Aberrant RPG - Aberrant Setting questions

NFVD · January 27, 2007

Hello all. New guy in the forums.

BTW this is one the best gaming forums I have ever seen, I just spent hours reading the posts

I just acquired the Aberrant rulebook and a couple of supplements. I very excited about the game and plan to run a campaign (haven’t GMed in over a year but this setting rocks!).

As with all WW games Aberrant has a metaplot and tie-ins with other games. Not having access to Adventure! or Trinity I am limited to the information I can find online. I have a lot of questions about the setting; specifically I'm trying to decide weather to include information from both games as canon for Aberrant. It is my understanding that if you choose to "simply ignore" Adventure! and the Aeon society's past and/or Trinity's Psion Era future you will have to radically change your Aberrant setting or at least come up with some very good excuses. I might elaborate this statement in a future post but first I need to learn more.

I have a few (well...many) questions about the nature of both game's characters and settings. If someone could clarify this for me I would be grateful. Also considering my ignorance some of these questions may sound totally daft, please bare with me.

The Juice

Ok, exactly what is the difference between Quantum Energy/Basic Universal Forces and Psi/Sub-Quantum/Neotic energies?

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Psions

a) Why don’t Psions and Psyads exhibit any internal manifestation of they control of psionic/subquantum energies when the Novas effectively need a new "organ" to control quantum? (this becomes more relevant because I assume control over sub-quantum is harder than control over quantum, the same way controlling chemical reactions in lab is much easier than atomic ones)

Why does quantum "taint" its users while subquantum has no effect, especially considering my assumption about the nature on energies in question A.

c) Why don’t psions/psyads "bleed" subquantum? Why does subquantum energy not affect its surroundings as quantum does? Again check assumption A.

j) Why don’t Psions/Psyads exude a feeling of "uneasiness" and get social penalties dealing with baselines, as they gain Psi and become more and more meta-human (Nova-like?) ?

(There was a thread in the forums about Nova social penalties and I believe it was generally agreed that the penalties derive from the Nova's control of "unearthly" energies. It just does not feel right to baselines. So I would assume *any* creature which is basically a living battery of "cosmic power" would freak baselines)

Adventure!

a) What was the Telluric Engine exactly? How for what purpose was it built? What went wrong when it was activated?

What is Telluric energy? Quantum? Sub-Quantum? Something else? How does it relate to Quantum and Psionic energies?

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c) What was the real original purpose of Aeon Society when Mercer formed it? What was Mercer ultimate goal?

d) If Mesmerists are Proto-Psions/Psyads and Stalwarts are Proto-Novas who are the "upgraded version" of Darings ?

Aberrant

a) What was the ultimate goal of Aeon Society during the Nova age? Why did the sterilisation program start? Did Max Mercer plan, order or condone their activities during the era?

(I have not read Project Utopia yet, I am assuming Aeon is the ultimate driving force behind Utopia and Proteus)

How did the Aeon Society survive the Aberrant War? All other factions (Project Utopia, Directive, etc) are gone by Trinity's time. I would assume Aeon would be one of the Novas prime targets in the war.

c) How did Project Proteus manage to destroy over 99% of Nova-made technology with their S&D division during the war if Utopia didn’t survive it? Or does Proteus survive its mother organisation’s demise?

d) Has Quantum-Tech (i.e. devices only usable by Novas in the same vein as BioTech for Psions) ever been developed is the 60+ years that the Nova Age lasts?

Trinity

a) Where are all the Psyads? Psions are "potentials" who get dunked in a tank. They can in theory all become Psyads. Why don’t they, or at least why not in greater numbers?

Why don’t Novas erupt daily in the Psion Age if areas the sizes of countries are tainted with quantum and lots of potentials are running around?

(A potential has the genetic "tumbler" that can turn either way thus causing Eruption or Ascendancy. The number of potentials on Earth is certainly vast otherwise the Psi Orders could not exist for lack of members)

d) Where is/was Mercer when the game line was discontinued? Is he active at all in the Psion Age? If so what are is plans, goals and modus operandi?

Well, that is all for now.

BlueNinja · January 27, 2007

Ok, exactly what is the difference between Quantum Energy/Basic Universal Forces and Psi/Sub-Quantum/Neotic energies?

The interaction between the two is called Telluric Energy, and that's what is thought to power all of the Inspired types in Adventure!. Quantum energy is supposed to be manipulation of gravity, electromagnetics, and nuclear forces (nuclear as in between the components of atoms, not as in the bombs). Sub-quantum is whatever smaller forces make up those.,,

a) Why don’t Psions and Psyads exhibit any internal manifestation of they control of psionic/subquantum energies when the Novas effectively need a new "organ" to control quantum? (this becomes more relevant because I assume control over sub-quantum is harder than control over quantum, the same way controlling chemical reactions in lab is much easier than atomic ones)

On the contrary, sub-quantum forces seem to be easier to control, as psiads can naturally occur and go almost completely unnoticed, but novas are almost always instantly noticable (and highly disruptive when they erupt).

Why does quantum "taint" its users while subquantum has no effect, especially considering my assumption about the nature on energies in question A.

Probably because sub-quantum forces are easier to manipulate, and seem to occur more often throughout the universe. In Trinity, three out of the five alien races humanity comes across can naturally use psionics (the Doyen, Chromatics, and Qin), and one of them steals (the Coalition). Only one race seems to use quantum abilities (the race with the teleporter, who seem to be dead and gone before humanity finds their relics).

j) Why don’t Psions/Psyads exude a feeling of "uneasiness" and get social penalties dealing with baselines, as they gain Psi and become more and more meta-human (Nova-like?) ?
(There was a thread in the forums about Nova social penalties and I believe it was generally agreed that the penalties derive from the Nova's control of "unearthly" energies. It just does not feel right to baselines. So I would assume *any* creature which is basically a living battery of "cosmic power" would freak baselines)

I'd say because sub-quantum forces don't give off the same vibe of different-ness that quantum forces do. See, for OOC reason, it's important to keep psions as much like regular humanity as possible - they are, after all, the saviors of humanity against this twisted mutant offshoot they call novas/aberrants.

a) What was the Telluric Engine exactly? How for what purpose was it built? What went wrong when it was activated?

The proper name for it was the Hammersmith Engine, and it was an attempt to harvest Telluric Energy (the interplay of quantum and sub-quantum in naturally occuring forms) to generate quick and cheap electricity without needing to burn coal. It was sabotaged by one of Hammersmith's servants, and exploded during the first test in front of several dozen witnesses (some of whom died, the rest became Inspired).

c) What was the real original purpose of Aeon Society when Mercer formed it? What was Mercer ultimate goal?

The stated purpose in Adventure! is for the Aeon Society to be a gathering of the best of humanity, dedicated to uncovering mysteries and providing the information to anyone who asked. In Adventure!, the Chicago branch headquarters of the Aeon Society has several filing rooms with all of the diary entries and reports on all the things the Aeon members due, that is open to anyone who walks in the front door and asks. Whether or not this was Mercer's ultimate goal, well, that's anyone's guess.

d) If Mesmerists are Proto-Psions/Psyads and Stalwarts are Proto-Novas who are the "upgraded version" of Darings ?

The A! opinion of Daredevils is that they're just extraordinarily lucky regular humans. Therefore, there is no upgraded version of them.

How did the Aeon Society survive the Aberrant War? All other factions (Project Utopia, Directive, etc) are gone by Trinity's time. I would assume Aeon would be one of the Novas prime targets in the war.

Most people don't know that the Aeon Society ran Project Utopia. The Aeon Society, in the early 21st century, is basically that of an exclusive philanthropic organization who put up some of the funding for PU. Also, they stay very well hidden, and had Project Proteus to call upon should anyone get too close to the truth.

c) How did Project Proteus manage to destroy over 99% of Nova-made technology with their S&D division during the war if Utopia didn’t survive it? Or does Proteus survive its mother organisation’s demise?

Utopia's personnel and resources were just moved into other organizations. Also, I think a great deal less was destroyed ... just carefully hidden away to be "discovered" by talented baselines several years/decades later when people had forgotten it existed before.

a) Where are all the Psyads? Psions are "potentials" who get dunked in a tank. They can in theory all become Psyads. Why don’t they, or at least why not in greater numbers?

It's not an easy thing to start manipulating the forces of the universe. Psiads exist, but most of the time the potentials are discovered by the orders and dunked before they would start naturally demonstrating their powers.

Why don’t Novas erupt daily in the Psion Age if areas the sizes of countries are tainted with quantum and lots of potentials are running around?

Two reasons: People avoid the tainted areas like the plague (because, really, that's their effect on 99% of humanity). And because the psion orders are always on the lookout for latents, and dragging them off to be dunked, so fewer potentials exist to erupt. The numbers that the book gives is that in 2015, there are roughly one nova per million baselines; but in 2120, there is one psion per hundred-thousand baselines, meaning ten times as many psions. Psionic latency is obviously slightly higher than nova latency, even if they both depend on the same genetic marker.

SkyLion · January 27, 2007

Wow. We sure are getting quality new members these days! ::happy

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I am sure that Alex Green and/or others will continue to answer your questions point by point, Edsan.

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I would love to, but semi-unfortunately am going in to work today after all (Money vs. R&R, the age old dillema...)

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In the meantimt I will just give you a big welcome to the forums!

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::welcome ::welcome ::welcome :transformer: :mach4b: :captainamerica: :batlogo: ::pimpin ::stormtrooper ::ninja :jumping40: :jumping40:

phoenix · January 27, 2007

Hey, welcome to the forums. ::cool

If Mesmerists are Proto-Psions/Psyads and Stalwarts are Proto-Novas who are the "upgraded version" of Darings ?

Keep in mind that Psions and Novas aren't really that different from Mesmerists and Stalwarts; they probably aren't different in any fundamental way. Psions are made to be different - more powerful, less versatile - than naturally occuring psi users, or "psiads," because that's the way the Prometheus tanks are designed (for a very specific reason, but I don't want to get into spoiler territory in this post). And novas are living in an environment with more and more "background quantum" to draw on, possibly making them exponentially more powerful.

Since Daredevils are just really lucky, talented and skilled, extraordinary people, there's no "energy" fueling them to be enhanced or twisted - they don't have an "upgraded version."

j) Why don’t Psions/Psyads exude a feeling of "uneasiness" and get social penalties dealing with baselines, as they gain Psi and become more and more meta-human (Nova-like?) ?

Again, remember that Novas are getting much more power much faster than psions are. That's bound to affect you mentally, and also, the node itself can exert some pressure of its own on the human mind, while psi users don't need a new organ.

How did the Aeon Society survive the Aberrant War? All other factions (Project Utopia, Directive, etc) are gone by Trinity's time. I would assume Aeon would be one of the Novas prime targets in the war.

I'm not sure about the specifics, but be sure that as long as Max Mercer exists (which, in a sense, he always has and always will), there will always be an Aeon Society. It's his organization, and given his resource and charisma, he could doubtless revive it with comparable resources in any society or location.

metaphysician · January 28, 2007

Re: daredevils, whether there is a higher end version depends on who you ask or where you like. The Nihonjin Superiors ( covered in Asia Ascendant ) are to daredevils what psions are to mesmerists: artificial equivalents with more power but narrower flexibility. This implies the existence of a "full" version equivalent to novas or psiads.

