Aberrant RPG - Ultimate damage

[sutekh]

Inspired by the ultimate soak thread I was kind of wonder what most damaging character one can make with starting stats? Is it even possible to create a character able to damage the bricks created in the ultimate soak thread?

[Bahamut810]

Well....first you have your base Q-bolt. If all you buy is Q 5 and Q bolt 5 (making it lvl 3 with super charging) you get an attack that does 30d(10)L of damage. That is massive IMHO.

For physical...for a starting character...

4Q, 5 str, 5Mstr, 5 Claws, 1 Mdex (Enhanced Movement), 2 Hypermovement... Thats a good 14d(25)L. (you would hve something like 8 taint though)

Im sure there is more that you could do, but thems the basics.

[sutekh]

That is all well and fine, but it is still very far from the soak levels mentioned in this post:

http://eononline.net/forums/index.php?show...indpost&p=16026

[Bahamut810]

I hate to break it to you...but a starting char isent going to be breaking 64/57 any time soon without the rules of customisation. Even then I would think it would be difficult.

[Nullifier]

Reading Alex's post, I can see a very simple way to defeat that particular combination, and without agg damage, which he admits that it doesn't defend against: Disrupt 1 w/Extra Power extra. Take out both the DI and FF, proceed with beating. This works well against many high-soak characters. As for doing massive amounts of damage, if a starting character really wants to deal with bricks from the get-go, and doesn't mind killing, Agg damage and Bioentropic Stom work well for that sort of thing. Armor Piercing is also an effective tactic. Doing enough damage to burn through that kind of huge soak usually isn't the way to go. Even a maxxed, supercharged Q-bolt can only do 30d[30]L damage at most. After all, tat kind of soak can't be maintained very long at those levels, and if it is it's better to avoid the issue of soak all together and disable the opponent another way. All that aside, it's certainly possible to put together power combos that do really horrendous amounts of damage, if you're so inclined. ::bigsmile

[Ayre el KaBeer]

physical:

Q4, Node 5, Str 5, M-Str 5(crush).

=5(45)L

Sure I could include to hit rolls an active immolate, armour piercing claws, hyperstrikes, etc. But really if it hits a 20 quantumpoint fuelled mega-strength 5 crush is going to hurt, if it doesn't the target will be uninjurred but would be propelled so far they may aswell be dead.

[sutekh]

This might in some way relate to my previous post on quickness, since one of my other physical players has a mega-sta + maga-str + force field character... a very powerful combo. Also he is quite capable of soaking aggravated and psychic shield is next on his to-buy list...

...and it seems to solutions is quite the same. Beat him where he can't utilize his strengths. I just don't feel good about that, I don't want to have to rob my players of their powers or place them where they can't use them. It seems to tailored to bring them down for my liking. However it does make sense in the context of both reality and Aberrant... if you want to kill or beat up people you make sure you hit their weak spots.

[sutekh]

I hate to break it to you...but a starting char isent going to be breaking 64/57 any time soon without the rules of customisation.  Even then I would think it would be difficult.

I know... thats why I'm asking you guys... I could have missed something.

[Obsidian Shade]

Throw or teleporte them into the sun or core of the earth. That should work ::devil

[Bahamut810]

Using the Rules of customisation...

Q3, 3 Immolates at 5 (Fire, Electricity, Earth - Linked to eachother to be turned on simotaniusly making them lvl 1 each), Claws5, 5 str, MStr 4, Density Increase 1

Does 40l(34) per claw attack. Thats at 30 NPs.

[Alex Green]

Using the Rules of customisation...

Q3, 3 Immolates at 5 (Fire, Electricity, Earth - Linked to eachother to be turned on simotaniusly making them lvl 1 each), Claws5, 5 str, MStr 4, Density Increase 1

Does 40l(34) per claw attack.  Thats at 30 NPs.

Immolate does it's own damage, it doesn't stack with Strength. If you punch someone both the Strength and the Immolate are soaked seperately, just like if you both punched and q-bolted them.

