

,,

Mostly I thought your ideas were good, but as to this:

,,,,

The blighting of America, the death of the Opnet, the sinking of Florida and the great Mexico earthquake are no longer written in stone. The first one will not happen under any circumstance because blight is not Aberrant canon.

,,

Actually it is refered to in Aberrant Canon. The Harvesters have their Heartland in the midwest. Altaz "The Apothecary" Zia performs terrible taint experiments on Wycoff in the years leading up to the war...

[Alex Green]

Speaking of Wycoff, if you crunch the numbers you find he wasn't Q6. He was Q8.

[SkyLion]

Speaking of Wycoff, if you crunch the numbers you find he wasn't Q6. He was Q8.

,,

What numbers are you crunching, Alex? ::huh

[Alex Green]

I don't recall the exact numbers, but in general...

If you are talking about effecting one city, that's Q6 with Mastery.

If you are talking about effecting the bulk of North America, that's Q8 with Mastery x2.

Wycoff warped food production over thousands of km.

An area power usually has an effect measured in (Q+D)x5m. Even if you change that to km, 12x5km is only 60km (that'd be Q6 with 6 dots with Mastery). But you need to put a couple more zeros in there to get thousands of km.

Thus Mastery x2. Thus Q8.

Considering we are talking about Elemental Mastery: Taint (or something like that) as a power theme, he could even be the moron who turned the Earth from a low taint settting to a high taint setting.

Moving back to the topic, think of what we did about 9-11. That's one Q6 nut. Which means that people like Wycroft need to be put down before they hit Q8.

...or it may mean that the war really is going to happen no matter what.

[NFVD]

Er...my esteemed savants of Aeon lore.

Perhaphs I did not clearly specify what my goal was in posting this huge rambling that took me over an hour to write...

I was hoping for actual hands-on and advice on the subjects I threw around. Specific itemised ideas, advice and opinions that will help me and anyone that wishes a "divorced" Aberrant campaign.

I simply cannot tackle the sheer monumental task alone.

::cry But...I like Adventure! and Trinity!

So do I, from what little I know about them, my gripe is with them tainting my pristine Aberrant setting with their Telluric and Neotic sludge. ::laugh

Seriously though, as usual its your game and I actually like it as a standalone game, or even throw out the setting if you want and use the rules generically.

I love the setting more than the rules btw.

,,

Blight Actually it is refered to in Aberrant Canon. The Harvesters have their Heartland in the midwest. Altaz "The Apothecary" Zia performs terrible taint experiments on Wycoff in the years leading up to the war...

I dont recall reading anything about Blight in any Aberrant literature. I will take your word for it but taint experiments do not equal blight. Also, "the years leading up to the war" would put that intp Trinity's domain. Remember that Aberrant cannon effectively ends in 2015 and the war starts in 2049.

[NFVD]

RE: Mal

If Divis is dropped from Q8 down to Q6, then it is actually possible to do many things. Make peace, win the war, etc. Pax might actually be able to kill him and prove he really is the number one nova.

What will that acomplish?

RE: True Nature of Taint

It's brain damage to the node. The node gets damaged, generates powers in an unstable manner, this gets geometically worse as time goes on.

Damn fine idea, sir. Would also explain why Taint is hard to get rule-wise.

RE: Truth Behind Aeon Society

Make Max a nova who erupted on N-day with Mega-Int & Mega-Wits. He realizes what has to be done, he does it. Maybe Aeon also has a precog who warns of the war.

That would make him the only senior Nova in existance. Even if he had a revelation how could he get all the necessary infrastructure momentum as to present a fully-fledged project to the UN in circa 30 days.

This would also turn him into and uber-villain, making him the driving force behind Proteus, Nova sterility and illegal eugenic research. it would also make him the foulest traitor of his race. Divis Mal looks almost angelical compared to this. The precog could meet Max while the project is being planned effectively ending the "honeymoon" period before it starts and kickstarting the darker understone of Proteus.

It smeels a bit like Deux Ex...

I like this but we need to elaborate and polish the idea.

RE: The War

First of all, if Trinity is tossed out then the war doesn't really have to come. What fires up the war is the first Q8 Terrorist act. But to be realistic Q6 would probably work.

Actually there is much Aberrant cannon that indicated a war (not necessarily similar to Trinity Aberrant War TM) is very much in the horizon and unavoidable unless something BIG is done about it.

There are *huge* forces at work to make things stable between baselines and novas. Nova tech, nova industries, nova jobs and money, and by that I mean that all of the industries are making *HUGE* amounts of money with novas, nova protections (no more huricanes), nova healers, nova temporal manips making the old young.

There are also huge forces at work to cause the war. Baseline resentment of the novas hogging all the top spots of the income pyramid. Novas breaking the laws. Taint. The Teragen. Nova inhumanity. And finally...

true...true

...one of the definitions of a functional government is that it has a monopoly on the legitament use of force. It's real easy to find groups of 10 people who disagree, sometimes violently. Normally this is a problem for local police... unless they are novas. 10 novas can overthrow a country. Either novas find a way to enforce the law on their own members or eventually war breaks out as governments try to do it for them.

Which would mean it would be up to PCs to try and construct the fabled "Nova Nation". All power groups will have something to say about that, and Teragen will certainly try to undermine any attemtps to create something like this, turning them more into the role of villains.

[Hyper-Focus]

RE: The Aberrant War and its Aftermath:

Okay, I know we're ignoring Trinity but go ahead and download India Underground from this site and read the bit on India's history during the AbbieWar. Several uber-powerful novas get some taint-maddened idea in their head and go off half-cocked and almost ruin an entire sub-contitent. I see that as a good microcosm of AbbieWar that I will now attempt to extrapolate for your purposes.

