opnet [OpNet] Nova Legislation

[Asche]

I have a question for all of you out there? Do you think Nova Legislation is the answer to many of the problems between Baselines and Novas?

I mean, what for instance, would it take to get a Nova to stand up and start the ball rolling toward a government or legislation run BY Nova's and FOR Novas?

Is it merely that most of you out there fear the spotlight? Or perhaps its Mal you fear?

I'm curious about this as it seems that quite a bit of the negative PR the Nova's are getting are due largely in part to groups like Nova Vigilance and the Primacy, If someone were to stand up and offer to be a figurehead for Novas, maybe they could get some legislation passed and the Terats would stop whimpering.

I often ponder this and decided I would try out my "Anti-Flame" filter.

[Dr. Arcturus]

That's actually a rather interesting question, one that has a lot of conditions to think about (we all know what they are).

For my part, I believe Novas should have extra-national status, but not under the authority of any governing body, Nova or otherwise. For one thing, there are simply far too many factions within the Nova community who run at odds with one another ( Utopia and the Teragen spring to mind with blazing banners), something that turns this question into much more than "Should WE have our own goverment". It instead becomes "If WE had a goverment....who would run it?". I simply can not imagine a setting in which Caestus Pax and Divis Mal are sitting at a round table, rationaly discussing the issues facing all Novas. I almost always imagine Pax losing his temper and Mal losing his patience with him, and its just goes downhill from there, doesn't it folks?

[Hugin]

Asche I will attempt to reply to your nicely worded query with every attempt to be honest and forthright without being as rude as I am sure I tend to be.

I agree completely that there is a need for Novas to seperate themselves from baseline society and form one of our own. Once we do this and given the time necessary to raise a few generations of Novas whom have never experienced baseline life and whom have been raised by Novas with a similar lack of contact with baselines, perhaps then we will truly understand what it is to be Nova. Now, I will not beat this drum anymore as I tended to in the past.

The phrasing of your questions seemed to be asking 'why not'? I am afraid that is easy to answer. Right now, Novas come from every imaginable baseline background possible. As a whole we do not have a unifying ethnicity, religion, political upbringing, cultural base or even language with which to cling to one another. This does not make for an easy time at the negotiation table.

Our vast physical and mental differences add on to this already troublesome situation. I do not know you, this I readily admit. However, chances are that you cannot begin to even fathom those intellectual heights where I spend my waking moments. It is very likely so far beyond you that imagination would not even begin to serve. Likewise, with my limited physical enhancements I have a hard time comprehending, truly understanding, what life must be like for Strobe.

The obstacles in our path dwarf the difficulties that would be presented by bringing to our bosom those groups that are seperated from us by mere political leanings, such as the Primacy. But, we are Nova. If any is up to the challenge, it is we. What we lack most is a leader. I would sooner eviscerate myself with a melon baller than follow Pax into anything more complex than a game of duck-duck-goose. Mal, from what those who would know tell me, is uninterested in taking up the reins of leadership.

Stobe, I feel the need to make a point. Utopia is not, I repeat for I feel the need to make myself abundantly clear, *not* a faction of Nova society. It is an organization run by baselines and for the most part, *for* baselines. I say this not in judgement on their policies, as we do have members of that august body who have expressed dismay at the casual attacks against said group that so frequently occur here. I merely mention it out of a need to clarify what I believe to be a gross misunderstanding of the place that Utopia holds within our society.

I ache to see what some of our other honored brothers and sisters will write on the subject. Next?

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Strobe:
I simply can not imagine a setting in which Caestus Pax and Divis Mal are sitting at a round table, rationaly discussing the issues facing all Novas. I almost always imagine Pax losing his temper and Mal losing his patience with him, and its just goes downhill from there, doesn't it folks?

