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Aberrant RPG - Most Powerful Characters "Legit" Characters


Jenacis

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Just noticed this had gone on without me...

So Alex, how are you figuring this? Since Mega-Dice work the same way, 5 Dex, 5 M Dex and 5 Stealth gives the same as 5 Per, 5 M Per and 5 Awareness. Since T's invisibility isn't full spectrum as has been pointed out, the enhanced hearing (and likely vision with M Per that high) would equal out or exceed the catfooted.
You started out correct. The maxed out dice and megas counter each other. However Catfooted then gives +3 Auto succ. Enhanced hearing gives +3 dice? Vision gives +1 die, if it is in use, which you can't depend on.

And then it gets worse. Invis gives [Q] auto succ if we are talking about vision.

Im assuming he gets extra succ for invisibility yes? With a M Per that high all you woould need is some Telepathy to do a mind scan. Sure T has the 10 willpower and 5 psychic shield but with a dice pool that huge, and with all you needing is 1 success to get the general feel, theres a good chance of finding him...
Mega-Per 5 with 5 telepathy gives 8.5 succ (10 normal dice and 5 megas). Totentanz starts with 10 auto succ to oppose that before throwing in his willpower, and he wins any ties. Those aren't good odds.
...especially if you add a danger sense to know when he is about to strike and then use Q-Vision to find him.
Now this has potential, and note we can skip most everything that came before it.
Once that big problem is solved, Immobilize, Gravity Field or the like will keep him pinned. I like the Drain Dex idea too.
Immobilize won't work, he's just too strong. Gravity Field is better but needs 5 succ to do anything.

As we have now negated his ambush, we have to worry about q-pool and q-leech wars. We also have to worry about T's 5 actions to pound on us if we get this wrong, and T's going to go first. If our defenses are up and cost q, then he can leech us once and use Quick to run away.

I think the better way to take him out is to do an "Adam Bomb" - Warp, with Area Q-Bolt. Even if he dodges, he still takes damage - and if you open the Warp twenty meters above his head, you're out of range. If he runs, you open a new Warp. The only downside is that you'll run out of juice really freaking quickly.
The other downsides are that T has Q-Leap and get up there, and with his soak he is unlikely to be badly hurt.

On the other hand you might be able to figure out a way to turn this to your advantage. He leaps up and ends up on Mars or something.

Regarding the T-Stop thing, what I meant was that you would move behind him, then turn off the T-Stop, while blasting him with your Q-Bolt. From T's perspective you've instantaneously appeared behind him with a Q-Bolt already in effect. If it's a decent Q-Bolt, and it's maxed out, and T has no warning, (wow that's a lot of commas!) then it's not going to be easy for him to successfully dodge/block/soak/whatever the damage that's hitting him like a "mountain" from behind. Not sayin' it's foolproof, just seemed like a particularly unusual and unexpected form of death. ::happy

And thanks for the responses too, nice to know someone cares. ::biggrin

With Mega-Dex 4 you can catch bullets. He's got Mega 5, and he might beat your Initiative to go first even if he is at a significant minus.

On the other hand if he's stuck in time we could take him through Michal's portal and dump him in Overclocked.

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The other downsides are that T has Q-Leap and get up there, and with his soak he is unlikely to be badly hurt.

On the other hand you might be able to figure out a way to turn this to your advantage. He leaps up and ends up on Mars or something.

If you have Adaptability (and T doesn't) that could work - explosive decompression is a nasty way to go. The other way is to cheat, and have your own Wall Forcefield up just on your side of the Warp - your Q-bolt will go through, but he can't jump up after you. Then you just run out of juice faster.
On the other hand if he's stuck in time we could take him through Michal's portal and dump him in Overclocked.
I didn't think you could move someone who was stopped in time?
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I dont have my book in front of me bt I always got the spirit of the power to mean it takes them outside of any normal action happening in time...
Taken to it's logical conclusion, that means that they are thrown off the planet at thousands of miles a hour as the Earth moves away from them. The actual quote is...

