Trinity Universe: New Game

[Alex Green]

A mind is NOT "tangible" or "intangible" by the definitions we are using. If it were "intangible" then when you were DD3+ you could reach out and touch it, which you can't. Ditto "Truth" or "Loyality" which are also normally thought to be "intangible"... but not by the rules we are using.

Ignore "minds" and look at DD3. You take some damage from energy and STILL can't affect anyone with energy yourself.

If you are DD4 and I'm not, then you can't affect me.

(Edited to say "NOT").

Edited this.

[Nullifier]

Actually, it doesn't say anything about affecting things with energy yourself at DD 3, implying that you can still use energy manipulating powers at full strength at that point. Using the next two levels, your ability to interact with energy goes down by half, and at 5, it's non-existant, but you can resolidify parts to do whatever. There's no mention of psychic attacks not working from or against you, in fact, in DD 3 and 5, there's mention of psychic attacks still being completely effective.

[ezekiel]

A mind is either "tangible" or "intangible" by the definitions we are using. If it were "intangible" then when you were DD3+ you could reach out and touch it, which you can't.

See, now I think you're starting to get it. The operative word is "touch". An intangible character can't touch anything therefore can't interact with anything tangible. He can't, cause he can't interact with it, he can't touch it, it goes through him. I don't see why the telepath couldn't read minds while DD is in use.

[Nullifier]

Actually it sould be 'intangible to so and so' and when the book says physical, it means 'touch.' So intangible to physical means they can't touch anything, and intangible to energy means they can't interact with energy fields. So with the first, you can't physically touch anything, or use any powers that require physical contact, and with the second, you can't interact with energy fields, or use powers that rely on manipulation of energy. it should, however, be noted that the book makes a very real distinction between 'energy' and 'psychic' in terms of intangibility, which implies, to me at least, that unless it says specifically that you're intangible to 'psyches' you can still interact with them fully.

[phoenix]

I think it can be taken as read that the statement for DD3 should not be taken literally. After all, "an intangible character still needs to breathe", and converting atmospheric oxygen into carbon dioxide is affecting the tangible world. So is breath itself. So is reflecting photons into other people's retinas - i.e. being visible. Besides, as someone said, a person's mind is arguably not tangible.

As to the "game balance" protest, I'd hasten to point out that while DD is more effective than maxed Invulnerability, it already comes with the cost of not being able to attack physically, which Invulnerability does not. I'm not saying it's not unbalanced, I'm just saying that it's not as unbalanced as it seems and that it's better for it to be slightly unbalanced than for it to be blatantly illogical.

Just my two cents. ::thumbsup

[Haze]

If it's a new game in the offing, I'm definitely up for it. ::biggrin

[knave]

First off Guys be gentle on me (and no - I never thought I'd ever be saying that sentence... Gahhgg... it just gets worse ::blink) - I mean haven't GMed abbie before y'know! As Alex mentioned I'm running with Prof's rules because he always makes a lot of sense or at least beats the stuffing out of my arguments... ::biggrin

I know it's cool think up kickass combos that will totally p0wN the opposition, but I think it's only fair that everything needs to have a weakness. Assume for the sake of convenience that things that provide ultimate defence (like DD) will limit your offence slightly more (if possible) than they will give you defence. So - assume that whatever part of you launches an attack has to be hittable. If that's your brain. Oweee.

If you want a pseudo-science reason - most of your matter is pushed into curved dimensions and actually 'focussing' mental energy into this dimension effectively becomes difficult. Others can hit you because the bit of you they're aiming at is the bit of you that's still experiencing.

So in short:

DD -> Good physical defence and utility. Bad for offence and against mental.

[Alex Green]

First, let me say that I’d intended to say “neither”, rather than “either”. I edited it to “NOT” above.

To go over that point again, someone’s “mind” is neither tangible or intangible by the rules we are using.

If it were tangible you could touch it when you were tangible.

If it were intangible you could touch it when you were intangible.

Moving on, let’s see what the book says.

(Page 189, Core book) Density Decrease at two dots: “…reduce by half the damage the character takes from any physical attack, correspondingly reduce the effectiveness of the character’s own attacks by half;…”

Even though you still take full damage from energy, your Q-Bolt(Fire) is halved.

Similarly,

your Punches is an attack (thus it’s halved)

your Q-Vampire is an attack (ditto),

your Mental-Blast is an attack (ditto),

your Telepathy is also an attack (ditto).

It gets worse at three dots. “…While intangible, the character cannot affect the tangible world in any way…”. Since this is an “upgrade” from your attacks doing half effect, your attacks now do nothing. You are also prevented from “…picking up objects…” (etc).

RE: Game Balance.

Not being able to launch physical attacks isn't much of a limitation if I build the character to do something else. Mind Blast + AGG comes to mind.

[ezekiel]

If it were intangible you could touch it when you were intangible.

I think there's a major fault in your logics...

