Aberrant: XWF tournament

[AnonCastillo]

Is anyone interested in starting a mostly fighting-oriented game, say in the form of an XWF tournament?

Here's my idea: Characters will be pitted against each other primarily in 1v1 matches (depending on the number of people, we may do the occasional FFA). Set the matches up in the style of a double elimination tournament: all characters will get a match for the first two rounds, randomly assigned (possibly rearranged slightly to keep people from fighting the same person twice in a row). Once you've lost two matches, you're out. Since this is the XWF, characters should be battle-hardened veterans, so during character creation the player will get to assign somewhere from 60-150 XP (I think 100 sounds like a good amount, but we'll see). Each match nets 10 XP for a win, 5 for a loss.

However, these matches may not be pure combat - after all, watching two novas spar in a boxing ring would be rather boring compared to giving them a large arena with obstacles, weapons, etc.; besides, many abilities and powers wouldn't get any use in too normal of a setting. For example, an indoor arena would give few opportunities for the use of powers like weather manipulation, nature mastery, or most elemental animas. However, an outdoor arena loses some opportunities that, say, a maze with traps and security systems offers to characters with engineering and demolitions abilities, or intuition, magnetic mastery, and cyberkinesis abilities. Even some abilities related to combat - say, piloting and heavy weaponry - depend on what's available to the characters.

So, rather than just a single, plain arena, I hope to develop 6-10 different "scenarios" for characters to fight in. As each match is randomly set, one of the scenarios will be randomly selected for characters. Once character sheets are all in, hopefully we can develop scenarios where every ability has an available use in some scenario (though not necessarily in all of them - that's the luck of the draw, and also why I hope to do double elimination rather than single in case someone starts on an unbalanced scenario). So, say someone does put points into pilot and heavy weapons: one of the scenarios could have two tanks available to players. The character who has the abilities necessary to use one would have an advantage over a nova based entirely around brute strength. Sure, most characters could pick the tank up and throw it (if not with mega-strength, then with telekinesis or similar), some may be able to animate it by properly applying cyberkinesis or molecular mastery or some such, but a character with unique abilities may gain a unique advantage on a scenario like that and have another nova half dead before their tank is destroyed. Hopefully we can find similar situations for most abilities and powers (though some social powers may not have as much application in an arena), although hopefully most XWF participants will have primarily combat-oriented powers.

There may be room for team matches, as well. I can certainly see Team Teragen vs. T2M, but more opportunities are available; I can see BN talking a couple other players into submitting a SGE team if the situation arises, what with all the free advertising they'd get for winning. But it's probably best if we start with a 1v1/ffa tournament first.

However, to do this, I'll need at least one more ST and preferably two more. First of all because I've never run an Aberrant game before (or any other white wolf game), so it will be nice to have some help on the rules. Second, because I'll want to submit a character myself, and it would be a bit unfair if I ST my own battles. If we have three STs, and two of them get pitted against each other, then we can have the neutral party run the fight. Third, that way we can run multiple fights at a time, so nobody's sitting on the sidelines for two weeks or more while combat takes place.

Anyone interested in playing, STing, or have any suggestions?

[phoenix]

That sounds really interesting. I volunteer to ST and probably play, depending on how quickly I get inspiration.

[Alex Green]

::thumbup

[BlueNinja]

I'll ST as well as play. Any limit to the number of PCs you can throw in the ring? Two would seem to be a good limit, though if they get pitted against each other then the 'owner' should hand over the reins to someone else for that match.

Just wait until Mr. Bleedalot makes his appearance in the ring. ::devil

[archer]

Ooooooooh. Me like. And with summer coming up, I might actually be able to play. Count me tentatively in.

::biggrin

[phoenix]

That's three STs. Shall I advertise on Ian's LJ community and RPG.net, to see how many players we can get in this thing?

[Nullifier]

I'll play, and ST if you need it. ::biggrin

[AnonCastillo]

I'll ST as well as play. Any limit to the number of PCs you can throw in the ring? Two would seem to be a good limit, though if they get pitted against each other then the 'owner' should hand over the reins to someone else for that match.