...It allows him to literally to stop time around a specific person or object. That person cannot move or use any powers or Abilities, he does not age and he cannot be affected by (and is unaware of) any outside force, phenomenon or attack while in suspension. (page 228)

The "cannot move" part is next to all the other things they can't do, so they are paralized. Since they aren't DD5, they still have mass, and weight, and I see no reason the entire effect can't be moved around.

Niven has this thing as a gadget in many of his books and I think this is where they are getting this effect from. An object in no-time is totally invulnerable but that doesn't imply any ancoring. It's the ultimate in spacecraft defense. If you are about to crash, the field turns on, you crash, you come to a halt, and when the field turns off you are moving at the same speed relative to the planet. Unless you accidently crack the planet or are buried you are fine. It also works against Atomic missiles in space. The nuke is going to hit you, you turn on the field, it does, it throws you away, but 10 seconds later the field turns off and you are back in the fight.

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Taken to it's logical conclusion, that means that they are thrown off the planet at thousands of miles a hour as the Earth moves away from them. The actual quote is...

...It allows him to literally to stop time around a specific person or object. That person cannot move or use any powers or Abilities, he does not age and he cannot be affected by (and is unaware of) any outside force, phenomenon or attack while in suspension. (page 228)

The "cannot move" part is next to all the other things they can't do, so they are paralized. Since they aren't DD5, they still have mass, and weight, and I see no reason the entire effect can't be moved around.

Niven has this thing as a gadget in many of his books and I think this is where they are getting this effect from. An object in no-time is totally invulnerable but that doesn't imply any ancoring. It's the ultimate in spacecraft defense. If you are about to crash, the field turns on, you crash, you come to a halt, and when the field turns off you are moving at the same speed relative to the planet. Unless you accidently crack the planet or are buried you are fine. It also works against Atomic missiles in space. The nuke is going to hit you, you turn on the field, it does, it throws you away, but 10 seconds later the field turns off and you are back in the fight.

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yeah right you wish. ::blink They cannot be affected by any phenomena = no outside force. Everything stops and there is no interaction. you may still see them, still touch them, but under no circumstance will you be able to affect them with any force...including applying force to move them. Your statement about being thrown off the planet doesnt hold water since the person is frozen in the moment they were at. Time continues to exist around them yet they remain motionless, invulnerable statues. At least thats the way I see it. I realize that this subject may be somewhat personally for you, since Chronos must also rely on that (IMHO incorrect interpretation of the power) and I am sure individual storytellers will all handle it differently, though I beleive the intent of the power is pretty clear.

,,

You mention taking the idea to its logical conclusion, yet many things that novas do defy logic and comprehension because they are altering reality on one of its most fundamental levels.

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Your statement about being thrown off the planet doesnt hold water since the person is frozen in the moment they were at.

Actually, it's only appears that they would be thrown off the planet. As no force is able to affect them, that would presumably include gravity (which holds them to the planet). Once gravity no longer affects them, he would no longer be held to the planet, and would appear to be thrown off. Note that it was semi-retracted, however...

FR

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Your statement about being thrown off the planet doesnt hold water since the person is frozen in the moment they were at. Time continues to exist around them yet they remain motionless, invulnerable statues.
There is no such thing as "motionless", that's one of the big jokes of Star Trek ("full stop"). I'll say it again, there is no such thing as motionless, there are just different frames of reference.

A rock sitting on your desk is experiencing acceleration from a number of different forces and along a number of different vectors. On of those is Gravity keeping it on the ground. Another is the spin of the Earth. Another is the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. Yet another is the Sun's orbit in the Milky Way, and yet another is the Milky Way's movement as the Universe expands. These are HUGE vectors and huge forces, which act on us every day. If the Time Stop is immune to my pushing on it, why *isn't* it immune to the Earth pushing on it?

Or to put it a different way, if I Time Stop someone on board an Air Plane, does he suddenly rip the plane apart as his momentum and acceleration magically matches that of the Earth? If so, why?

Does he continue moving 600 miles in the same direction no matter where the plane is moving? (If you answer "yes" to this question then you just tossed him off the planet and need to explane why that doesn't happen to someone on the ground).

What happens if I TS a moving car? A person in a moving car?

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There is no such thing as "motionless", that's one of the big jokes of Star Trek ("full stop"). I'll say it again, there is no such thing as motionless, there are just different frames of reference.

