Star Wars

[André]

Anyone playing Star Wars rpg??

[Joseph]

I've not played the d20 version, but I have the older d6 and a few supplements. I highly enjoyed both playing and GMing StarWars.

The only problem I saw was that word preads quickly among gamers when there's a StarWars game on. I GMed one for about four months before I got overwhelmed. We had 17 players, up from the original six.  :notify

Anything specific you're looking for about it?

-Joseph

[Aninemity]

17 players? that sounds just crazy! I couldn't imagine...

[Joseph]

It was almost a LARP. The group half acted out a lot of scenes anyway (lots of  :beer  probably helped), and I had two assistant GMs. It was fun while it lasted, though. Especially the poor Jedi who was trying to correct all of the problems the rest of the group made. (Mostly by the Gambler and semi-inept Bounty Hunter.)

Huh. I wonder if I can distract my group a bit with this...

-Joseph

[Defender]

I bought the recent D20 version produced by Warlocks of the Corrupt and I have to say it wasn't half bad. I liked how they set up three eras of play; The Rise of the Empire, the Era of Rebellion and the New Jedi Order. But the fact that they've kept putting off and putting off releasing their Jedi sourcebook is a constant irritation to me. I mean, I've got the Dark Side sourcebook but I want the Jedi Order goodies too. *grumble*  :angry

-Defender.

[Aninemity]

WotC are really bad at the delayed releases it seems.

I haven't played it yet, but if all goes according to plan, there might be a game starting nearby relatively soon.

[painheart]

I'm currently running a D20 star wars.  I'm not going to glow about the system because you could almost let your players use their D&D books aleast with their first printing.  With Eposode two the cam out with a new revises edition that looka ten times cooler with a bunch of new stuff. wich pisses me off.  because you can tell that they just did a half assed version of the book when they came out with frist edition.

[Defender]

Revised? Already? Yeesh, and I shelled out a lot of Canadian dollars for that first edition too. . .*grumble*  ::sneaky2

-Defender.

[CHILL]

I just picked up the revised edition (Senior Mal is going to run it for us)....  and had a look through it.

Its nice, well put together.....  erm, its d20.

Dunno about ho it compares to the last one, as I never had a copy of that book.

I suppose I can give a bit of a write up of what I think of the game as a newcommer to SW RPG, and someone returning to DnD rules after, erm....  (counts on fingers).... about 4-5 years.

More on this later methinks....

[Nadrakas]

Hmmm....

I have the new d20 version...had the d6 one too {Still got all the books..}.  Anyway...it's a good, solid d20 system.

One of the things that players may not like is that Force Feats/Skills drain your Vitality -- which is similar to Hit Points...only it returns a little faster.  Now, Vitality is supposed to represent Fatigue...but the idea of "draining" points off the same “Hit Points” the character takes damage from may be a little disappointing to players who see the Force as being “limitless”.   One option is to make another pool of points - call it "Force Pool" - so that the Feats/Skills draw from it.  Yet even this seems a little…limiting.  Perhaps it would be better to not “charge” anything for the use of a Force Feat/Skill.

On another note….Armour still gives an Armor Class rating, instead of having a "Stopping Power".  {Shrug}  Never made sense to me.

Now…here are my personal ratings for the Star Wars main book.  Note that I am a little “critical” when it comes to rating Game Books.  Just a personal habit.

APPEARANCE:  3 – Average look.  Full Color, with a few photos and drawings -- though not enough.  Pictures and drawings give a "feel" for a Game World...and there should be more of them in this book.  A few of the "Full-Page" photos were grainy, but they are primarily from the older films.

CHARACTER CREATION: 2 -- Offers two methods.  The first method is a "Preplanned" Template, detailed down to the equipment.  The second is the "Random" method, wherein you roll 4d6 and take the highest three for each Ability.  It can take a little while - average one hour -- to create a character.  Either one can be a disappointment to players who are used to "Creating" their characters from "scratch", and the characters are going to be starting at the "bottom" -- not too many "Over-the-Top" actions going to be performed at 1st Level and the skills are going to be low.

LAYOUT: 4 -- Solid and relatively easy to find things.  The "corner" tabs help in this, and the Index is pretty thorough.  Still...some items are a little difficult to locate, and the charts are tedious.  Not bad for a 10 pitch, 314 page book.

PRICE: 2 -- A little high for most gamers at $34.95 American.  Probably not for the casual Star Wars fan.

