Bahamut810 Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 New Licencing stuffWhite Wolf now plans to take a chunk out of cash payed to play their games. Apparently the $30 that people shell out for their books isen't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNinja Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 The biggest problem I have with seeing that is that WW is effectively banning you from having any players under 18 in an ongoing game. Quite frankly, that sucks ass.[edit] Oh, and in addition, apparently everyone in our campaign now has to go pay a Camarilla membership because we all kick in money for food during our weekly Aberrant campaign. WW can kiss my hairy white ass. [/edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat82 Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I feel sorry for you guys in the US...For me, here in Sweden, things are pritty clear. Our laws dont give people right to add anything to legal documents after they have been "sold" (such as licensing rights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 In Germany, too.Fortunatelly, I have never seen somebody charging his player for the fun on any convention I have been to.On the other hand, you easily can bybass that thing, I think. Just let them play and put a "saving-box" (?!) on the desk and ask them to make a "gift" when they are pleased with your mastering ::wink In this way you aren´t taking "fees" and so that licence-shit won´t be neccessary.BTW, why do the players have to be 18? I haven´t found any age restrictions in that Licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of Boredom Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 BTW, why do the players have to be 18? I haven´t found any age restrictions in that Licence.←Because of this paragraph (i've highlighted the important part in red):I should also make clear up front that Camarilla membership does not mean Camarilla oversight or management — although any member is free to participate in the Camarilla’s own chronicles, the various troupe games and independent chronicles that come under this license will not be bound by any of the reporting or approvals structures of the club. The basic Code of Conduct (no minors, no public intoxication, nothing illegal) does apply, however. Though I think all of you are over reacting a bit.The biggest problem I have with seeing that is that WW is effectively banning you from having any players under 18 in an ongoing game. Quite frankly, that sucks ass.This is in no way true based on this new license. This is only the case if you are charging participants money in order to play in the game:If you are not charging any fees to your players, STOP. You do not need to obtain a license. Have fun with our blessing. If you wish to promote your game on White Wolf’s webpage, simply list it on the event calendar (coming this summer to the White Wolf web-page). If you do not need a license, then you don't have to join the Camarilla, which means you don't have to follow its Code of Conduct (ie. no minors).So what does this mean? Minors can't play WW games at a convention if that convention charges for each individual game (many I've been to do). [Edit] Ok, I just read throught faq, and I was a bit wrong. It is only if you are charging more than the standard generic game ticket that you require the license.[/Edit]If you think about it, this kinda makes sense. If someone charges money for the enjoyment of playing in a game, they are eseentially making a profit out of something they don't own (ie. the copywright to the game). So, WW feels they are being shafted money that is due to them. This is no different than the movie industry (or any other for that matter), getting pissed if you buy a dvd then charge others to watch that movie.Oh, and in addition, apparently everyone in our campaign now has to go pay a Camarilla membership because we all kick in money for food during our weekly Aberrant campaign. WW can kiss my hairy white ass. And this is just plain stupid. That's not what the license says, and you know it. Asking folks to chip in for pizza is not 'charging fees' and everyone here knows that. Your just being confrontational for the hell of it.God forbid that companies look out for themselves, their profit, and the bottom line. Most of you seem to forget that the only way that game products get made is if the writers get paid. For the writers to get paid, the company has to make a profit. WW just wants to make sure that others are not making a profit from their copywright; could you blame them?[Edit] Funny, I wrote this posted it, then just read the WW faq of the license:Q. Aren’t White Wolf games meant to be played? Why charge for that right? A. Yes, our games are meant to be played. The license is not necessary in order to play our games. It is necessary in order to charge others money to play with you. At that point you have stepped into a commercial venture (no matter how small) and need to obtain a legal license to use our games, settings and systems in that venture. Just as you can’t buy a DVD and then charge money to others to see it, you can’t buy one our games and then charge others to play it.Sound similar?[/Edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat82 Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 hmm, question: If I write a play, and say my friend Peter performs it with his amateur teater group, charging some cash for it, is he bound by law to give me cash for it even if it did not say so in our "starting" agrement? That is what is pissing me off with this, that white wolf changes its rules. OK if the rule applies for the products sold from this day on, but not if it applies to all there products from this day on. and no, I have never charged a buck for those times when I have ST at conventions (only 4-5 times)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNinja Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 If someone charges money for the enjoyment of playing in a game, they are eseentially making a profit out of something they don't own (ie. the copywright to the game) If a group, whether LARP or tabletop, has to rent a space for their game, somebody has to pay for it. If one person signs the rental agreement for that space, and then tells everyone else they have to kick in $10 for their share of the rental fee, WW says that everyone in the group must join the Camarilla - even though nobody is making a profit.The "pizza model" was answered on another thread, that I had not gotten to when posting here. Someone from their marketing department said that they would not go after small groups charging fees simply for site use, food, basic materials, etc. But that doesn't mean that they could not, which is why I'm pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 1) madcat82: Actually, yeah. More accurately, you could sue and would usually win. 2) If a group, whether LARP or tabletop, has to rent a space for their game, somebody has to pay for it. If one person signs the rental agreement for that space, and then tells everyone else they have to kick in $10 for their share of the rental fee, WW says that everyone in the group must join the Camarilla - even though nobody is making a profit.Yeah and no. Depends if you are charging everyone who games at your table (in which case it becomes a charge above and beyond the norm), or if you are splitting the cost between those specific to the organization....FR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat82 Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 I would win? $$$How hard would it be to fake that I have writen something that have been put up as a show a lot... hmmm, heard about this play Romeo and Julia... hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hadn't read this before, this is interesting.. ::smile Has WW answered any of the comments posted in their thread?Its not like showing a dvd. The storyteller is creating a new story based on material provided by whitewolf, he isn't just showing the books and charging for it. When I have time I'll have to think on this some more, I think if WW sued anyone and that person actually put up a fight the battle would be quite interesting.Hmm, for educational purposes I almost wish it'd happen. Maybe I'll charge a 30$ fee for IPWET! ::wink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanum_V Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Has WW answered any of the comments posted in their thread?In another thread, they have withdrawn the pay-for-play policy. That's a good thing, too, 'cuz when we played Adventure! last night, we split the cost of a couple pizzas! I'd hate to be playing outside of the law! ::biggrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut810 Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 In another thread, they have withdrawn the pay-for-play policy. That's a good thing, too, 'cuz when we played Adventure! last night, we split the cost of a couple pizzas! I'd hate to be playing outside of the law! ::biggrin←I dunno. I like feeling like a Rebel. ::laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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