Depending on who you ask, this might be Maxwell Mercer, with the 'luck' abilities of daredevils being related to manipulating progression of events, and thus being ultimately temporal in nature.

Alex Green · January 28, 2007

Hello all. New guy in the forums.

Welcome!!! Hail and well met.

Ok, exactly what is the difference between Quantum Energy/Basic Universal Forces and Psi/Sub-Quantum/Neotic energies?

Largely unclear without technobable. They fight each other, they are not opposite. I.e. heat and cold are different levels of the same thing, Q and Psi aren’t like that. Having said that, their differences are so extreme they can appear to be opposite. In effect, Abbies warp reality unnaturally and against nature, while Psions do not.

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RE: Psions vs Aberrants

Aberrants are MUCH stronger, both potentially and practically. They are also less stable. Basically warping reality isn’t a very sane thing to so. Psions on the other hand work with reality. They are more in tune with nature and less domineering.

Taint is a measure of how unnatural (i.e. how “wrong”) a nova is. However the core book says that increasing Quantum (not Taint) makes the nova more other-than-human.

Psions simply never lose their humanity (part of that being “in tune” with things).

And yes, over and above the problems with having large amounts of Quantum or Taint, Novas are also blessed with brain damage if their node is large enough. What can I say, life sucks sometimes.

a) Why don’t Psions and Psyads exhibit any internal manifestation of they control of psionic/subquantum energies when the Novas effectively need a new "organ" to control quantum?

Oh, they probably do, it’s just more subtle than a node and no one knows what to look for. An extra chemical in the nerves, an extra connection… but whatever it is it doesn’t cause brain damage and it’s really easy to miss.

c) Why don’t psions/psyads "bleed" subquantum? Why does subquantum energy not affect its surroundings as quantum does?

A big part of it is that as aberrants lose more and more control over their power (i.e. their taint goes up) they warp reality more and more badly. However a Psion who loses control over his power is only losing control over himself.

Adventure! a) What was the Telluric Engine exactly? How for what purpose was it built? What went wrong when it was activated?

Unclear since Hammersmith and everyone who knew died at the time. I think it was supposed to supply unlimited energy, but what exactly Hammersmith thought he was doing was lost when the machine blew up.

What is Telluric energy?

It’s a combination of both Quantum and Sub-Quantum. Think of how in a tornado the wind can blow in every direction at once. And yes, this isn’t a good thing.

c) What was the real original purpose of Aeon Society when Mercer formed it? What was Mercer ultimate goal?

The first thing to realize is that Max was probably inspired before he was exposed to the Hammersmith explosion (that’s IMHO but really the only way to explain how he was so exceptionally talented). When he was exposed however, he became a time traveler and temporal manipulator. Max isn’t a Psion or Nova (presumably he’s a Daredevil on steroids, just like a nova is an advanced stalwart… but he is unique). However Max can only temporally go to places of very high quantum. I.e. he can enter various ages but not jump forward only one day.

Aeon was formed to deal with superhumans and other (sub)quantum effects. I.e. get them to do good things, stop mad scientists from destroying the world, that sort of thing. It presumably was also formed to avoid the extinction of humanity in the various human vs. other conflicts that were going to happen.

a) What was the ultimate goal of Aeon Society during the Nova age?

By the nova age Max had largely lost control over the Aeon society since it’d been functioning for many decades without his input. Presumable they had the twin (and conflicting) goals of integrating novas into society in a productive manner and making sure that baseline humanity won the nova war in the 2050’s.

Why did the sterilization program start? Did Max Mercer plan, order or condone their activities during the era?

The program started within the first year or two of the nova age and from everything I’ve seen Max would never have sanctioned it.

How did the Aeon Society survive the Aberrant War?

Unknown, but presumable just knowing the war was coming would help a lot.

All other factions (Project Utopia, Directive, etc) are gone by Trinity's time.

Without Novas many of the factions don’t really exist. Utopia was the Aeon project to integrate novas into society, no novas, no Utopia. Even the Directive doesn’t have a reason to exist since abbies are shot on sight.

I would assume Aeon would be one of the Novas prime targets in the war.

No, Aeon mostly stayed in the background and pulled strings. Also it’s an error to say “Nova’s prime targets”. Novas were on all sides of the war. Even the Directive had novas. After the war, everyone appears to have forgotten that and/or it’s been edited out of history, but by the Trinity era for many decades EVERY abby encountered was an evil insane monster.

c) How did Project Proteus manage to destroy over 99% of Nova-made technology with their S&D division during the war if Utopia didn’t survive it?

First of all, the purge of nova tech was very open and popular. Second of all, I don’t get the feeling that Utopia was outright destroyed. For example it would have been their tech police who lead the tech purge.

d) Has Quantum-Tech (i.e. devices only usable by Novas in the same vein as BioTech for Psions) ever been developed is the 60+ years that the Nova Age lasts?

Not really. The thing about Quantum-Tech is that it isn’t science, it’s the mechanization of nova powers. Thus every gadget is unstable (lasts a year or so) and doesn’t really “work” in a real sense. Obviously this is a general rule, there were actual nova advances in technology, but without novas understanding them was very difficult, especially after the purge destroyed everyone’s notes. The Peasants burned all the books, and/or the Library of Alexandra burned.

There are three possible exceptions to this. Eden has stable sane novas (a faction when there after they left the planet). The Colony has (insane) novas who might still be making tech (I doubt it but it’s possible). And Japan never really got rid of it’s novas.

a) Where are all the Psyads? Psions are "potentials" who get dunked in a tank. They can in theory all become Psyads. Why don’t they, or at least why not in greater numbers?

Several problems, first of all, psiads *never* existed in great numbers. Actually inspired in general never existed in great numbers. Before the 20th century novas showed up maybe 1 or 2 per century. The psions have the tanks, novas have the increase in Quantum that Divis Mal did, Psiads have nothing.

Further, all of these groups are drawing from the same pool. If you are dunking everyone who might become a Psiad, not many will become Psiads. If you avoid being dunked, then chances are good in Trinity that you either don’t change at all or if you do you’ll become a tentacled monster.

And finally, the numbers simply don’t make sense. The tanks have produced 50k or so psions for the planet. One or two psiads are easy to lose in that kind of background, and given that non-dunked inspired are normally shot on sight, they aren’t going to want to be found.

Why don’t Novas erupt daily in the Psion Age if areas the sizes of countries are tainted with quantum and lots of potentials are running around?

They do. However they erupt tainted. Supposedly they erupt and go mad right then and there. But let’s assume that’s racist crap for a moment.

Problems with erupting on the Earth in the Trinity Era:

1) High levels of taint tend to mean you erupt tainted.

2) People erupt with powers that they think they’ll get. Trinity people think they’re going to go mad so they do.

3) As novas are shot on sight, they immediately start to buy powers tainted so they have a better chance of surviving.

4) The people who could erupt naturally, i.e. the ones with the right genetic stuff, already erupted. Thus the people who erupt now are the ones less able to do so.

NFVD · January 28, 2007

Thank you for all your timely answer guys

I just need a few clarifications:

This is starting to look like a Trinity-Continuum philosophical debate

PREMISE A

QUOTES (Nature of Energies)

"Quantum energy is supposed to be manipulation of gravity, electromagnetics, and nuclear forces (nuclear as in between the components of atoms, not as in the bombs). Sub-quantum is whatever smaller forces make up those."

Very well I think we have just agreed that Quantum is a manifestation of Sub-Quantum, this makes them essentially the same thing and makes Sub-Quantum a more primordial, and therefore harder to access/control form of energy.

PREMISE B

QUOTES (Nature of Energies)

"Ok, exactly what is the difference between Quantum Energy/Basic Universal Forces and Psi/Sub-Quantum/Neotic energies?

The interaction between the two is called Telluric Energy, and that's what is thought to power all of the Inspired types in Adventure!."

Ok, so and Inpired controls/wields Quantum AND Neotic, even though their level of power manifestation seems weaker than Novas and Psions.

1)

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QUOTES (The Missing Psion Node)

"a) Why don’t Psions and Psyads exhibit any internal manifestation of they control of psionic/subquantum energies when the Novas effectively need a new "organ" to control quantum? (this becomes more relevant because I assume control over sub-quantum is harder than control over quantum, the same way controlling chemical reactions in lab is much easier than atomic ones)"

"On the contrary, sub-quantum forces seem to be easier to control, as psyads can naturally occur and go almost completely unnoticed, but novas are almost always instantly noticeable (and highly disruptive when they erupt)."

"Oh, they probably do, it’s just more subtle than a node and no one knows what to look for. An extra chemical in the nerves, an extra connection… but whatever it is it doesn’t cause brain damage and it’s really easy to miss."

" Why does quantum "taint" its users while subquantum has no effect?"

"Probably because sub-quantum forces are easier to manipulate, and seem to occur more often throughout the universe. In Trinity, three out of the five alien races humanity comes across can naturally use psionics (the Doyen, Chromatics, and Qin), and one of them steals (the Coalition). Only one race seems to use quantum abilities (the race with the teleporter, who seem to be dead and gone before humanity finds their relics)."

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I’m sorry but this does not make any sense. Ok I know "it's just the way it is" but in my view control over a layer of forces that is fundamentally nearer the basic fabric of the universe is more powerful and difficult than control over energies nearer to our own level of existence/perception. Again: it’s easier to control chemical reactions than atomic ones. See PREMISE A.

The "power level" and diversity of the manifestations of control over said energies is a different thing. While your average Psion is "weaker" and has a more limited power scope (a limitation custom-built into those wonderful alien tanks) than your average Nova; I'm pretty sure most Novas would be hard pressed to exhibit the level of control a Psi Order Proxy manifests over his/her chosen field.

The Psionic Aliens in Trinity look like a Deux ex Machina. Hey, humanity has just developed Psionics, cool! guess what? Other sentients in the galaxy are also Psionic. Really?! Cool!! Hey and check this out, one of them hates Quantum-users with a passion!!! No sh*t?! Oh man that's just SO COOL!!!!

Ahem...sorry for my misguided attempts in humour.

3 (or 4) psionic races prove nothing. The Doyen might have exterminated 30 or 40 naturally occurring Quantum-using races so far, who knows?. Also numbers and occurrence don't make something "natural". If that is so then the Novas are more natural than Psions because they came first and erupt on their own, or at least without having to use alien technology.

Finally some Psion powers are damn more powerful than anything Novas have. The Psion Upeo Wa Macho teleporters can do feats of teleportation unheard of in the Nova Age (they are used for space exploration for goodness sake). Yet in the Nova Age a flimsy Nova than can only teleport to the next room has to have a pseudo-brain tumour to be able to accomplish it.

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Again I ask, where is the Psion Node or its equivalent?

*** continued bwloe due to lack of space ***

*** continued from above ***

This also brings up two new questions:

1.1) If as someone mentioned, the level of power that Novas command/manifest is also/the cause of Taint, how come the Psion Proxies don’t have taint? They ARE the most powerful Psion in their field. The strongest manifestation of Psionic power in humanity EVER. Again, see PREMISE A and the Upeo Wa Macho example.

1.2) How come Mercer does have taint? I just realised this and it’s a 1,000,000 USD question. Consider PREMISE B and the fact that Mercer's power is undeniable one of the most powerful in the universe. Neither Novas, Psions or for that matter any alien race has any level of control over the space-time continuum he does. Also consider that the link of his power with Quantum since he can travel through time easier (only?) to eras where a considerable amount of Quantum is floating about (i.e. 1998, Aberrant War, Trinity Era).