Multiple immolates would also be soaked seperately (and that's if you find an ST who will let you buy them). And that level of Linkage is only -3 (you can't have both types of linkages, they do different things which aren't compatable).

Q4, Node 5, Str 5, M-Str 5(crush).

=5(45)L

A good start. Add to that...

1) 5 dots of claws give +5

2) Bodymorph(Hardsolid) for +2

3) It is possible to get to M-Str 6 with a starting character (Extreme Density).

4) For pure twinkyness, let's call this an ambush so he probably gets +5 succ from his to hit roll (we probably need Invisibility or something).

=17[50]L or call that 67L. ::devilangel

In terms of juice, it cost us...

2 for bodymorph

4 (at least) for Density Increase

20 for crush

2 for invisibility

1 for claws

So all it took was 29 points of juice.

Either he paid nova points for his q-pool or he burned life levels. ::halo

[Ayre el KaBeer]

If you punch someone both the Strength and the Immolate are soaked seperately,

I'm going to have to disagree on that since it's all part of one attack, it should stack.

[Bahamut810]

thats what I thought as well. your just putting more "force" behind it

[Nullifier]

I'd have to agree. I was under the impression that all that damage from a single attack roll stacked, and it's certain that you can use a single attack roll for the punch and do immolate damage as well. I don't know why you'd think it'd be soaked seperately.

[Alex Green]

If you punch someone both the Strength and the Immolate are soaked seperately,

I'm going to have to disagree on that since it's all part of one attack, it should stack.

It is not part of the same attack, any more than someone hitting you makes your immolate part of his attack. Immolate is always it's own attack (you just don't need to take an action to use it).

Immolate is a varient on Q-Bolt. It can be bashing, lethal, or Agg. It can be physical or energy. You can do Immolate damage by grabbing onto someone, touching them, or even by punching them. But no where does it say or even imply that the damage stacks (Book isn't handy for exact quote).

If you are doing 4 dice of Lethal energy damage from one attack, and 4[15] physical bashing from strength, then how exactly are you supposed to stack those? There are NO rules for stacking damage of different types because there are NO instances where that is possible.

Claws is the only power that even comes close (it stacks with strength) and as such it gives rules for doing that (strength is converted into lethal). We have (and needed) errata for dealing with Claws+Agg.

[Nullifier]

This is untrue. Bodymorph stacks damage on, as does Matter Chameleon. Also, as with claws, a lethal immolate translates any hth damage into lethal damage. I'm pretty sure that the Prof has been assuming that it stacks, if Glacier's attacks have been any indication...

[Bahamut810]

I always thought that stacking was assumed. You have x number of sources of damage (where x will usually be 2 or less) all hitting at the *exact* same time, with the *exact* same 'type' (lethal or bashing) of damage at the *exact* same place. The body wouldent have time to 'recover' its soak (which takes but an instant, but you still need that instant).

Its how you want...but all that (and lack of rules to say the contrary) should dictate that it would stack.

*Edit: what I had before sounded like a flame, unintensionally. So I changed it appropriatly.

[Alex Green]

This is untrue. Bodymorph stacks damage on...

Good catch. Bodymorph does stack damage, and specifically says that it does, as Immolate does not.

...so, as does Matter Chameleon.

Actually no, it doesn't. MC adds to Strength and can grant Claws, but it doesn't introduce any new mechanics itself. It doesn't stack any more than Boost does, they just make the unlying attack stronger.

Also, as with claws, a lethal immolate translates any hth damage into lethal damage.

That is the specific power mechanic granted to claws, but if you look for anything similar under Immolate you will find it just talking about a flat damage effect. Claws converts Strength to lethal, Immolate doesn't.

I'm pretty sure that the Prof has been assuming that it stacks, if Glacier's attacks have been any indication...

I have the opposite impression. Way back when he and I were going toe to toe, the claw effect and the immolate effect were described seperately. Glacier just has multiple lethal (cold) attacks.

