Trinity Universe: Holo Lives

[knave]

btw guys - In addition to excellent 'getting into character' posts it's probably easiest for everyone if you post a short summary of your covers to the reference thread. Just so everyone's is is pretty much the same place - something like:

>>>Agent Cover Identity<<<

Frederick Heidelburg

Primary Cover Identity: Manfred Braun, Aeon Trinity: Neptune Division. Specialist with the Diplomatic Corps. Four years on the job, moved from Triton Logistics and Support into a management position. Divorced from wife, Ottilia. One child, Viktoria 14.

Secondary Cover Identity: Heinrich Muller, German businessman with Clintech/Reinmettel - on a business trip. Recently lost wife Inga. Could be called home at a moment's notice.

>>><<<

Note: If you guys want to change how you're deploying it's not too late.

[knave]

Yeeks - hold up gang. I'm getting ahead of myself. ::sneaky2

[phoenix]

What?

[knave]

Just getting a bit ahead of myself. Prof has Op. Command and has been developing a plan that I'm squishing. ::crazy

[ProfPotts]

How deep undercover are we going? Do we enter the country as our covers or as ourselves? With or without illegal equipment? Will we have a safehouse or secure locations were it's possible to store equipment and discuss matters, or will our only form of communication be through encrypted lines?

Hastings has a handle on all this stuff, but is kinda' a 'need to know' sort of a guy - especially for a mission of this sort. As such I was planning on giving out information when relevant in-character. If that's really just too darned annoying for people, then I'll understand, drop the whole thing & just tell all. ::biggrin

... Prof has Op. Command...

Well, Hastings does - I just like to pretend I know what I'm doing... ::tongue

Cover-wise, so far only Taka & Tiger have any idea of what their roles will be at the summit, & even they haven't been given contact details & the like as of yet - so for most characters, choosing a specific cover would be a bit hard at the moment. As far as Hastings is concerned everyone has been given something to do prior to the actual summit - he'd prefer to get over that first hurdle before worrying them with details about the next one. Like I said, he's a 'need to know' sort of a guy. After all, he needs something to do himself, right? ::wink

Of course, with team members already adding NPCs to their mission groups & not bothering to report or clear it with the guy in charge, I guess he's onto a loser from the very start... Not to mention those damnable clairsentients who refuse to ever tell the rest of us what they've 'seen' - despite direct orders to do so... Ho hum - who'd ever want to be a leader?.. ::rolleyes

[Asbjørn]

Actually, I assumed we'd just wing the part about contacts and stuff, or at least not do it as detailed as the characters would have to do. After all, that is the least interesting part to roleplay, isn't it? ::confused Especially for the leader...

And, since Tiger and Taka's mission can be done better from London than through research in Chicago, I saw no reason to wait. I mean, research resources are equally available in London, and the longer we spend with the unit before the summit, the better we can do our jobs there. Besides, we'll obviously get a briefing on the mundane threats there as well...

Are we going too fast here, Prof? Sorry if we are. Just say the word and we'll slow down.

Personally, I have no problems with Hastings' 'need-to-know'-policy, except for one little thing: Tiger doesn't ask, for two reasons. He shouldn't have to, since he expects a military commanding officer to hand out the information when needed, and Hastings never takes him seriously. Now, that relationship is just roleplaying flavor to the game, in my opinion, but since Tiger actually does know what he's doing it would be good to avoid unnecessary screwups, like: "Oh, sorry. I thought you said 'get to work', not 'make a plan'..."

[knave]

London before the summit could be interesting depending on what you do, but I will warn you now - noone goes to France and finds it uneventful.

[ProfPotts]

Actually, I assumed we'd just wing the part about contacts and stuff, or at least not do it as detailed as the characters would have to do. After all, that is the least interesting part to roleplay, isn't it?  Especially for the leader...

Well, I'd presume that nothing is done in as much detail as the characters do it (after all, who wants to, for example, be forced to describe exactly how your character strips & cleans his guns, each & every time... ::crazy ), but I don't see why it shouldn't be interesting role-play? Especially as Knave seems to have made a considerable effort to detail the contact characters et al.

And, since Tiger and Taka's mission can be done better from London than through research in Chicago, I saw no reason to wait. I mean, research resources are equally available in London, and the longer we spend with the unit before the summit, the better we can do our jobs there. Besides, we'll obviously get a briefing on the mundane threats there as well...

Hastings ordered them to do research & prepare their covers, not to go anywhere. For a start he hasn't had a chance to check out the contacts & various other issues himself, & he also wants to check their covers & performances himself before they go anywhere.