He has also been using is power like crazy, effectively becoming one of the motor forces of humanity's fate between 1920's and the early 2100's.

2)

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QUOTES (Psions and uneasiness)

"I'd say because sub-quantum forces don't give off the same vibe of different-ness that quantum forces do. See, for OOC reason, it's important to keep Psions as much like regular humanity as possible - they are, after all, the saviours of humanity against this twisted mutant offshoot they call novas/aberrants."

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Ha-ha! Got ya! OOC rears its ugly head against consistency.

(sorry humour again)

Ok then tell me why it is so. Why does not sub-quantum give any vibe at all? See PREMISE A. Just saying "it's the way it is" doesn't cut it. We need reasons. We already know the causes and effects, what we need to know are "why" and "how"?

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QUOTES (Psions and Taint)

"Again, remember that Novas are getting much more power much faster than Psions are. That's bound to affect you mentally, and also, the node itself can exert some pressure of its own on the human mind, while Psi users don't need a new organ."

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True is a way but I disagree about the amount of difference. Getting dunked into a tank and coming out controlling the forces of the universe seems pretty fast Ubering to me. Also in the Nova Age while gods where walking around it did take them 10 years or more to get to those power levels. For the missing Psion Node see 1).

3)

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QUOTES (Aeon Society surviving the Aberrant Wars)

"Most people don't know that the Aeon Society ran Project Utopia. The Aeon Society, in the early 21st century, is basically that of an exclusive philanthropic organization who put up some of the funding for PU. Also, they stay very well hidden, and had Project Proteus to call upon should anyone get too close to the truth."

"I'm not sure about the specifics, but be sure that as long as Max Mercer exists (which, in a sense, he always has and always will), there will always be an Aeon Society. It's his organization, and given his resource and charisma, he could doubtless revive it with comparable resources in any society or location."

"By the nova age Max had largely lost control over the Aeon society since it’d been functioning for many decades without his input. Presumable they had the twin (and conflicting) goals of integrating novas into society in a productive manner and making sure that baseline humanity won the nova war in the 2050’s."

"No, Aeon mostly stayed in the background and pulled strings. Also it’s an error to say “Nova’s prime targets”. Novas were on all sides of the war. Even the Directive had novas. After the war, everyone appears to have forgotten that and/or it’s been edited out of history, but by the Trinity era for many decades EVERY abby encountered was an evil insane monster."

"Unknown, but presumable just knowing the war was coming would help a lot."

*** continued below due to lack of space ***

*** Continued from above ***

Some of these statements contradict themselves. So Mercer is ubiquitous and can bring Aeon out of the ashes, however he totally loses control of the society at the most vulnerable time in the timeline when meta-humans that actually NEED Aeon and all it stands for are betrayed by the very organisations that spawn from it.

The "Aeon Society in the background" statement is false. Everyone in the Nova Age knows that they went to the UN after N-Day and proposed Utopia Project. In the rulebook there is even a scene where schoolchildren are taught about it.

I clearly remember that in the dialogues of Aberrant: Teragen they are planning on investigating the Aeon society and its one of their prime goals.

Aberrant: Project Utopia reveals that both Orziz and Corbin have in their possession a file from a Project Utopia turncoat which sheds light on the nature of Aeon, Utopia and Proteus.

Finally, did Aeon knew about the Aberrant Wars? Big deal, so did the Mathematician and god knows how many others Nova mentalists, so did every nova with time-travelling powers that took a jaunt into the future (and there must have been at least one).

Even the directory knew a war would happen, out of they training in geo-politics they nearly practically predicted what was to come AND they where very, very suspicious of Utopia AND Aeon.

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Given all this I ask again: How did Aeon survive the Aberrant Wars?

(I guess I can guess the answers, OOC needs, Deux ex Machina and plot over consistency to satisfy Trinity)

Don't take my sarcasm wrong fellow forumites. I am going to run Aberrant, and the more I read about it the more I like it. My problem is the more I learn about the Trinity Continuum the less I can stomach it. I admit I am a sucker for consistency but that is the least us role-players can expect. I really do not care about !Adventure or Trinity, but more and more their implications on and for Aberrant are disappointing me.

Of course you could just ignore all that data and play Aberrant for Abberant's sake. That however is much easier said than done, for varied reasons.

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But that's an issue for another, later post. For now let us stick to your answers and opinions to my nagging questions

Alex Green · January 28, 2007

Ok, so and Inspired controls/wields Quantum AND Neotic, even though their level of power manifestation seems weaker than Novas and Psions.

Yes, and that second part shouldn’t be a surprise. Specialists are stronger within their specialty, and they don’t need to worry about Quantum and Neotic energies fighting each other. Think of novas as big, steroid abusing weight lifters. They have lots of power, lots of focus, and lots of side effects.

…it’s easier to control chemical reactions than atomic ones…

Ignoring that this is apples and oranges…

Actually no, it isn’t. Rust is still a significant problem in society because it’s easy to make happen and hard to prevent. Atomic reactions are mostly not a problem because they are so difficult to set up and easy to stop.

The "power level" and diversity of the manifestations of control over said energies is a different thing. While your average Psion is "weaker" and has a more limited power scope (a limitation custom-built into those wonderful alien tanks) than your average Nova…

Even without the tanks, psiads are weaker and less powerful. They are limited to two dots of a power, can’t take anything that effects, causes, or must involve taint (which means all powers with a Q-min of 5+).

I'm pretty sure most Novas would be hard pressed to exhibit the level of control a Psi Order Proxy manifests over his/her chosen field.

With the points and power the Proxies are built at, you are talking about the equiv of a well built Q6+ nova.

Control is a good thing. But all that fine muscle and small scale control (i.e. being a better artist) isn’t going to stop a thug (i.e. that body builder on steroids) from beating him up.

Finally some Psion powers are damn more powerful than anything Novas have. The Psion Upeo Wa Macho teleporters can do feats of teleportation unheard of in the Nova Age (they are used for space exploration for goodness sake). Yet in the Nova Age a flimsy Nova than can only teleport to the next room has to have a pseudo-brain tumour to be able to accomplish it.

Yep, novas are mostly creatures of brute force and teleportation is a power that works much better with the Psion approach.

However, one winning comparison doesn’t win a war, and as far as I can tell, the psions are largely losing. Further, put a knife into that psion and he’s going to die.

Again I ask, where is the Psion Node or its equivalent?

Unknown, or maybe just unrevealed.

1.1) If as someone mentioned, the level of power that Novas command/manifest is also/the cause of Taint, how come the Psion Proxies don’t have taint? They ARE the most powerful Psion in their field. The strongest manifestation of Psionic power in humanity EVER. Again, see PREMISE A and the Upeo Wa Macho example.

Supposedly because psions simply don’t get tainted… however…

When you start looking at them closely it does appear that their humanity has paid a price for their power.

Herzog is constantly lost in time. It’s his job to warn the others about future threats, but although he remembers that warning he’s not sure if he’s remembering a future or past event.

The telepath has lost her body.

The shapeshifter seems pretty monstrous to me… both in his plans and his relationships.

The general is burned out.

The electro-kinetic is having problems with his wife simply because he’s a psion.

The doctor has multiple management issues, both with him micromanaging his people and with them doing unethical things with their powers.

And none of them trust the Teleporter, to the point where they tried to take over his movement.

If they were novas, I’d say they were having issues with taint.

1.2) How come Mercer does have taint? I just realised this and it’s a 1,000,000 USD question. Consider PREMISE B and the fact that Mercer's power is undeniable one of the most powerful in the universe.

Unclear. Mercer doesn’t actually *have* to be at the upper end of the power scale. He travels through time from one era to another, he has some megas, probably luck and temporal manip, but that’s all we’ve seen as power goes.

Some of these statements contradict themselves. So Mercer is ubiquitous and can bring Aeon out of the ashes, however he totally loses control of the society at the most vulnerable time in the timeline when meta-humans that actually NEED Aeon and all it stands for are betrayed by the very organisations that spawn from it.

Not “ubiquitous”, he can just travel from era to era. So there’s a massive dead zone where he can’t travel between roughly 1940 and 1998. That’s 6 decades. During that time Aeon became huge (nudge nudge wink wink almost as though they had historical knowledge). And then Max came back… and IMHO showed that while he’s hell on wheels for managing a small company, managing a very large set of multiple corporations wasn’t even close to his strong point (very different skill sets).

The "Aeon Society in the background" statement is false. Everyone in the Nova Age knows that they went to the UN after N-Day and proposed Utopia Project. In the rulebook there is even a scene where schoolchildren are taught about it.

Sure, but so what? The organization that actually has the novas is PU. It was Aeon’s idea, but PU was the group that cured cancer (etc).

I clearly remember that in the dialogues of Aberrant: Teragen they are planning on investigating the Aeon society and its one of their prime goals.

“Prime goals”? Somehow I think not, considering what else they have on their plate.

Finally, did Aeon knew about the Aberrant Wars? Big deal, so did the Mathematician and god knows how many others Nova mentalists, so did every nova with time-traveling powers that took a jaunt into the future (and there must have been at least one).

Time-travel is a Q8 abby power. Precognition is vague. Max gets a first hand look and can interact with things, like taking home a book detailing the stock market.

Given all this I ask again: How did Aeon survive the Aberrant Wars?

Presumably it had something to do with 100 years of prep, unlimited money, unnoticed super humans (DDs and Psiads), and Max. And nothing says they had to come through it unmarked, but if you are Geryon and making a killing run, who do you throw down on, Max’s butler or T2M?

phoenix · January 28, 2007

Ok, so and Inpired controls/wields Quantum AND Neotic, even though their level of power manifestation seems weaker than Novas and Psions.

One clarification: the Inspired wield either quantum or sub-quantum/noetic energy or extraordinary luck and skill, not all.

The Psionic Aliens in Trinity look like a Deux ex Machina. Hey, humanity has just developed Psionics, cool! guess what? Other sentients in the galaxy are also Psionic. Really?! Cool!! Hey and check this out, one of them hates Quantum-users with a passion!!! No sh*t?! Oh man that's just SO COOL!!!!

Good point, but then it's not like the Doyen are exactly our allies themselves - it's more a marriage of convenience, and I can certainly see a conflict building on the horizon.

True is a way but I disagree about the amount of difference. Getting dunked into a tank and coming out controlling the forces of the universe seems pretty fast Ubering to me. Also in the Nova Age while gods where walking around it did take them 10 years or more to get to those power levels. For the missing Psion Node see 1).

There is no comparison at all - a nova can tear down a skyscraper with his powers the second he erupts. After coming out of a Prometheus tank, a psion still requires weeks of training to be able to access his aptitude in any effective way. A nova is way, way more powerful than a psion, and gets there faster.

1.1) If as someone mentioned, the level of power that Novas command/manifest is also/the cause of Taint, how come the Psion Proxies don’t have taint? They ARE the most powerful Psion in their field. The strongest manifestation of Psionic power in humanity EVER. Again, see PREMISE A and the Upeo Wa Macho example.