Possibly, but I can forsee a decent start by employing Novas such as Geisha and Raoul Orzaiz. It's not simply a matter of power, that comes to the enforcement process, but rather who you would trust to legislate the laws and who you would trust to juror them once in place. Nobody is going to trust Pax in such a capacity. That's a given. Perhaps a few more would trust Mal.

In reality, though, what we need are clear heads, rationale minds, and most importantly, patient spirits.

[Guest]

Assuming novas could make any kind of progress in this venture, how long do you think it would take before baselines (through the Directive and Utopia) started freaking out. The Teragen poses virtually no united front at all and look at all the flak they get. Not that I give a flaming crap what zippers think but building a nation would just put too many of us in the same place at the same time and we'd be too big of a target for my tastes.

[Dr. Arcturus]

I'm not certain that the opinions of baselines should bear any weight in the right of Novas to form a nation. I know many of you will disagree with me on this point, but the raw power and talent at our disposal simply nullifies any bearing their authority may have on the outcome of said issue. The other point to remember is that we are not human. By that statement alone, most of you have likely conjectured my strong Teragen leanings. I dont know that this should make my views any less valid, for, as one of you has already pointed out, the Teragen does not actually have a united "front" we rally behind. In any event, we are a different species from Man, and as such, I dont see how baselines can have any power to affect the courese of our destinies. I think actions should be taken against those who would rise against us, though.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Strobe:
I know many of you will disagree with me on this point, but the raw power and talent at our disposal simply nullifies any bearing their authority may have on the outcome of said issue. In any event, we are a different species from Man, and as such, I dont see how baselines can have any power to affect the courese of our destinies. I think actions should be taken against those who would rise against us, though.

The simple fact of the matter is this: the only authority baselines hold over the One Race is that which we give to them. The Zurich Accord exists because in our infancy, we wished so desperately to be considered part of that which we were familiar with that we didn't think to dispute it. At the time, there were scant hundreds of us, most of whom had no true comprehension of their abilities and even less comprehension of how much different they were from those they didn't want to be alienated from.

We allowed Project Utopia to happen because we, as a race, wanted it to be there. And to be fair to its ideals, there is nothing inherently wrong with the idea of Nova and baseline working together to better the planet. It's been beaten into the ground about how Utopia has failed this goal, but that's beside the point. Utopia exists because we, as a race, wanted it to.

Saying that, we have to accept the fact that the majority of us are content with the status quo. You wouldn't know that from the population of this Forum, but the average Nova is happy with things being the way they are. It's not easy asking them to give up seven-plus figure salaries and untold adolation in the name of some great social experiment that they don't truly believe in.

Until the majority of us come to the understanding that yes, we are a different species and through this, must separate ourselves from baseline society before the two races can truly live alongside one another, things like Utopia will continue to exist as they do today. Sadly, this will likely only come about when a) we are able to offer security of lifestyle akin to what they already know, or are threatened sufficiently by baseline authority/society that they have no choice to recognize their inherent differences.

In either option, this is hardly an ideal start to a new civilization.

Education. Separation. Integration. Think about it.

[Guest]

Strobe,

While I don't disagree with the Teragen view of our obvious superiority, such arrogance can be disasterous. A truly great person recognizes his limitations along with his strengths. One of us may be equal to thousands of baselines, but we are still outnumbered. I'm not necessarily saying it would come down to a face-to-face confrontation anyway. Always be prepared for the worst case scenario to ensure your survival. With that said, I must reinterate my prior comment about a flaming crap.

[Asche]

OK good ideas and inspiration. The mediator suggestion with Geisha and Orzaiz is a very good idea. Lets presume that there are ways, non-violent ways, to quell the uprising of baseline resistance to a Nova legislation. This done, what type person would you see fit to where the crown, so to speak, of the Kingdom of the Node?

Obviosly not Mal or Pax, although they apparently CAN handle the mantle of leadership, but perhaps one with similar ruthlessness (to get what needs to be done done) and some one with a good media presence. Face it, no matter what accords were signed and no matter what was promised in the past, all it takes is a good word for some Novas and Nova's will have their society. Can't you work out the inside seperatists (in your new Nova Nation) after the fact? I mean, look, the baselines had all of the problems in the early days as well. And look at them now.

