Aberrant: Cognizant Chimera - CC: Game Mechanics

[Alex Green]

I'm still in chacter creation and I have a question.

What is the difference between Molecular Manipulation and Matter Creation?

With MM, could I turn a 1$ into a 50$?

[Bahamut810]

Its the same as the difference between Elemental Anima and Elemental Mastery from what I remember. Basically do you make or just change it?

[Alex Green]

But E-Anima & E-Control have different Quantum Minimums.

Anima also only lets you control what is already there, so no element = no power.

There are ALWAYS molecules around to manipulate.

[ProfPotts]

Not my game ::wink , but by the books:

Molecular Manipulation works on unliving 'objects', or (in the case of Molecular Alteration) unliving 'solids or liquids' - not gases. You, specifically, can't create things 'out of thin air'. Matter Creation, obviously, can. Elemental Authority & the Transmutation technique are generally required to start messing around with gasses on a molecular level.

Turning a $1 bill into a $10 bill would usually require the level of Art which would be needed to forge a $10 bill in the first place (just less equipment) - & the result would still be a forgery - just as accurate as your roll happens to indicate.

[brilyn]

As examples:

When Derek turned the swimming pool into Beer, that was Molecular Mastery. When he disintegrated all the weapons the MI guys were carrying, that was Molecular Mastery.

When he created the miniLab to diagnose the effects of Virus, that was Matter Creation.

They both *rock*, imo..... ::biggrin

All Derek needs now is more than 1 dot in each.... ::wink

[Alex Green]

Turning a $1 bill into a $10 bill would usually require the level of Art which would be needed to forge a $10 bill in the first place (just less equipment) - & the result would still be a forgery - just as accurate as your roll happens to indicate.

But Matter Creation could easily (if temp) create a $50.

Different question then. At what point does "immune to your own powers cut in?"

Can M-Creation create (an be immune to) a poison gas? A gun?

Can Molecular Manip turn a brick into a brick of uranium and be immune to the radiation?

[Bahamut810]

That depends...

If you can throw fire...are you immune to the building that falls in on you when it burns down? Or the fire from it?

I think in the case you described...you would be vunerable to the aftereffects of the materials...i.e. radiation.

I would rule differently for gasses though...a gas is made specifically for one purpose and dosent have an after effect (like radiation) in most cases.

thats it...after effects...Your immune to to what you make but not what it makes.

[malkboy]

Let me list my example of this situation...

See Storm Knight with his weather Manipulation. He calls upon the city a hurricane and all the rains and winds that go with it... Does he get wet?

Bahamut810 wins the cookie for being correct in that regard.

The differences ProfPotts got there correcetly.

Sorry guys, I've been trying to post from my laptop the last few days and it just wasn't happening. I didn't even try checking earlier this morning. If you sent me a PM, I'll get back to you ASAP.

-malk

[ezekiel]

Turning a $1 bill into a $10 bill would usually require the level of Art which would be needed to forge a $10 bill in the first place (just less equipment)

Are you just talking about Molecular alteration? I always thought of Matter Creation as in Green Lantern or Felix the Cat...got a wish? You got it...

The makers of those new Felix cartoons just HAD to be on something when they made those.

[Heritage]

Malkboy - I sent you a bunch of emails about my character, which you may not have read, due to your laptop problems. I'm going to send the 'final' version (contingent on your approval, especially since I didn't have my books with me) as an email attachment, but I'll also send a version (minus the snazzy photo) as a PM, just to cover all bases.

Hope to jump in soon!

And a note on Matter Manip - in a game I ST'ed, this power was way lethal, though I'm still not sure if I ran it right (which is quite possible). On one occasion, the MMer turned bad guy Nux Vomica's puke green Spandex body stocking into 1" thick titanium - Nux toppled forward and broke both his wrists.

True, without spending willpower, it's not permanant, but my God. "I'm going to turn this metal bench into a laser rifle; I've got enough successes, see?" I suck at math and my players were scientists and programers, so it's possible they were just running circles around me logically.

"Oh, intercourse the penguin!"

