opnet [OpNet] Can science explain what Novas do?

[Walker]

I had this interesting thought the other day. What sparked it off was considering my own power to talk with plants... how is that possible, my biology is pretty good and I know scientifically that plants have no central nervous system let alone a brain? How then are we able to communicate with each other? Then I started thinking about other Nova powers, my own and in general. I did a bit of checking up on the latest scientific theories but none of them seem to hold much water on close inspection. There are some fancy labels such as Quantum Bolt, but given it's myriad forms is such a label an explanation? Or does it mean as much as psychosomatic or placebo. I guess the question i'm asking everyone here is

Do you think science can ever fully explain what it is that Novas do?

Which also begs the question

If not, what sort of explantion can/could explain what Novas do? Metaphysical, Spiritual, Religious?

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts on this.

[Prof. Sydney 'Photon' Holland]

Well, there are numerous explanations for plants appearing sentient. For one thing, it may be that plants don't have a central nervous command, but distribute the brain power throughout the whole body (A slightly better way of doing it, if you don't mind the slower processing speed). So, while we don't see anything that resembles what we consider nervous systems, plants may have circumnvented that.

Most Quantum capabilities can be explained somehow through scientific measures, if only in terms of the precise Quantum Force being manipulated. Theoretically, any event that has a probability higher than 0 is an event that a nova can duplicate, with sufficient manipulation of the quantum forces. The problem always is that that particular event needs to be in the purview of a nova's mental power set (because a lot of theories speculate that's all it is - a deliberate mental block on behalf of the nova so that s/he isn't overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options availiabe to him).

So, if there is a probability higher than 0 of a plant talking back to you, you're likely manipulating quantum energies so the plant can indeed do that.

Aren't nova powers grand?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Or maybe (no offense) you are just talking to yourself. Some people get visions of the future/past/present. Maybe you are just interpreting information you gain from your Q powers as coming from plants.

What do plants say?

[Liam VanGilder]

It is true that science can explain nova powers, as much as it can explain anyhting. Also, while I won't fault Prof. Holland's explanation I would point out that it is only one way of interpreting the matter.

As someone whose own abilities centre to some extent around the manipulation of probabilities there is a deeper level at work in the use of nova powers.

Before the nova age, the term quantumn referred to sufficiently small scale on which events occur. This scale is imperceptible to normal baseline senses and even to most nova ones. And, as our assumptions about the behaviour of the world change as we approach the speed of light, so do they change when dealing with the world on a quantum level.

Much of what we take as fundamental facts of reality; the solidity of matter, the smooth flow of space and energy, do not exist on a quantum level. For baselines at least, much of how reality actually functions is hidden by a screen of coincidences and inaccurate approximations that make up the macroscopic world they live in. On a quantum level the appearance of teleoprtation is a given fact. So, almost all of what we do as novas can be explained by the fact that our M-R node somehow allows us to apply a force for change directly to this level of true reality rather than through the crude, indirect means that baselines must emply to deal with the world.

The truly frightening implication of our powers is not their nearly unlimited scope. It is instead that fact that to achieve some of the effects that novas are able to, the amount of power applied on the quantum scale would have to verge on infinite. Each and every nova in the world appears to have the power to tap into a source of power that makes the blazing nuclear fury of our sun seem little more than a candle flame by comparison.

And so does my answer, begun in the intent of strict science, cross the border in to the spiritual. If we can learn to grow past our own limited view of our abilities we have both the skill and the power to be gods in the truest sense of the word. At that point, the Big Bang is nothing more than another "quantum power".

Sometimes, at night, I pray that I am wrong about these things. I fear that I am not.

[ 09-13-2002: Message edited by: Liam VanGilder ]

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Liam VanGilder:
The truly frightening implication of our powers is not their nearly unlimited scope. It is instead that fact that to achieve some of the effects that novas are able to, the amount of power applied on the quantum scale would have to verge on infinite. Each and every nova in the world appears to have the power to tap into a source of power that makes the blazing nuclear fury of our sun seem little more than a candle flame by comparison.

I have to respond to this. I understand what you are saying, but my guess is that what we do is "smoke and mirrors" or stage magic.