Because the proxies aren't novas. Novas get Taint, other powered beings don't. This doesn't mean that other powered beings can't be insane, or can't become gradually less human. But the term "taint" does not really apply. The same applies to Max Mercer. At the very least, those players don't have 25 cubic centimeters suddenly pushed out of place inside their skulls.

Ok then tell me why it is so. Why does not sub-quantum give any vibe at all? See PREMISE A. Just saying "it's the way it is" doesn't cut it. We need reasons. We already know the causes and effects, what we need to know are "why" and "how"?

Sub-quantum is a little easier to control & wield, so you don't really have to sacrifice humanity and sanity to use it. If you really need a "node" for psionics, I would picture the psi particles being wielded, shunted and emitted from the entire nervous system. Think of psi users as gunslingers, while novas are gigantic tanks. The latter is more powerful, but the former is capable of more subtlety and delicate application of skill.

I'm afraid that eventually, you will have to settle for something like "because that's the way it is," if only because this is, after all, fake science.

Blue Thunder · January 28, 2007

The reason novas have Taint is because they have such great power, and that's because of the Galatea wave. There were low-powered novas in the Adventure era, and they never gained Taint. But the specific wave that set off the Galatea explosion was greatly focused on Quantum, and I guess humanity wasn't quite (biologically) ready to wield the insane amount of power it started wielding, so novas racked up Taint. Remember, they go from "mere human" to "insane power" in an instant, and the continued use of thier powers affects them. There are novas in Trinity-era that channel quantum very well though, the Edenite novas, but they are very few in number, and pretty mysterious.

Psions do have a lot of drawbacks, too.

1 - The suffer psionic backlash. This happens when something powerful occurs in the sub-quantum medium. Like the deaths of a lot of people all at once, or a jump-ship launching nearby. When the Esperanza crashed into France, some psions were knocked out for weeks because of all the deaths. And the more powerful of a psion you are, the more it affects you. On a personal scale, you can suffer a mild backlash when someone important to you dies.

2 - They suffer psionic dysfunction. This happens when a psion trains too much in one Mode, but neglects others. His behavior becomes quite changed, and social interactions become dofficult. He has to seek noetic training and therapy to overcome it.

3 - They're affected by Taint energies. Just being around a nova/Aberrant with high Taint can negatively affect a psion's powers. They'll gain difficulty modifiers to thier actions, and thier powers will tend to fail or be ineffective.

There are other things as well...

On Quantum and Sub-Quantum:

Sub-Quantum forces were not discovered until after psions were around. The sub-quantum particles (also called psions) have always existed, humanity has just never known until psi-users were around to reveal it, kind of like how no one knew microscopic life existed until they had microscopes to see it.

The Psionic Aliens in Trinity look like a Deux ex Machina. Hey, humanity has just developed Psionics, cool! guess what? Other sentients in the galaxy are also Psionic. Really?! Cool!! Hey and check this out, one of them hates Quantum-users with a passion!!! No sh*t?! Oh man that's just SO COOL!!!!

You have it backwards my friend. The Doyen hate Quantum because they are beings of psi energy, without solid bodies. They created psions (yes, they are responsible for psions appearing, they made the Proxies and gave them the means to make psions) to help eliminate novas and Aberrants. The Doyen fear that novas will spread into the galaxy and become a threat to Doyen existence. And they are not humanity's friends. They imposed barriers in psions to specifically prevent them from gaining multiple Aptitudes and becoming a threat themselves. They don't like humans; they've just decided to use them against themselves so the Doyen don't have to directly interfere. The Doyen even killed the one psi order that was able to interact with Quantum and maybe even help Aberrants alleviate Taint conditions; the Doyen pulled the plug and manipulated the other orders into exterminating them.

SkyLion · January 28, 2007

Very well I think we have just agreed that Quantum is a manifestation of Sub-Quantum, this makes them essentially the same thing and makes Sub-Quantum a more primordial, and therefore harder to access/control form of energy.

,,

Its a matter of scale really. The difference in scale between sub-quantum and quantum is as vast as as the difference between quantum and molecular.

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Kinda like how we can predict things on our scale with newtownian physics pretty wel, but get into the quantum level and the rules change. In Trinity, "Psion" particles/waves are the "quintessential" (fifth element) glue of reality. In other words, the sub-quantum universe turns out to be the missing key in grand unification theory. Psions exist everywhere and everywhen, permeating the universe like an etheric (or telluric) fabric. It is tied much more into consciousness and the nature of the mind, which is why psions need alot of training and meditation to learn to use there powers. This is also why psiads are so rare...it takes quite a mind to get a grasp on it. IMHO Psions dont need nodes because its more like they are accessing that 80-90 percent of our mind/brain that goes otherwise unused. Its tapping into universal potential and the fabric of reality.

,,

That Novas develop nodes is harder to rationalize. Suffice to say that taint is also known as Quantum Backlash and most of us now concede that taint is what happens when a baseline born human develops too quickly and channels to much energy and it backlashs, twisting them and warping reality around them (ie aberrations). Psiads dont channel that much energy and psions are carefully constructed. Perhaps if a Psiad were to somehow become empowered too much too quickly we would see harmful noetic effects also. Blue Thunder also brought up the excellent points of Psionic Disfunction and Noetic Backlash.

,,

So Psions dont get taint because taint is a function of a grosser level of reality being messed with...like radiation and such. Psi is *smoother* more omnipresent and Psions are more "connected" with it...they dont need to develop new organs.

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Intereseting thought:

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Novas who erupted spontaneously prior to the the 20th century would have done so in a lower quantum field, thus limiting their quantum and node ratings to lower levels. Presumably these superior beings would also be more reproductively successful in their time, leading to second stage novas who would be able to channel quantum and node much more easily and perhaps develop nodes without the taint accumulation that effects baseline born humans whose node develops too fast (as a result of Divis Mal's engineering).

,,

Lastly, just to back up Phoenix, the term Inspired just refers to empowered beings of the Adventure! era. Its a catch all. Mesmerists are still psiads (or demi-psion as is the case with my mesmerist ::sly ) and Stalwarts are still Novas. Daredevils are open to debate, as the two line developers had two different visions. The original vision was that they were just lucky, daring normal humans and fits the flavor of Adventure! However another take is that, like Max, they sub-consciously affect the probability fields somehow in a way that is distinct and far more subtle than their flashier counterparts...

Centimane · January 28, 2007

One clarification: the Inspired wield either quantum or sub-quantum/noetic energy or extraordinary luck and skill, not all.

Well remember that there is something of a debate as to whether even that's true. All those lovely conflicting viewpoints between the Aeon developers combined with the sudden discontinuation of the game line means there are a few vague points and unanswered questions. One of them is this: there is one theory that says that Psions/Psyads use noetic energy, Novas use quantum, and Daredevils use neither and are just lucky or skilled humans. The other says that Psiads/Psyons use noetic, Novas use quantum, and Daredevils use both (but at very low levels). Unfortunately, because the lines have been discontinued and the developers refuse or are unable to comment on what the ultimate truth of that question is, we as players and STs must come to our own conclusions about such things.

As for the differences between the different "inspired" types, maybe this will help, maybe not. On pg.55 of the Aberrant Player's Guide there is a little blurb that's supposed to be an "Internal Aeon Society Missive" and it gives some indication of how Aeon is dealing with Inspired in the nova age. This missive lists 3 varieties of "human evolution": eximorphs (also known as novas), psychomorphs (also known as psiads), and paramorphs (with no other name given). If you look at these three words it can give you some insight into what the three different "species'" defining characteristics are.

Eximorph: technically the prefix "exi-" doesn't exist, but the both "ex-" and "exo-" do, and they both mean essentially the same thing (also "exomorph" is an actual word). So, for my part, I tend to assume that "eximorph" was a typo that didn't get noticed before the APG went to print (and if you have the APG then you know just how many typos got missed in that book, so it's really no surprise). "Exomorph" means either the external form or, more properly, "outside of form" which fits a nova quite nicely. Their powers mean that they are in no way limited to any "form", be that a physical body, a mode of transportation, or adherance to a particular law of physics. Novas are indeed "outside of form", and taint only serves to accentuate this.

Psychomorph: "Psycho-" means "of the mind" or simply "the mind" while "-morph" as you've probably already guessed means a particular form or shape. So Psychomorph could be tranlated as "formed by the mind", "a mental shape", or something similar. This also fits because Psyons/Psiads use "noetic" energy which, coincidentally enough, is generally considered a synonym for "mental" or "intellectual", so "noetic energy" is "mental or intellectual energy". Basically, IMPO, this is WW's indirect way of including a mystical or metaphysical phenomina into a "hard" science setting. Psions use "the power of their minds" to accomplish their superhuman feats and are, in essence, "true" psychics. Meaning that the reason they don't have "nodes" is because they don't need them, they simply use sheer force of will and the power of their own spirits (or "noetic templates"). So, just as a telephone psychic or streetside fortune teller don't have extra organs that grant them their psychic gifts, Psions and Psiads have no need of any extra organs either.

Paramorph: a "paramorph" is something that has the same constituent elements but takes different forms. "Para-" is the same prefix used in words like "parallel" and "paranormal" and is normally translated as "beyond". So a "paramorph" is something that is simply beyond form. This would be different from "exomorph" in that the first implies simply that it is "outside" of form (or that its power lies outside of its form, depending on your interpretation), while the second, "paramorph", implies that it is not only outside, but also completely separate and unrelated to form. Something of a mystery, no? At this point, without any real canon material to confirm or debunk any particular theories, we are left with speculation. Some people say that Daradevils are paramorphs, others say that Mercer himself is the only paramorph out there, and that he's entirely unique. Some people say that paramorphs can use both quantum and noetic energies, but at lower (and therefore harder to detect) levels, while others say that they use something else entirely. Some third type of energy or force that no one has yet discovered and so we simply refer to it as being "lucky" and "extremely skilled". Who knows what the real truth is?

So there you have it. The real differences between the three varieties of inspired.

SkyLion · January 28, 2007

How cool is that?!?! Cottus and i both made uber posts speaking on much the same topic and just happened to hit "post" at the exact same time...we'll Cottus was a few seconds later apparently, but within the same minute! You know what they say about Great Minds...

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GET OUT OF MY HEAD AND MY COMPUTER YOU CYBERKINETIC COTTUS-FREAK!!!

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j/k ::laugh

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::biggrin

metaphysician · January 29, 2007

To elaborate on the "quantum vs subquantum" difference. . . I think its a matter of deceptive terminology. When novas appeared in the late 20th century, science tried to explain what they were doing. And, they decided they manipulated quantum forces.

This is something of a cop-out explanation, because the quantum forces in question pretty much covers *everything* there is to manipulate. Its like saying the moon is in crescent because it changes phases. Its tautology.

A better way to describe novas is "individuals with powers derived from the fundamental warping and rewriting of reality." This is almost outright stated in the Plank Scaling writeup.

This being distinct from psychamorphs of any type ( who actually *do* channel and manipulate a specific energy, noetic energy ), and paramorphs, who apparently screw with probability.

NFVD · January 29, 2007

Its a matter of scale really. The difference in scale between sub-quantum and quantum is as vast as as the difference between quantum and molecular.

Finally a kind soul that agrees with my interpretation ::tongue

In other words, the sub-quantum universe turns out to be the missing key in grand unification theory. Psions exist everywhere and everywhen, permeating the universe like an etheric (or telluric) fabric.