[Nullifier]

I'd think that stuff attuned to another nova kinda counts as part of 'em, and therefore can't be transmuted with any effect that couldn't transmute them. Thus turning the guy's clothing into titanium works only if it isn't eufiber/isn't attuned.

Think 'bout it, and try not to let your players walk all over you. ::bigsmile ::wink

[Obsidian Shade]

Erm, got a question: If our fresh young novas meet each other, do they get something like the "highlander-effect" (to sense other quantum sources)? Cause in the Direktive book there is something descripted as this. And my little one encountered no nova before. He should get a headache? ::unsure

[Asbjørn]

I don't know if it feels like a headache, but you can use your node rating to detect other novas. I don't think it normally happens unconsciously, though, but I guess freak manifestations of abilities in a newly erupted nova are pretty common...

By the way, Shade... How long have you been learning that school english?

[Heritage]

I'd think that stuff attuned to another nova kinda counts as part of 'em, and therefore can't be transmuted with any effect that couldn't transmute them. Thus turning the guy's clothing into titanium works only if it isn't eufiber/isn't attuned.

Think 'bout it, and try not to let your players walk all over you.

It was just plain old Spandex and Nux didn't have Attunement - he was a very low-rent who just had the power to make people nauseous, but it is a good point to bring up. In my second Abbie campaign I forbade Matt Manip, but in my new one I allowed everything but Level 5 and 6 powers, and I'm trusting both myself and my players to keep things in line.

Plus that player's not in my new game - in a friend's Abbie game, I understand he's working on 'Aggravated Telepathy' to bypass Willpower completly ::wacko His ST's not buying it, though ::biggrin

[Obsidian Shade]

No Highlander feeling? It's a pity ::halo I don't know exactly, but I think it was five or six years of school english (I wasn't really good). Then I lost close contact with this language till I stumbled over Aberrant.

Btw: I'm using a online translator and LEO for my postings in CC.

LEO

Free Translation

[brilyn]

Obisidian, the mechanic for that sort of thing in the Main Aberrant book is as follows:

Check your Node score.

If '0', then there's nothing you can do.

If '1' or more, you can roll your node. If you roll 1 success you detect all quantum signatures out to 10m times your Node score. People with Dormancy, who are dormed down, are harder to locate.

Examples:

Bob has Node 2. He rolls 1 success. He can 'ping' all Novas to a range of 20m. Any Nova with 1 dot of Dormancy (and is dormed down) won't be spotted by him.

Freddie has Node 5. He rolls 5 successes. He can 'ping' all Novas to a range of 50m, including any nova with 4 or less in Dormancy.

How precisely this works is down to the individual storyteller. I usually leave it as vague as "you detect x Quantum sources in the area", and that's all the info they get.

[Alex Green]

RE: 'Aggravated Telepathy'

Pretty much a waste of points. Aggravated doesn't bypass defenses, it bypasses SOAK, and it does AGG damage. Telepathy isn't soaked, and it doesn't do damage. This goes a long way to explain why Mental Blast + AGG hasn't acquired errata about it. Anna DeVries' attack against 1 dot of Psi-Shield would ignore the Shield's soak abilities, but the shield also grants 2 autosucc on the willpower roll, which still works.

Similarly, my new character has Clone, and I looked hard at the "Merged" extra from the APG. Unfortunately, "Merged" doesn't merge effects, it merges SUCC. So Q-Bolt + Merged is no where near as nasty as I thought. At best you would get +5 acc from all your extra succ. Against most people you would be better off with 2 q-bolts.

And a note on Matter Manip - in a game I ST'ed, this power was way lethal, though I'm still not sure if I ran it right (which is quite possible). On one occasion, the MMer turned bad guy Nux Vomica's puke green Spandex body stocking into 1" thick titanium - Nux toppled forward and broke both his wrists.

True, without spending willpower, it's not permanent, but my God. "I'm going to turn this metal bench into a laser rifle; I've got enough successes, see?" I suck at math and my players were scientists and programmers, so it's possible they were just running circles around me logically.