Not that our powers are fake, but I've seen stage magic where the magician lifts cars and such. One explaination is that he is really really strong. Another is that there is a forklift hiden behind the stage which is secretly helping him.

The first explaination might tend to suport the idea that he could become a true force on the world stage. The second is reality. Somewhere out there is the equivalent to the forklift that novas use. Science hasn't found it yet, but it is out there.

The magician seems much less godlike after you know exactly how he does it.

[Walker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Prof. Sydney 'Photon' Holland:
Well, there are numerous explanations for plants appearing sentient ...
Theoretically, any event that has a probability higher than 0 is an event that a nova can duplicate, with sufficient manipulation of the quantum forces. The problem always is that that particular event needs to be in the purview of a nova's mental power set (because a lot of theories speculate that's all it is - a deliberate mental block on behalf of the nova so that s/he isn't overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options availiabe to him).

So, if there is a probability higher than 0 of a plant talking back to you, you're likely manipulating quantum energies so the plant can indeed do that.

Aren't nova powers grand?

The interesting thing here is that there is actually a greater than 0% chance of it happening. I presume you've heard of the Anthropomorphic Principle in cosmology? For those that haven't, in brief, one of it's suggestions is that the universe develops observers (in this case man) in order to explain itself into being. Without wanting to delve too deeply into the quantum theory behind this, it is a scientific fact that an observer changes the thing he/she/it interacts with, at least on a quantum (microscopic) level, the well known thought experiment of Schroedingers Cat is an example of this. It seems to me that Nova powers can acheive, not just a collapse of the quantum wave function, but an expansion of its properties (sorry for the jargon to the non scienceminded). It seems like Nova minds can amplify the quantum up to the macroscopic level of everyday life. And you mention that the theories speculate that it's only a mental block that stop us doing anything we want at all, maybe that mental block is our tendency towards rational, scientific thinking?

Quote:

Or maybe (no offense) you are just talking to yourself. Some people get visions of the future/past/present. Maybe you are just interpreting information you gain from your Q powers as coming from plants.
What do plants say?

Well Dr Smith this wasn't something that I hadn't considered as such. When I communicate with plants I hear the voices in my head speaking English. I do not suppose that all plants understand English, though that may be the explantion, I assume that I interpret information from the plants and then my own mind, or node, or whatever, presents the information in a form I can understand. It may very well be that the plants have no inherent ability to communicate and I 'drag' the information out of them. But... individual species of plants have different personalities in the same way that a dog's core personality is different from a cat's. Am I making up this personality? The fact is that most times plants can be very cryptic when 'talking' so the translation isn't quite complete. I asked your question to a 700 year old Oak tree who told me, "there is no truth in such a thought, there is no line of that shape, (here I beleive it was refering to the idea of linear past, present and future) all things share in spirit." Some plants at least, seem to believe that everything can communicate in the universe.

Quote:

It is true that science can explain nova powers, as much as it can explain anyhting. Also, while I won't fault Prof. Holland's explanation I would point out that it is only one way of interpreting the matter ...
The truly frightening implication of our powers is not their nearly unlimited scope. It is instead that fact that to achieve some of the effects that novas are able to, the amount of power applied on the quantum scale would have to verge on infinite. Each and every nova in the world appears to have the power to tap into a source of power that makes the blazing nuclear fury of our sun seem little more than a candle flame by comparison.

And so does my answer, begun in the intent of strict science, cross the border in to the spiritual. If we can learn to grow past our own limited view of our abilities we have both the skill and the power to be gods in the truest sense of the word. At that point, the Big Bang is nothing more than another "quantum power".

Very interesting point's. After all Science is mearly a map of the world, all-be-it a very good one. It is not actual reality and may not even be a description of reality, it's a product of the Human/Nova brain. The explanations that Science comes up with for Nova powers sound would dismissed just 15 years ago as, quantum mysticism and fuzzy unscientific thinking. If nova's hadn't shown up I'd lay money that scientists would still be thinking in the old way.

Quote:

The first explaination might tend to suport the idea that he could become a true force on the world stage. The second is reality. Somewhere out there is the equivalent to the forklift that novas use. Science hasn't found it yet, but it is out there.

The magician seems much less godlike after you know exactly how he does it.