The AbbieWar isnt a series of battles, per se. Its a series of local, regional, national and international conflagrations and incidents that eventually reach critical mass. Nova coups of baseline governments start happening with alarming rapidity. Most of the Trinity refrenced events can still occur. Mexico City still gets leveled and Flordia still get flooded, unless you have other atrocities you'd perfer to fill their place. Maybe Jeuruselem is reduced to smoking rubble in cross religous and sectarian conflict or the population of Sao Paulo (the worlds most populous city) erupts in an orgy of fire and blood at the behest of a mega-charismatic nova. Maybe "London Fog" goes batshit and floods London with the briney water of the Thames river. Maybe...well, you get the point.

All this causes what is, in effect, a cascade failure of economic systems and rules of law world wide. Do you really think globalized commerce would continue unimpeded with the equivlent of several dozen Iraq and Vietnam wars going on around the globe at any given time? Food shortages and massive refuge migrations ensue. Humankind...and Novakind are at the edge of disaster.

After that? Well...thats up for your characters to decide. By this point they should be able to nudge events a bit in the direction they choose. A distopian quantum free-for-all across the face of the world with baselines hiding like rats in the ruins? A breakthrough in baseline via nova weaponry that finally gives the humans the upperhand, perhaps even leading to a "Days Of Future Past" type deal. Or maybe a (non-Utopia) group of Novas take responsability for the training and care of Novas, and take responsability for taking down those novas that cant be reasoned with. Is this, in fact, what the Nova government the Aberrants or even the Teragen will eventually evolve into?

Who knows what'll happen...but it should make for a good game should your timeline progess that far.

[NFVD]

With the change of nature of the campaign the Aberrant War has the potentical to be much less destructive and drawn-out.

When we take what is said in Trinity at face value about the war it is clear only insane sentients would do what the aberrants did.

But Novas will not just go "apeshit" or insane in 2030-2050, your description looks like the classical Aberrant War.

The Novas dont go to war, their have war forced upon them by people who would make the Nazis proud. Of course a few Novas have been jumping around tossing quanta-bolts like frisbies but that is a tiny minority.

Most of the mega-atrocities in the war will be commited as acts of desperation by powerful novas, by novas who were driven to far (not Tainted mosnters), imagine suffering from severe PTSS when you can fart thermonuclear detonations. Are you evil? No. Are you different than a soldier who's lost his mind in, say, the Vietnam war? No. Are you dangerous? Absolutely.

There will be none of that "Look mom, i'm gonna tsunami/volcanize their colective asses because I CAN!" crap. Well maybe one large instance and a few minor ones.

I still need to elaborate the "Point of no return". I'm guessing other cults/groups besides Teragen really make such a pain of themselves that the baselines just "go insane" between 2030-2050 ::laugh

Maybe an armistice is possible. It is not that hard to see the Aberrants (group), a Teragen splinter sect and Utopian defectors to incinerate the UN and say:

"Listen you bums. Form up a new world council and WE WANT OUR BLOODY SEAT AND NATION THIS TIME!!"

I have not seen anyone mention it but it just struck me that the Novas are the best hope for stability and a unified earth government that the world has ever had. Even if baselines are "enslaved" by Novas is that any worse than being ruled by Political and religous nuts we have today? is it worse than living in this era of fear?

hmmm....

[metaphysician]

I don't recall the exact numbers, but in general...

If you are talking about effecting one city, that's Q6 with Mastery.

If you are talking about effecting the bulk of North America, that's Q8 with Mastery x2.

Wycoff warped food production over thousands of km.

An area power usually has an effect measured in (Q+D)x5m. Even if you change that to km, 12x5km is only 60km (that'd be Q6 with 6 dots with Mastery). But you need to put a couple more zeros in there to get thousands of km.

Thus Mastery x2. Thus Q8.

Considering we are talking about Elemental Mastery: Taint (or something like that) as a power theme, he could even be the moron who turned the Earth from a low taint settting to a high taint setting.

Moving back to the topic, think of what we did about 9-11. That's one Q6 nut. Which means that people like Wycroft need to be put down before they hit Q8.

...or it may mean that the war really is going to happen no matter what.

It could be Wycoff did a self-destructive power-max as his last action. . . or he hit Q8 and Taint 10 at the same time, and the consequence was "self-destruction."

[Alex Green]

It could be Wycoff did a self-destructive power-max as his last action. . . or he hit Q8 and Taint 10 at the same time, and the consequence was "self-destruction."

The Directive has a special drug called "eclipsol" which makes nova powers run wild. Basically they spend all of their juice, uncontrollable, right now. Think of it as an uncontrolled powermax. It's not really the sort of thing you want to use on a Q8 nova. ::wacko

On the other hand, we also have extremely rare instances of novas blowing up in other situations, we just don't have mechanics for it.

[metaphysician]

Forget Q8, I wouldn't want to think of the consequences on a Q6. I mean, Caestus Pax can *already* flatten a city with one shot, if he so desired. Dose him with Eclipsidol, and he'd probably take out a state or small country in one big TK shockwave.

Though, given the scale and permanence of what Wycoff did, I'd agree that whatever he did was Q8 equivalent, whether via Taint 10 self destruct or some kind of insane intentional self-destruction ( he was, apparently, some kind of taint-worshipping religious fanatic, after all; he could have seen what he was doing as 'abandoning the physical' or such, by means of transforming his entire being and power supply into raw taint ).

[Alex Green]

RE: Mal

In normal cannon, there is *no* way to avoid the war because there is *no* way to deal with Mal. He can’t be killed, imprisoned, or whatever so the core of the Teragen is always going to exist, and Mal is going to lead them away from humanity and thus into the aberrant war.

Making him a normal, albeit powerful, nova means it’s possible to win. Kill him and the Teragen has lost it’s inspiration, not just in practice but in theory as well. If Pax kills him then Pax can kill anyone, and he *will* kill anyone who steps too far out of line. Those are *huge* steps. All of the want-ta-bees who just follow power then follow Pax.