Eufiber is alive so it is immune to MM. I'd guess that attunement would allow the clothes to have an resistance roll (vs Willpower). "Part of the Nova" or not, his clothes are not alive and are therefore a legal target. I wouldn't mind (and would be in favor of) a house rule saying that "Part of the Nova" is the same as alive. This would also prevent MM from turning the fillings in people teeth into bad things.

The next question is what happens. The "Titanium" in this case would presumably be limited in soak and health with the same rules from Matter Creation. Against most novas, this would just slow them down (and make them naked).

Another question is whether a nova with Matter Creation could do this.

RE: Creation of a laser.

This is the sort of thing I was talking about. I see no reason why this couldn't be done with MM (if they have some engineering and firearms and/or heavy weapons as skills). Again I'd limit the damage it could do via the Matter Creation rules.

[brilyn]

I disagree with the requirement on the Firearms and/or Heavy Weapons.

Both of which primarily deal with how to use such weapons, which is radically different from making them.

This is rather the whole point of the Engineering skill. It's all about the making, not the using.

As an absurd example (but follows on from your example), does one require dots in Drive to create a Car with Matter Creation?

I do totally agree on the cap due to skill.

[Nullifier]

There is one other way to spot other novas besides a node roll. The Quantum Attunement Enhancement for Mega-Perception will also spot a nova. ::bigsmile

[Prince of Boredom]

Similarly, my new character has Clone, and I looked hard at the "Merged" extra from the APG. Unfortunately, "Merged" doesn't merge effects, it merges SUCC. So Q-Bolt + Merged is no where near as nasty as I thought. At best you would get +5 acc from all your extra succ. Against most people you would be better off with 2 q-bolts.

I've lloked at this for a home campaign. You're right on the Q Bolt example, but it does work well with mental blast and q. leech. Basically anything that uses successes for damage (vs. q. bolt which uses a formula for each attack). My assumption is that anyone with Clone will have at least mega-int 3 (in order to have node 5 so you can expend enough quantum to make clone worth it, and taint resistance) so... with mental blast with one dot merged, for two clones you are rolling 18 dice with +2 difficulty (+1 for each clone), or essentially 16 (4 of which are mega) dice (using 2 mega to get rid of the difficulty). Very difficult to beat with just willpower, and still pretty good against people with mental defenses.

[Alex Green]

I've looked at this for a home campaign.  You're right on the Q Bolt example, but it does work well with mental blast and q. leech.  Basically anything that uses successes for damage (vs. q. bolt which uses a formula for each attack).  My assumption is that anyone with Clone will have at least mega-int 3 (in order to have node 5 so you can expend enough quantum to make clone worth it, and taint resistance) so... with mental blast with one dot merged, for two clones you are rolling 18 dice with +2 difficulty (+1 for each clone), or essentially 16 (4 of which are mega) dice (using 2 mega to get rid of the difficulty).  Very difficult to beat with just willpower, and still pretty good against people with mental defenses.

It would suck with q-leech. Leech absorbs [Q]+[Level] points of q. If you did a merged Leech, then you would be rolling a lot more dice to try to affect someone, but you would still be absorbing only [Q]+[Level].

Mind-Blast would do 12d+4Md. This averages to 8.4 succ.

If your target has a willpower of 5 (average 2 succ), he takes 6.4 levels of damage.

If he also has 1 dot in Psi-Shield, he gets another +2 succ, and 2 soak, and he takes 2.4 health.

If he has 2 dots in Psi-Shield, he takes nothing (or -1.6)

Every extra clone costs 3q, and adds +6d+2Md in succ (average 4.2).

So one more clone (total of 3 and 9q) against Mr 2 Psi-Shield would do 2.6.

Better hope he doesn't have regen.

[Alex Green]

I disagree with the requirement on the Firearms and/or Heavy Weapons.

Both of which primarily deal with how to use such weapons, which is radically different from making them.

I thought Firearms also covered the maintenance and repair of the same?

[ezekiel]

True, without spending willpower, it's not permanant, but my God. "I'm going to turn this metal bench into a laser rifle; I've got enough successes, see?" I suck at math and my players were scientists and programers, so it's possible they were just running circles around me logically.