RULES:  2 -- Too many of them.  I personally don't like a game book of a "non-generic game" like Star Wars to be more than 30% or 40% rules...and the main book is well over 75% {or more} rules.  As I said...it is a d20 game, which tend to be "Rules Heavy".  {An Example of a "Generic Game" is the GURPS main book, which is mostly rules.  But almost all of the "GURPS World Books" are chock full of info on the World.}

WORLD: 2 -- Throughout the book you will find bits of information about the "Star Wars" Galaxy -- part of that "difficult to find items" I mentioned.  There is an "Eras of Play" section...but it only takes up 19 pages out of 314.  Players & Gamemaster will have to rely on non-game books for much of their information.  Then again...there is a "handy" conversion section in the back, to go from the d6 to the d20 versions.  Hmmm….can you say “instant” Sourcebooks?

OVERALL RATING:  2.5 -- An OK game, but it could be better.  The system is solid, and those who know other d20 Systems should have little trouble learning the few new rules.  Those who prefer "free-form" systems, such as White Wolf's Storyteller System, will probably be disappointed.

Now…Don't get me wrong...I don't hate the d20 Star Wars game.  It's just that it didn't meet my standards.  I've been playing for over 30 years now, so when I look at a gaming book I tend to weigh it with a critical eye.  Rarely do I give a gaming book a high rating...mainly because most are rushed or put together by people who have little experience doing so.  In the case of the Star Wars game I would have to say there was too much emphasis on the “Nuts-&-Bolts” over “Story Elements” – but that’s my opinion.

Nadrakas..."The Story MUST go on."

[Nadrakas]

Oh...

A few more things...

::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal  ::downmal

Nadrakas..."Down with MAL!!!"

::downmal

[Defender]

As long as they don't screw up the Jedi sourcebook I'll be happy. Dark Side and Jedi, that's all I want. . .just don't let them suck.  ???

-Defender.

[Nadrakas]

As long as they don't screw up the Jedi sourcebook I'll be happy. Dark Side and Jedi, that's all I want. . .just don't let them suck.  <!--emo&???

-Defender.

Defender,

I can give you my personal ratings on the "Dark Side Sourcebook" -- if you want.  A friend of mine bought it, and then promply gave it to me.  I personally don't intend to buy the "Jedi Sourcebook"...so I apologize about not being able to give you my opinion.  Hmmm...then again....Opinions are like A##h###s -- everyone's got one.  

Also...for those who know that the RPG industry began in 1975 and are wondering about how I can have "over 30 years experience"...

I began in early 1971 - when I was 6 {Growing up on military bases exposes you to a lot of "wierd" things...} - with Historical Wargames: American Civil War, American Revolutionary War, European Wars.  Didn't really understand them then, but I won once in two years.  In 1974 a little game called "Chain Mail" came out, complete with Wizards & Magic...and I was hooked.  Then a little of a year later I discovered "Dungeons & Dragons" {Hmmm...still have that beat up white box somewhere...}.  After that I primarily played RPG's...and have been playing ever since.  Yet...even though I've "been playing a looooong time" -- well, that doesn't make me the "be-all-to-end-all".  It just makes me old and crotchety....and sometimes a little "opinionated".  I try - and I think succeed - to give every game I come across the benefit of the doubt.  Yet I stick by my overall Rating of 2.5 for the d20 Star Wars game.

Well....I will step off my "Soap Box" now.  The next speaker may take the floor.

Nadrakas..."Long Live the Fighters"  - Oh...sorry....wrong movie.  Hmmm....

Cloaked Figure: "Yes....feel your anger....strike your Father Mal down and take his place at my side!"

C. Pax: "NEVER!!!  I will never join you!!"

M. Mercer: "Oh...but you already have my little Nova.  You already have."  {Pulling back the hood of his cloak...revealing Maxwel Mercer...}

C. Pax: "No...no it..it can't be.  NO!!!!!"

M. Mercer: {Evil Laughter}

::downmal

[Defender]

Ah well. . .I still have the unbelievably cool Tales of the Jedi supplement from West End Games. *clutches tight* It's soooo cool.  ::bigsmile

-Defender.

Kickin' the Star Wars Old School baby. ::sly

[André]

I agree that it's very expensive. And the rules seems too fall out off the book some times. Very annoying with all the rules. ::smokin  ::downmal

[Joseph]

Kickin' the Star Wars Old School baby.