[Alex Green]

I always thought that stacking was assumed.  You have x number of sources of damage (where x will usually be 2 or less) all hitting at the *exact* same time, with the *exact* same 'type' (lethal or bashing) of damage at the *exact* same place.  The body wouldent have time to 'recover' its soak (which takes but an instant, but you still need that instant).

So if I get hit by Thug #1 and Thug #2 at the same time their attacks stack? If they attack with the same initiative that could happen quit easily.

Immolate could easily have a different damage type than Strength. For that matter, it could have a different damage effect (Fire or electricity) that makes Invulnerability apply or not apply.

Most different case would be Immolate(energy)+AGG being used by someone with M-Str 2 (Bashing). He hits you, your soak is 20, you don't have AGG defenses, he does...

[2] Agg,

5[10] Bashing.

My reading on this is you have one "ping" die roll coming, and you just lost 2 life levels on top of that.

[Nullifier]

Actually, if you read the text of MC carefully, you'll see it can add damage effects without adding either claws or strength. Also, if being all spiky as per Body Modification translates all hth damage to lethal damage, than it makes sense that being completely surrounded by a lethal damaging effect should do the same. That's just common sense. If you're hit by a fist surrounded by burning-hot fire, it's the functunal equivalent to being hit by someone with the Claws power, which can itself easily be defined as having your fists surrounded by burning-hot fire.

[Nullifier]

After some consideration, and consultation with outside souces, it occurs to me that this is really a debate over the nature of the Immolate power. It seems that if Immolate produces a field that surrounds the body at a distance, even a small distance, than the damage effect wouldn't stack with the damage from a punch, and the punch damage wouldn't be converted to lethal. However, if the field Immolate produces is essentially contiguous with the top layers of skin, the damage effects would stack and the damage would be converted to lethal. Since the Immolate power's description requires actually physically touching the target, it seems like that latter is a more likely scenario, since if the field surrounded the body at a distance it wouldn't require actually physically touching the victim to damage them. Granted, that's just my take on the situation. ::bigsmile

[ConcreteDragon]

OK, Null, that sounds about right. EXCEPT---It would also depend on the type of NRG the Immolate uses. Kinetic energy might add to a punch (a feedback field), but an Acid or Poison Immolate wouldn't. While Fire and Electrical Immolate might affect the same area on the body, they are defended by different properties of the body than the kinetic NRG of the punch(Electrical affects the nervious system, while Fire does more surface tissue damage.) Your strenght doesn't determine how much heat or amps are generated by your punch.

In the end, I thing it's the ST's call.

[Alex Green]

Also, if being all spiky as per Body Modification translates all hth damage to lethal damage, than it makes sense that being completely surrounded by a lethal damaging effect should do the same. That's just common sense.

That same common sense would tell us a Mega-Strong nova can't pick up an ocean liner or ice burg, except that he can. Quantum Mechanics (as described in the rules book) trumps common sense.

If you're hit by a fist surrounded by burning-hot fire, it's the functional equivalent to being hit by someone with the Claws power, which can itself easily be defined as having your fists surrounded by burning-hot fire.

Not really. Now we are confusing power theme and special effects with the actual power. I get very nervous when someone says special effects of power "A" are the functional equiv of power "B" so they should do the same thing.

You could describe Claws, Immolate, that Body Mod as "Knives" or something similar. You could even do the same for some flavors of Quantum Bolt (no range) or Entangle. From the view point of a camera they all might even look the same. But their underlying quantum physics, and game effects (specifically including damage), could be very different.

It seems that if Immolate produces a field that surrounds the body at a distance, even a small distance, than the damage effect wouldn't stack with the damage from a punch, and the punch damage wouldn't be converted to lethal. However, if the field Immolate produces is essentially contiguous with the top layers of skin, the damage effects would stack and the damage would be converted to lethal. Since the Immolate power's description requires actually physically touching the target, it seems like that latter is a more likely scenario, since if the field surrounded the body at a distance it wouldn't require actually physically touching the victim to damage them.