Just wait until Mr. Bleedalot makes his appearance in the ring. ::devil

I'm thinking it should primarily be 1v1 battles with most (if not all) of the competitors being PCs. If we occasionally have 3 PCs in an ffa, no problem as long as there's at least one ST not in the fight to run things. If we want to do team matches at some point, maybe 4 or 6 at most, but let's wait before planning anything bigger than 3.

I am designing two characters in case we need an NPC (like if we have an odd number of PCs), but hopefully we won't, because the one I will probably make an NPC would just be too painful.

And Mr. Bleedalot ain't got nuthin on Ferrous (also known as MC Square).

That's three STs. Shall I advertise on Ian's LJ community and RPG.net, to see how many players we can get in this thing?

Sure, but let's set a maximum of 16 players (and 8 is probably ideal).

[BlueNinja]

I'm thinking it should primarily be 1v1 battles with most (if not all) of the competitors being PCs. If we occasionally have 3 PCs in an ffa, no problem as long as there's at least one ST not in the fight to run things. If we want to do team matches at some point, maybe 4 or 6 at most, but let's wait before planning anything bigger than 3.

I didn't mean to put in the battle at the same time, but rather, that players who want to try out two different ideas can throw two different PCs into the ranking. With three or four STs, we can easily run three or four simultaneous combats (at least in the early stages).

Speaking of which, we'll hvae to figure out how the PCs get paired off, and how to handle the arenas themselves, as well as which ST handles each combat.

[SkyLion]

Hmmm..y'all have piqued my interest. Im mostly here for the IC stuff, but this sounds like some good clean fun and it would give me a chance to try out some of my more nutter ideas. I have an interest in STing as well if I have the time.

[AnonCastillo]

I didn't mean to put in the battle at the same time, but rather, that players who want to try out two different ideas can throw two different PCs into the ranking. With three or four STs, we can easily run three or four simultaneous combats (at least in the early stages).

Speaking of which, we'll hvae to figure out how the PCs get paired off, and how to handle the arenas themselves, as well as which ST handles each combat.

Oh, number of PCs per person.... I was going to limit it to 1 per person, with the occasional ST-run NPC if necessary. If we let people enter with multiple characters, there's the possibility of someone having to fight themselves if enough other people are eliminated.

The first round should be random pairings. Second round, the winners should be paired off against each other and the losers should be paired off against each other. If there are 8 players, that would leave 2 people with 0 losses, 4 people with 1 loss, and 2 people with 2 losses being eliminated. For round three, there'd be 4 survivors, 3 with 1 loss each and one undefeated, so randomly pair them off against each other. If 2 people are eliminated, then it's a simple 1v1 (or two, if the undefeated player is defeated the first time); if only one person is eliminated, the three survivors would all have 1 loss each, so pit them in a 3-way FFA for the title.

[Nullifier]

I see what you're thinking, Anon, but what about after we have a big winner? It'd be fun to see different people's takes on the various themes out there, and if we have 3 or 4 STs running multiple PCs per person shouldn't be too difficult so long as people used different colors for their different PCs posts.

Besides which, even in the XWF there are three circles depending on damage causing and taking ability, to keep people from getting killed too often you know. That might be a good idea here, and if you do decide to categorize the various fighters, it'd be nice to be allowed one PC per category/circle. That would also solve the problem of people fighting themselves, incidentally.

Just my 2cents. ::biggrin

[AnonCastillo]

I see what you're thinking, Anon, but what about after we have a big winner? It'd be fun to see different people's takes on the various themes out there, and if we have 3 or 4 STs running multiple PCs per person shouldn't be too difficult so long as people used different colors for their different PCs posts.

Besides which, even in the XWF there are three circles depending on damage causing and taking ability, to keep people from getting killed too often you know. That might be a good idea here, and if you do decide to categorize the various fighters, it'd be nice to be allowed one PC per category/circle. That would also solve the problem of people fighting themselves, incidentally.

Just my 2cents. ::biggrin

Having three different categories means running three different tournaments at a time, and that might get a bit unwieldy. I see your point, but for now I think we're better off starting small with one PC per person. If the first tournament is popular and a lot more people want in, we can always expand at a later point and run multiple tournaments and let people have 1 PC per tournament if they wish. For now, let's start simple and expand as we go.