[Asbjørn]

Doesn't the whole DD and vulnerability thing depend on how you define the power? If My character has DD 5 defined as mysterious forces that allow him to move his body to another dimension while his soul/consciousness remains and yours is defined as projecting a holographic image of yourself while being safely hidden in your lair, they're both as intangible to normal, physical attacks. But there is no reason why they should be able to affect each other physically.

Two novas with the same definition of DD5 would be another story.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

But there is no reason why they should be able to affect each other physically.

Two novas with the same definition of DD5 would be another story.

Took the words right out of my mouth Asbjorn. ::thumbsup

Playing several games where characters could become intangible, the same issues arose as what are being discussed and the gm of all those games decided unless it was a species trait or a certain spell that allowed for group intangibility, that those intangible could not be affected by others (those without the magical means that is, damned fantasy ::tongue )

[knave]

Everytime I've tried to argue these things the counter argument -which I now fully subscribe to since it's the only one that doesn't drive a GM mad - is for the purposes of applying the rules you should ignore a character's signature application of the power and just take the effect of the power itself into consideration.

[knave]

So yeah. Shadow boxing for two shadows is still just a pointless workout ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

OK, point. Looking at the rules I don't see anything that would allow two DD characters to interact with each other.

However, if intangible objects can't interact with each other that lends MORE, not less, support for the idea that intangible characters can't use attacks like Mind-Blast.

Although the rules do state that twice in DD's section.

Prof's Comments on DD #1

Prof's Comments on DD #2

[Haze]

Seems that everyone knows more about the setting than me. ::biggrin

Is it possible to be the child of Nova parents? And would it be possible to have been born on the colony, thus being more familiar with other Novas that humans?

I'm thinking about creating a character whose main power is Telekinesis, with various powers spun off the "mental abilities" angle - a dot or two in Disorient, Psychic Shield, Mental Blast, Telepathy, not sure yet.

[Bahamut810]

Seems that everyone knows more about the setting than me.  ::biggrin

Is it possible to be the child of Nova parents? And would it be possible to have been born on the colony, thus being more familiar with other Novas that humans?

I'm thinking about creating a character whose main power is Telekinesis, with various powers spun off the "mental abilities" angle - a dot or two in Disorient, Psychic Shield, Mental Blast, Telepathy, not sure yet.

Its possible...but not *probable*. In 'current' timeline there are only something like 12 and thats from Bounty (from the Teregen) undoing the damage Protius is doing to all the Nova's reproductive organs.

It pretty much boils down to there is an international consperiacy (spearheaded by Project Protius) that makes a guys sperm useless and women barren. The only way around it that is hinted at is either to have suffecient powers to stop the sterilisation (such as a few M-stm enhancements) or to stay away from anything that is related to Project Utopia (or that they have access to).

Unless you wanna go to a nature master type person (like Bounty) to get your ability to reproduse back.

[Alex Green]

True in 2010, less true in 2050.

Over the years,

1) Fewer novas became associated with PU.

2) Proteus and its workings may or may not have come to light.

3) At least one of the novas working on curing nova infertility has born fruit (specifically Anna DeVries).

4) The powers that counter those drugs have become more common.

5) At least a few novas hit Q8 and gained the power to undo that curse for the entire nova population.

So if you want to have two nova parents, that's probably fine. The real question is "What do you expect for having that?".

The obvious things are the Resist Taint background and lots of Q without taint.

Not that you get any of these things for free. Considering we are all starting off with 45 nova points, this sounds more like a theme than a power.

[knave]

What Alex said ::biggrin

[Haze]

So if you want to have two nova parents, that's probably fine.  The real question is "What do you expect for having that?".

Nothing except back-story fodder, really. In fact, I'm not enitrely sure if I will go down that road. I'll have to see what works better when I add the finishing touches.

[ezekiel]

Symbiote has been accepted...

[Haze]

I'll try and get mine off to Knave tonight. I'm going to make him a young man born in Yeltsingrad, if that's okay.

[Prince of Boredom]

I think I've decided to go with the true 'Jack of all trades; master of none". I'm building a guy with Quantum Imprint (and probably nothing else vice some mega-attributes).

So, whenever we say, "hey, we need another warper", "hey, we need another guy that can turn to mud", etc. I'll be there to pick up the slack...

[ezekiel]

Here's another thought provoking question (since the DD has been beaten to death) Is there any way you could imprint Symbiote? Or would it always be his host's powers you'd be imprinting?

Hmmm...

[Alex Green]

Q-Imprint requires a "touch".

This implies you can't use Q-Imprint on someone like Symbiote because you can't touch them. (Although if the "host" is the guy with Q-Imprint then he would be "touching" Symbiote all the time).

However, Attune extends your q-sig to another object.

This implies if Symbiote attuned someone/thing, that person could then be touched and then Q-Imprint would work.

[knave]

However, Attune extends your q-sig to another object.

This implies if Symbiote attuned someone/thing, that person could then be touched and then Q-Imprint would work.

Sounds fair ::biggrin