Granted, Immolate could be described as a "skin tight" effect or with a range of a few inches. But allowing players to define the special effects of their powers to gain powerful in game advantages isn't a road we want to go down. This same line of reasoning would allow someone with Forcefield or Armor to claim that they couldn't be "touched" and are thus immune to all Range=Touch powers.

For the most part, player defined special effects have no effect on how powers interact (Invulnerability being the obvious exception). Forcefield can't be defined to prevent Poison, Quantum-Vampire, or Q-Leech from working, and Immolate can't be defined to allow "stacking"... regardless of what common sense might otherwise indicate.

This is done for uniformity, and to prevent the ST from having to explain to player "B" that player "A"'s power's do work much better than his (i.e. twice as much damage) because his power definition is cooler.

[Nullifier]

I'm not referring to special effects, Alex, but how the power is actually described to work in the book. That is, if you consider that the Immolate power requires actual physical contact to do damage, then the effect must be contiguous with the outermost layer(s) of skin. If this is the case, it seems likely that the damage from the Immolate and punch would be done at the same moment, in the same exact place and thus stack and convert damage as per Claws etc. If, however, you don't actually have to touch the person to damage them with Immolate, that is to say, if the field created by Immolate extends outwards from the skin, even by a few millimeters, then the damage effect happens at a diffierent time than the punch damage, and the effects don't stack and the damage doesn't get converted. Again, this isn't a function of special effects, just of how the power itself actually works. It doesn't really matter what form the damage itself takes unless the target has specific protections against that particular type of damage, as all lethal and bashing effects are soaked similarly.

[Alex Green]

In Abby, a range of touch doesn't mean mean litterally touching (otherwise the Forcefield power would prevent the Poison power from working).

Also, a nova can have both an inch thick forcefield, super-heavy armor, and a immolate field, and use all of them effectively at the same time.

*Nothing* in the rules says Immolate actually requires skin to skin contact (meaning the definition is indeed a special effect, whirling knives, spinning disks, or an electrical field), nor does Immolate actually say it stacks.

Between that, and the mixing of damage types, I think the implication is that they don't stack but are seperate attacks.

But I think it is now time to start quoting from the rules and mine aren't handy.

[Nullifier]

First of all, FFs are not described as being completely impermeable, only impermeable to damaging effects. This means that you can touch someone through a FF rather easily, and makes several of your arguments spurious.

Second, the issue we're all having stems from one particular line in the Immolate power decription on p.205, which I'll quote here for your edification: "...the nova can use a normal close combat attack (such as a punch) and also cause damage from Immolate without the use of Immolate counting a seperate action."

I'm not entirely sure that this implies anything either, but it does seem to point to the damage stacking, imho. The reason I think it points to this is because generally, and in every other case I can find, all the damage done in a single action stacks. It doesn't really say anything either way about converting the punch damage if the Immolate is lethal, and I'm not really sure about it after looking at the various rules, but my argument about it making a certain amount of sense still stands.

[Bahamut810]

So if I get hit by Thug #1 and Thug #2 at the same time their attacks stack?  If they attack with the same initiative that could happen quit easily.

Immolate could easily have a different damage type than Strength.  For that matter, it could have a different damage effect (Fire or electricity) that makes Invulnerability apply or not apply.

Most different case would be Immolate(energy)+AGG being used by someone with M-Str 2 (Bashing).  He hits you, your soak is 20, you don't have AGG defenses, he does...

[2] Agg,

5[10] Bashing.

My reading on this is you have one "ping" die roll coming, and you just lost 2 life levels on top of that.

As Nullifier pointed out, their attacks wouldent stack because its not 3 three things I said.

Might be the exact same time and type, but not *place*. Thats my test to see if damage stacks at least.

And it might just be the time to start your part of the rule-slinging...Nullifier has already started without you ::wink

::EDIT.