Hogwash I say! That much control over over such primordial and inhuman forces without a node. Psions should turn into gaint pulsating cancers I say! ::biggrin

IMHO Psions dont need nodes because its more like they are accessing that 80-90 percent of our mind/brain that goes otherwise unused. Its tapping into universal potential and the fabric of reality.

Ok, this whole "unused brain potential" is an urban myth. It makes about as much sense as saying I only need my 20% efficiency from my vital organs to survive ::wacko . If a Psion only uses 1/10 of his brain while doing psionic stuff he would drop dead on the spot. End of story.

,,,,

That Novas develop nodes is harder to rationalize.

How true my friend, as are other 999 about the Aeon Continuum when taken as a whole. ::brick

Perhaps if a Psiad were to somehow to become empowered too much too quickly we would see harmful noetic effects also.

Like, say, those wonderful proxies being elevated into Psionic Godhood in a year or less? Since they do not manifest any visible physical aberrations I wouls say they must be completely ga-ga by now, at the very least. ::devil

So Psions dont get taint because taint is a function of a grosser level of reality being messed with...like radiation and such. Psi is *smoother* more omnipresent and Psions are more "connected" with it...they dont need to develop new organs.

So novas are like poluting high-octane gas-guzzling 4x4 and Psions are solar-powered tricicles with a corresponding power level manifestation?

Hmmm...I am tempted to be swayed. This however leads me into one conclusion: the Novas are human and the psions aren't. Consider that Novas were totally normal human beings that had a genetic factor which triggered what is effetively a brain tumor that allows then to use Quantum, sadly quantum causes Taint. A Nova supposedly dies if the Node is removed, but assuming it could be done without killing the patient you would end up with a normal human with a few scars on his brain.

Pyads however...their brains can do something a normal human brain can never do or hope to do. By definition they are not human! But even worse, the Prometheus project, as it turns them into Psions not only changes their DNA, it meshes it with alien genetic material thus denying any possible claim of humanity! ::blink

By jove! Even Trinity Era aberrants are more human than Psions...imagine the irony of it all. I wonder if anyone outside Aeon ever got a good look at Psion. The results would be...most intriguing.

,,,,

Novas who erupted spontaneously prior to the the 20th century would have done so in a lower quantum field, thus limiting their quantum and node ratings to lower levels. Presumably these superior beings would also be more reproductively successful in their time, leading to second stage novas who would be able to channel quantum and node much more easily and perhaps develop nodes without the taint accumulation that effects baseline born humans whose node develops too fast (as a result of Divis Mal's engineering).

Effectively proving that while forced "uplifting" may cause problems, Novas are the next natural stage of human evolution.

By all that is pure and good! A thousand thanks my good friend. This akin to a revelation! ::jaw

To elaborate on the "quantum vs subquantum" difference. . . I think its a matter of deceptive terminology. When novas appeared in the late 20th century, science tried to explain what they were doing. And, they decided they manipulated quantum forces.
This is something of a cop-out explanation, because the quantum forces in question pretty much covers *everything* there is to manipulate. Its like saying the moon is in crescent because it changes phases. Its tautology.
A better way to describe novas is "individuals with powers derived from the fundamental warping and rewriting of reality." This is almost outright stated in the Plank Scaling writeup.
This being distinct from psychamorphs of any type ( who actually *do* channel and manipulate a specific energy, noetic energy ), and paramorphs, who apparently screw with probability.

may I just add that Neotic energy has no basis whatsoever in reality and is portrayed as mostly harmless and benign for metaplot reasons?

Your "reality warp" approach is very interesting, however. But it fails to explain Taint and furthermore if accurate might effectively mean that Novas have the potential to "warp" their personal reality and get rid of taint altogether.

Hmmmm....

BlueNinja · January 29, 2007

Hmmm...I am tempted to be swayed. This however leads me into one conclusion: the Novas are human and the psions aren't. Consider that Novas were totally normal human beings that had a genetic factor which triggered what is effetively a brain tumor that allows then to use Quantum, sadly quantum causes Taint. A Nova supposedly dies if the Node is removed, but assuming it could be done without killing the patient you would end up with a normal human with a few scars on his brain.
Pyads however...their brains can do something a normal human brain can never do or hope to do. By definition they are not human! But even worse, the Prometheus project, as it turns them into Psions not only changes their DNA, it meshes it with alien genetic material thus denying any possible claim of humanity! ::blink
By jove! Even Trinity Era aberrants are more human than Psions...imagine the irony of it all. I wonder if anyone outside Aeon ever got a good look at Psion. The results would be...most intriguing.

Except, they have. THe Vitakinetic order, to be specific, does a great deal of work with non-psions. Most of their order are non-psion medical people, so genetic samples, brain scans, and any number of other medical information has been seen and analyzed in enough places that if psions were really not human, then the secret would have been out by now; there's simply too many places for information to leak from for Aeon to catch it all. Moreover, IIRC, the M-R node was discovered by two scientists who weren't originally working for Utopia, and they were hired after their discovery was made public.

I think Alex has been making a big deal out of the "occasionally novas erupted before N-Day" but I would think that there were as many, possibly more, psiads who naturally emerged prior to that than novas. The Trinity books infer that psions outnumber novas at least ten to one. Since psiads are much lower power, most of them would not have been noticed (or maybe burned at the stake! A great explanation for the start of wacky things like the Salem Witch trials! ::biggrin )

NFVD · January 29, 2007

Except, they have. THe Vitakinetic order, to be specific, does a great deal of work with non-psions. Most of their order are non-psion medical people, so genetic samples, brain scans, and any number of other medical information has been seen and analyzed in enough places that if psions were really not human, then the secret would have been out by now; there's simply too many places for information to leak from for Aeon to catch it all. Moreover, IIRC, the M-R node was discovered by two scientists who weren't originally working for Utopia, and they were hired after their discovery was made public.
I think Alex has been making a big deal out of the "occasionally novas erupted before N-Day" but I would think that there were as many, possibly more, psiads who naturally emerged prior to that than novas. The Trinity books infer that psions outnumber novas at least ten to one. Since psiads are much lower power, most of them would not have been noticed (or maybe burned at the stake! A great explanation for the start of wacky things like the Salem Witch trials! ::biggrin )

I am not making any claims to the internal consistency of Trinity, I am not that familiar with it. But the fact remains that Psions cannot be human regardless of anyone knowing or not. Prometheus tanks use alien genetic material and lock a potential DNA into "Psion" mode. If you wake up tomorrow and your DNA is not human, you simply are not human anymore.

The ratio of natural Nova and Psiad natural awakening is irrelevant. Even one naturally ocurring Nova eruption pre-N-Day proves Nova nature is not aberrant and that they are not inhuman monsters. Even if some may look monstrous that means nothing. If I suffer 3rd-degree burns all over my body I will look like a monster but I am still human. Elephant Man was human, as is that South American family with all the extreme facial hair.

BlueNinja · January 29, 2007

I am not making any claims to the internal consistency of Trinity, I am not that familiar with it. But the fact remains that Psions cannot be human regardless of anyone knowing or not. Prometheus tanks use alien genetic material and lock a potential DNA into "Psion" mode. If you wake up tomorrow and your DNA is not human, you simply are not human anymore.

From what I understand of it (not having all of the Trinity books) psions do not have alien DNA spliced in, they rather have small portions of their human DNA rearranged. The best medical technicians of the day cannot find anything in their genome after this that would make them not human.

The ratio of natural Nova and Psiad natural awakening is irrelevant. Even one naturally ocurring Nova eruption pre-N-Day proves Nova nature is not aberrant and that they are not inhuman monsters. Even if some may look monstrous that means nothing. If I suffer 3rd-degree burns all over my body I will look like a monster but I am still human. Elephant Man was human, as is that South American family with all the extreme facial hair.

Actually, it is relevent, because it means that more humans are gaining natural powers than are becoming non-human creatures. The fact of novas appearance could just be one of those evolutionary dead ends, a hundred thousand years in the future; alternately, psions and psiads could be the dead-end in favor of novas. That's one of those to-each-game-their-own things.

NFVD · January 29, 2007

From what I understand of it (not having all of the Trinity books) psions do not have alien DNA spliced in, they rather have small portions of their human DNA rearranged. The best medical technicians of the day cannot find anything in their genome after this that would make them not human.

Again I re-state that I am not making any claims about Trinity's internal consistency.

However...

From "Trinity: The Story So Far…"

"The humans undergo psionic surgery that melds Doyen genetics into their human physiology. The proxies become potent psi users, one step removed from Doyen themselves."

"Each proxy receives a strange container that pulses with subquantum energy – a nascent Prometheus chamber. Each tank triggers psi in latent humans, reconfiguring the individual’s genetic structure so that she can channel psi."

The very fact that a potential has to be dunked into a tank built by alien technology to become a Psion, negates fully any claim about the "natural-ness" of the process.

The quoted text came straight from the developers and casts a shower of "inhumane" over all Psions, especially the Proxies.

I am not in the least interested in explaining why no one can detect it in Trinity. This is an issue best taken with the game developers. But the fact remains their DNA is changed and alien genetic material has a part in it.

Actually, it is relevant, because it means that more humans are gaining natural powers than are becoming non-human creatures. The fact of novas appearance could just be one of those evolutionary dead ends, a hundred thousand years in the future; alternately, psions and psiads could be the dead-end in favour of novas. That's one of those to-each-game-their-own things.

Not quite.

Having just re-checked my Aberrant and Trinity material and it turns out that:

1) Throughout the Aeon Continuum line, The Psiad-Nova awakening ratio is actually grossly tilted in the Novas favour with but a few known cases that the Aeon Society takes under its wing. Following your logic this makes Novas more natural than Psiads.

2) The genetic potential that may cause Eruption is also what may cause Psionic awakening. Thus any claim about Nova "monstrosity" automatically throws Psiads into the same bucket.

The Psions have been demonstrated to be something other than human. Novas are not monsters and are inherently human, more so than Psions.

I respectfully apologise but this is not a each-man-his-own-game issue. Rather, it is a case of a gameline pandering to a supposed approach to very nature of its denizens while leaving sprayed information throughout all the line that contradicts all our assumption that come with a first reading of the books.

It is either a very, very well constructed layer-within-layer metaverse or a product of sloppy design and lack of attention to cohesiveness between the different game lines that are part of a whole. If I come out as insistent on these matters I am sorry, but the Aberrant gameline (I am SO going to run this game) is sadly the most overburdened of the all 3 with this sloppiness/genius layering, its roots and deep within Adventure! and its future is sacrificed for Trinity’s sake. Sigh.

We may very well ignore metaplot at out will. Heck, I am going to fully divorce my Aberrant campaign from Adventure! and Trinity even if I would jump at the opportunity to play any of them (I even started a thread about it). So these issues will be moot point on it. I just figured I would toss ideas and questions around and do my humble bit to throw fuel into the fires that illuminate our understanding of the Aeon Continuum.