Personally, I have no problems with Hastings' 'need-to-know'-policy, except for one little thing: Tiger doesn't ask, for two reasons. He shouldn't have to, since he expects a military commanding officer to hand out the information when needed, and Hastings never takes him seriously. Now, that relationship is just roleplaying flavor to the game, in my opinion, but since Tiger actually does know what he's doing it would be good to avoid unnecessary screwups, like: "Oh, sorry. I thought you said 'get to work', not 'make a plan'..."

Hastings will hand out information when needed - it's just not needed yet. As for taking Tiger seriously - if he didn't do that, then the guy wouldn't be on the team at all. He's read Tiger's psyche-file [thanks Knave! ::thumbsup ] & made his own observations, & generally thinks that the kid shows promise, but is also too gung-ho for his own (& the group's) good. Considering various slips that took place on the last mission, from the very moment the team took their first steps on the jumpship, he's not willing to allow any such slips to threaten this mission. OOC Hastings actually did quite a bit of damage control behind the scenes on the last mission - trying to minimise the impact of the various breeches in secrecy that occured [Knave knows what I'm talking about , I hope] - this time they need to fool (amongst others) the guys who trained Hastings himself - mistakes will be spotted.

OOC Hasting probably considers Tiger the best of a bad bunch, as far as the team goes. Taka he thinks is more competant & professional, but doesn't trust, & Psions - well, they tend to cause more problems than they solve, in Hastings' experience. Of the lot of them, Tiger could make a good agent - one day; but that's not gonna' happen if he screws things up early on. This is, of course, all the characters' opinion - after all, he is a Cynic. ::sly

[phoenix]

Hastings ordered them to do research & prepare their covers, not to go anywhere. For a start he hasn't had a chance to check out the contacts & various other issues himself, & he also wants to check their covers & performances himself before they go anywhere.

Hang on a minute. If that's the case, why didn't Hastings say anything when Taka said this to Tiger in his presence?

"As you say, then. Tiger, we'll take a day or two to arrange our covers and decide how much of our personae need to be fabricated, then take the next flight to London. Is that okay with you?"

[ProfPotts]

'Cos he thought that a day or two would be plenty of time to follow his orders & report back. He has stuff he's doing himself in those two days anyway - hopefully by the time he's done he'll have a better idea as to how he's gonna' handle the various covers & placements, etc..

[phoenix]

I assumed that Taka would be in touch with Hastings over the course of the next few days (one of those things I didn't find interesting enough to roleplay, but probably should have mentioned). I had presumed the covers that he had when he and Tiger entered the car were the result of a couple of days cooperation with Neptune and Hastings. It just didn't strike me as all that big a deal.

Are there any changes Hastings would have made to the covers, when he saw them? Probably be easier to just implement them now.

[Asbjørn]

Well, I'd presume that nothing is done in as much detail as the characters do it (after all, who wants to, for example, be forced to describe exactly how your character strips & cleans his guns, each & every time... ::crazy )

Exactly.

but I don't see why it shouldn't be interesting role-play? Especially as Knave seems to have made a considerable effort to detail the contact characters et al.

When I say 'wing it' I mean not detailing contactphrases, hideouts, procedures and all that in advance, but playing in a way that includes these elements. If the contactphrases are "Crappy weather." "Yeah, well, it's better than Paris..." or something lame like that we can choose between spending two-three posts first detailing these things before we actually play it out, or we can improvise it. My impression here was that we were aiming for more 'between scenes' stuff.

Hastings ordered them to do research & prepare their covers, not to go anywhere. For a start he hasn't had a chance to check out the contacts & various other issues himself, & he also wants to check their covers & performances himself before they go anywhere.

Ok. A misunderstanding, then. That happens in this medium. Looks like it's us players who need spoonfeeding of instruction, and not our characters... Anyway: I think there are two ways we can solve that: Either we say - like phoenix suggests - that we have had the talks with Hastings and the necessary adjustments have been made, or we change course and are headed for a meeting with operational command instead of the flight. Makes sense to be headed that way in cover, too. Gives a sense of how well it's gonna work...

Hastings will hand out information when needed - it's just not needed yet.

I know he will. Don't worry.

As for taking Tiger seriously - if he didn't do that, then the guy wouldn't be on the team at all. He's read Tiger's psyche-file [thanks Knave! ::thumbsup ]

I have a psyche profile?!?! ::biggrin Can I see it? Partly out of curiosity, and partly to be sure me and Knave agree on how his head works...

Ok, mostly out of curiosity.