Yeah, the laser would only do MC+Quantum damage and the titanium would only have MC+Quantum soak. So A Nova with 5 Matter Creation + 5 Quantum can only create stuff that cause or soak 10 die !!

I think this is a little low when you compare it with other powers. I also don't think you should need to know how to make what you're creating.. If the character is falling out of an airplance with MC he should be able to make a parachute, no problem. He doesn't need to know how to sew, make buckles, etc.

There's a fire? Make a fire extinguisher!

Door's locked? Make the key!

MC characters shouldn't all have to be mega-intelligent. Give dorks who wished they had it all a chance!

[Bahamut810]

Just remember that its at the storytellers option they have to know...and only for complicated devices.

Is a laser complicated? Oh heck ya! there are many many circut boards on one of thoes...and who knows what else.

Is a Handgun complicated? No...a revolver has 3 moving parts.

A fire extinguisher? No...one moving part and a chemical reaction to start it

[archer]

Hate to correct you, bud, but a revolver has more than 3 moving parts.

Let's not get into a semiautomatic.

Knives and sticks are easy though. ::tongue

[brilyn]

I thought Firearms also covered the maintenance and repair of the same?

Sure, more than likely.

So what?

Brilyn (aka: me) has zero dots in Firearms. Maybe 1 with a generous ST due to all the guns on TV I've seen.

I'd have 2-3 dots in Engineering.

I can't design a colt .45, but I can design a rail-gun. Or a moderately powered Laser (high powered with a little bit of research). Dirty bomb, not an issue. Efficient atomic bomb: not likely (that would require *work*.... ::wink).

Now, while I can't design a Colt .45, I can design a tube that'll allow a .45 shell to travel along, create rifling, design a handle, couple of chambers that rotate to place the next shell in place as the first is fired, and so on and so forth.

If knowing what a gun looks like (in the vaguest of terms) requires a dot in Firearms, then fair enough. I agree that to design a gun requires a dot in Firearms. As long as designing a knife requires a dot in Melee.....

[Alex Green]

Lasers would be Heavy Weapons.

And I can see Matter Creation bypassing all of that (just like the money it creates isn't a forgery but is the real stuff, i.e. it doesn't require an "Art" roll).

I'm less sure that Molec Manipulation could do so.

[brilyn]

IMO you SO can't do *any* of that with Matter Manipulation.

Sure you can reshape the items, or change their state, but you'd need some pretty funky megastats to reshape a steel bowl into a steel laser, then lots of Molecular Manip to change enough of the steel into the appropriate circuit pathways, and then individually change bits of steel into capacitors, and *zzzzzzzz*

Forget it. You'd need a roll per component. Not gonna happen.

[ProfPotts]

... just like the money it creates isn't a forgery but is the real stuff, i.e. it doesn't require an "Art" roll...

'Created' money (as in paper money) will always be a forgery because of the way money works - it's not just about amount, but about what has been issued by the government. Create a $50 bill with the exact same paper, ink, & security details as 'real' money & it's still a forgey because it was never issued.

If you want to create 'wealth', then make gold or something - that has intrinsic value - paper money doesn't.

As for the Art thing - it's the idea from Matter Creation about needing the correct Abilities to make certain stuff. Modern paper money is pretty detailed (with all sorts of holograms, special designs, & other anti-forgery stuff) - details that Joe slob on the street never bothers noticing. A Nova with the correct Mega-Attributes (say Mega-Perception, for example) may be able to look really closely at a real $50 bill, then reproduce it exactly - others will need the artistic skills that have been employed by forgers since money was first created in order to get the details correct.

It's similar with guns & stuff - an brilliant Engineer may be able to build all sorts of things, but if he's unfamiliar with guns, then he's going to have a hard time creating one. It's really a ST call as to which Ability to apply - or whether to leave it as the basic power Dice Pool (for simple stuff). Firearms (as someone pointed out) is by no means just a combat Ability to give you a bigger Dice Pool for killing things - like all the rather loose & far-reaching Abilities in WW games, it covers a broad base of skills - from firing guns, to maintaining them to (at high levels) even designing them. Naturally Engineering would also be needed to build a new design, but a Firearms expert will know what works well with his choosen tools. (Slightly off-topic, but in Adventure! 3 dots in an appropriate Ability are needed as well as Ability Mastery in Engineering to build things related to specific Abilities - i.e. to build a super-science gun you need both the usual 6 dots in Engineering, & at least 3 dots in Firearms.)