A rock sitting on your desk is experiencing acceleration from a number of different forces and along a number of different vectors. On of those is Gravity keeping it on the ground. Another is the spin of the Earth. Another is the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. Yet another is the Sun's orbit in the Milky Way, and yet another is the Milky Way's movement as the Universe expands. These are HUGE vectors and huge forces, which act on us every day. If the Time Stop is immune to my pushing on it, why *isn't* it immune to the Earth pushing on it?

Or to put it a different way, if I Time Stop someone on board an Air Plane, does he suddenly rip the plane apart as his momentum and acceleration magically matches that of the Earth? If so, why?

Does he continue moving 600 miles in the same direction no matter where the plane is moving? (If you answer "yes" to this question then you just tossed him off the planet and need to explane why that doesn't happen to someone on the ground).

What happens if I TS a moving car? A person in a moving car?

,,

Again no offense my friend but I think this is the engineer getting in the way again. Now. First let me say that I appreciate where you are coming from. I myself love the nitty gritty what if science stuff applied to superpowers though in this case I think you are overthinking things. The stopped time person does not get thrown off the earth for the same reason a warp to the sea floor doesn't equalize in pressure but people can step through it like air....they don't because the Nova is creating an effect that breaks all of our standard conceptions.

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Novas manipulate create and negate the three known forces (as well as a fourth, that of pure quanta or "the smallest packets of energy we have a name for (at least until "psions" are discovered in the trinity era ::smile ))

,,

The Nova stops a person in time but because it is based on the frame of reference they dont move. Since you brought up Star Trek I will point out the episode where the romulan warbird and the enterprise get stopped in time and geordi and ro have to figure things out. Actually I think they were the ones displaced in time and had to figure out why, but the effect is a good example. It was like temporarily (temporally) partially displacing something out of the fouth dimension but keeping it anchored to the frame of reference.

,,

Now...does this make sense from a "logical" point of view? NO of course not. But its not supposed to...Its a super-power in a fantasy game. Try and think more cinematically about these things. Otherwise you might hurt yourself tripping over rationality. ::laugh

,,

If its a moving car...it just stops. period. a person in a moving car? car keeps going, person remains frozen in their seat. Id like to hear BNs perspective as an ST on the subject, since powers that break these laws rely heavily on the interpretation of the group in question. Is the group going for nitty gritty real world explanations for everything? Or is it more cinematic, like star trek? Or somewhere in between?

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And what happens when the car stops? Or turns left?
,,

They are frozen in time relative to the car. They are still frozen in their seat. If the car stops or turns left they just sit there with a stupid look on there face, caught in the moment like an ill-timed photograph... ::laugh

,,

I know its a paradox since forces arent supposed to act on them but like I said thats why its a supers game and not a real world game. Technically you are correct in real world terms but I dont think that was the intent of the game designers. So a person in a car stays there and cant be moved from the car since it is the frame of reference for the time stop, just as a person standing remains frozen even though the earth still spins. Its silly to be sure, and the power should have been more appropriately termed (as it is in Rifts) as a relativistic-time-bubble. Time doesn't really stop of course but merely paused....from the initiating novas point of view...

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Technically you are correct in real world terms but I dont think that was the intent of the game designers.
If we are going with the game designers then I think it's a bit of a leap to go from "they can not move" to "they can not be moved". Ditto with they are invulnerable to they can not be moved.

This is especially true since in common fiction there are several examples of this effect that follow the former rules and not the latter, and there simply is no need to introduce this paticular paradox.

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then I think we just figured out how to get rid of Totentanz... ::sly

Maybe... but this could be real dicy since if we just drop him on Mars then he's only stuck there until/unless Anna figures things out and goes to get him back... although if we had a room full of eclipsol then that would make things much easier.

Actually if we have the Eclipsol then there is no need to move him around. We just zap him and put a bucket of the stuff over his head. Now all we need to do is find a Mega-Int 5 Temporal Manip to zap him and hope we win Initiative.

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So let's build a character built on this.