The local police don’t have to catch every killer or rapist in order to have a civilizing effect on society.

It’s a really bad thing for society when even the possibility of being caught isn’t there.

RE: Max

Max doesn’t have to be the Aeon nova who erupts and becomes the bad guy, but he is the logical candidate (Theis would be another good choice). His infrastructure momentum could come from several sources.

1) He simply happens to have the right gifts, combined with the right personal resources. Think of Bill Gates erupting, he already has the personal money, he’s already the head of several organizations so he has the man power, he already has the personal connections.

2) He erupts with temporal powers, and eventually gets Q8 with time travel and goes back in time to set up his younger self.

RE: Project Pro

In this new setting, Project Pro’s hat can be much less black.

You’ve already said that the 2nd gen aren’t novas, much less uber novas, so there is no need for a sterilization plot. Novas with taint are *much* less fertile than baselines, but that’s expected with their physical changes. Novas without taint have normal human fertility.

Project Pro exists to cover gaps where the law fails. For example that baseline eating nova who used mega-socials to avoid legal justice. For another example they to so called unethical taint research because nova-kind needs anti-taint drugs yesterday. When a nova nation is formed they will fall apart without anyone ever knowing they filled the gap.

Actually there is much Aberrant cannon that indicated a war (not necessarily similar to Trinity Aberrant War TM) is very much in the horizon and unavoidable unless something BIG is done about it.

Because Divis is around and he can’t be stopped. Without his Q8, all the PCs have to deal with is… taint, law ignoring novas, and resentful baselines.

Though, given the scale and permanence of what Wycoff did, I'd agree that whatever he did was Q8 equivalent, whether via Taint 10 self destruct or some kind of insane intentional self-destruction ( he was, apparently, some kind of taint-worshipping religious fanatic, after all; he could have seen what he was doing as 'abandoning the physical' or such, by means of transforming his entire being and power supply into raw taint ).

He went up during a raid on the compound by federal law enforcement agents (which sounds a lot like the Directive).

He has Q8, so why should he be afraid of some baselines with guns? For that matter, given his power, wouldn’t the Directive (whatever they’re called in 2050) have anti-nova gear?

[metaphysician]

Re: Mal, I disagree.

He provided Chrysalis, and he headed the Teragen, but I don't think his presence made the Aberrant War unavoidable. The Teragen was already forming before he came along, and probably would have formed anyway without him. . . and sans Chrysalis, they probably still would have headed towards more Taint.

Likewise, removing Mal after he founded the Teragen would just mean they start splintering, and radicalizing, even earlier than normal. After all, aside from busting Fong out of Bahrain, its not like his raw power shielded the Teragen in those early days much. In theory, the Teragen sans Mal are easier to take out, but in practice, I don't think it'd make enough difference to matter.

And even if the Teragen didn't exist, you'd still get Utopian overpushing of novas, so you'd get taint from that angle. And discontent with their activities. And, likely, the Aberrant faction. Plus, sans Chrysalis, there's certain novas who'd likely go insane even faster.

Basically, removing Mal alone wouldn't change the likelihood of the Aberrant War, IMHO. If anything, it might make the Aberrant War end in nuclear devastation, as he wouldn't be there to encourage novas into accepting the ultimatum and leaving ( which IMHO, he almost certainly did ).

[Alex Green]

Re: Mal, I disagree.

He provided Chrysalis, and he headed the Teragen, but I don't think his presence made the Aberrant War unavoidable. The Teragen was already forming before he came along, and probably would have formed anyway without him. . . and sans Chrysalis, they probably still would have headed towards more Taint.

What you are saying is that the war was unavoidable even without Mal… and that might be right. However Mal is the one factor that can’t be dealt with, even in theory. He’s not going to change his mind, and he’s got enough mega-socials that he’s going to sway a large number of novas.

Likewise, removing Mal after he founded the Teragen would just mean they start splintering, and radicalizing, even earlier than normal. After all, aside from busting Fong out of Bahrain, its not like his raw power shielded the Teragen in those early days much. In theory, the Teragen sans Mal are easier to take out, but in practice, I don't think it'd make enough difference to matter.

I never said it’d be easy… but Pax can take Geryon, and I’d rather have the power seeking moths hovering around Pax than Mal.

Imagine you are an independent nova, and you aren’t sure which side to join before the abby war. However, since Mal can’t be defeated, that’s the obvious side to join.

And even if the Teragen didn't exist, you'd still get Utopian overpushing of novas, so you'd get taint from that angle. And discontent with their activities. And, likely, the Aberrant faction. Plus, sans Chrysalis, there's certain novas who'd likely go insane even faster.

Without the Teragen, it’s possible that Utopia wouldn’t be forced into pushing their novas. Without Chrysalis, Terat novas would get less taint.

Basically, removing Mal alone wouldn't change the likelihood of the Aberrant War, IMHO. If anything, it might make the Aberrant War end in nuclear devastation, as he wouldn't be there to encourage novas into accepting the ultimatum and leaving ( which IMHO, he almost certainly did ).

You’ve skipped the Night of Long Knives and the radicalization of the Teragen, i.e. the part where Mal takes charge.

Without Mal to unify them, the Teragen splinters and fights itself, and probably never becomes unified at all.

[metaphysician]

Well, the main difference is, sans Mal, there wouldn't be a NoLK per se. However, there also wouldn't be a force keeping the various factions together in the Teragen. Thus, the more extremist factions wouldn't be restrained by internal Teragen politics.

So, no radicalizing NoLK, but no moderating influences. I peg it as a wash, overall.