& made his own observations, & generally thinks that the kid shows promise, but is also too gung-ho for his own (& the group's) good.

I have no idea what you're talking about... ::sarcasm ::tongue ::wink

- this time they need to fool (amongst others) the guys who trained Hastings himself - mistakes will be spotted.

Which is where my Fleming vs le Carré question comes in, I guess... The problem here - I think - is where to draw the line. Real spywork takes time, effort, dedication, patience and skills we have no way of simulating, partly because we don't have those skills, and partly because we don't know all the necessary details about the game world. We simply can't have a detailed enough game online for that to be plausible. The sense of professionalism has to be in the way we communicate, the way we handle problems and snags, when we walk away and when we don't, and stuff like that. If our characters do something wrong or not by the book, it's best if we players do it intentionally. Accidental screwups - mistakes that our characters do know better than making, but we don't - shouldn't be emphasized, in my opinion.

I realize this is a discussion that borders on basic approaches to roleplaying, but I think it's relevant here. I've had a few of these discussions in my tabletop group...

Here's an example to illustrate what I mean. The situation and characters are fictious and any resemblance to real events are purely coincidental. ::tongue

A team of special agents of a top secret agency is inserted in a military operation against an alien race. Let's call them chromatics. Despite extensive briefing on the enemy's strengths and weaknesses, one of the players describes his character as having brought a laser gun on the mission - a weapon that's near useless against said alien race.

I'm not saying that the character - let's call him Harker - isn't allowed to make a mistake like that, but there are at least three ways of handling the situation. One is telling the player that he's brought a useless weapon and have him edit it. One assumes that during the hours of packing and shipping out - that haven't been played - somebody would have noticed Harker's screwup. And one - in my opinion - shreds the illusion by in character pointing out that a mistake has been made. The last option reduces the believability (is that a word..?) of the game by highlighting and focusing on something that shouldn't - and wouldn't - have happened, instead of smoothing things over. In so doing the team seems less competent than the characters are because of a player's mistake. The discussion - which probably is too big to take here - is of course wether one wants to allow small edits or not. I'm in favor.

OOC Hasting probably considers Tiger the best of a bad bunch, as far as the team goes. Taka he thinks is more competant & professional, but doesn't trust, & Psions - well, they tend to cause more problems than they solve, in Hastings' experience. Of the lot of them, Tiger could make a good agent - one day; but that's not gonna' happen if he screws things up early on. This is, of course, all the characters' opinion - after all, he is a Cynic. ::sly

No kidding? And here I thought he was a caregiver or something... ::wink

As for Tiger, I know he comes across as a cocky sod, but he really isn't. Not entirely, anyway. He's perfectly capable of assuming the underdog position or acknowledge others' superior skills, but he hates being underestimated as a kid by his peers, which leads to showing off... ::rolleyes He has no problem whatsoever with anybody outside the unit underestimating him, however. That's just another asset... Another problem is of course that he's used to a military chain of command, and is having problems adapting to this semi-military outfit. He never disobeys an order - at least I can't think of a time when he has, and I hope nobody else can - but he respects Taka's orders less than Hastings'. He likes Taka better on a personal level, but that's not the issue.

[phoenix]

Here's an example to illustrate what I mean. The situation and characters are fictious and any resemblance to real events are purely coincidental. ::tongue

::laugh ::laugh ::laugh I couldn't agree more, and LOL, by the way. This is our hobby, but it's the characters' job, they probably wouldn't have made several of the mistakes on Chrome Prime that they did.

[knave]

I think the misunderstandings resulted from not so much the level of detail intended, but rather the intent of the order. When Hastings said - you guys are with the Homeguard so go study - he meant exactly that and not work out your covers and get going. I tried to pre-empt and keep the flow going and got the wrong end of the stick too - it happens ::tongue

It's perfectly possible for the guys to have got the wrong idea in character too. "I'm off to London." "No, you're not..". Sorted.

As for the mistake edits. Well I'm not opposed as long as 1) no-one has called you on it and 2) if the thread hasn't progressed more than a few posts - I'll leave a few to your judgement, but if the thread pages then please post something here so we all know you've done it.

The gun debacle wasn't so bad given that it was Harker who (if archer hopefully doesn't mind me saying so) is a 'Daniel Jackson' rather than a 'Jack O'Neill' type of character so it wasn't completely implausible - he may have picked up the wrong gun while his mind was elsewhere, or maybe he actually brought it to test its effectiveness himself. So while it was an OOC mistake, it also wasn't that dire IMO and illustrated nicely how hardassed Hastings could get when people 'jeapardized the mission'.