[Ashnod]

No one Nova can wear the crown. If you organize things in such a fashion, eventually the matter of Nova government boils down to straight quantum power again. Should this happen, you are left with nothing more than a dictatorship at worst, and a monarchy at best (if such a thing is best), but in both circumstances, the potential contenders to power would be frequent and most of the resources of that nation would be used into quelling challengers to the "throne."

Eventually, just to enforce peace amongst us, you would have Pax or Mal on the throne, simply because the chances of unseating them would be so minimal as opposed to the majority of others. None of us truly want that. With the span of our lives uncertain, but most certainly longer than baseline life, you're speaking of a reign that could last thousands of years with a single person sitting in the seat of power. Such governments tend to be static and oppressive under baseline leadership, and I can't imagine Nova leadership would alter this fact much in the weight of just how long the ruling figure could remain in power, and what lengths he/she might go to retain that power.

In the end, it has to be a body of government where there is more than one individual responsible. I'm not saying something modeled after the American government, but most certainly something closer to that than a single figurehead.

[Guest]

Why does there have to be one nova at the top? There are other types of government. A self-governing autonmous commune springs to mind (help, I'm being repressed) as one option. One nova, one vote. Though as novas, I believe we've already been handed the keys to the kingdom already. Why the need for a nation anyway? There are enough baseline governments trying to control us, what is the difference if it's a nova goverment doing the controlling? Are you just looking for safety in numbers? If so just "dorm down" and put your head in the sand. I can stand on my own.

[Dr. Arcturus]

Staying on this world and establishing a Nova goverment is obviously quite desirable, it isn't the only option available to us by a long shot. Think of the endless number of worlds adrift in the universe, untainted (excuse the pun) by the presense off an existing population. If power work-outs are what some of you are looking for, I can think of no challenge greater to a Nova than terraforming a world devoid of life essential elements. Hell, there may only ever be one Nova living on a world, but that certainly eliminates potential for war, doesn't it?

[Argent_]

For once, I find myself in agreement with Strobe, at least in principle; with the capabilities at Novakind´s disposal, what would stop them from expanding out into the hiherto unknown, creating a new society without the "shackles" of Baseline humanity?

If your primary goal is to exist in a separate legislation from humanity, why not pull a Genesis and do what needs to be done to create a new habitat, or discover a good alternative? Is there some inherent drive to contend with the Baselines about the territory of this lone planet (evolutionary machismo, so to speak)?

[Guest]

How can we abandon humanity? I am weary of novas who think "I am a nova now and no longer baseline, so I was never baseline." We are the ideal that all humanity can strive towards. Baselines are still in their infancy. Do you abandon children because they are willful, or do you teach them and nurture them? A happy accident does not, of itself, make us special.

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: Exon ]

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: Exon ]

[Dr. Arcturus]

I disagree completely. Because we are Novas, we are supposed to be the living ideal of a lower order of beings? That completely negates your comment about a "random accident" not being speacial, in and of itself. Realise that baselines, BY DEFINITION, do not have the potential to become Novas. Aspire they may, but they can never reach the level we exist at. Personally, I dont feel the need the coddle this "infant" race, nor do I any longer feel the need to stay in an enviorment I constantly face either admiration or animosity by beings I can not count among my equals. Had I the means, I would leave this world tommorow.

[Hugin]

Exon, I would like to chime in on a couple of your points.