Re: Wycoff, I'm not sure whether your disagreeing with me or not. Though if he was Q8, yeah, they'd have specialty anti-nova weapons going in ( unless they didn't know or were insane ). I'm a little reluctant to figure Eclipsidol working on a Q8 nova, though. Especially one specializing in taint manipulation, with a presumptive level of personal taint mutation to go with it.

[NFVD]

RE: Project Pro

In this new setting, Project Pro’s hat can be much less black.

You’ve already said that the 2nd gen aren’t novas, much less uber novas, so there is no need for a sterilization plot. Novas with taint are *much* less fertile than baselines, but that’s expected with their physical changes. Novas without taint have normal human fertility.

Project Pro exists to cover gaps where the law fails. For example that baseline eating nova who used mega-socials to avoid legal justice. For another example they to so called unethical taint research because nova-kind needs anti-taint drugs yesterday. When a nova nation is formed they will fall apart without anyone ever knowing they filled the gap.

I assume 2nd gen aren't novas (or uber novas) when inside their mum's belly and that eruption will not come until late teens. The source material shows no eruptions before late teens and it is not far to imagine that that the hormonal processes taking place during the phase are a pre-requisite for eruption to occur even if it only happens when you are 35.

The difference is the probability of eruption. I assume a pure-Nova kid would be much more likely to eventually erupt the same way you have a greater probability of having blue eyes if both parents have them.

I still think even in this setting Project Utopia could be as dark as before. They do a few Anthropological math and determine that with 30-40 natural eruption per month, Mega-fertility and uber-powerz, some point in the future the human race will become extinct weather "naturally" or by violent means. So they kick in Proteus, mastermind the genocide of Novas via Nova while using them as mules to make everything better for baselines and unifying the planet as much as possible under their "benevolent" influence to present an united baseline front when the shit hits the fan.

The misguided fools might actually believe it will work because back in 1998 no one knew what Q6-10 meant.

[metaphysician]

I assume 2nd gen aren't novas (or uber novas) when inside their mum's belly and that eruption will not come until late teens. The source material shows no eruptions before late teens and it is not far to imagine that that the hormonal processes taking place during the phase are a pre-requisite for eruption to occur even if it only happens when you are 35.

The difference is the probability of eruption. I assume a pure-Nova kid would be much more likely to eventually erupt the same way you have a greater probability of having blue eyes if both parents have them.

Thats pretty much how it is in Ancient Aberrant. The result is certain extended family lines of novas, most notably the Achaean princes, descendants of Herakles.

I still think even in this setting Project Utopia could be as dark as before. They do a few Anthropological math and determine that with 30-40 natural eruption per month, Mega-fertility and uber-powerz, some point in the future the human race will become extinct weather "naturally" or by violent means. So they kick in Proteus, mastermind the genocide of Novas via Nova while using them as mules to make everything better for baselines and unifying the planet as much as possible under their "benevolent" influence to present an united baseline front when the shit hits the fan.

The misguided fools might actually believe it will work because back in 1998 no one knew what Q6-10 meant.

Its certainly possible.

Though, am I the only one who thinks that fear and horror at the prospect of being replaced by novas/mutants/whatever via reproductive trends is completely idiotic? Its like being scared that all the people living today will be replaced with future generations. . . especially considering that those novas/mutants/whatever *are your own children*, likely as not.

[Alex Green]

So, no radicalizing NoLK, but no moderating influences. I peg it as a wash, overall.

The reason the NoLK is so radicalizing is because the radicals win. But Mal didn’t create those radicals, they exist without him (although granted, because of his theories). In cannon the NoLK occurs because Mal lets his followers run wild to separate the wheat from the chaff. But without him the NoLK is going to happen even quicker, it’s just no one will win.

Without Mal you have the same problems that a town without police has, there is no limit to how bad things can get because there’s no one to step in and everyone knows this. So…

1) The Harvesters declare war on all human-centric novas, including and especially their fellow Terats. Cannon says the only reason they haven't already done so is because they aren't willing to go to war with Mal.

2) If Mal gets a hair cut, then so does Scripture. Thus the Apostle will be taking charge, and he’s not one to suffer blasphemy… which means he’s going to try to take over Bountry’s crew, and he’s going to do something about Count O’s lifestyle, etc. The Apostle is going to want the Church to be everywhere and in everything, and he’ll go to war with anyone who tries to stop him.

3) One of the big reasons why people don’t try to take over Bounty’s group is because it might displease Mal… but as the NoLK points out, as soon as violence actually breaks out and people realize that it’s allowed for Terats to attack Terats, she becomes a prime target because she’s weak and guards something very important.

4) The Primacy has a problem with baselines in general, the Confederate has a problem with baselines and non white novas.

And yes, the list goes on. I see no way for them to avoid a massive civil war, and without Mal there’s not much reason to avoid it.

I still think even in this setting Project Utopia could be as dark as before.

Keep in mind that PU isn’t actually dark, that’s Project Pro’s job. PU really does lots and lots of really good things for everyone.

So they kick in Proteus, mastermind the genocide of Novas via Nova while using them as mules to make everything better for baselines and unifying the planet as much as possible under their "benevolent" influence to present an united baseline front when the shit hits the fan.

The misguided fools might actually believe it will work because back in 1998 no one knew what Q6-10 meant.

Personally I view Proteus (as a whole) as doing bad things for good reasons (or that’s what they tell themselves). Although Theis comes pretty close to wearing that black hat.

If you really want Novas to integrate with Baselines, then something like PU is the way to do it. And by implication the heavily tainted novas should be removed from society somehow... especially if they have powers that basically mean they are immune to the law and legal system. This is largely why the Directive was formed.

[metaphysician]

Re: the NoLK, I don't think we're disagreeing. If Mal gets removed, the Teragen goes more extreme and radical. Its just, I don't see Mal's presence one way or another inherently changing the end result. One way or another, the Teragen are going to go radical violent on the world. Its just a matter of exactly when.