For power immunity - I'd say no, you're not immune to the things you create with Matter Creation - the power is in the 'creating' process, not in the 'creation' itself. If you create a baseball bat, & someone else hits you with it, you still take damage.

[brilyn]

(Slightly off-topic, but in Adventure! 3 dots in an appropriate Ability are needed as well as Ability Mastery in Engineering to build things related to specific Abilities - i.e. to build a super-science gun you need both the usual 6 dots in Engineering, & at least 3 dots in Firearms.)

That's a fair point Prof.

I still don't totally agree with the Firearms use..... meh. ::biggrin

How about a speciality for Engineering: Firearm Design?

Bleh. Not that I ultimately care, as I don't see Derek directly creating guns (so long as Brian doesn't drink prior to posting again..... ::blush ). Just nuking the ones the enemies are using.... ::wink

Fundamentally, I totally agree that it's the STs call. I'll argue as hell for my part, but if a ST reaches the point of: "um.... no, here's how it's running" I can leave it alone. No, really, I can.... ::biggrin

[malkboy]

You've got me pegged down ProfPotts.. Maybe I should check my brain to see if someone has used telepathy on me.

Anyway.. If you need more clarification.. since I'm back now.. and on my actual computer.. If you have a question and it hasn't been awnsered.. Point it out to me.

[Asbjørn]

Btw: I'm using a online translator and LEO for my postings in CC.

I thought so... Your english isn't bad, but the mistakes in it are the kind that come from auto translators. Misunderstanding of words, german words that don't translate well and stuff like that. If I were you, I'd write the english myself and spend a little time with a dictionary instead. That way you'll get better much faster than with an online translator.

Don't get me wrong: Your english is good enough, but it could get better.

[Heritage]

In my game, I said that you had to have the appropriate Engineering skills to replicate something as complex as a car or laser, and the MM was an uber-genius type, so that wasn't a problem.

As far as Agg Telpathy, the player had Surreptitious Telepathy, and could therefore walk into anyone's mind whenever he wanted to - the ST wanted to give even unaware people a chance at resisting, so he said in his game Willpower would act like Soak for Telepathy. Then the player game back with Agg Telepathy, since Agg attacks bypass soak. The ST was not amused ::biggrin

Here's another idea I was thinking about involving Shapeshift. Characters like the DC's Metal Men and Plastic Man turn themselves into objects, even complex ones like cars. How would you do this? I was thinking a combination of Shapeshift, Clone and Homonculous to replicate all the parts, possibly Quantum Conversion for energy, and other odd powers for specific things, possibly Bodymorph, too. Engineerring rolls would be required, and possibly Eidetic Memory to have a mental storehouse of schematics. Mayble Flying to make a working plane, or just Pilot so he could fly himself?

I was toying with the idea of a character who could Shapeshift, but only into inanimate objects as a weakness - if the team needed a jet, he'd become one, he could take the place of the bad guys' getaway car, etc. If you throw in Cyberkinesis, he could get real scary.

What say you, chaps?

[malkboy]

Here's another idea I was thinking about involving Shapeshift. Characters like the DC's Metal Men and Plastic Man turn themselves into objects, even complex ones like cars. How would you do this? I was thinking a combination of Shapeshift, Clone and Homonculous to replicate all the parts, possibly Quantum Conversion for energy, and other odd powers for specific things, possibly Bodymorph, too. Engineerring rolls would be required, and possibly Eidetic Memory to have a mental storehouse of schematics. Mayble Flying to make a working plane, or just Pilot so he could fly himself?

He'd have to have a working idea of how to fly.. or else he'd crash.. himself.. at least in the shape of a plane. Plus remember you are only getting so much surface space out of yourself before you stretch yourself too thin... (man that sounds weird). Adding all the powers together and you're going to be out of quantum before your done.