First of all, I believe you misrepresent the prevailing viewpoint of those of us who consider Novas a seperate race from baselines. If you want to get technical yes, those of us born with the potential for eruption were never *truly* baselines. However, I do not think that technicality is what drives our philosophy. Yes, I am a Nova and I do consider myself completely seperate from baseline humanity. I do believe that I used to be a baseline however. I am not anymore. Many individuals whom I have communicated with who share the belief that we are seperate from humanity do not deny that they used to be baselines. They simply recognize that they have changed and they recognize that with that change in what they are came a change in what they could and/or should do with their lives. I feel that you exaggerate our position in an attempt to weaken it. Perhaps you do not do this consciously, but regardless, I feel that you do us a disservice.

Now, as to looking at baseline humanity as a 'child' race. I see them as anything but. If anyone should be considered children, is should be us, the Novas. Our potential is untapped and waiting to be explored. Much as life's potential awaits a child. No, baseline humanity are not children and I refuse to see them as such. I will not relieve them of the responsibility they have to support themselves, to govern their own actions and to repair their own planet. Children they are not. We have spent too much energy dragging them back from the edge of oblivion to allow them the luxury of being considerd children.

My specific little gripes aside, I am enjoying your comments. It is nice to see that spark has not died out in recent months.

[Dr. Arcturus]

Here, here

[Ashnod]

I personally do not see the importance of considering yourself at one time a baseline. Most of us are going to erupt at a very young age in terms of our total lifespan. If you erupt at 20, and live to be 200, you're talking about 1/10 of your life at most. If you're lucky, you will remember 15 of those 20 years. If your lifespan ends up being far longer, then you're now talking about an even smaller fraction of time.

The only reason our unerupted span of years is important is to baselines; that we will consider these years to be precious somehow, or that they might prevent our transhuman development by making us sympathize with those not quantum born. I cannot stress this enough. The only reason that most of us focus on it, and therefore debate whether or not baselines and Novas are the same race, is because we did not know we would one day erupt.

However, and those of you preparing to be parents must understand this: our children will not have this uncertainty. They will be born to a Nova parent(s), understand what they will eventually become if not born erupted, and will wonder why the question of Nova versus baseline nature ever existed in their progenitor generation.

It is only us, the first generation, that will have these doubts.

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Ashnod ]

[Hugin]

Ashnod, my own experiences with second generation Novas is fairly limited and of an unusual enough set of circumstances that I cannot consider it a viable base for expectation for other cases. Have you any experience in this field? I would be most interested in gathering whatever pertinent data you might possess. With the sterility 'problem' having been brought to the attention of the masses I hope that enough work and effort will be expended so that in a short time Novas will have the same rate of reproduction as the baseline population. This being the case I would not mind having the opportunity to prepare some necessary procedures to deal with Nova children. Can you imagine a child going through the terrible two's who possessed the destructive potential of a small tactical nuke?

[Stheno]

"our children will not have this uncertainty. They will be born to a Nova parent(s), understand what they will eventually become if not born erupted, and will wonder why the question of Nova versus baseline nature ever existed in their progenitor generation."

That is a fascinating statement. Might I ask as to the basis for it ?

I do not remember ever being a baseline. That does not prevent me from feeling a need to ask the "question of nova versus baseline nature".

(My apologies for the curtness of this post, but my time is limited.)

[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: Stheno ]

[Fortune's Son]

I'm not the Lady herself, but since she hasn't elaborated I'm willing to provide my own take on it.

I use to think statements like this were rationalizing. Ways to justify whatever the speaker's positions were and thereby lend legitimacy to their philosophies. Matter of fact, I was talking with a friend and explaining to her how and why I thought these statements were such utter bullshit. Her response, filtered through my crappy mememory and failure to speak french very well, went something like this;

So limited, mon cher. Imagine if you will, a child born among the clouds and sunlight. Born free of gravity and it's chains. A child for whom movement is a thing of willpower and grace, rather than muscle and coordination.

Now picture such a child on the verge of becoming an adult, with that unique certainty and supreme confidence that only the young and the mad possess. At this moment try and explain to them the mindset of those who have never known, and will never know, such freedom. Explain to them the concept of walking. Discourse on the need for they to learn this useless skill that they may be accepted as one of the flightless beings below.