Centimane · January 29, 2007

The following is from the APG pgs. 58-59:

As psi and quantum function differently, it's not surprising that psiads (sometimes called "psychs" by the crew of Project Pandora) are distinct from eximorphs.
Just how they're distinct raises a number of thorny pseudo-scientific issues. At the most fundamental elvel, novas and psychs derive from similar genetic potential. That's the only thing that novas and proto-psions share. The variables involved are many, but once the developmental switch flips one way, it can't be flipped back. An individual with the proper geneitc background might erupt as a nova, or he might manifest as a psychomorph. A nova doesn't develop latent psi talent; he grows an M-R node. Coversely, a psych won't develop a node; he possesses latency, which may later develop into psychic power.
The unique genetic characteristics shared by both nova and psych at the nascent stage are as yet beyond science's ability to meausre. Neither the Mega-Intelligent nova scientists of the Nova Age nor the advanced science of the Trinity Era can answer all the questions of nova (or psiad) genetics. Sure, novas have the Mazarin-Rashoud node, but that doesn't explain everything about being an eximorph. The same goes for psiads. Most significantly, where does it all begin? Before a nova's node actually starts to develop, before a psych's noetic powers manifest, what makes a person different?
As far as Aberrant and Trinity are concerned, that question will never be answered conclusively. Nor was it ever meant to be. We leave it up to you to decide.
Still, we can shed some light on which way nascent individuals flip. In the Nova Age, the majority of nascents become novas. Why? Well, to put it simply, it's easier. Quantum forces have a more direct impact upon the physical universe than noetic energy. This holds true for a nascent subject. Due to the existence of a particularly powerful nova on earth during the Aberrant era, it's easier at this stage of human history for the genetic variables to line up properly for a nova eruption than it is for them to trigger psionic abilities.
Once that nova takes his leave of Earth, th eruption rate drops precipitously. Psiads, and later psions, will become more common as the nascency required to channel psi is more reliably passed down than is the capacity to become a nova. As more psions and proto-psions appear during the Trinity Era, their offspring are more likely to not only have nascent potential, but for that potential to trigger as psionics.
(No one in the Aberrant or Trinity Eras has yet realized this significant tidbit, though.)

As you can see, neither is more, or less natural than the other. It simply depends which way the wind is blowing. If the wind is blowing North (or if there's more quantum energy blowing around in a given area) then the weathervein points North (or the nascent becomes a nova), if it's blowing South (there's not much quantum around, or there's a whole ton of fully developed psions around) the weathervein points South (the nascent becomes a latent psiad/psion). Simple as that.

This is from a text box on pg. 59 of the same book:

Novas and psiads derive their powers from the same initial genetic source, but it's a nascent genetic potential, not a readily identifiable physiological organ. In proto-psions, a subtle genetic change occurs, but not in any one area of the body as with a nova's M-R node. Instead, the psych's entire physical form becomes a receptor for, and conduit of, noetic energy. As a result, psiads gain special advantages (and limitations) that their distant cousins don't have.

It then goes on to list what those advantages and limitations are in Aberrant terms. The short of it is that psiads are not affected by taint. Meaning that they don't suffer from aberrations or taint-related illnesses. They are also immune to any kind of drug that is specifically geared toward nova physiology.

As far as I know that right there is about as close to spilling the beans as to what's really going on inside a nova and a psiad as WW ever got.

The final results of this information is that, in point of fact, neither novas nor psions are entirely "human" in the strictest sense of the word. In fact the "nascents" referred to would be the true "paramorphs" since they both start out exactly the same, but end up entirely different.

Both are inhuman, and both suffer from certain limitations. Both are also operating on "thorny pseudo-sceintific" principles that bear no real resemblance to what we actually know about the universe.

I believe the term used to describe the missing element that would allow acceptance of the Aeonverse history is commonly called "suspension of disbelief".

Something I make heavy use of every time I log onto this forum. ::wink

NFVD · January 29, 2007

QUOTE

The following is from the APG pgs. 58-59:As you can see, neither is more, or less natural than the other.

So you agree that Novas are not monsters as their nature is fundamentally the same as a Psiad.

For clarification's sake lets us please establish something once and for all given all that has been said in the thread:

Potential = a human with the genetic trigger that might allow both Eruption or Psionnicaly Awakening

Nova = an erupted potentials, naturally occurring under right circumstances, has control over Quantum

Psiad = a psionic awakened potential, naturally occurring under right circumstances, rarer than a Nova, has control over Neotic forces

Psion = a potential mutated via alien technology, has control over Neotic force albeit with a much more limited scope than a Psiad, technically no longer human from a genetic point of view

Aberrant = a nova with high levels of Taint that manifest in mental and physical aberrations to the point where he/she can no longer interact with baseline humanity, technically a human being from a genetic point of view although extreme anatomical alterations might lead you to think otherwise

I have seen the term Psiad and Psion tossed around as if synonyms. It is not and mixing up the two leads to a lot of confusion. You wrote "the nascent becomes a latent psiad/psion" that's a no-no. There are potentials or latents or whatever we choose to call them. They either Erupt, Awaken or stay baseline. That's it. Psions are not a natural occurrence. The only similarity between a Psion and a Psion is they can both use Psi, even the source of their control over Psi is different. Psiads come to do so naturally, Psions get to do it because they get dunked into an alien tank and are pumped with alien genetic material.

Are we clear about this? Unless I have gravely missed something... ::indifferent

QUOTE

This is from a text box on pg. 59 of the same book:

It then goes on to list what those advantages and limitations are in Aberrant terms. The short of it is that psiads are not affected by taint. Meaning that they don't suffer from aberrations or taint-related illnesses. They are also immune to any kind of drug that is specifically geared toward nova physiology.It fails to explain the "why" of the lack of Taint.

They are immune to any kind of drug specifically geared toward nova physiology? Do they have unearthly stamina? It is stated that most Nova-drugs are so concentrated will outright kill a human being.

Please don't tell me this is yet another inconsistency. ::brick

QUOTE

As far as I know that right there is about as close to spilling the beans as to what's really going on inside a nova and a psiad as WW ever got.

The final results of this information is that, in point of fact, neither novas nor psions are entirely "human" in the strictest sense of the word.

*sigh*. I think you meant Psiads and novas. Psions are most definetively not human. Novas are genetic humans.

QUOTE

In fact the "nascents" referred to would be the true "paramorphs" since they both start out exactly the same, but end up entirely different.

Both are inhuman, and both suffer from certain limitations. Both are also operating on "thorny pseudo-sceintific" principles that bear no real resemblance to what we actually know about the universe.

I believe the term used to describe the missing element that would allow acceptance of the Aeonverse history is commonly called "suspension of disbelief".

Something I make heavy use of every time I log onto this forum. ::wink

Suspension of disbelief is not supposed to help you blindly accept internal inconsistencies in a fictional framework derived from canonical statements...does it? ::confused

What I have seen so far brings Nova and Psiad (Psiad! not Psion for goodness sake) natures closer and closer together and alienates Psions more and more from baseline humanity. However, Novas get the raw end of the deal. Why? For plot reasons that appear to violate the global framework of the Aeonverse when taken as a whole. If logical in-game explanations were given I wouldn't even be posting. Apparently they are not given.

I have already confessed in these forums I am a sucker for consistency. Mea Culpa!

Everyone can spin bullshit and make a tale riddled with holes. What I respect the most are storytellers able to weave tales of such consistency that they would pass for real. The Aeon Continuum obviously has some issues that need to be tackled to make sense as a whole.

So I'm terribly sorry but just pointing at the rulebook and saying "gee...that's the way it is" and not explaining why or how just does not cut it for me at all.

Subtly implying I lack "suspension of disbelief" does not help, either. ::tongue

phoenix · January 29, 2007

Suspension of disbelief is not supposed to help you blindly accept internal inconsistencies in a fictional framework derived from canonical statements...does it?

Hmm. Well, actually, when those "inconsistencies" are based in quantum physics, I would say yes, yes it is.

What I have seen so far brings Nova and Psiad (Psiad! not Psion for goodness sake) natures closer and closer together and alienates Psions more and more from baseline humanity. However, Novas get the raw end of the deal. Why? For plot reasons that appear to violate the global framework of the Aeonverse when taken as a whole. If logical in-game explanations were given I wouldn't even be posting. Apparently they are not given.

::huh From what I can understand, your argument runs as follows:

-Novas are created from Homo sapiens DNA, while psions are infused with the DNA of aliens.

-Therefore, psions are genetically less human than novas, and other humans.

-Therefore, psions should be mentally less human than novas and other humans.

This is, in a word, disingenuous. I can explain why if you want, but I hope it stands out. (Also, it's a little hard for me to know how much/little people who haven't studied it understand about genetics.)

And as far as the Aeon continuum being "bullshit riddled with holes"... Well, all I can say is, if you don't like it, don't play it. No, this isn't particularly hard science fiction; the "explanations" tend to be written with more of an emphasis on "sounding scientific" than actually being scientific. That's what most gamers are looking for - I, for one, get enough science from my science classes. ::ultracool

Centimane · January 29, 2007

Psion = a potential mutated via alien technology, has control over Neotic force albeit with a much more limited scope than a Psiad, technically no longer human from a genetic point of view

Technically none of them are. Psiads and novas both contain extra genetic material and, thusly, neither of them are human (though both would be direct offshoots of humanity and thus closely related). Psions, having alien DNA inside them would, as you say, be further seperated from humanity, but that doesn't make novas or psions any more human by comparison.

Aberrant = a nova with high levels of Taint that manifest in mental and physical aberrations to the point where he/she can no longer interact with baseline humanity, technically a human being from a genetic point of view although extreme anatomical alterations might lead you to think otherwise

Once again, novas, aberrants, or whatever you want to call them are not human. Closely related to humanity? Yes. Fully human? No.

I have seen the term Psiad and Psion tossed around as if synonyms. It is not and mixing up the two leads to a lot of confusion. You wrote "the nascent becomes a latent psiad/psion" that's a no-no.

Sorry, I'll try and do better from now on. ::rolleyes

It fails to explain the "why" of the lack of Taint.

It does indeed, and that bothered me as well. I suppose we could try a theory that says that novas are, for some currently unknown reason, more susceptible to developing "quantum cancer" than psiads. Amongst humans some are more likely to develop certain forms of cancer than others, so maybe there's something similar going on with novas. This is, of course, just a personal theory (and one I just cooked up off the top of my head).

They are immune to any kind of drug specifically geared toward nova physiology? Do they have unearthly stamina? It is stated that most Nova-drugs are so concentrated will outright kill a human being.

This is only a serious problem if you're still running under the assumption that psions are still human. Abandon that notion and this ceases to be a serious problem.

*sigh*. I think you meant Psiads and novas. Psions are most definetively not human. Novas are genetic humans.

Again, I just don't agree. A nova's powers allow them to learn to do things like alter everything right down to their genetic codes, even the genetic codes of others. At worst novas are mutants, and at best they are a full-fledged separate species.

Suspension of disbelief is not supposed to help you blindly accept internal inconsistencies in a fictional framework derived from canonical statements...does it?

Actually...that's exactly what it's good for. ::wink

So I'm terribly sorry but just pointing at the rulebook and saying "gee...that's the way it is" and not explaining why or how just does not cut it for me at all.

I understand, I really do, but unfortunately as I posted earlier, "As far as Aberrant and Trinity are concerned, that question will never be answered conclusively. Nor was it ever meant to be. We leave it up to you to decide".

Subtly implying I lack "suspension of disbelief" does not help, either.

I didn't think I was being that subtle. ::tongue Seriously though, I'm glad you've still got your sense of humor, cuz I think you're gonna need it to see your way through this one.