Re: PU, I disagree that they aren't dark at all. Their PR tactics are squicky in the extreme, and they've got a fair deal of hypocrisy going on in the S&T regulation. OTOH, yes, the point of Project Utopia is that they are, mostly, good guys. Its the leadership and the Proteus connection where things get dark.

Something like Project Utopia is necessary and desirable ( hell, thats what Thera in Ancient Aberrant basically is ). The problem is the leadership made too many compromises, and their ultimate originators had too many ulterior motives. Basically, so long as the intended purpose of Utopia is to "use up" and control the novas, its on the wrong path. The fact that they did their best to portray Utopia as the only logical choice for being a good guy didn't help.

[Alex Green]

Re: the NoLK, I don't think we're disagreeing. If Mal gets removed, the Teragen goes more extreme and radical. Its just, I don't see Mal's presence one way or another inherently changing the end result. One way or another, the Teragen are going to go radical violent on the world. Its just a matter of exactly when.

Where the end result is different is that in cannon, when the dust settles, Mal is in charge of a unified movement.

Without Mal, no one will be in charge, and the movement will never unify.

Lots and lots of Terats will die, and with them also goes the ideal of a unified movement against the baselines. It will never again be possible to say that you're with the Teragen, now you'll have to say which part of the Teragen you're with.

And yes, tribal politics being what they are, the foe of my foe is my ally, so various Terat movements will drop dimes on other Terat movements. Count O's group will tell T2M where a Harvester enclave is, etc.

Further, much of the current attraction of the Teragen is that they are strong and one big family... making them weak and devided and back biting will greatly lessen their appeal.

[metaphysician]

Hmm, fair enough. OTOH, without a unified Teragen, you'd probably have fewer novas learning about Chrysalis. And while Chrysalis makes you more inhuman, it also preserves sanity.

[SkyLion]

2) If Mal gets a hair cut, then so does Scripture. Thus the Apostle will be taking charge, and he’s not one to suffer blasphemy… which means he’s going to try to take over Bountry’s crew, and he’s going to do something about Count O’s lifestyle, etc. The Apostle is going to want the Church to be everywhere and in everything, and he’ll go to war with anyone who tries to stop him.

If there is no Mal, then Delormier does not become the Apostle. After Caroline bothes her Chrysalis, he turns to find a new guru amongst the powerful of the nascent Pantheon. This will most likely be the Mathematician. With Delormier towing his line, perhaps Santiagos warnings are heeded and the Teragen takes a wholly different tack...

Just a thought.

[NFVD]

Though, am I the only one who thinks that fear and horror at the prospect of being replaced by novas/mutants/whatever via reproductive trends is completely idiotic? Its like being scared that all the people living today will be replaced with future generations. . . especially considering that those novas/mutants/whatever *are your own children*, likely as not.

No you are not alone. I pretty much realised the same the first time I read about Utopia’s hidden agenda, it makes them all the more worthy of contempt as they are both hypocritical and stupid.

Keep in mind that PU isn’t actually dark, that’s Project Pro’s job. PU really does lots and lots of really good things for everyone.

I’m sorry to disagree with you but for me Utopia is as evil as they come. Ok, It is freaking huge and with the right hand not knowing what the left is doing it is hard to pinpoint responsibilities. I think most members don’t have a clue about what they are doing or why. But that does not mean the organisation on a whole in not an evil entity. Project Proteus is a part of Utopia, an undercover and illegal part I might add and those in the known are fully aware it exists, even if they had no clue what it is about the every fact its secret and illegal taints Utopia.

Yes, PU did a lot of good things for many people. OTOH they are responsible for genocide, manipulation and denying an ethnic minority the 2nd most sacrosanct human right (reproduction).

The German people certainly benefited from Nazi conquest and exploitation of others as did the Imperial nations of Europe. Do we think of them as “good”? Utopia cannot affirm claims of righteousness when it heals with one hand and wounds with the other.

Of course if simply see it as a matter of numbers we can consider that when for the price 6000 victims they improve the life of millions it does not look that bad. The old “the needs of the many...” argument.

In that case we must admit that the American army in 1940’s was more evil than the Nazi’s in the concentration camps because, ultimately they slaughtered a greater number of German citizens and soldiers than the Jewish death tool in the caps.

Ok, these are extreme examples but the fact is matters of ethics and maths very rarely combine well

For me, what makes me believe in the evilness of Utopia is a little exercise I like to undertake when debating ethics, putting myself in the shoes of the people in question.

Place yourself in the position of a Nova who discovers she has been permanently sterilised by people she placed her trust on.

Doesn’t feel good does it? ::wink

Now imagine they tell you the people that did this abominating atrocity to you are good, because they clean the ocean, plug the ozone hole, cure aids and save babies from cannibal communist monsters.

It makes it worse doesn’t it? ::angry

They are not only evil they are hypocritical evil. ::laugh

I could not live with myself if I was a of Project Utopia and knew what was going on. My rejection of Project Utopia (insofar as it is a fictional organisation) makes me a better person, I think.

,,

Out of curiosity, can someone tell me if I am wrong about the ultimate end of the sterilisation agenda?

I don’t own WW Phase I or II but from what I understand, canonically nothing much happens to PU members after their secret sterilisation agenda comes into daylight.

I assumed at the very least everyone that remotely knew or was involved would face a hefty jail sentence with those more directly responsible gaining that privilege in a more permanent basis.

And given the scale of the thing (6000+ victims) it might be more sensible to define it as a Crime against Humanity (or Novakind), rather than just a criminal conspiracy.

Now that gets you a nice sizzling trip to a very particular type of chair or a very short drop with a sudden stop while a rope is around your neck, depending in jurisdiction you are in.

Hmmmmm...