Will this magnifique child exclaim in wonderment? Will they scowl in distaste at the very idea? Will they howl with laughter?

Of this you may be certain; in that moment they will realize that they are not one of those scrabbling in the dust below. They will know that they are different."

Sylvie's gone now. She missed last call and lost her life on a nothing op, performed for a nothing reason and a wad of money not worth the loss. We argued for hours about this, and other things, but I knew.

Sylvie was right.

[Jordan]

Jack, I'm sorry about your loss. Your friend is absolutely right. The children of novas are going to grow up knowing they are different from baselines, even if they can't control Quantum from birth. That isn't really the issue though.

Everyone here is assuming that different is better (or worse depending on which side of the Quantum fence you happen to be on). It's not, not always. Different is just different and to teach a child anything else is a grave mistake.

On the one hand, we have to teach baselines (and baseline kids) that just because a guy has horns doesn't mean he is bad/evil/whatever. On the other hand, we also have to teach Novas (and Nova kids) that someone who doesn't have horns isn't bad/evil/whatever either. Catch my drift?

Look people, it's a small world and it's getting smaller daily. We all have to learn to share and get along (even if it's just being able to agree to disagree) or were all going to end up as dust.

[Hugin]

Jordan I applaud your sentiments, I just wonder at the likelihood of their fruition. Baselines have not been able to effectively teach their children that just because someone doesn't bow down to Allah or Jehovah as they do doesn't make them evil. They can't even teach them that just because that man over there has a different shade of skin or a different way of loving that he isn't evil. Isn't expecting them to teach that we, Novas, who are much more fundamentally different from them than any of the petty differences they see now amongst themselves, are not 'wrong' expecting simply too much?

[Jordan]

That may be Prodigy but no one has ever tried it on a large scale so who really knows for sure?

I did notice that you failed to mention anything about the flipside of this coin however. What are Novas doing to teach tolerance? Didn't you say your raised some Nova kids once? How did you handle that problem?

Perhaps instead of pointing at baselines and saying "They are not doing that goddammit!" we should look to ourselves and say "Why am I not doing this goddammit!"

It's way too easy to point fingers at the other side. You say we're superior, prove it by your actions and strength of character. Well my two cents anyways.

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Jordan Rossi ]

[Alex McKenzie]

While your idealism is admirable, Jordan, as a baseline I can't see this happening.

Two problems which I consider insurmountable at this point in time:

• Freedom to hate. Let's face it, in the Western World, we've encouraged a culture that in turn encourages free thought. The problem is when those with false information think freely. GIGO. And note, this is not restricted to Baselines, or even baselines with low intelligence. I've met otherwise intelligent people who are almost one step removed from becoming Michaelites (or KKK members).
• Plain Jealousy. To paraphrase the old Movies, "Jealousy leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering". Humans seem to have it hard-wired into their minds to want that which it does not have. And what human wouldn't want what a nova has? Apart from the reality-bending, you got the fame, fortune, adoration of millions, etc. Down in Australia, we call it the Tall Poppy Syndrome, and as I said, it seems inherant in the world. We seem to enjoy seeing those above us fall, even if it's just in our own mind.

Just a little something to think about.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex McKenzie:
While your idealism is admirable, Jordan, as a baseline I can't see this happening.

As a baseline?

Really?

[Alex McKenzie]

Oops.

Sorry, still getting used to the idea of being a nova. You'd think after 6 months It'd be right in my personal image, but no.

I should have said "ex-baseline", considering that my perspective is still very much baseline. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Hugin]

Just wanted to verify that what I had heard was not simply gossip.

[Jager]

[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: Jager ]

[Jager]

[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: Jager ]

[Teknokat]

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
Just wanted to verify that what I had heard was not simply gossip.