I agree with this to a point, to continue the forklift analogy, the point is... if you don't know how to drive a forklift how can you use it to achieve such a presise effect? I think we've just come up with a new Scientific theory, lets call it the Smith Blind Forklift Driver Hypothesis, hey maybe you'll get a Noble Prize if you can figure out where this energy comes from? A parallel universe with infinite energy density, forward in time from the big bang?

[Sakurako Hino]

If indeed, our powers influence reality, don't we cause damage from our power's use? There must be some sort of barrier that gets all shredded when we throw the juice around, right? At least, if this question's true. Perhaps this question is left for philosophers...

[Jager]

No. Science can explain some of the effects, but not the underlying cause of why we do what we do. Not yet, anyway.

Personally, I think we do thinks that can't be done and taint is nature's way of saying, "Bad doggie."

That's the kindergarten cliff notes version, anyway.

[Walker]

The idea of a barrier that gets broken and there being a backlash could well explain taint and aberration. If every other thing in the universe 'conspires' to keep said universe running according to the laws of reality do Nova powers violating that universal conspirisy cause damage? Does the Magicians Forklift leave tracks?

If taint is the price we Nova's pay for power, does it also have an effect on the environment around us? I can't think of any examples... except maybe that would explain Galatea or Sao Paulo or the mysterious 'dead zone' in Calcutta that I've noticed in the locale of a certain notable person's death.

[Cin]

It IS possible for a nova to live a very long life, using her powers and NEVER get any Taint. Taint comes from pushing yourself too far is various ways. You channel too much Quantum for you body to handle and so some gets left behind because you could not channel it all as effectively. Too much of anything in your system is bad for you.

Just because you're a nova with powers does not mean Taint is an inevitability.

[Walker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cin:

Just because you're a nova with powers does not mean Taint is an inevitability.

I agree, not inevitable, but you seem to agree with me that taint/aberration is some kind of backlash.

Does any one disagree that taint is some kind of 'reminder from mother nature'? I'm thinking here that maybe certain Terats might, if so what's your explanation and how do you feel about the science vs. supernature debate in relation to Novas?

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cin:
It IS possible for a nova to live a very long life, using her powers and NEVER get any Taint. Taint comes from pushing yourself too far is various ways. You channel too much Quantum for you body to handle and so some gets left behind because you could not channel it all as effectively. Too much of anything in your system is bad for you.

Just because you're a nova with powers does not mean Taint is an inevitability.

A very long life? And what do you base this on? How many Novas do you know that have been so for more than a little less than two decades?

I'm not saying you're wrong, merely that you are making suppositions based on insufficience evidence.

[Sakurako Hino]

Hmmm. Yeah, taint could be that "backlash". Back in pre-nova days, the wicca have a philosophy that now seems to apply now. That which you do comes back to you 3 fold. That's ANYTHING. The Shinto faith has similar things to it's philosophy. Something I discovered, is that there is a belief among those of the Shinto faith is that evil is a disease. Perhaps, although this is a long-shot, that taint is a disease of novas who grasp for power too quickly? Looking at this, I now scared of what that little peice of grey flesh is doing to me. How far do I take it, before I get the "payback" for my deeds? Or am I just being paranoid?

[Roslyn 'Pump' Kluesner]

I am pretty sure you are being paranoid. As long as you do not push yourself too far too fast, you ought to be alright. Just know your limits and use your head.

[Sakurako Hino]

I can honestly say I have been pushing somewhat harder. I have maxed out at least three different times in recent history. Now I may have not "caught" anything, I can imagine things will catch up to me sooner or later.

[Jordan]

Since I began studying the principles of Quantum energy theory, and due to a few odd "discoveries" outside the lab environment, I have come up with a little theory of my own.

Bare with me on this 'cause I hate technobabble. Okay, the basic theory is this. On some level beyond what science has been able to percieve, there is a, map (for lack of a better word), of reality. This map tells everything in this reality how it is suppose to behave and react with everything else and no, it not Quantum. Lets call this map Order.

Quantum we know, is an actual energy wave. One that we have only recently begun to percieve, measure and identify thanks to the existance of Novas. We know that Quantum energy has some sort of "dominance" or "control" of the 4 universal elements and indeed may even be the elusive 5 element that scientists are always looking for. It has also been linked to another concept, Probability. Lets call it Chaos.

