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Nullifier

Trinity Universe: Twinkies!

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Steming from the discussion on the Ultimate Damage forum, I've decided to offer to run a game with starting, but twinked-out PCs, and a very permisible interpretation of all the various rules conflicts we've discussed over the years. I'm still not sure what the setting would be, and am open to suggestions, but as of now I'm leaning towards running some of the scenarios from the WW Phase II book.

This would be a chance for all you folks out there to play your favorite twinked-out character concepts. If it appears there's enough interest, I'll post the character creation guidelines and rule customizations. So come one, come all, and join the elite ranks of the Twinkies! ::biggrin

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Yes, I was planning on using 30NPs, but with the APG rules, all of which I'm planning on using with just about the loosest interpretations, and Taint out the wazoo, it really should be enough. If you really need a bit more to make the character concept work, then we can discuss it, but you'd have to have an extremely good reason why you can't do it with 30Nps.

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Yes, the QC twink is possible, with certain limitations, such as the construct's Quantum level not exceeding its creator's score, and a few other things that I'm happy to discuss. I believe Knave called playing the QC character, though I could be wrong.

A few other basic limitations: Quantum score no higher than 5 without a very good reason. Multiple instances of powers such as FF are allowed, but only one instance of a particular power can be applied at any given time. Feel free to make full use of the weakness and strengths as well as merits and flaws, but make sure that each application is justifiable in-game. Immolate damage stacks with HTH attacks and converts the damage if applicable. Maxing effects last for a single use of the power, last as long as that use lasts and can be maintained for maintence powers. Lowering a power's effective level or allowing extras without raising a power's level costs the amount of weakness points listed, which are then gone and cannot be spent on strengths.

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?

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Well, not really, but anything that started out human and ended up like that would be uber-tainted, and that much taint gives the equivalent of lots of NPs. As for limits on perm taint, feel free to take up to 9. ::bigsmile

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In the interest of clearing up some rules issues, here are some limitations on your twinkery, with thanks to Alex for his incisive questioning:

Claws+Agg Extra does the same thing as the Claws power normally does, merely substituting Aggravated for Lethal.

Only maintenence and concentration powers can get increased durations through the use of strengths.

All powers are single-target only unless you use the MIRV extra or a specific extra that allows for multiple targets.

Strengths may only be bought using weaknesses taken for that specific power.

I'll post more as they come up. Happy twinking! ::biggrin

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Are Maintenance power gonna' be of the 'fire & forget' variety - i.e. you can launch off multiple manifestations of the same power & expect them all to keep going until their time runs out? If so, that's a whole new can-o-twink opened right there...

Force Field + Reduced QP Costs is nice - power it up repeatedly at 'half power' & head towards unlimited Soak. Even if multiple uses of such a power don't stack (& I thought we were being twink here... ::tongue ), adding the Wall Extra would probably be able to by-pass that little (attempted) limitation. It'd only take a few weaknesses to be able to do that, & still have unlimited Soak.

Will powers like Quantum Construct & Node Spark be in the twink-style: i.e. not limited by character special effects? Are powers just to be reduced to the mere number-crunching aspects (as twink applications most often are)?

Will the 'permanent' strength be available, & if so, can the character still throw multiple manifestations of the power? I'm thinking that Boost may well come into its own as a cheap-ass alternative to actually spending points on Mega-Attributes & the like.

Can Bodymorph be used for the pure stats - i.e. without any change of substance (i.e. Bodymorph - more powerful version of me): some twinks try to use Bodymorph as a change of form / shape in much the same vein.

Will Shapeshift be unlimited - e.g. will it be able to alter substance instead of just shape? Shapeshifting into fire, or dandruff, or 'angry thoughts', & stuff like that?

Will Node Spark be the equivalent of 'magic' - i.e. it can do anything, & the effects last long after the Spark has faded?

Will we be allowed to transfer Extras between powers - like 'works on others' being applied to powers like Shapeshift?

Will the out of combat speed (& the associated sonic boom damage) of Hypermovement be multiplied by Enhanced Movement (as well as stuff like Quickness actions & the like)? Being able to knock down all the major cities in the USA in under a minute sounds like a fun power... ::devil

Can suite techniques be transfered between differing suite powers? I.e. can I have Elemental Mastery - Kewl Powerz that cherry-picks all the best techniques from the various suites (or Elemental Mastery - The Power Cosmic that allows the character to use any technique from any suite power 'cos Galactus gave it to him)?