Intuition 5

Mega-Perception 2 (Blind fighting, Q-Attune)

Temporal Manip 3

Mega-Int 5

Matter Creation 3 (for the Eclipsol)

Mega-Wits (Enhanced Init x6)

INV:BC:Physical 4

Mega-Stamina 3 (Regen, Health)

Assorted stats (12 nova points)

Total: 121 Nova points, but we might be able to point shave that down to 90.

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  • 2 weeks later...

That would be a damn hazardous takedown method, though. Totentanz is about as buff as you can be without being Q6, so the quantum seizure could be exceedingly nasty. Not as bad as if you did use it on a Q6: I generally figure Eclipsidol usage on any Q6 or higher would be either ineffective, or apocalyptically destructive.

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That would be a damn hazardous takedown method, though. Totentanz is about as buff as you can be without being Q6, so the quantum seizure could be exceedingly nasty.
Yes, that's a point... hmm.... his powers run wild. This basically means his Q-Leech and Disorient run wild, or maybe even Q-Leap.

I suppose we could build a nuke and drop it on him.

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Yes, that's a point... hmm.... his powers run wild. This basically means his Q-Leech and Disorient run wild, or maybe even Q-Leap.

I suppose we could build a nuke and drop it on him.

I'm almost more worried about the force field. It would be bad if the Q-leech started draining everything quantum in the vicinity, and feeding it to make the force field expand bigger, and bigger, and bigger. . .

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Eclipsodol on a character with ranged Q-Leech strikes me as a very bad idea. Eclipsodol runs for 30 seconds, or until their quantum pool runs out ... and unless they have a butt-load of other powers that burn quantum, they're not going to run out. So at the end of those 30 seconds, they're still going to have juice, possibly more than when they started, and they're going to be awfully pissed at you.

Assuming you're not dead, of course.

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*checks Directive*

Actually, it doesn't quite say anything about a duration of "30 seconds or until all quantum is gone." OTOH, thats a valid interp for with a QLeech character. The alternative is, they suck in qp like a vacuum and expel it in whatever other pyrotechnics they are doing, which would be even worse.

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Actually, it doesn't quite say anything about a duration of "30 seconds or until all quantum is gone."
Page 55: bottom of the right column
A nova's power is wildly out of control for up to 30 seconds, followed by a span of up to five minutes during which the nova is wholly unable to manipulate quantum
Since is says up to, the only thing I can think of that would cause them to vent their pool for a shorter duration is running out of energy. It doesn't address what would happen if they threw Eclipsodol at Totentanz or someone else with a Q-Leech who could still have quantum left over at the end of that 30 seconds. But I'm betting it would be very, very bad. ::devil
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A turn is 3 seconds, so he has 10 turns to burn everything.

T has node 2, so he can spend 10q a turn.

His Q-Leech gives him, what, 9q per activation? So he'll have q at the end of all this.

Other powers that cost juice, Healing, Q-Leap, Quick, Forcefield, Invis, Catfooted, Blindfighting, etc.

Mega-Stats will still be halved. The real question is whether or not he'll be invisible with his forcefield up. I think all powers still drop and he can't spend juice???

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  • 1 year later...

Bumped, because the topic of Totentanz and tactics came up, and there's an obvious trick that got missed:

Time stop him, then have a brick ( Mega Str 4 or higher plus appropriate soak ) grapple his immobile, time stopped form, preferably in a way that prevents him from using his arms at all.

Turn off the time stop, and have brick maintain her hold, preferably while pulling his arms sideways in an attempt to rip them out.

He's only got Mega Str 2, so his ability to escape the grapple is negligible, his soak isn't enough to keep from taking continuous ping damage, Q-Leech won't hinder a brick's ability to maintain grapple, and best of all, everyone else can start taking potshots too.

The main downside is, as always, the setup. You have to find him, and hit him with the time stop first.

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If yo have a TS on him, then just Disin both him and the (immune to Agg damage) Brick, or Warp him out of the solar system.

Time Stop has some real strengths and weaknesses for this. It's resisted so you don't need a "to hit" roll, thus no dodge.

However it's resisted by Willpower and has a +2 Diff to set up, so you'd need 7 succ on your Int+Temporal Manip roll. That's possible, but it's really expensive.