So where is this going? Several places actually, but lets just focus on the one. Novas use Quantum to affect change in the world. What I believe is that somehow this Chaotic energy wave allows us to manipulate the map of Order. We force Quantum energy to resonate in particular ways, causing the map to react and adjust to those changes on a temporary basis, thus achieving the desired effect. Once the Quantum stimulus comes to an end, the map returns to it's natural shape.

I believe that when a Nova overextends his use of Quantum, tries to "bend the map" too far, he throws his personal balance between "Order" and "Chaos" out of whack and he changes. To me, this is what we call "Taint." Whether it's good or bad, I can't really say.

Now remember this is just a glossed over version of a work in progress. To be honest, I'm kind of hoping that I'm wrong, 'cause the deeper implications of this theory are more than a little unnerving when you stop and take a really good look at it.

Hey Endeavor,

I wouldn't worry too much. There's a big difference between consistantly working with your abilities to gain better control which can lead to more powerful results on a consistant basis, and pushing yourself past all your normal limits. As long as you don't go hog wild all the time, you shouldn't have any major problems. I know I don't.

[Fortune's Son]

Discounting the newly erupted, since there is no way to objectively determine the level of effort going into that first flush of quantum manipulation, there's another facet to consider. You talk about "over extending" on quantum manipulation but your terms are a little misleading. From my point of view when people "over-extend" they lose control. Sometimes in big flashy ways, sometimes in small and difficult to spot ways. It depends on;

• The nature of their QE.
• what they were trying to do. And;
• how greatly the effect diverged from the intent.

I think I know what you're trying to describe and the reason I wanted to draw the above distinction is there's some evidence that what you call Taint creeps in even when you're not pushing the envelope.

Ever spent any time around deserts?

Take an old glass bottle and put it out in the desert in the spring to soak in the sun. Every once in a while wash it off to make certain the glass isn't being shielded by dust buildup but leave it out there. You'll note the glass begins to take on a bluish tinge in a couple of months and it deepens as time goes on. Takes about six months to get a nice shade.

Now take a look at some of the historical houses around Boston or similar areas. The kind of places where the houses still have the same glass panes in the window that were there a hundred years ago. You'll note there's just the slightest blue tinge to the glass now.

What's the point?

Those old glass panes show the same effect, the gradual change of color, but it takes place over so much longer a period that its not noticed until you actually look for it.

How's that for unnerving?

[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: Jack Chance ]

[Sakurako Hino]

I was going to make a similiarity comparason to novas with that interesting peice of trivia, Mr. Chance. But... do you know what causes that? I don't. That's not my field of knowledge. It sounds like if you're exposed to a more "pure" form of quantum you get all buggy? I just don't get it.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cin:
Taint comes from pushing yourself too far is various ways. You channel too much Quantum for you body to handle and so some gets left behind because you could not channel it all as effectively.

Your opinion and theory only. Yours is only one of many. Don't speak of it as though your theory is scientific fact.

[Preston]

Okay, how come some people erupt with awesome amounts of taint and some people none? It isn't always because of differences in power. That much I do know.

Also, Virgil, a buddy of mine, has no taint and no taint effects. He has become more powerful over the time we have worked together and still shows no taint. He has also manifested new 'tricks' with his powers.

My eyes have begun showing a milky-blue tint all the time, recently. It began with a small effect when I worked real hard, but it has become more pervilant over the past month or so, even when I am not using any powers. As a side effect, or vice versa, I have become (I don't know if stronger is the right word, but its the closest thing I can think of) better at what I do. Also, my node has expanded in an odd way. Its mass hasn't increased, but it has become more difuse in my brain. The doctors hypothesize that it is acting in a more efficient manner.

I am not much in the way of a scientist, but I hope some real world examples might help. No, I will not go to a Rashoud Facility ever again, either.

[Jordan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:
Discounting the newly erupted, since there is no way to objectively determine the level of effort going into that first flush of quantum manipulation, there's another facet to consider. You talk about "over extending" on quantum manipulation but your terms are a little misleading. From my point of view when people "over-extend" they lose control. Sometimes in big flashy ways, sometimes in small and difficult to spot ways. It depends on;

• The nature of their QE.
• what they were trying to do. And;
• how greatly the effect diverged from the intent.