That's the only way I'll play it. We gotta stick together, Defender.

-Joseph

[Defender]

Amen Joseph. Amen.

 ::thumbs-up

-Defender.

[André]

Stick together? Like glue then?

[Defender]

Glue. . .not so much. Adhesive strips maybe.

-Defender.

[CHILL]

Well, after a long time running Trinity I get to create a Star Wars character tonight for Senior Mal's game, as he takes over running games for......um.... we'll see how long.

I've only skimmed through the rules and I'm not overly familiar yet with the new D20 system, but I'll post further random drivvel on here with my thoughts about the system at another time...

...for now I'm using pretty much all of my willpower to resist succumbing to the dark side  

(yeah, yeah I know.... 'give in' I hear y'all say  )

[operations]

I got a used copy of the Star Wars d20 game (non-revised) for 15$. From what I hear on the WoTC Star Wars boards, I got a better deal than those that bought the Revised.

There is not enough changes that you can't make due with a first CB, unless you insist on being a Jedi. Then I'd still go with the original just so the other players didn't feel useless.

As for the d20 HP thing, non-esistant in Star Wars. You have two types of damage, vitality points and wound points. Vitality is based on class, wounds on Constitution. Vitality is non-serious damage (like SDC in Palladium) and Wounds is serious stuff. Rather than have Critical multipliers like in d20 D&D, instead a Crit in Star Wars goes directly to wound points. (Crits remain dangerous at any level with this system, which makes me happy. No endless battles because the bad guys have 1000+ HP). Also, non-important NPCs don't have Vitality points (kinda like Extras in Trinity only have 4 HLs), so the "thugs" go down quick so you can get on with the story or get to the main battle. I gotta admit, it's not d6, but I like it. Each has it's advantages.

[operations]

UPDATE!

You all know how I rarely take the opinions of others seriously, so when I found the Revised d20 Star Wars RPG on Amazon for 30% off cover price, I figured why not. I even got it a full 7 days earlier than originally estimated by UPS Ground.

As I have both the OCR and the RCR, I'll give you information about changes in important categories.

Cover- The new one is actually really good, with images of everybodies favorite Jedi, Scoundrels, and a great profile of Jango Fett. The old cover was same quality, but had the nice addition of being an old vs new kind of thing, which I personally like. As far as covers go, either one is good.

Character generation- Well, it's d20, so we all know how it goes. Unlike DnD, you don't have to get book II for the point allocation attribute generation, but I rolled my attributes for my two test characters.

I generated the same characters in both systems. The revised is better, if for no other reason than the prime 3 force feats can be selected in a customized order. (Made more sense for my Force Adept concept, a "Jedi Shao Lin" so to speak, to start with Control rather than Alter.) The Soldier was virtually unchanged, except for a higher defense (the SW version of AC, which represents the "Oh ####, dodge" reflex. Armor I'll discuss below under "stuff"), and with more starting credits, he could actually aford a blaster rifle and armor.

The addition of the Tech Specialist class is very welcome, and opens up 'Mastercraft' items (discussed below). They also added about 4 more alien species, including (at last) Bothans.

Rules- It's d20, so it's easy to learn, difficult to master. Ol Nadrakas seems to think it's rules heavy, but as someone else who started with the non-advanced D&D, I think d20 is far more streamlined. Like all systems, you can use what you really need, and ignore the rest. As it is, I think that d20 is still easier to learn/play than even ST 2.0.

The biggest addition to combat rules is a complete re-work of the Starship combat rules, which now much more closely resembles the WEG d6 version. For personal combat, the addition of 'attacks of opportunity' give Jedi and lovers of Vibroweapons another reason to go through the hassle of closing to melee range.

They also fixed and cleared up skills and feats (martial arts now starts at 1d4 damage instead of 1d6) and added new ones.

Stuff- For many gamers, it's all about the stuff. For some, a specific item of gear helps to complete a concept, or complement skills. I have to say I'm impressed with the equipment section of this book. It gives a comprehensive enough list that you'll quickly spend you starting credits, but not so much stuff that the GM can't suprise you with new stuff from time to time.

Unlike D&D, armor does not add to defense/ac in the new Revised version. Instead, armor has a DR rating, which is damage reduction. In short, DR is subtracted from damage dealt to you wound points, but not vitality. Vitality is supposed to represent the heroic 'dodges and near hits' that our Star Wars heroes regualary encounter. Heavier armor has higher DR, but also has a higher penalty to Dex and some skills.  