IMHO the best way to deal with him is to just be lucky. He steps in and kills someone else, you nail him with your Disin that he didn't know about. Alternatively there's always Pax & Mal, and considering they're built on the same point scale I don't have a problem with that.

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I'm not so sure Pax is built on the same points as Totentanz, unless you mean "order of magnitude". After all, Pax doesn't just have one or two really high end tricks, he's got a reasonably array of mega attributes, and a well developed kinetic schtick at Q6 levels.

Which is not to disagree that Pax could smash him pretty well; even if Totentanz managed to stealth enough to avoid being attacked ( and Pax is under restrictions in using massive area effect attacks ), and T q-leeches the guy dry. . . he's still a Mega Str 5, Dex 5 brick with more soak than Totentanz can probably ping through. And it would not shock if his force field and flight are entirely cost free, too.

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RE: Pax's Stats (My book isn't handy).

54 points: 18 dots in Megas

54 points: +18 Enhancements

20 points: Skills, Abilities, Backgrounds, Willpower

Powers: Flight, Hypermovement, Forcefield, INV, TK, EM: Kenetic

Just assume 4 dots in each with Mastery, that's 128 points.

Hmm... 256 points

No, wait, +20 for Quantum 7. So call it 286 or 300.

That's a very, VERY rough guess. Although we could shave that a little by making TK a suite power, I wouldn't be shocked at 400. Mal on the other hand takes a thousand or two.

Meaning you're right, Pax and Tot aren't even close.

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The issue with Totentanz isn't just his powers, but that he's also one of the nastiest strategists on the planets. And don't forget that he knows about the ping effect, and has ways to use it (ie, a surprise attack from a nova is not likely to happen against him).

I would obviously suggest a psiad against him, especially one with teleportation. Hopefully the quantum/psi issue wouldn't be bad enough for the psiad to not do anything, and the Psi may actually give him a problem...either that, or lure him in with a nuclear mine....

FR

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What Quantum Senses? Node Ping? Sure, a Psiad wouldn't show up on that. But Blindfighting and Bloodhound would still work.

Basically a Psiad would hit his radar as a baseline. With the right senses maybe Psi could take advantage of that... but T has M-Dex 5 compared to Mr. Psi's M-Dex of zero, and he's got enhanced init. Chances are good even if you get him by surprise he's Still going to go first, and he's not going to bother trying to leech a baseline.

You know... part of our problem here is we're not sure what our operating conditions are. Are we out on a battle field? At a party? Meeting him on a street when he doesn't know we're coming?

T is pretty one dimentional as a character. If we want him at a party we need to have Anna there and him as body guard.

Under those kinds of conditions, a psiad or nova might be able to use social megas against him, or even try the teleport with attune against him (although that might be hard, attune isn't designed as a weapon).

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The other problem is, even with his force field turned off, Totentanz still has something like 12 lethal soak as long as he's wearing his Eufiber. I don't see a psychamorph hauling out enough damage to be meaningful against that ( barring Catabolysis ).

As for the tactical situation, I've generally been assuming "Open field critical battle", which is to say, lots of chaos and stuff going on, and an objective that both you and Totentanz have to fulfill, so meaningful retreat is not an option. Its hardly the only, or the most likely, scenario, I just assume it because thats the only circumstance we've ever seen the guy in.

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Well then... I think the cheapest options involve Q6 and Mastery.

Short of that, getting really lucky almost needs to be involved.

Short of that... to build a character who could actually beat him in a fair fight...

Blind Fighting (To negate Invis and allow a fair fight)

INV: Q-Leech

Sensory Shield: To deal with Disorient (SS is pretty weak if it doesn't and Disorient has no counters otherwise).

INV: BC: Physical 3+ (this might be low)

Regen

Flight (you need a movement power or he'll hit and then be out of range)

Disin.

M-Dex 5

Eufiber 5

Probably Quick

I think this guy could pretty consistantly beat Tot. He's got one Maint power (Flight) which puts him out of reach and lets him close (with Quick).

That's 51 nova points, but with Quantum and other stats he'd probably come to 70

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Well then... I think the cheapest options involve Q6 and Mastery.