Unless of course.. he's always a plane when he uses his flight power

[ProfPotts]

Technically Shapeshift alters shape, but not substance, whilst Bodymorph or Matter Chameleon alter substance but not shape. However, many powers can have some minor substance or shape altering special effects (such as a guy with Armour or Density Control - Increase turning to stone, even though he doesn't have Bodymorph).

To really turn into machines & stuff I'd say you needed Shapeshift (for the altered shapes) & Bodymorph - machinery (or something - that does sound a little too general for a Bodymorph, doesn't it?), plus any non-physical powers you may like those machines to utilise. Flight can be gained by Shapeshifting (whilst in 'machine' substance) into an aeroplane, but you wouldn't be able to gain Quantum Bolt by turning your arm into a laser gun - you'd need to use an actual power with that special effect.

Perhaps your best bet would be to take Elemental Mastery - machine abilities, so you can use the various Techniques, & improvised Techniques when needed, to simulate most stuff that machines can do. On top of the Shapeshift & Bodymorph, naturally.

[Archer21]

To be fair, most of you are right. Creating a gun, in this case a pistol, really isn't that hard. The mechanics of how a centerfire-based pistol are pretty simple. , Pull the trigger, hammer drops firing pin against primer, explosion occurs, bullet is pushed forward through barrel. To make this more specific, let's say this particular pistol is a revolver. So, no slide or feed ramp to deal with, just a set of chambers that spin.

Pretty simple, right? Wrong. Something that seems so simple rarely is.

For one thing, any device that requires mechanisms to move typically needs lubrication. This is more vital to a semiautomatic than a revolver, but it's still necessary. So that's another step.

Then you've got to worry whether you made the chamber walls too thin(possible explosion), whether the firing pin is aligned properly, whether the barrel is rifled correctly(otherwise you'll just miss, or worse, a detonation in the barrel).

And let's not forget that if you just made a gun, you need bullets. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

[Heritage]

Plus remember you are only getting so much surface space out of yourself before you stretch yourself too thin...

That's why I included Clone, to make a bunch of Shapeshifters who combine into a bigger whole. Yeah, it's a twink ::wink

Unless of course.. he's always a plane when he uses his flight power

As a weakness, that might work: 'must be plane'. ::biggrin

Technically Shapeshift alters shape, but not substance, whilst Bodymorph or Matter Chameleon alter substance but not shape. However, many powers can have some minor substance or shape altering special effects (such as a guy with Armour or Density Control - Increase turning to stone, even though he doesn't have Bodymorph).

If I'm not mistaken, in Shapeshift it says you can turn into objects, but it's very vague on this point - there's no mention of complexity, size, etc. One assumes when Plastic Man turns into a chair, he still feels like Plastic Man, but maybe harder (shiver!). Of course, a lot of this comes down to artistic license in the comics, and Plastic Man's powers have been wildly inconsistant over the years.

but you wouldn't be able to gain Quantum Bolt by turning your arm into a laser gun - you'd need to use an actual power with that special effect.

I totally agree. This is not a character I was planning to play, but a very powerful NPC I was thinking of who was kinda nuts and muy, muy tainted - as a PC, it would cost way too much to be worthwhile. As a dramatic device that pulls the players' bacon out of the fire at the last minute once or twice, it's a maybe.

[Alex Green]

...the player had Surreptitious Telepathy, and could therefore walk into anyone's mind whenever he wanted to - the ST wanted to give even unaware people a chance at resisting, so he said in his game Willpower would act like Soak for Telepathy...

Even Surreptitious Telepathy can be resisted with Willpower, can't it?

The subject might not be aware of it (so he can't spend willpower or raise any defenses that must be raised), but to the best of my understanding Surreptitious doesn't bypass Willpower or any of the other mental defenses.

[Asbjørn]

Bahamut: Did I miss it, or have you forgotten to describe those special eyes of yours?

[Bahamut810]

I advert my eyes from people. You would be suprised how many people just dont look other people in the eyes, especially of the first dosent want to have his eyes looked at.

Thats my excuse and im sticking to it ::tongue