NFVD · January 29, 2007

Hmm. Well, actually, when those "inconsistencies" are based in quantum physics, I would say yes, yes it is.
,,
::huh From what I can understand, your argument runs as follows:
-Novas are created from Homo sapiens DNA, while psions are infused with the DNA of aliens.
-Therefore, psions are genetically less human than novas, and other humans.
-Therefore, psions should be mentally less human than novas and other humans.
This is, in a word, disingenuous. I can explain why if you want, but I hope it stands out. (Also, it's a little hard for me to know how much/little people who haven't studied it understand about genetics.)

My argument is only limited to the first two senteces. What a sec, you critizice my demand for "hard science explanations" wrongly I might add because if you assume that you misinterpertred my posts, yet you bring out the guns: "I know more about genetics than thou" ?

Be more "consistent" please. ::laugh

And as far as the Aeon continuum being "bullshit riddled with holes"... Well, all I can say is, if you don't like it, don't play it. No, this isn't particularly hard science fiction; the "explanations" tend to be written with more of an emphasis on "sounding scientific" than actually being scientific. That's what most gamers are looking for - I, for one, get enough science from my science classes. ::ultracool

Woa! Woa! Woooaa! Down boy! Easy!

Ok, its my fault I should have been more specific but I never stated Aeon is "bullshit riddled with holes" I was speaking generically about my take on created fictional settings and storytelling in general. ::scared

Goodness man, dont throw the "love it leave it argument" around like that (that would be admiting moral defeat BTW if I was impling Aeon to be anything of the sort ::sly ). Hey you know what? maybe the fact that I am not a native speaker makes it hard to express my point in english. So far I dont think no one has grasped what I am trying to say. Your knee-jerk reaction makes me fear I should just kill this thread lest I offend some really obnoxious fanboy...

Good grief with beans and a cocunut hat....*sigh* I only wanted some answers. I have known the freaking setting for less than a week and I fail to reach out to people with accumulated years of experience on it. ::sad

And NO Phoenix I'm no implying you are a fanboy, even if your "love it or leave" jibe hurt me somewhat...

NFVD · January 29, 2007

Technically none of them are. Psiads and novas both contain extra genetic material and, thusly, neither of them are human (though both would be direct offshoots of humanity and thus closely related). Psions, having alien DNA inside them would, as you say, be further seperated from humanity, but that doesn't make novas or psions any more human by comparison.
Once again, novas, aberrants, or whatever you want to call them are not human. Closely related to humanity? Yes. Fully human? No.
,,
Sorry, I'll try and do better from now on. ::rolleyes

Don't you dare paternize me you fiend, you ::laugh

It does indeed, and that bothered me as well. I suppose we could try a theory that says that novas are, for some currently unknown reason, more susceptible to developing "quantum cancer" than psiads. Amongst humans some are more likely to develop certain forms of cancer than others, so maybe there's something similar going on with novas. This is, of course, just a personal theory (and one I just cooked up off the top of my head).
This is probably the take on the "missing psion node" issue I've read so far. kudos.

For the rest of Nova/Psion/Psiad nature, I may have departed from wrong assumptions. I have very little material besides Aberrant stuff. I think my take on the subject would be correct if said assumptions were right. Again, I cannot verify this but I'll just have to take everyone's word on the matter plus your argument bellow seals the issue.

I understand, I really do, but unfortunately as I posted earlier, "As far as Aberrant and Trinity are concerned, that question will never be answered conclusively. Nor was it ever meant to be. We leave it up to you to decide".

::lol If only someone had said this 50,000 words ago.

This is effectively the swan's death. I do not need to bother my fellow forumites with anoying questions about this issue.

I didn't think I was being that subtle. ::tongue Seriously though, I'm glad you've still got your sense of humor, cuz I think you're gonna need it to see your way through this one.

What did you mean "see myself out of" ? I was not trying to prove anything or change anyone mind. I just wanted answers for issues that did not make sense to me. Aparently they are not supposed to make sense and never were. In fact there is no issue at all because now I know (i've been reading other threads while this was going on) the Continuum ws never designed to be consistent or make sense as a whole. I tought someone had made a mistake in the developing team. There is no mistake because there was no attempt.

::laugh Oh sweet banana. the horible irony of it all hahaha!

I have more sense of humor than your averge Nova ::happy

Sadly, I also hurt easy, that's why i'm miffed about Phoenix's less than caring coments. Saying "love it or leave it" sounds pretty dictatorial. This is a public forum is it not? ::sad

Kudos

SkyLion · January 29, 2007

Hey man!

,,

No worries. We're Cool.

,,

You just have to realize that you're posting in a forum where most people love the way three separate genres were tied togetehr to form a single timeline. I think its awesome...Pulp, Super-Powers, and Psionic Sci-Fi = kickass!

,,

I understand you are trying to piece things together and we are happy to help. And there is certainly nothing wrong with having a thread on standalone Aberrant. Infact, if you wanted to run a game in such a setting, i am sure you would be stampeded with requests to play ((On record...Im the first! ::cool ))

,,

However, you might want to give Adventure! and possibly even Trinity before you start just bashing what you are not well-informed about. There *IS* a way for it all to make sense, and we have all been trying our best to show you, but it does require accepting some technobable,and jargon about what things "mean." Especially since alot of what has you riled up has to do with the nature of the fictional "reality" ie what are quantum and sub-quantum forces etc...thats like crazy physics stuff so we have to suspend our disbelief in order to create the right "feel" and "mood" for the games and their respective genres.

,,

WW has always been more about mood setting and story than hard science and explanations. There are plenty of other games that take a harder science stance. Yes this is a public forum and Im sure that Phoenix meant no harm. All ideas are welcome...

,,

Now...everybody put their "guns" away before I have to use mine!

Centimane · January 29, 2007

What did you mean "see myself out of" ? I was not trying to prove anything or change anyone mind. I just wanted answers for issues that did not make sense to me.

Yes, well. Maybe that's what you were trying to do, but the majority of your posts made it seem as though you were trying to convince people that psions weren't human, and novas and psiads were. You actually seemed pretty opinionated about it. You also seemed pretty intent on refuting most of the points that the others posted here. Which is cool with me by the way, personally I've been getting a kick out of your posts. They're super-fun to read. It's just that it doesn't really look like all you want is answers, it looks like you want some of the rest of us to admit that the only really good setting in the Aeon line is Aberrant, and A! and Trinity - as cool as parts of them might be - just mess it up.

Just an observation mind you. I reserve the right to be wrong, ignorant, and misinformed as part of my constitutional rights as an American. ::indifferent

Sadly, I also hurt easy, that's why i'm miffed about Phoenix's less than caring coments. Saying "love it or leave it" sounds pretty dictatorial. This is a public forum is it not? ::sad

This is the part that your sense of humor can help you out of. I hope that clears things up for you. ::smile

NFVD · January 29, 2007

Mmyeah...I guess you guys were right. My posts may come out as prechy. That's not what I meant to do.

And damn its not the first time it's happened...I remember that time I was posting on the RIFTS boards...

Ahem...

I blame my bloody by non-nativity no English. I also tend to write to much.

And yes I was rather defensive on some of my posts but It seemed no-one was getting what I was trying to say, and to be honest some of the people posting back we're even less into some of the issue. I ended up preching someone about the proper usage of Psiad/Psion but by that time I was so desperate of having to explain the same thing over gain that I just didn't care. I had prepared a paragraph about Superman eating kryptonite for breakfast to explain my gripe with plot inconcistecies. Sadly I ran out of characters and, cut it out and someone ended up think =ing I was acusing the Aeon continuum of being crap.

*sigh* and we wander why Novas and baselines cant live along he? ::laugh

,,

Just an important point though. I am a sucker for sci-fi, from Space Opera to the Hard Science stuff. I also love Pulps even if i've had very limited aces to them.

I woud love to try Adventure! (you can't beat albino monkey driving retro-mecha) and even Trinity, ok the vibe is slightly off my tune in that one but it seems to have its merits.

But Aberrant knocked my socks off from the moment I started reading the N! news pages in the rulebook. I mean, I haven't STed in about 1.5 year and I've already kicked two of my friends colective arses into making PCs to play in my campaign. As soon as I get a third we will lauch.

I guess I am just disapointed in it being the middle game and the hardest to er..."release" from the influences of the other two. I don't like a future metaplot cast in stone that efectively means the death of the setting in the long run. From what I have read in these forums I'm not the only one to think so. And I've seen some pretty strong fans of Trinity taking something of an issue if someone tries to "prove" that the aberrants arent that bad, that Aeon and Mercer are evil and Divis Mal is not a monster. Or *gasp* tries to point out the inconcistencies.

No one likes when the other guy takes a poo in his sandbox. IMHO Aberrant and been defecated upon (methaphoricaly speaking) from its very conception to abide the needs of another game. Its only natural some people might have a teeny issue with it.

,,

I dunno, I guess in future i'll just ask politely, read the replies and keep my coments to myself. At the most a simple "excuse me sir, I did not quit understand what you meant with X" will suffice.

And lo is me another damn post comes out looking preachy. I join join the freakin church! ::rolleyes

P.S. - Cottus, I am very much curious about A! and T and I do not think Abr is the only good game in the Continuum (specially given my levels of ignorance of the other two). I do think, however, that Aberrant would be a much better game had it been released on its own. This does not steem from anything in A! T or Abr nature but from the simple fact that it is the "middle child" and must make the most sacrificies to the whole. Had A! or Try been the "middle child" they would be faced with exactly the same problem. This might not be a problem for meta-campaigns but might rill up people who want to play it for its own sake. (I'm guilty as charged with a smoking gun in my hand)

P.S.S. - SkyLion I'm sure the answer to *how* it is all supposed to work togheter must be somewhere between the answers to the eletronic chaos I have spent the better part of a night typing. If it is not to much to ask, can you enlighten me on the nature the continuum "Holy Grail"?. I'll take it at face value and will not disagree, I might ask you to clarify something if I get lost on the meaning of the "technobable", ok?

If this was a Star Trek forum I'd probably be banned for life by this point... ::tongue

metaphysician · January 29, 2007

Your "reality warp" approach is very interesting, however. But it fails to explain Taint and furthermore if accurate might effectively mean that Novas have the potential to "warp" their personal reality and get rid of taint altogether.
Hmmmm....

Actually, is explains Taint nicely: Taint is the mutative effect of eximorphic reality warping done inprecisely. The bare minimum taint accumulation is just from the unavoidable inaccuracies in changing oneself. When you accumulate temp taint from botches and such, basically, you screwed up the warping so something changed that wasn't supposed to. And if you buy alot of powers tainted, what it means is your pushing yourself too fast and too hard, and thus changing yourself in alot of ways you didn't intend.

As for getting rid of taint, well, yes. And there's at least a few ways it could be done in canon: Plank Scaling could do it. Chrysalis basically does so, albeit in a very focused and limited manner, and with side effects of its own. Its just, using my ideas, getting rid of Taint would be about as hard as getting rid of a quantum power or mega-attribute.

The only thing it *doesn't* explain is such elements as "taint radiation", or the energy charge of quantum points novas have. I'm pretty sure you could work either of them out into something useful.

Alex Green · January 29, 2007

1) Throughout the Aeon Continuum line, The Psiad-Nova awakening ratio is actually grossly tilted in the Novas favour with but a few known cases that the Aeon Society takes under its wing. Following your logic this makes Novas more natural than Psiads.