Short of that, getting really lucky almost needs to be involved.

Short of that... to build a character who could actually beat him in a fair fight...

Blind Fighting (To negate Invis and allow a fair fight)

INV: Q-Leech

Sensory Shield: To deal with Disorient (SS is pretty weak if it doesn't and Disorient has no counters otherwise).

INV: BC: Physical 3+ (this might be low)

Regen

Flight (you need a movement power or he'll hit and then be out of range)

Disin.

M-Dex 5

Eufiber 5

Probably Quick

I think this guy could pretty consistantly beat Tot. He's got one Maint power (Flight) which puts him out of reach and lets him close (with Quick).

That's 51 nova points, but with Quantum and other stats he'd probably come to 70

Hmm. . . yeah, that'd do it. His only option is leaping up to your position and whacking you several times in midair, but while he *could* do that, its doubtful he could do enough damage before you hit him with Disintegrate.

If i were Totentanz, I'd respond to this guy by ducking behind other people on the battlefield repeatedly, and hoping for the best.

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Er...I know this is perhaps a silly point, but doesn't T carry around a pair of spears, which are designed to be, well, thrown? And aren't they designed to take into account his Mega-Str? Of course, that's ignoring him just tossing things at the flyer...

I still say a psiad with teleportation acting innocent...

FR

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Er...I know this is perhaps a silly point, but doesn't T carry around a pair of spears, which are designed to be, well, thrown? And aren't they designed to take into account his Mega-Str? Of course, that's ignoring him just tossing things at the flyer...
True, but that's why we need a soak high enough to only suffer ping damage. Of course we could be suffering it 5 times a round so it's a problem even so. Maybe we should have 2 dots of M-Stam (extra regen, reduced dice penalties, extra health level), and an extra Brused level or three.
I still say a psiad with teleportation acting innocent...
You're doing 4 things. There's a fair amount of room for things to go wrong. On the other hand this is a *MUCH* cheaper alternative so the entrance fee is lower.

1) You have to remain hidden from him (or at least not noticed as a paranormal). He's got Mega-Perception 2, he might notice that you're not afraid of him by the way you smell. This might be eliminated by the situation, say he's on bodyguard duty and you're trying to shake his hand or something.

2 to 4) You have to touch him (Dex contest, maybe you can situationally by passed), Attune him (Psi vs. Q+Node?), and Use Teleport (Teleport + M-Perception vs. Willpower?)

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Actually, psiads don't need to attune the target (they could have bought Teleport with Usable on Others, which makes it a simple touch, and we are building this guy to take on T, right?). And, as far as the "smell of fear" is concerned, it makes no sense (psychopaths don't feel fear (which you need to be to go up against T), or that he isn't adding material to his pants (which is bloody unlikely).

The touch is a bit more of an issue, and even if it was bought ranged you would still have the problem of hitting him. However, I'm sure a decent player could work around that problem (using Warp, maybe?).

Of course, this is assuming that the psiad is an abbie wannabe; make it a psion-wannabe instead, and I think it would be simplified a bit...

FR

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Actually, psiads don't need to attune the target (they could have bought Teleport with Usable on Others, which makes it a simple touch, and we are building this guy to take on T, right?).
I think you mean "useable against others", but the rest of your post is valid, you've dropped my list of 4 down to 2. You need touch and you need to overcome whatever resistance he has (probably Willpower vs. Teleport + Perception).

Touch is hard... but we are talking about someone who hits the radar as a baseline so maybe not impossible. Teleport + Perception is somewhat easier since he can have Mega-Perception 2... but he's going to need to spend a point of willpower for an auto.

Next question is, where are you going to take him?

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This tactic also requires that the psiad get within melee range of Totentanz without being attacked and killed. On a battlefield, thats not even close to easy: the natural inclination is either to kill any hostile who comes within reach, or move. And if Totentanz is moving, I don't see a psiad catching up without using obvious powers that make him a target.

Or, to boil it down: I don't see someone with superhuman senses missing that an enemy is intentionally trying to touch him. . . and I don't see someone with superhuman tactical genius noticing that without realizing that maybe letting the guy touch you is a bad idea.

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