[metaphysician]

If there is no Mal, then Delormier does not become the Apostle. After Caroline bothes her Chrysalis, he turns to find a new guru amongst the powerful of the nascent Pantheon. This will most likely be the Mathematician. With Delormier towing his line, perhaps Santiagos warnings are heeded and the Teragen takes a wholly different tack...

Just a thought.

A whole different tack perhaps, but the same ending point. Really, doesn't matter what ideology he's actually supporting, Delorimier is a guaranteed source of internal conflict and civil war.

I would disagree slightly, regarding Project Utopia. They aren't as bad as the Nazis, or even close.

Thats because the vast majority of the organization has no clue Utopia is doing anything but good stuff, or at least well meaning stuff.

The leadership who know about Proteus, and most if not all of Proteus itself, are culpable, but the tragedy of Utopia, the "If only," is that Utopia *was* achieving great amounts of good, and allowing many people to likewise achieve amounts of good.

If only they didn't create Proteus and send it out to sterilize novas. If only the leadership actually cared about doing good, as opposed to controlling novas. If only the Proteus and the Aeon Society didn't taint permanently all the people who joined Utopia to try and make a better world.

[Alex Green]

Hmm, fair enough. OTOH, without a unified Teragen, you'd probably have fewer novas learning about Chrysalis. And while Chrysalis makes you more inhuman, it also preserves sanity.

Yes and no. Chrysalis does, technically, preserve sanity. However...

1) Slapping down a -2 or worse social diff doesn't really imply sanity. Instead of a insane human monster we now have a sane inhuman monster.

2) Chrysalis greatly increases the speed at which novas develop taint (granted, converted into Chrysalis). So instead of taking a few decades to melt down we now have problems show up in a few years.

Everything considered, Chrysalis is not a good thing.

If there is no Mal, then Delormier does not become the Apostle. After Caroline bothes her Chrysalis, he turns to find a new guru amongst the powerful of the nascent Pantheon. This will most likely be the Mathematician. With Delormier towing his line, perhaps Santiagos warnings are heeded and the Teragen takes a wholly different tack...

I'm not saying that there never was a Mal. Without him cannon changes beyond recognition. But if he's a "normal" Q6 nova then he could in theory be killed outright by Pax. AB:WWI (part 4, i.e. the big Pax vs. Mal showdown) doesn't happen because Mal knows that Pax could and would kill him.

Or... put another way... say Mal gets killed while he's in his 4th Chrysalis (The Directive or someone was thinking about it...).

[NFVD]

A whole different tack perhaps, but the same ending point. Really, doesn't matter what ideology he's actually supporting, Delorimier is a guaranteed source of internal conflict and civil war.

I would disagree slightly, regarding Project Utopia. They aren't as bad as the Nazis, or even close.

I was not comparing them to the Nazis, I was making a hyperbolic statement on the nature of ethics and maths. And I did point out it was an extreme example.

Thats because the vast majority of the organization has no clue Utopia is doing anything but good stuff, or at least well meaning stuff.

Neither was the majority of Germany aware of the death camps and still we do hold the nation in the whole responsible for it.

The leadership who know about Proteus, and most if not all of Proteus itself, are culpable, but the tragedy of Utopia, the "If only," is that Utopia *was* achieving great amounts of good, and allowing many people to likewise achieve amounts of good.

I guess even the leadership unaware of the bad stuff going on is culpable of gross mismanegement and incompetence. That might carry legal penalties also.

If only they didn't create Proteus and send it out to sterilize novas. If only the leadership actually cared about doing good, as opposed to controlling novas. If only the Proteus and the Aeon Society didn't taint permanently all the people who joined Utopia to try and make a better world.

And if only Hitler had been a nice guy; for that matter Pol Pot and Stalin too. If only Martin L. King and Kennedy had not been shot. If only Vietnam had been a ressounding military sucess for America... ::laugh

Wishful thinking doesn't change facts and tears cannot change past mistakes.

I'm starting to like PU more and more, I don't think I have ever seen such a take on villany. The possibilities they open in any campaing are endless. ::happy

[Alex Green]

The problem with your analysis is that you admit the bulk of PU is good, and the vast bulk of the people who make it up are also good and have no clue about what is going on.

That's a very far cry from Nazi Germany.

Nor would I say that it's so huge that responsibility is hard to pin point. We know exactly who is doing what. Theis and a couple of others have a rogue operation. We even have strong clues as too why... they want to keep nova numbers down until taint can be addressed, presumably to keep the number of god-monsters down in 20 or 40 years.

Note that it's PU (actually Project Pro) that's desperately trying to research Taint, so much so that they've taken off the ethical blinders.

It's that old "do you torture the guy who knows where the ticking nuke is" argument put into reality. They are sitting on dozens of nukes, and they are taking deeply unethical action hoping it will pay off in the end. It doesn't, it blows up on them.

Place yourself in the position of a Nova who discovers she has been permanently sterilised by people she placed her trust on.

Our latest fan book is now out. "A breed apart". Look up please "Kinslayer", the lady in the back of the book. Also look up "Rebel Yell".

If I'd been sterilized, I'd be pissed. But the only solution worse than that might be not sterilizing me.

If we assume that most of the leadership of Project Pro has modivations other than shear, black hat evilness, and considering PUs background I think we have to, then moral shades of black become... still black, but maybe more understandable.

How about you? Do you torture the guy who knows where the ticking nuke is?

Neither was the majority of Germany aware of the death camps and still we do hold the nation in the whole responsible for it.

Bullshit. Hitler was very open about what he wanted to do and why. He even wrote a book about it before he took charge and gave speechs about it afterwards. Ignorance wasn't an issue until after the fact.

Further, what did most of those poor ignorant Germans *think* was going to happen when the dreaded secret police came to take Jews away? It is possible people might have thought they were *only* being made into slaves in work camps... but that is a VERY far cry from thinking you are working to cure cancer, aids, polution, etc.