Will characters be able to obtain Backgrounds for free in play due to 'game logic' - i.e. a couple of dots of Mega-Socials generates Followers, Allies, & Contacts without the need for any messy points spending in chargen?

Can we take Flaws that can be easily ignored during play (e.g. take Dependents, but not give a monkey spank what actually befalls them)?

Will we be allowed to abuse aberrations into making them actually positive traits - such as Permanent Power - Boost?

Are aberrations as 'Quantum Flaws' allowed?

Will Density Decreased characters get to fry peoples minds with their Agg' Mental Blasts but still be impervious to harm themselves?

I'm sure I'll think of some more questions, but that should be enough to be getting on with... ::sly

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You know you can't keep me out of this one ::biggrin

Questions:

Will this be a one on one thing?

Will this only be physical combat?

Are weapons allowed?

Are Quantum Gadgets allowed? ( ::tongue Don't look at me like that if ppl are using the Quantum Construct twink questions such as these have to be asked)

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No, phoenix, I didn't, just a blind man. Prof, what part of 'All powers are single-target only unless you use the MIRV extra or a specific extra that allows for multiple targets' and 'Multiple instances of powers such as FF are allowed, but only one instance of a particular power can be applied at any given time' didn't you understand? ::rolleyes Did I stutter? ::tongue Seriously, please don't go off like that without reading what I wrote. It's annoying, and I'm frankly kinda embarassed for you. ::crazy I'm not going to bother answering any of your questions until you actually read what I say. ::tongue

In case my reaction to the Prof's post as well as my previous posts haven't made it clear, I'm interested in you twinking out your character concepts, not in pure twinkery, and not in stupid questions from people unwilling or unable to read what I write. ::tongue Please don't anyone else waste my time like that. Thank you for your cooperation. ::bigsmile

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To answer your questions Ayre:

Maybe at times, but generally No, No, Yes, and Yes with appropriate backgrounds and a damned good reason for having 'em. ::bigsmile

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O.k., I had a long post which just got lost, but basically the gist of it was to list the current players 7(assuming Prof and Knave) of 'em, and to cap that at 8, and to say that I'm a roleplayer, not roll-player, so I expect you all to be creative and thourough with your character creation. I don't want you guys to think you can skimp on details, justifications, and consequences just because you're going to be min-maxing your characters. I also pointed out that I'm willing and able to play to your characters' weaknesses, and that characters that are too focused may get killed and/or co-opted rather quickly. Also, please PM any specific questions you may have about the powers you intend to use, rather than posting 'em here, and I'm quite willing to help anyone who asks with their character creation. I'm planning on using scenarios from the WW Phase II book to start with, unless anyone has major objections to it. I think that's about it. Sorry 'bout the shorthand, but like I said, my long, eloquent, well thought out post got lost, and I really don't want to re-do it. ::bigsmile

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Thanks Null, but I don't have the time to do a game like this justice. ::blink For both good and bad reasons. 1) I have no time 2) My RL Trinity game is running almost sorta weekly ::biggrin.

I do look forward to seeing the mayhem though.

Yes Prof - this means I relinquish my dibs on the QC twink.

Actually that'd make an awesome PC name. QC Twink. With a wig. Going about dispensing justice for England. AWESOME. Damn that was a lot of wine with those burritos. ::wacko

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... Prof, what part of 'All powers are single-target only unless you use the MIRV extra or a specific extra that allows for multiple targets' and 'Multiple instances of powers such as FF are allowed, but only one instance of a particular power can be applied at any given time' didn't you understand?..

The difference between 'multiple instances' & 'single application', basically.

However, considering your (abusive) reaction to my questions, I think I'll just give this one a miss.

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Easy there everyone.

Well, I'm almost done (still talking about it).

I promised I'd play him and so I shall. Say hello to Mr. "lots and lots of damage".

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Hey there everyone, I thought I'd post the skills list. I like starting from here and working down.