Hmm. So, which way exactly did it verify? I'm curious to know.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
I already know Bounty's answer. She 'sterilizes' the 'unsuccessful side-effects'. After all, there are 100,000 baseline children born every day to counter the young nova lives she engenders. She believes that she can't 'waste her time' bringing baseline life into a world that is hostile to her own kind.
What would you be prepared to do? (As for how I know that last little bit; let's just say I have recently seen some things that, quite frankly, I didn't want to see as well as recieving some answers to a few questions I had been asking and well as some others I should have been asking.)

Lies.

Period.

[Jordan]

Since Bounty isn't here to prove or disprove either statement and neither Jager or Ashnod have the right to speak for her, why don't we just drop this part of the discussion right now. Period.

Alex, I'm no optimist. I didn't say people will start raising their kids better, just that they should. It's not my place to demand that of anyone, I was mearly speaking hypothetically.

The plain truth is we all have to take responibility for our own actions. No one makes anyone do anything. If novas want a society of their own, those novas will have to work at it, not wait around for someone to hand it to them, yet what do they do? Nothing. It's sad really.

[Hugin]

CopyKat-Some of us simply make an effort to stay informed. In doing so I occasionally come across tidbits of information. I collect data the way some people collect stamps or old comic books. I treasure information as it reveals so much more than the surface may suggest.

For example, the young man in question is correct when he admits that his baseline status is now a thing of the past. But, mutterings have been heard that suggest that the alternitive descriptive one might assume might not be altogether accurate.

Curious, no?

Jager y Ashnod- My lovelies, please do not get into a tussle over this issue.

Jager-Your claims do sound fantastic. While I am not intimite with Bounty this does not quite sound like the Nova I have heard such wonderful things about.

Ashnod-We both know that those of us that we hold near and dear because we admire their dedication to the One Race do not always possess completely pure intentions. I have been disapointed in the past to find a Terat of gleaming virtue possessing some hidden and vile habits.

[Jager]

[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: Jager ]

[Guest]

Hello everyone, my names is Gareth Mayweather and just last month I erupted. An associate of mine pointed me in the direction of this electronic forum and I have to say, it's been an interesting read so far.

I do not wish to burden you with yet more questions that have already been asked and answered by my fellow novas here, but I find this topic most fascinating. Should Novas form their own society? Is it needed?

I suppose my question is two fold. Haven't novas already created their own society, of sorts? I mean, the cultures and societies of the world are already so dependent on novas that many would fall apart if we were to dissapear. They spend so much time, energy and resources catering to us and we have influenced them so much, I have to wonder who's society and culture they truly remain?

On the other hand, I wonder how we would be able to handle a completely nova society. I mean there are around 10,000 novas world wide right? Thats 10,000 incredibly inflated egos. Who, out of all of those individuals would everyone else agree to follow? Who would establish this societies laws, morals and economic base? who would perform all of the menial taks that novas have had handled for them for so long?

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, I think a fostering of nova oriented culture is ideal, I mearly wonder how practical it really is.

[Jager]

[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: Jager ]

[Vile Bill]

Hell Bra, count me in as one of those Novas who can't live without baselines. Fuck, what, am I supposed to cook my own meals? Fuck that noize.

Naw man, I make money so other grunts can do the boring shit for me. I don't wanna build houses or make cars or serve up Big Fuckin' Macs. Thats what the other jokers are for.

Me? I want money, I want babes and I want to go out and kick the living shit out of some billy badass everyonce in awhile and get paid for it.

Screw seperation. Imitation ain't the sincerest form of flattery. Some blonde doing things that'd make her mother cry and her father go git his gun, that's goddamn flattering.

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Quothe the raven:
...some of us... others ... Some others... Still others... To some...Others...

Wow.

It must have taken some serious soul searching with a heaping helping of guts to come out of the closet and take a hardline stand like that J-man.

Glad to hear the psychotropics are working out for you. And to think that there are doctors that believe drugs sap your intellect and personality.

[ 04-27-2002: Message edited by: Jack Chance ]

[Teknokat]

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