Just to clearify...my set up would be all the same kind of damage, claws make the STR attack lethal, the same as the immolate. I think that different types of damage dont stack.

[knave]

Surely the simple question is 'what is the source of the damage'. Claws modify the damage dealt by a punch - therefore the source of the damage is the modified punch.

A punch with immolate has two sources - 1) the punch, 2) the immolate.

Where is the conundrum?

[Bahamut810]

Surely the simple question is 'what is the source of the damage'.  Claws modify the damage dealt by a punch - therefore the source of the damage is the modified punch.

A punch with immolate has two sources - 1) the punch, 2) the immolate.

Where is the conundrum?

There is none. Immolate does damage when you touch an opponent (or they touch you). Its basically an enhanced version of claws. An physical attack (with claw) is a touch. Therefore it does damage in the exact same place, time and type, and stacks.

[Nullifier]

I don't really think that's the issue, Knave. The issue is that both sources are dealing damage through the same attack in the same action. Therefore, it seems logical that the since damage would be dealt all at once to the same exact spot it would stack and be of the same type. The source of damage is the attack itself, and it's certainly singular. I don't really understand how you could justify allowing a character to soak the Immolate seperately. It makes the power almost worthless in nova-level combat, as even at best it can only do 15dL, and any combat-oriented nova worth his phosphorous can easily soak that. Paradoxically, it also opens the door to doing more damage with a punch than might be the case if they stacked. Say a nova can soak the combined Imm and punch damage. If they're soaked seperately, and they both get the one free bashing die, the defending nova could take 2 bashing damage from a single attack that otherwise would only do a single bashing level. This would be the only example of a single attack action getting 2 free dice of bashing damage regardless of soak anywhere. I would argue that this weakens the case for seperate soaks for the punch and Immolate to the breaking point, since it is yet another example of how seperate soaks contradicts every other example of damage and soaking in the books.

[knave]

This is silly. Say your immolate is fire. Your nova walks around on fire. Touch me and I burn. Ow. Punch me and you don't punch me any harder. You hit me and you burn me. Quite straight forward. Mechanics don't come into it.

You are not allowed to define powers to be more powerful merely by describing them as X or Y - so your immolate can be be described as a 'kinetic burst', but it doesn't make it any different to the flame immolate except from the point of view of being soakable by soak that particularly soaks kinetics rather than flame.

Claws on the other hand MODIFY an existing attack. In this they are exactly like an enhancement - like Crush for ex.

It doesn't matter if Immolate is 'Wussy' if it doesn't stack. The simple fact is that it is another attack with its own rules for activation.

Farting and spurious logic could also both have the same point of origin, but they don't necessarily 'stack' although I could see how they'd both make you want to escape the area ::tongue

[Bahamut810]

Claws on the other hand MODIFY an existing attack. In this they are exactly like an enhancement - like Crush for ex.

How can an attack that is exactly like claws (wit hthe exception of area on the body, and damage) that hits the *exact* same place, with the *exact* same type of damage, at the *exact* same time not stack? I know the game dosent *have* to make 100% sense (well...non-aberrant sense), but there are times (like this) that I think we can use normal sense with.

In aberrant terms, If someone stabs you with a heated knife (straight from the blacksmiths fire), you feel the 'damage' (im using this loosly mind you, dont try this at home kids!). Are you saying that the 'heat' part of it wouldent worsen the damage you would take (like cauterising (sic) the wound and such)? Im sure you can agree to that, why dosent the same work with attacks then? Flaming claws are close to a heated knife after all. Thats just 'normal' sense that is compatable with 'aberrant' sense.

[Nullifier]

^

||

||

What he said.

That's actually what I've been trying to say, with little eloquence. Thanks Bahamut. ::bigsmile

[Alex Green]

There is none. Immolate does damage when you touch an opponent (or they touch you). Its basically an enhanced version of claws.