Skills (23+6*N+Bonus/2)

(Str) Might •; Brawl •; Throwing •;

(Dex) Athletics •; Drive •; Firearms •; Heavy Weapons •; Melee •; Martial Arts •; Stealth •; Legerdemain •; Pilot •; Ride •;

(Stm) Endurance •••; Resistance •••;

(Per) Awareness •; Meditation •; Navigation •; Artillery •;

(Int) Academics •; Bureaucracy •; Computer •; Demolitions •; Engineering ••; Intrusion •; Medicine •; Science ••; Survival •

Linguistics •• (Spanish, German, French, Japanesse, Arabic); Gamboling •;

(Wit) Rapport •; Weave •; Arts •; Biz •; Tactics •;

(App) Intimidation •; Style •; Disguise •;

(Man) Interrogation •; Streetwise •; Subterfuge •; Dipolmacy •; Hypnosis •; Seduction •;

(Chr) Command; Etiquette •; Perform •; Animal Training •; Carousing •; Instruction •;

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Note that I'm not the ST and am talking out of my hat (so to speak) so any or all of this could be over ruled at any time. But in the interests of promoting twink-ism, I thought I'd share some of my thoughts on twinkism, in an effort to share the twink so to speak, and perhaps give others ideas.

Allowed: ST seemed to be intent on keeping me in theme. So, I came up with a really over the top character concept this time, "Crush the Neutronium man" has power over neutronium....

Crush is built around that Immolate + Mega-Strength idea everyone was laughing at. His attack is much higher than his soak, but he looks to be a fun character none the less. Let's hope I live through the first round of combat.

In general, the idea of Neutronium is pretty terrifying. A two foot ball of the stuff should destroy the Earth pretty easily...

Denied: ...which would almost demand a Q6.... but Q6 was denied anyway. There seems to be an effort on the ST's part to allow twinkism without decending into outright insanity.

Denied: (Speaking of which) ST vetoed my "Permanent Node Spark" character. Node Spark + Permanent combined with 5 dots of luck would let me trade (on average) 1 point of taint for 24+ dots of power. I don't think he wants to give us things we haven't paid for.

Allowed:

Merits & Flaws are in.

Quantum Flaws (and aberrations used as them) are in.

High levels of taint are in.

Strengths and Weaknesses for powers are in.

(This section in particular is subject to ST control so take it with a grain of salt) Weaknesses can be cool, but you have to watch yourself. IMHO, A weakness that isn't a weakness is not a weakness. As I understand it, a weakness on a suite power has to apply to all the techniques in that suite. So reducing the range on EC:Earth means you can't use the Shield technique. On the other hand you could get 5 dots in Disintegrate with a -10 to range and make it a level one 'touch' power... I think. (Ask ST for permission here, this is very much a case by case thing and I suspect theme plays a big part).

Maybe Allowed: If I had to guess, I'd say that the Prof's ideas for DD+Attack would work, as would "Run around and knock down buildings"... although IMHO "Quick" only works in combat and 5 dots of hypermovement seems pretty boring.

Caveat: I make no guaranty that ST would approve this math, or this concept, but...Release your inner twink.

A cheaper and more flexible way to terrorize the baselines is...

Q-Bolt (Defined as EarthQuake)

-3 Weakness: Restricted Target: Only effects buildings.

-5 Weakness: Range -5 (so you have to touch the ground)

-2 Weakness: Restricted Target: Only effects things on the ground (so you can't use it against the second floor).

+10 Strength: Reduced Level x2 (so with two extras it would be a level 2 power)

+5 Strength: Extra: Area

+5 Strength: Extra: Extended Range

Cost is 3 nova points for a level 2 power that will do 4d[15] damage to the structure of the first floor of every building in an insane range. "Extended Range" let's you use a power at line of sight at long range, and long range is only like a -2 to target which doesn't mean much with an area power.

Normal Range would be 15m * (L+Q) or 90m with Long Range double that. Extra Range doubles that and if you have two dots of M-Perception with the telescopic vision extra it would be easy to argue that the range is 100x more, or 18,000 meters or over 10 miles.

Hopefully people will be steered away from characters with the "see a city, smash a city" concept. This was just to show what I think is possible.

Maybe Allowed: Taking Extras from one power and using them on another is (I think) sometimes in.

Having said that, some common sense should be in order. "Effects Others" IMHO wouldn't work on Shapechange (if you are wanting to bypass soak and mold people into unpleasent objects without any kind of resistence). If you wanted a character like that you could just buy that technique from WWI that lets you mold flesh. The suite itself is Q6 but you could probably break out that technique and use it as a level 2-3, Q4-5 power.

You could also get Aggravated attacks to represent your ability to mold flesh. There's that theme thing again and ST's lack of interest in giving us things we haven't paid for. If you want an Aggravated attack, buy an Aggravated attack.