No make that, "actually curing cancer, etc".

[NFVD]

How about you? Do you torture the guy who knows where the ticking nuke is?

Sure.

I just wouldn't sterilize inocent sentient beings because im was told to.

And I find it hard to belive that if someone sterilized you'd get pissed and then just let it blow over because supposedly its for the greater good. ::sly

But anyway this post is taking a detour from its original goal. I was trying to determine what changes would have to made to the setting if Aberrant is taken as a game tottaly on its own without the past-future constrictions caused by the other two games. While at the same time not changing anything visible at first glace or screwing the 1998-2015 chronology. I think I went a bit overboard with ideas in the original post at thrown to many ideas around. The only realy core issue is PU. After all it is a creation of the organization that interlicks all three Eras.

If PU acts generaly the same as it did in 1998-2008 the rest of the setting will flow according to cannon barring PC intervention. After 2015 everything is open to speculation but of course should any campaign reach that far the path willl be more or less defined. But not changing PU's behaviour is hard when you remove Mercer out of the equation.

In Aeon Continuum Canon, Project Utopia and sister projects are a sleeper agenda of Aeon Society which had 70 years to grow. When N-Day hits in takes them a month to sort out the rough edges, consolidate and take their case to the UN. It is not tottaly clear, and for this debate irrelevant, wheter the projects worked like Max originaly planned or if, tragically he lost control/influence over them to people of a darker nature who subverted the original goals and methods.

How to maintain the chronology of events after N-day when Mercer and the 70 year time warning/ are absent.?

Some suggestions were made about turning Mercer into a Nova with time-travel, or a super-intelligent one. This merely creates a nigh-unbeatable foe IMHO.

The genocide/sterilisation/control of Novas From its very inception PU goal (no matter how suggar-coated, and yes, no matter all the good that came out of it) was to neutrilize Novas. It is not hard to imagine that as time goes on a hardcore faction within PU would determine Novas are a threat and must be curtailed, therefore initiating the process. But to have these objectives clearly defined when the ink in UN's paperwork is not yet dry begs for an explanation.

As I am seeing things now, if we remove time-travel and knowledge of future events PU actions can only remain the same if the people pulling the strings and either insane or criminally evil. I would like a more subtle solution.

Can anyone toss a good alternate idea that does not involve Mr Max "ubber" Mercer or previous unquestionable knowledge of the future to solve this?

[BlueNinja]

Re: the NoLK, I don't think we're disagreeing. If Mal gets removed, the Teragen goes more extreme and radical. Its just, I don't see Mal's presence one way or another inherently changing the end result. One way or another, the Teragen are going to go radical violent on the world. Its just a matter of exactly when.

Actually, if you take out Mal completely, then you're left with the original three founders of the Teragen - Orzaiz, Fong, and Mathematician. All of whom can at least see human viewpoints. Divis Mal's world-wide announcement is what catapults the Teragen to mass popularity among the disaffected novas. Without that, then the Teragen is going to stay a smaller, niche nova movement. The other factions might come about on their own, but I would think it somewhat doubtful, as there is no central personality to bring them together.

The genocide/sterilisation/control of Novas From its very inception PU goal (no matter how suggar-coated, and yes, no matter all the good that came out of it) was to neutrilize Novas. It is not hard to imagine that as time goes on a hardcore faction within PU would determine Novas are a threat and must be curtailed, therefore initiating the process. But to have these objectives clearly defined when the ink in UN's paperwork is not yet dry begs for an explanation.

As I am seeing things now, if we remove time-travel and knowledge of future events PU actions can only remain the same if the people pulling the strings and either insane or criminally evil. I would like a more subtle solution.

Can anyone toss a good alternate idea that does not involve Mr Max "ubber" Mercer or previous unquestionable knowledge of the future to solve this?

You don't need time travel, all you need is a small cabal of rich, powerful people, who see novas appear and fear that they are about to lose their massive influence over world politics, and set about to curtail the nova threat. The downside with this explanation is that it makes the Aberrant War likely to occur sooner, as these rich and powerful people cannot outwit novas with mega-Int and mega-Wits.

... Oh yes, and I invoke Godwin's Law, you lose. ::laugh

[Alex Green]

I just wouldn't sterilize innocent sentient beings because I’m was told to.

Even if you were Max and had seen the future? Or if you were Kinslayer and had experienced what nova children are like?

And I find it hard to belive that if someone sterilized you'd get pissed and then just let it blow over because supposedly its for the greater good. ::sly

I wouldn’t. Like Rebel Yell, I’d be pissed and take revenge.

…not changing PU's behaviour is hard when you remove Mercer out of the equation.

Agreed.

How to maintain the chronology of events after N-day when Mercer and the 70 year time warning/ are absent.? Some suggestions were made about turning Mercer into a Nova with time-travel, or a super-intelligent one. This merely creates a nigh-unbeatable foe IMHO.

Mega-Int Max isn’t too bad. Give him Strategic and Tactical Prodigy and you’re pretty much there. There’s already going to be a number of Mega-Int novas around, Max just got there first.

Even the Time Traveling one isn’t too bad… after all the NPC that the PCs have to deal with is “current” Max and not “future” Max. You could even have him “find” a book from the future detailing what’s going to happen.

As I am seeing things now, if we remove time-travel and knowledge of future events PU actions can only remain the same if the people pulling the strings and either insane or criminally evil. I would like a more subtle solution.

Agreed.

Can anyone toss a good alternate idea that does not involve Mr Max "ubber" Mercer or previous unquestionable knowledge of the future to solve this?

Have Project Utopia simply be the name of the UN’s effort. Ditch the private company, just assume the UN was unusually competent on this issue at that time. You could even have a member of the UN erupt.