Anyway, this week is finals week, so I may not get around to discussing rules, scenarios, etc. with the other STs until after friday (although I might have enough free time tomorrow, we'll see). Once I have time, I'll write up my basic design ideas and send them to BN to forward to phoenix and nullifier (you have both their email addresses, right?).

[BlueNinja]

Anyway, this week is finals week, so I may not get around to discussing rules, scenarios, etc. with the other STs until after friday (although I might have enough free time tomorrow, we'll see). Once I have time, I'll write up my basic design ideas and send them to BN to forward to phoenix and nullifier (you have both their email addresses, right?).

Somewhere, aye.

[SkyLion]

Sometimes people move up through the "circles".....

Oh! And we musn't forget a separate out-of-the-ring IC smack-talking forum!!!!

"...and thats a damn fact!"

::biggrin

[Alex Green]

We need to pick a circle.

Or else we could have 6 characters, but only have 2 per circle.

[SkyLion]

I like the idea of having more than one circle so someone could concievably "run the triple-crown."

[BlueNinja]

I think Anon's right; at least for the first tournament, all characters are thrown into the same circle, to compete at random against everyone else. If it all goes well, we can branch out to having more circles (ie, silver red + black).

Depending on the number of competitors submitted, each ST can submit 1-2 'arenas' each, with their own challenges/advantages/drawbacks. I can think of two off the top of my head. The only limitations is that the arena should not be lethal to the competitors if they got tossed inside without an opponent (ie, no ammonia atmpospheres for PCs with no adaptability, no bottomless pit for PCs without flight, etc) But no warmup fights against miteoids (unless it's like 10-1, which might be interesting).

Oh, and definately a thread to play up the outrageous bluffs, bragging, and threats that go on between the contestants. ::happy

[SkyLion]

How many NP's we talkin' for chargen??? (Assuming it depends on circle...)

[BlueNinja]

How many NP's we talkin' for chargen??? (Assuming it depends on circle...)

I think Anon is going to do it similar to Trans-D style; 30NP plus a fixed amount of XP to spend. He says 100, I think that's a bit much, but I guess we'll see. ::smile Not like he listens to me anyway. ::tongue

[SkyLion]

I think Anon is going to do it similar to Trans-D style; 30NP plus a fixed amount of XP to spend. He says 100, I think that's a bit much, but I guess we'll see. ::smile Not like he listens to me anyway. ::tongue

,,

I think its a bit more wieldly to just up NPs along the guidlines of the APG. No multipliers etc. 100 NP's would be a bit much though.

[BlueNinja]

I think its a bit more wieldly to just up NPs along the guidlines of the APG. No multipliers etc. 100 NP's would be a bit much though.

You mean hand out 40-50NP? Hmm ... I dunno, I guess we can talk it out in here.

[AnonCastillo]

You mean hand out 40-50NP? Hmm ... I dunno, I guess we can talk it out in here.

The problem with making it nova points instead of XP is that NP make it so much cheaper to max out mega-atts and high-level powers (although I suppose that would make it interesting....). I want a well-rounded nova with half a dozen medium-level mega-atts and powers to stand just as much of a chance as a nova with maxed out mega-str, mega-dex, and mega-stam, and XP makes it more affordable for someone to throw a few points into each attribute and a few powers, rather than maxing out a handful of atts and powers.

100 XP might seem like a bit much, but I've created 2 sample characters and it doesn't seem that bad so far (although I admit that I haven't seen much nova combat). Assuming the character min/maxes their quantum up with bonus points, they can get three fully maxed mega attributes (assuming they maxed 2 out with their starting ability points and maxed another out with a nova point) with 0 taint and 9 xp or so left for other things, or max out a fourth with 5 or so taint. Admittedly 3-4 maxed out mega-atts or level 2 abilities is significant power, but this is the XWF we're talking about; they're going to try to recruit powerful novas to make the fights exciting for the cameras. They're also expecting the novas in this tournament to have pretty powerful defenses (mega-stamina, armor, force field, bodymorph, etc., preferably multiple defenses, at least one with no quantum cost), so a rather large amount of xp may be necessary to buy the defenses necessary to survive an XWF fight and still have enough left over to have offensive capability as well. I'll be discussing the XP limit with the other STs before we start the game; I know 60 is going to be too low for what I envision, but maybe 75-80 will turn out to be enough (especially with the XP bonuses after each combat).