I think I know what you're trying to describe and the reason I wanted to draw the above distinction is there's some evidence that what you call Taint creeps in even when you're not pushing the envelope.

Ever spent any time around deserts?

Take an old glass bottle and put it out in the desert in the spring to soak in the sun. Every once in a while wash it off to make certain the glass isn't being shielded by dust buildup but leave it out there. You'll note the glass begins to take on a bluish tinge in a couple of months and it deepens as time goes on. Takes about six months to get a nice shade.

Now take a look at some of the historical houses around Boston or similar areas. The kind of places where the houses still have the same glass panes in the window that were there a hundred years ago. You'll note there's just the slightest blue tinge to the glass now.

What's the point?

Those old glass panes show the same effect, the gradual change of color, but it takes place over so much longer a period that its not noticed until you actually look for it.

How's that for unnerving?

[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: Jack Chance ]

I understand what your trying to say and in a way, your right. We both are actually. The difference between your example of the the glass and Novas is one of action. For a Nova to "aquire taint", the Nova must take some "action," even if that action is only miniscule by "human" perception. Novas don't just wake up one morning with a third eye or something.

Have you ever noticed the differences in the Quantum fields of any of the Novas you regularly interact with? I have. Quantum fields, like everything else in the universe, vary in intensity and complexity from the incredibly simple to the unfathomably complex. This level of complexity isn't static either, I know this from personal experience. When I first erupted, my Quantum field was laughably simplistic but due to the regular use of my particular talents it has grown quite complex.

I suppose it would be a natural to assume that with the increase in Quantum field complexity, that taint is not far behind and on some level I think it's true. I don't believe, however, that this is an inevitability. If a Nova were either give up the use of their Quantum gifts all together, or consistantly keep their use well below their natural maximum levels, it is highly unlikely that that particular Nova will aquire taint. Perhaps the reality map allows for some variation in an individual's Quantum field complexity, but when the Nova develops beyond what reality is "willing to allow" they start to build up Taint as they rely more and more on the Chaotic side of the universe to maintain the integrity of there Quantum field? I'm not exactly sure about all of this.

A note on my comments about Novas over-extending themselves. I wasn't referring to a loss of control, although that is one element of it. I was reffering to the odd ability that all Novas seem to share. The ability to willingly and consiously push their abilities beyond what they are normally capable of. Take Lotus Infinite for example. How often do we see her pull out the "Infinite Blossom?" I have never seen footage of her tossing it off as casually as she lashes out with her "Infinite Justifier" or even her dreaded "Infinite Wind" attack. She always seems to save it for those desperate moments. I would hardly call it loosing control, yet by the look of her after using it, I'd say that definitely pushed herself to pull it off. Thats what I meant by "over-extending oneself."

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Do we even understand where quantum expression ends and taint begins?

I'll step up as an example. Am I tainted?

Or that guy (Joe Something?) with no skin and his internal organs flopping around inside a forcefield, is he tainted?

[Doutor da Reducao]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
I'll step up as an example. Am I tainted?

A very good question and one difficult to answer. I do not believe a measure for "the taint" has ever been reliably established as it has never been scientifically defined. With out an understanding of its nature contrasting it against another quality like "quantum expression" would be unlikely even if they are directly related. Nova's claiming to be Terats have asserted a deeper understanding of its manifestations and workings but there's never been a definitive explanation of its nature from that quarter.

I do know that any answer as to the nature of "the taint" would have to take into account the incredible variety of manifestations that are attributed to it. Scales, skin pigmentation, wildly divergent body structure, deteriorating sanity, non-human appendages... The list seems to grow longer each passing day.

I'm sorry I can not provide an answer to your question Doctor but I can offer this one small observation. Although we believe we've isolated the genome sequence for expressing an MR Node we know almost nothing more. We do not even know if all novas are "equal" or if there are more subtle genetic factors at work. It is possible that there are "subspecies" of novas and that "the taint" is an aspect of their quantum usage. This might explain Capt. Preston's earlier observation contrasting himself and his nova friend.