In General

So far I've been real pleased both with what was allowed, and the level of common sense used in killing the (or is that "my") more insane ideas.

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So, o.k., for whatever reasons several of you folks have said you don't want to play. What I would like is a roll-call of who I still have to make sure there's still enough to run a game. So far I know Alex has agreed to play, but I'm not sure about any of the rest of you. So speak up, either here or by PM, and we'll get going. ::bigsmile

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I'm in, just still working out the character. In that vain, what is the goal for the start of the game, and desired endstate. Meaning, are we supposed to be designing superheroes, supervillains, anti-heroes, etc? And is the plan for us to be in a super-group, meaning should we deconflict to make sure we have a good 'party' makeup (ie. do we have at least one wizard, cleric, thief and fighter for you old school gamers like me ::tongue )?

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Good question, PoB. Honestly, I'm not sure. Perhaps you should discuss it amonst yourselves. What I would like to see is a group of characters that can work together, meaning no major ideological or orginizational differences that would make it impossible for them to work together. Other than that, I'm pretty flexible. If you'd all like to be Utopians, Teragen, Elites, C-Z, Heaven's Thunder, or government novas, that's fine. I'd prefer you all to be working for the same people, but who that happens to be and why is something I'll leave up to you guys. ::sly ::bigsmile

So far I've got:

Alex

Bahamut

CD

PoB

That makes 4, which is fine. ::bigsmile

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Just a little update:

Alex's charater's pretty much done, pending a final tweak or two. ::bigsmile

I have yet to get a character sheet from any of the rest of you. Feel free to throw drafts at me and ask for advice. Or even just rough character concepts with proposed background and affiliation. ::bigsmile

A couple notes on Invlunerability and the Broad Category Extra:

Invulnerability, as it's defined in the book, only protects against physical and mental attacks. I've expanded that definition to include any (limited w/o BC) category of powers that may be resisted with a roll or soaked. You might want to note that some powers like Strobe and a few others can't be resisted with a roll, and thus can't be protected against with Invulnerability.

The Broad Categories Extra for Invulnerability is allowed, but if it's used on an already existing Invulnerability, it must completely overlap and exceed the orginal category. Having said that, feel free to get creative with your categories and Broad Categories. Just be sure to ask before using if it's not fairly standard, as it's a somewhat sticky subject, and I don't have any really clear guidelines as of yet. ::thumbsup

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Hmmm...broad category...how about:

Invunerability: everything

Invunerability: Things that hurt

Invunerability: Things I dont like

Invuneravility: Things that are meant to try and kill you or outright kill you

Invuneravility: Things that have to move to hit you

Hmmm...the possibilities...

I like the first one best though ::devilangel ::damien

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Um. Right, you guy should read the Broad Categories extra again. ::lookaround

Creative, yes, outside of the bounds of the power, no. Broad Category: Energy, fine, Broad Category: Toxins, fine, Broad Category: Aggravated, fine, Broad Category: Blondes, no. Hope that clears up any misconceptions. ::wink ::tongue

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Toxins probably wouldn't be a broad catagory any more than "fire" would (actually even INV:Toxins is pretty weak considering the alternatives).

INV: Aggravated damage.... is unclear. Aggravated damage is very rare, so you can't claim it's broad, but at the same time you aren't talking about a single 'type' of thing either.... I would be inclined to just not allow it.

INV: Specific Person; would require one heck of a theme justification. "I hate him" wouldn't do it for me. The only situation I can think of where this might work is in combination (not linked) with Q-Imprint. Sort of a "not only do I get your powers but I also become immune to them" sort of thing. However we already have that Teragen q-immunity power which does something really similar (but mostly better).

(At level 3) That one (name?) effectively gives you an infinate amount of soak if they are using any type of effect (i.e. pretty much any soaked power other than Mega-Strength).

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Actually, I meant Toxins as a Broad Category that includes all drugs, poisons, diseases, and viruses. That's pretty broad, as any one of those could be a normal Invulnerability category. Of course you could always take the Health (APG)enhancement for Mega-Stamina, which is pretty much the same thing and cheaper cost-wise.

Aggravated I'd allow as a broad category if you had a good reason, although honestly a dot of Armor with the Impervious extra would generally do more and cost the same. ::rolleyes

It's called Quantum Forgery. Really nice power, actually, although it certainly has its limitations.

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