Wrong. Immolate is "a variant of Quantum Bolt" (page 205). Claws, btw, does NOT do damage "when you touch an opponent". Claws does extra damage with your punches and strikes. A generous ST might include kicks and clinches, but he also might not.

one particular line in the Immolate power description on p.205, which I'll quote here for your edification: "...the nova can use a normal close combat attack (such as a punch) and also cause damage from Immolate without the use of Immolate counting a separate action."

Granted. You'll notice it doesn't use the "stacked" text the other powers use. It doesn't say this damage adds to HTH or anything even close to that.

I'm not entirely sure that this implies anything either, but it does seem to point to the damage stacking, imho. The reason I think it points to this is because generally, and in every other case I can find, all the damage done in a single action stacks.

Exactly, Immolate damage is done without an action on your part. One of the big things about Immolate is that you don’t need to use an action to attack with it. If you do attack with your immolate (i.e. touch someone to do so), this adds your attack succ dice to immolate. Considering Immolate might be Lethal, or even Agg, those dice could be a big thing.

It doesn't really say anything either way about converting the punch damage if the Immolate is lethal

Most other powers also don’t say anything "either way".

Also, Stacking is such a useful thing that we shouldn't infer it. Immolate will also let you damage people with any other HTH attack, or "Also" as was quoted. This includes things like clinches.

Considering Immolate can do 15 lethal, or 20 bashing, or [5] Agg, it is a over the top amount to consider stacking. All the other sources in the book combined, and Maxed, total 7 dice. It is especially over the top since it doesn't say it stacks, and even more so when you consider that this damage also inflicts itself on anyone attacking you.

Immolate also makes no attempt what so ever to deal with any mixing of damage type issues. You have to re-write big parts of the book to add house rules for mixing types, or you have to re-write the power to give it big extra previously unwritten functionality by letting it convert damage, or you have to assume that it’s damage doesn’t stack.

Example: Immolate + Agg 5; Combined with Mega-Strength 3.

So what happens if he punches someone? If his HTH converts into Agg, then he just did 5[20]+succ Aggravated. Better still, with a multiple actions he could do that several times around. If it didn’t convert then we have no rules what so ever for mixing damage types.

[ConcreteDragon]

So, basicly, it comes down to this---game balance. Does Immolate give an excessive advantage to the player who bought it? Is it a power that every player must buy for their hero in order to keep up with the Mal's? Immolate is a level 2 power with a Quantum 2 min., are the abilities of Immolate (as discussed in this thread) the same or greater than the other level 2 attack powers? Mental blast? Poision? Quantum bolt? Telekinesis? ::confused

Mabey stacking could be an Extra for Immolate ::unsure

::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes --> ::rolleyes

P.S. Bahamut, try using your heated knife example on stone, metal, glass, earth water, ice, leather, gas, or any other possible targets. Just because flesh is susseptable(sic) to heat, that doesn't mean the attack should get a bonus vs. everything else.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

What's the difference between punching with an energy type claws and that same energy type with immolate? The energy field still comes out of the body and it still hits the same area, it is the same attack. If it doesn't stack then it makes it the least attractive damaging power of the entire list.

EDIT:

Page 205. "the nova can use a normal close combat attack (such as a punch) and also cause damage from immolate without the use of immolate counting as a separate action".

The rules have spoken ::wink

[knave]

Page 205. "the nova can use a normal close combat attack (such as a punch) and also cause damage from immolate without the use of immolate counting as a separate action".

The rules have spoken 

and you've heard exactly what you wanted to.

Just because you are not required to spend an action to 'attack' with something doesn't mean it stacks with what you did last. Someone jumping on you while you're immolated also doesn't involve you making an attack. They did, and they hurt themselves.

When you attack someone else you hit them AND they also happen to be affected by contact with your immolate. You spent 1 action.

This is not difficult, I can't believe so many people are convinced that it must be mega stacking just because they have vested interests in seeing it work that way or whatever.