[metaphysician]

Actually, if you take out Mal completely, then you're left with the original three founders of the Teragen - Orzaiz, Fong, and Mathematician. All of whom can at least see human viewpoints. Divis Mal's world-wide announcement is what catapults the Teragen to mass popularity among the disaffected novas. Without that, then the Teragen is going to stay a smaller, niche nova movement. The other factions might come about on their own, but I would think it somewhat doubtful, as there is no central personality to bring them together.

Correction: Orzaiz, Fong, Mathematician. . . and Delorimier.

The Apostle without either Scripture or Mal would be. . . interesting. My guess is, he sets himself up as a focus for worship sooner than before, using a religious version of whatever theories the four come up with.

I think the other major factions probably would form, they just wouldn't ally with the Teragen. You'd still have charismatic supremacists, for example. Limits their influence, yes, but it also means they are more free to take their own path.

The Harvesters are a special case, IMO. Altaz Zia joined the Teragen because of what his own studies turned up. Without the Null Manifesto as a public example, he'd have to come up with stuff on his own. . . but he's probably smart enough to do so. No inventing Chrysalis from scratch, but if anybody is likely to discover it eventually independently, he is.

[NFVD]

... Oh yes, and I invoke Godwin's Law, you lose. ::laugh

Sorry BlueNinja I missed the joke. What is this law exacty? ::huh (yeah, I know its lame to explain jokes but bear with me...)

Even if you were Max and had seen the future? Or if you were Kinslayer and had experienced what nova children are like?

Alex, dude. Where can I find these stories? I checked the Eon fiction section and i cannot find the titles you mentioned...

Mega-Int Max isn’t too bad. Give him Strategic and Tactical Prodigy and you’re pretty much there. There’s already going to be a number of Mega-Int novas around, Max just got there first.

Even the Time Traveling one isn’t too bad… after all the NPC that the PCs have to deal with is “current” Max and not “future” Max. You could even have him “find” a book from the future detailing what’s going to happen.

OMG!!! THAT'S IT!!!! ::biggrin ::biggrin ::biggrin

Thank you! Alex, you just gave me the perfect solution! Mercer erupts and has a form of time manipulation that allows him to send inanimate objects into the past. 50 years or so into the future he writes a message to himself and kickstarts everything. With a few limitations to avoid paradoxes and time-loops this will work fine!

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this idea! Sometimes its just in front of you and you cant see it ::laugh

This also means I get a new villain to play around with, weeeee!

[Alex Green]

Alex, dude. Where can I find these stories? I checked the Eon fiction section and i cannot find the titles you mentioned...

It's called "A Breed Apart" and is our detailed fan fiction dealing with nova reproduction. It covers the sterility stuff and a great deal of other need to know complications. What happened was we were writting up the Mega-Physical stuff and the "little" section grew and grew and eventually matured into it's own book. It's freshly released... um... yesterday or so I guess. I don't think anyone will mind my reposting the link.

A Breed Apart

Kinslayer is on page 74 and Rebel Yell is on page 71.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this idea! Sometimes its just in front of you and you cant see it ::laugh

You're welcome.

[BlueNinja]

Correction: Orzaiz, Fong, Mathematician. . . and Delorimier.

The Apostle without either Scripture or Mal would be. . . interesting. My guess is, he sets himself up as a focus for worship sooner than before, using a religious version of whatever theories the four come up with.

I did not realize that Apostle was part of the Teragen before Divis came along.

I think the other major factions probably would form, they just wouldn't ally with the Teragen. You'd still have charismatic supremacists, for example. Limits their influence, yes, but it also means they are more free to take their own path.

That can be good and bad depending. Someone like Tarik ibn-Mahmoud is still going to come along, and still going to try and run the Middle East, but without having to keep up the appearance of being a fine, upstanding nova ... and that doesn't even take into account Narcosis and the soma trade.

The Harvesters are a special case, IMO. Altaz Zia joined the Teragen because of what his own studies turned up. Without the Null Manifesto as a public example, he'd have to come up with stuff on his own. . . but he's probably smart enough to do so. No inventing Chrysalis from scratch, but if anybody is likely to discover it eventually independently, he is.

Zia's not one of the Terats I've looked at in depth. Could he have started something akin to the Harvesters on his own, trying to see if there was a way to reverse taint?

Sorry BlueNinja I missed the joke. What is this law exacty? ::huh (yeah, I know its lame to explain jokes but bear with me...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

Basically, the first person to bring Nazis into the argument loses, regardless of their position.

[Alex Green]

Basically, the first person to bring Nazis into the argument loses, regardless of their position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

"...Godwin's Law does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda or other mainstays of the Nazi regime. Instead, it applies to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations to Hitler or Nazis."

So I'm not sure. Sterilization => Genocide; but PU <> Nazis.

[BlueNinja]

So I'm not sure. Sterilization => Genocide; but PU <> Nazis.

I'm more familiar with the part listed in the Corrolary part; the first person to mention Nazis and/or Hitler loses the argument by default. Which was why I mentioned it in the first place. ::biggrin

[SkyLion]

I did not realize that Apostle was part of the Teragen before Divis came along.

,,

He was initially a sycophant to Fong before she botched her Chrysalis. He then became dissillusioned with her, sold her out, and sucked up to Mal...

,,,,

Mercer erupts and has a form of time manipulation that allows him to send inanimate objects into the past.

,,

Cue BIll and Ted Shennanigans..."Remember to send my self a gun...oh! Thank you future self!" ::laugh

[BlueNinja]

He was initially a sycophant to Fong before she botched her Chrysalis. He then became dissillusioned with her, sold her out, and sucked up to Mal...

Ah, ok. He does that "disillusioned" thing with everyone, doesn't he?,,

Cue BIll and Ted Shennanigans..."Remember to send my self a gun...oh! Thank you future self!" ::laugh

You know that phone booth is really a TARDIS. ::tongue