Also, I went ahead and got the XWF book from drivethrurpg.com and have been skimming it as I write up a design doc for the game (which I've started, should be able to email it to the other STs tomorrow if I have time to finish it). I'll try to compare the relative power levels of the novas in there to my sample characters and see how much XP is necessary for a red circle or so tournament.

[Alex Green]

100 XP might seem like a bit much, but I've created 2 sample characters and it doesn't seem that bad so far

::laugh

Black Circle then I take it?

[EDIT]Ah, you said Red. What is the damage limit on Red?[/EDIT]

[AnonCastillo]

::laugh

Black Circle then I take it?

Just got the XWF book today, and I think rather than making it a specific circle (although I imagine about red circle strength) it'll be an invitational tournament mainly for non-XWF novas as a publicity stunt. Imagine if Count Orzaiz were invited to a tournament.

[BlueNinja]

Imagine if Count Orzaiz were invited to a tournament.

He'd look very good the entire time he was getting his ass handed to him. ::biggrin

[Nullifier]

100 xp is actually a rather large amount. Red Circle is about 15-20hl of damage (take/dish out), with exceptions. Black circle is 20+ routinely. I think that at 100xp for anyone who'd be willing to fight in a match you're talking black circle almost certainly. Having seen nova level combat, I can tell you that if you can't soak upwards of 20+ routinely you're in trouble anyhow. As for dishing out that much, Mega-Str 3, Mega-Dex 3, Claws 3 routinely dishes out more than that, and that's starting character stuff for combat oriented PCs. That's only 21NPs w/o taint, in case you're counting, leaving 9NPs for other stuff to round out the character, and that's without the 100xp.

[BlueNinja]

Well, while the ultimate combat junkie might win, I know Anon and I are hoping for some more off-the-wall characters to make good showings in the rings. Most, if not all, of the arenas will be filled with various quirks and situations that can turn the tide for a not-strictly-combat-oriented person. Plus there's always the chance for a wacky Dominator/Mental Blast nova to win. ::smile

As for me, I think the first character I'll be throwing into the ring is Kevin "Coup de Grace" Smith, the retired undefeated Red Circle champion from the last year!

[SkyLion]

Oh! You mean IceCube! Hope he doesn't melt under the pressure...

,,

(Yep! The smack talking has already begun! ::devil ::tongue ::ultracool )

[Alex Green]

I'd like to suggest using the Black Circle. ::ultracool

[Nullifier]

Well, while the ultimate combat junkie might win, I know Anon and I are hoping for some more off-the-wall characters to make good showings in the rings.

Um, right, here's the thing: at 100xp, you don't have to even be close to a combat junkie to dish out and soak Black Circle level damage. That was the point I was trying to make. All my non-combat junkie characters are Black Circle worthy by 100xp just by virtue of having lived through 100xp worth of adventures. ::brick ::ultracool

[archer]

I'd like to suggest using the Black Circle. ::ultracool

Since I'm not fortunate enough to have the XWF book, can someone explain the different circles to me?

[SkyLion]

Since I'm not fortunate enough to have the XWF book, can someone explain the different circles to me?

,,

Sure! There are three circles: silver, red and black

,,

Silver circle hosts the less "powerful" characters though they are still deadly! Many of these fighters rely on superior skill as well as speed. Consequently these can be some of the most dramatic matchups, superspeed, aerial combat and kung-fu hustling.

Red circle contenders tend to be more powerful than their silver fellows though not quite at the raw level that dictates Black. It also tends to be the most eclectic in terms of variety of powers displayed. Just about anything could show up.

The Black circle is reserved for the heavies. Mega Atts and powers at 5. Massive soak and damage potential. Tends to focus on raw power over skill. The Champion of the Black Circle is considered the overall XWF Champion.

,,

A contender must work their way up through one of the circles, and defeat the number one contender to the title to qualify for a title bout. The Champion of each circle is considered the top contender for the title of the next higher circle. If you lose a title match, you have to work your way back up through the ranks.