As for bahamut. Sticking me with a burning knife could cause me less damage than not since the wound would be cauterised. Touching me with the outside of the knife would also give me a nasty burn, but that's really neither here nor there.

that hits the *exact* same place, with the *exact* same type of damage, at the *exact* same time not stack? I know the game dosent *have* to make 100% sense

The simple answer is that it is a 'different power', not a modification of an 'existing power'. Whatever you define the power as has no bearing on how it works except in regard to how it's defended against.

[Bahamut810]

The simple answer is that it is a 'different power', not a modification of an 'existing power'. Whatever you define the power as has no bearing on how it works except in regard to how it's defended against.

So...you are saying that a heated sword wont do any extra damage from the heat if a persons soak is higher then the heat damage? Dont be getting silly on us there...

And you still havent justified how something that hits at the *exact same place* at the *exact same time* with the *exact same type of damage* woulden't stack. "It dosent say 100% in the book, even though it implies" isent the best arguement. This isent a question of wether immolate will convert bashing damage to lethal, we seem to be in agreement that it dosent. Im sure we all agree that it wouldnet convert bashing/lethal damage to Aggrivated. Thats not what the power does. It damages with a touch (that is its range, touch).

Mathmatically...

To damage with immolate = touch

Clawing someone = Touch

Therefore...

Clawing someone = Damage with immolate.

By the test I have put forth above to determine wether to stack...

Is it at the exact same place (of the wound)?

-and-

Is it at the exact same time (of attack)?

-and-

Is it the exact same type (of damage)?

Like I said...common sense that is compatable with Aberrant-sense.

[Alex Green]

What's the difference between punching with an energy type claws and that same energy type with immolate? The energy field still comes out of the body and it still hits the same area, it is the same attack.

So if I've got someone in a clinch, and I split my action and q-bolt them, the Clinch damage and the Q-Bolt damage stack?

This "*exact same place & time*" argument is badly mistaken. If you have Immolate up and I attack you with a sword, or a chain, or even a lamp post, I take damage. Immolate is NOT "touching the skin", it is "surrounding the body".

If it doesn't stack then it makes it the least attractive damaging power of the entire list.

That doesn't pass the "So what" argument, nor is it true.

Uniquely, immolate is the only power that attacks without you making an action. Also Uniquely, It is both an offensive and a defensive power. Like the other powers it can have extras, including Agg and Area (both very nasty), or even reflexive.

Let's look at modest stats. One dot of Immolate(lethal) and a Q of 4.

Say you are being attacked by an army of sword wielding ninjas and/or a mob of chain wielding mitoids. Against most, they could overwhelm the nova with shear numbers (via 'ping' damage if nothing else). But baselines don't soak lethal damage. Anyone who attacks you will take 2[4] and is effectively out of the fight. Anyone who attacks you twice, even from a multiple attack, will die from it. More than likely they will flee rather than fight it out.

Same example, but for 3 exp he updates to "Agg". Now he does [1] (not one die) of Agg damage per attack or if he is attacked. Doing Aggravated damage with a maintenance power is extremely strong.

With a Martial Arts or speed themes, he attack three or four times a round... and if he wants to be really annoying he could attack with his Immolate itself. Now his three attacks all get accuracy bonuses. If he is built around this kind of thing his opponent could be looking at taking 15[3] Aggravated. That's roughly the same as disintegrate, but this is a maintenance power.

[Bahamut810]

Immolate is NOT "touching the skin", it is "surrounding the body".

But its area of affect is self. Also "...anyone touching the nova takes...". So the range is inessence, touch.

So if I've got someone in a clinch, and I split my action and q-bolt them, the Clinch damage and the Q-Bolt damage stack?

I dont think that would be possible. To clinch you have your arm over the place that you are 'damaging' You would have to Q-bolt through your arm to do so,which I guess might be possible. Again this comes down to the test...

Is it at the exact same place (of the wound)? If he can shoot it out of his arm, then yes, otherwise no

-and-

Is it at the exact same time (of attack)? Yes (all in the same attack)

-and-

Is it the exact same type (of damage)? no...clinches do bashing damage, unless you crush