We aren't dealing with a natural event here. Divis knew what he wanted and he tilled the odds sharply in his favor.

metaphysician · January 29, 2007

Yep, Divis Mal didn't want to just duplicate the Hammersmith Incident this time.

Though. . . doesn't that imply that natural development of psychamorphs and eximorphs follows a inverse relationship? Either you have high levels of quantum energy, and you get novas, or you have high levels of noetic energy, and you get psiads, or you have high levels of both, and you get low level Inspired of all types. IOW, you won't get large numbers of natural development of psiads and novas at the same time.

phoenix · January 29, 2007

::blink Wow, this thread is growing really quickly. EON's been busy lately.

Edsan, I am sorry if I came off as dictatorial and bitchy! ::blush I was just trying to make a point about scientific standards in fiction, and I may have misinterpreted your comments a bit.

I don't have time to address the issues you brought up any more than I have, but I just wanted to post to let you know that really, I'm delighted to have you starting conversations over this kind of thing on EON. We're cool. ::thumbup1

BlueNinja · January 29, 2007

Edsan, I think youre placing a bit too much emphasis on the genetics of it. Considering just how many gene sequences are alike in wildly different types of animals, it's not something that pops into my mind first when debating the humanity/non-humanity of novas and psions. And considering that the Coalition is goofing around with baseline, psion, and nova DNA sequences within hours of grabbing some, I hope you understand why I don't consider it a big deal.

Novas are physiologically not human. They have an extra organ that no baseline or psion has, and even non-tainted novas have fertility difficulties with regular humans, with the more-tainted ones being different enough to effectively no longer be human for reasons of procreation. From a scientific standpoint, this is what leld the UN to declare novas homo sapiens novus, ie a subspecies. Psions are physiologically human, by any standards that the doctors and scientists of the Trinity era can find. Barring mode dysfunction (and possibly not even then) they do not have problems with procreation with normal humans, and they do not have any sort of extra organ or hormone (that has been detected) that would set them apart from regular humanity, ergo they are human.

Centimane · January 29, 2007

Novas are physiologically not human. They have an extra organ that no baseline or psion has, and even non-tainted novas have fertility difficulties with regular humans, with the more-tainted ones being different enough to effectively no longer be human for reasons of procreation. From a scientific standpoint, this is what leld the UN to declare novas homo sapiens novus, ie a subspecies. Psions are physiologically human, by any standards that the doctors and scientists of the Trinity era can find. Barring mode dysfunction (and possibly not even then) they do not have problems with procreation with normal humans, and they do not have any sort of extra organ or hormone (that has been detected) that would set them apart from regular humanity, ergo they are human.

Now see, that's something I hadn't realized (the part about psions or psiads being able to reproduce with no difficuties). So how does this reconcile with the rest of Aeon canon. Because as you can see from the text I quoted from in one of my last posts, both psiads and novas come from the same genetic potential. It's just that the genetic material in question can go in one of two directions, either to nova or to psiad "eruption". So at this point we have a number of thorny issues to consider.

If psiads are human, and they come from the same genetic heritage as novas, then novas would be human as well.

Unless.... If we say that the genes for developing latency are actually some kind of recessive trait that's been buried within certain members of humanity for millenia then you could say that they're essentially human. But in that case becoming a nova either represents a mutation (i.e. evolution), or novas are just as "human" as psiads.

And really, the fact that psiads and some novas can breed with baseline humanity doesn't really prove much. Closely related, yet distinct species are fully capable of interbreeding, and subspecies can interbreed with relative impunity. Whether this is a good thing or not is a different matter entirely.

So, are we saying that psiads merely possess some recessive genetic trait that, at some point in the past, a much larger bloc of humanity possessed and which is only now reemerging, or are we saying that the genetic potential for latency represents a relatively new mutation of the human genome that grants a new set of advantages to its carrier? Because if it's the latter then psiads and psions are just as much a "subspecies" as novas are.

I don't pretend to know the answer myself, I've just been quoting the books so far, so I'm curious to know what others' takes on this subject are.

BlueNinja · January 29, 2007

So, are we saying that psiads merely possess some recessive genetic trait that, at some point in the past, a much larger bloc of humanity possessed and which is only now reemerging, or are we saying that the genetic potential for latency represents a relatively new mutation of the human genome that grants a new set of advantages to its carrier? Because if it's the latter then psiads and psions are just as much a "subspecies" as novas are.

My take is that the latentcy is a mutation that, until 'recent' history, had no effect on the overall evolution of the human species. Psionic breakthrough seems, to me at least, a more effective and more useful one, because the genes are more easily carried on to successive generation. That makes them more human.

Whether or not it's a good thing for them to be more human is entirely a different subject. And again, this is just my take on it.

metaphysician · January 30, 2007

The way I see it: genetically, eximorphs, paramorphs, and psychamorphs are all human, in the Homo sapiens sense. They each may constitute subspecies, at most, but they all come from the same genetic base.

The point where things get tricky is reproduction. Divergence in reproductive behavior doesn't *automatically* cause speciation, but it does lead to it. The thing is, sans sterility cocktails, novas by default can interbreed with each other and baseline humans. Those that can't, generally can't breed at all.

So, novas ( or any of them ) *could* become a separate species, but they aren't automatically. Now, on Eden, for instance, there's the chance this could happen, especially if somebody there figures out how to trigger eruption.

Centimane · January 30, 2007

Alright. I can live with these answers. They actually make a lot of sense. So first generation "Inspired" are, for all intents and purposes, human - at most a subspecies, but maybe not even that. As for any of their children or grandchildren, well that's really up to evolution. Okay, makes sense to me.

NFVD · January 30, 2007

::blink Wow, this thread is growing really quickly. EON's been busy lately.
Edsan, I am sorry if I came off as dictatorial and bitchy! ::blush I was just trying to make a point about scientific standards in fiction, and I may have misinterpreted your comments a bit.
I don't have time to address the issues you brought up any more than I have, but I just wanted to post to let you know that really, I'm delighted to have you starting conversations over this kind of thing on EON. We're cool. ::thumbup1

Thanks dude, we're cool ::laugh

About the "humanity" & genetics of Novas/Psions/Psiads/Inspired issue kicking around in the last 10 posts.

Blueninja mentioned the Nova/baseline fertility issues and pointed to the infamous MS-Node. Nova-baseline infertility is an artificial factor derived from Project Utopia's meddling. The MS-Node however is a more valid argument, even if there are human beings in the real world who are born with, say, a 6th finger in either hand and we still consider them Homo Sapiens.

An idea just hit me. Have Psions in the Trinity Age been declared "Homo Sapiens Psy" or something of the sort by the UN?

I have the feeling all the issues in the Nova Age about Nova nature and the strangely smooth acceptance of Psions in the Psion Age are a sign of the difference of times.

The Zurich Accord was signed less than 3 months after N-Day and 6 months before the MR-Node was discovered. As far as I can tell Taint was also unknown at the time.

It states Novas are effectively human, but at the same not totally human but something else. Sapiens Novus instead of Sapiens Sapiens.

Considering the scarcity of information available at the time, I am beginning to think the Zurich Accord was nothing more that a whitewash feeble attempt to bring some order to a crazed world. It says Novas have human rights and little else, it makes no provisions whatsoever for the future integration of Novas is society at large and fails to address problems specific to Nova existence. Like saying that children with special problems are the same as adults, with the same rights and obligations. Except these children have super-powers.

Maybe old Mal was partly right insofar as he rejected the Zurich Accord. It was certainly one the most rushed pieces of law ever passed.

Had the UN known about the MR-Node and Taint, would they still have passed it?

The Aberrant Nova physiological differences are a touchier subject. Consider that Novas with Dormancy can effectively shut down their Node and "become baseline" and Dormancy 4 effectively allows Mr reptilian-beast-with-flames-around-him to revert into humanoid form and do the 2 humped beast. Also, the genes of a Nova are not the cause of physiological differences. Not do these change their DNA.

I would say conception is possible even for, say, Leviathan had he Dormancy 4 or if someone bothered to harvest his sperm and impregnate a female (yuk).

The resulting offspring is open to debate and it depends on how much Trinity Era canon you'd be tossing into the subject. You might have the tentacled Nova baby from hell or a normal child with a variant probability of Erupting after his teens depending on the genetic make up of the mother.

I personally thing Nova physiology is a moot point in a debate about their humanity or lack of it. The Norca can shapeshift and they are still human, if one lost control of her powers and became "stuck" to a form she'd still be human, I guess.

In another personal take the pervasion of Taint and Aberrations in Aberrant is something that stems from the game’s nature and theme rather than a take on Nova nature.

Vampire is a game about playing a Monster, Trinity is about playing the Superhuman defenders of Earth versus the Horrors from the Starts. In Aberrant you play “the minority”, “the other” (pardon my english), you are the jew with the golden star of David in your clothes, the nigger slave, the gay, the paki store-owner and human society is afraid of you, but unlike every minority so far you have more than enough power to fight back for your right to live.

metaphysician · January 30, 2007

IMHO, awareness of the MR Node wouldn't have meaningfully changed the Zurich Accord. Presence or absence of a bit of tissue in the brain as the source of the powers, doesn't change the essential fact that novas are "people with powers," which is the focus of the Accord.

Now, knowledge about Taint? *That* could conceivably change things. However, at this stage of the game, there are probably only two or three people on the planet who know about Taint, and none of them have an incentive to spill the beans.

NFVD · January 30, 2007

IMHO, awareness of the MR Node wouldn't have meaningfully changed the Zurich Accord. Presence or absence of a bit of tissue in the brain as the source of the powers, doesn't change the essential fact that novas are "people with powers," which is the focus of the Accord.
Now, knowledge about Taint? *That* could conceivably change things. However, at this stage of the game, there are probably only two or three people on the planet who know about Taint, and none of them have an incentive to spill the beans.

Yes, Taint is the defining element of the game and Nova nature. The fact that the cause/nature of Taint is a bit hazy, Trinity canon about it and Teragen's take on the issue only complicate things.

The incurable nature of Taint, a defining element of the game, might not be the cast-iron curse the setting initially leads you believe.

As someone mentioned in the forums, Planck Scaling could remove Taint completely, as could Universe Creation in a different way. Imagine a Q10 nova with 0 Taint walking around ::cool Wonder if he would emanate any "socially bad vibes"? Notwithstanding any very bad botches or buying of tainted powers would this Nova automatically gain Taint due to a Quantum rating above 4?

The *precise* nature of Taint being open to discussion, I wonder if it is possible to obtain the ability to use Quantum without the danger of Taint. A Nova power which prevents it from happening?

This might seem like a cop-out but it's not hard to imagine an offshoot of Quantum Supremacy effectively allowing a Nova to channel the Quantum in a 100% "non-polluting" way.

These are all possibilities outside the scope of your average game but it would be nice to have a few definite answers before the game line went bust. Maybe had the game continued we would see something akin to Golconda appear in the game (Chrysalis is a paradoxical solution IMHO you trade-in not becoming a monster to become more inhumane). Even if such a solution did remove the character as active one (as Golgonda did in a way) it would be much more satisfying to retire a character from a campaign because he becomes a Quantum-illuminated hermit savant rather than Tiamat the monstrous tainted beast of dooooom! ::tongue

Aberrant RPG - Aberrant Setting questions

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