That said - I'm all for you guys PMing each other when you spot an out of character mistake Please do not do this for IC mistakes, however. ::biggrin IC mistakes are corrected through the stings of sarcasm and the crushing jaws of sorta real life ::tongue

I have a psyche profile?!?!  ::biggrin Can I see it? Partly out of curiosity, and partly to be sure me and Knave agree on how his head works...

::biggrin An example of one of the things we scurry past because it's a game is that everyone who works for the Trinity has fairly regular sessions with a psychologist. That's a staple of intelligence work cliche that most of you will be fine with. Whether or not you get to see your profile depends on if you can convince Hastings to show it to you. Remember, however, that what you see your character's personality to be like is not really relevant to a Psych profile - which is compiled by someone else forming opinions about you from the things you say and don't say in session and from your current and past mission reports.

[Asbjørn]

It's perfectly possible for the guys to have got the wrong idea in character too.  "I'm off to London."  "No, you're not..".  Sorted.

The problem is when that happens - or would have happened - between posts. Easy to edit afterwards, yes, but hardly necessary...

Hmm. I'd better start asking incredibly detailed questions that will drive everybody up the walls and slow down the game immensely. ::sly

The gun debacle wasn't so bad given that it was Harker who (if archer hopefully doesn't mind me saying so) is  a 'Daniel Jackson' rather than a 'Jack O'Neill' type of character so it wasn't completely implausible - he may have picked up the wrong gun while his mind was elsewhere, or maybe he actually brought it to test its effectiveness himself.  So while it was an OOC mistake, it also wasn't that dire IMO and illustrated nicely how hardassed Hastings could get when people 'jeapardized the mission'.

Well, that laser is hardly 'pocket-issue', so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one or more of us would have noticed and given him a hint or two... What saved that situation was archer's handling of it after Hasting's reaction. It's not just Harker who ends up looking like an idiot, it's all of us...

But it's not a big deal, and that's not the point. It's just an illustrating example.

[knave]

It's just a game. Misunderstandings will happen. We all live and learn.

Let's get on with having the fun. ::tongue

[knave]

WB Umoja and brilyn!

[knave]

btw - do I owe anyone else posts on anything in particular? Is there any more information that you'd like to research or request?

[ProfPotts]

Just to let everyone know, I've handed Hastings over to Knave to run as an NPC - to be honest I think he'll work a lot better that way (& no more delays in the game ::wink ).

[phoenix]

By the way, in several Trinity settings the locals have problems with credit chips. I assume that the London arcology is not one of them, right?

[knave]

Right.

Actually Britain's a bit like that now. Unlike most? other countries several British banks actually make currency. In England it's only the Bank fo England, but several Scottish banks also print money. Scottish notes are technically legal tender anywhere in Britain, but they're generally only accepted in Scotland and in London.

[phoenix]

"Better if nobody knows we were in Camden..."

Why?

[Asbjørn]

Cause we have a safehouse there, and if anybody ends up suspecting us of anything they'll check up on our movements and are bound to wonder what two offduty guards were doing in that neighbourhood. Maybe they'll even have a hunch we might have gone there again if the poop hits the fan and we go missing. Which reduces the usefulness of said safehouse.

[phoenix]

Where are our characters meant to live during the summit, then?

[knave]

On site makes the most sense. The Safe Houses are Trinity Safe Houses. Sorry... should have mentioned that.

- busy as a busy busy beaver right now... will return to scheduled programming asap. ::crazy

[Asbjørn]

Not to be a pain in the ass or anything, but... Any idea when you'll be picking up again, Knave? You will pick it up again, right...? Right...?

[knave]

Guys, I'm really sorry, I've tried to make time, but there's quite a lot happening in my life at the moment and I'm finding it really really hard to keep the momentum going. If someone wants to take over, please do, otherwise I'm afraid the game is pretty much dead in the water. ::confused

[ezekiel]

I'm already getting ulcers and newfound respect for Prof and Heritage now that I've started my own game... ::wacko I'm not taking another one on right now for sure...I still can't believe how long I take for one measly little gigantic post! ::wink

Talvin will sorely be missed...

[Asbjørn]

It's hardly a secret around here that I know that feeling... ::confused No hard feelings, Knave, but I for one am not giving up hope of you picking it up again some time...

[phoenix]

I miss this game.. ::cry

[knave]

I miss this game.. ::cry

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I miss having the time to run this game ::sad

[phoenix]

Touché..

[knave]

Touché..

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really wish it wasn't