,,

Successfully winning the silver, challenging and winning red, then black is called "running the triple crown."

,,

These rules aren't strong or fast however, as the people running the show care most about ratings. Sometimes someone from a lower circle will ambush a higher circle competitor (with cameras nearby to capture the "fight"). While this results in fines for the offender, it can generate enough public interest in the "bad blood" for the owners to grant the upstart a title bout...

[Alex Green]

The three circles exist to stop the novas from killing each other and to make matches interesting.

For example, the Silver Circle champ probably is a much better fighter than Core.... except that she can't hurt him and will die if he ever hits her.

A guy called Torr decides what circle you are in, and this is a guideline more than a hard and fast rule.

Red & Black can have lethal attacks, Silver can not. Aggro is banned from the league. The XWF tries to match lethal fighters against each other in a 'live by the sword' sort of thing.

(I think) Red is soak/attack of 15-20. Black is more than that, Silver is less.

The XWF does NOT like 'boring' attack/defenses.

[archer]

I get all the circles now, thanks guys. Matter of fact, I'd completely forgotten that I actually have the XWF book, it was just stashed away. So now I have one, yay me!

Based on the NPCs listed in the XWF book, I think 100 XP is overpowered. If you look at the listed notable traits for people like Duke 'Core' Baron and Superbeast, my guess is that they're nowhere near 30 NP plus 100 XP.

Not sure how comfortable I am with having PCs that can shatter the XWF Champion in a round or two.

On a completely unrelated note...what do you folks think of the mechanic for Attuning a weapon so it doesn't break when used with M-Str? Obviously the weapon can't weigh more than 100kg(the limit of Attunement), but other than that, I don't see a problem with it.

[SkyLion]

I get all the circles now, thanks guys. Matter of fact, I'd completely forgotten that I actually have the XWF book, it was just stashed away. So now I have one, yay me!

Based on the NPCs listed in the XWF book, I think 100 XP is overpowered. If you look at the listed notable traits for people like Duke 'Core' Baron and Superbeast, my guess is that they're nowhere near 30 NP plus 100 XP.

Not sure how comfortable I am with having PCs that can shatter the XWF Champion in a round or two.

On a completely unrelated note...what do you folks think of the mechanic for Attuning a weapon so it doesn't break when used with M-Str? Obviously the weapon can't weigh more than 100kg(the limit of Attunement), but other than that, I don't see a problem with it.

,,

,,

It's clobberin' time! What? No lamp posts?

[Nullifier]

Hmm... Actually, Core's around 100xp, 30NP, but everyone else is probably less than that, from looking over his stats, it seems that way, anyhow (about 75NP total). The closest two to that at around 50NP a piece give or take are Superbeast and The Demon King. That's in the area of 60-70XP, give or take. So, I dunno, but I can tell you that at 100xp all the PCs will be at least the equal of Core, and superior to just about everyone else.

[SkyLion]

That depends on whether or not you min-max your Nova ponts. Getting those 5th dots like core has will drain your xp pretty quick, especially if you didn't have 4 to begin with. Anyone have the math breakdown?

[Alex Green]

OK, I've got a draft of a character, I think he's a lot more black circle than red. It's hard enough to avoid that I suggest we not bother.

Basically I'm going to have a mitoid who erupts in the ring. It'd be kind of cool if he was fighting the silver ring champ at the time, but that sounds hokey so I'll make it a more normal nova fight.

[SkyLion]

OK, I've got a draft of a character, I think he's a lot more black circle than red. It's hard enough to avoid that I suggest we not bother.

Basically I'm going to have a mitoid who erupts in the ring. It'd be kind of cool if he was fighting the silver ring champ at the time, but that sounds hokey so I'll make it a more normal nova fight.

,,

Thats a cool premises for a character. Poster-boy for hopeful mitoids everywhere! The XWF warms up champs against "upstart" mitoid contenders all the time, such as one of the published scenarios in the booklet. So the idea of him erupting in a "title-bout" would truly cause an uproar and get killer ratings and notoriety for you right off the bat. It sound pretty bomb diggity to me! Bravo! ::laugh