With the tech specialist came the mastercraft items, aka the "+X __". The difference is, you can buy +1 items at creation, at double cost (my Force Adept has a +1 Mastercraft Collapseable Spear). Tech Specialist characters have to wait till 4th level to make their own, which keeps the first game from being a flurry of rolls to see how much of the parties crap could have been modified in the 'downtime' before play started.

Unlike the old WEG d6 version, you can't afford to own a ship out of the starting gate. (As it is, even the Noble can barely afford a used Speeder) I myself like this because it means character will be looking to earn one, and a bigger party will require more work becuase they'll need a bigger one. It gives something to work towards other than levels to start with.

GM information- GMs get a good starting batch of information to run games, including a more exaustive list of aliens and bad guy templates. The universal map is in the Starships section, but is a up to date and cleaner map than the one in the old core book. My largest complaint is the lack of a picture of the Yuuzon Vong, the 'enemy of the week' for the New Jedi Order era.

Droids- They get their own chapter, and I review it seperately as well because this section probably had the most changes next to Starship combat. New droids from EP II, rules to play droids, and rules for Memory Wipes. Only problem I have is they left out Pit Droids, which was about the only droid someone could afford to start with.

Overall- I'm pleasantly suprised by the new RCR Star Wars, and am hoping to find someone to run my two new characters through a game. Which leads me to...

The Characters I made for the RCR Star Wars

I'll not bore you with full stats, just the basics/background.

Sossk and Ein Siran are an odd pair of Mercenaries. Mostly involved in escort and bodyguard work, Sossk is a Trandoshan Soldier and Ein Siran is a.. well... Jedi Monk?

Sossk found Ein on a fringe world fighting in an arena. Sossk was watching the show, impressed by this human's abilities to defend himslef with his bare hands. Sossk being a smart warrior, decided he could not miss the opportunity when he saw the human warrior heal himself in the middle of battle. He jumped over the rail and entered the fray, helping the human to blast his way out.

After escaping, Sossk and Ein talked, and Ein told Sossk of his origins. He came form a world that had never heard of space travel, and was barely beginning to use gunpowder based weapons. Ein was a member of a Monastary of warriors that used "the lifeforce" to enhance their bodies and minds. His world was attacked by these outlander demons, and Ein was captured defending his teacher.

Sossk and Ein now travel the galaxy looking for clues as where Ein's home could be found, and Ein helps Sossk in his job duties. Ein has adapted well to the higher tech of the galaxy, though he has yet to use his newly aquired hold out blaster. He prefers his spear, even if he decided to buy a collapsable steel one. Sossk still uses his favored vibrodaggers and blaster rifle to good effect, confidant that his new backup will keep him safe...

[Defender]

Not much to add to your comments Operations, but I just snagged a copy of the SW sourcebook I was looking forward to the most: Power of the Jedi!    

*bounces around happily*

I'll have a review later, but from what I've read so far, I've got one word for ya: sweeeeeet.  

-Defender.

[operations]

I had considered getting PotJ, but I figure that untill I both a) find a group to join and Catch up the bills I have from moving to new house, I need to watch my spending.

Let me hear details...

::ninja

and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot...

Still the funniest thing I've heard in the news ever was after that Chinese pilot crashed into our spy plane, hearing his name was Wong Wei. What a bad name for a pilot...

"What way am I going.. oh ####... Wong Wei!!!! *crash*"

[Senior Mal]

::priest Greetings monkeys

A little hint for all those running a Star Wars.

If you have relatively daring (Stupid) players and aren't really interested whether the game continues or not, put Darth Maul in as a background character. As soon as they spot him the little scamps will run after him and attempt to do the 'right thing' (i.e. beat him within an inch of his life)

10 minutes of dice rolling later, everyones dead except for Darth Maul (obviously) the semi-inept (aren't they always) scoundrel and the force adept (Who didn't see the fight as their problem but are more than happy now that its over to collect all the lightsabres lying around to sell at a later date)

God Bless Darth Maul

Mal

[Defender]

Yipes. That's just evil. Usually I wait until my players have _really_ gone and done it before I sick Darth Maul on them. At least during the Rise of the Empire period. If it's the Rebellion Era, I usually have one of them cross a Hutt. . .

" So you hear that someone named Fett has taken up the bounty on you. . . " *wicked grin*

 ::devil

-Defender.

[operations]

I was also looking at the Rebellion Era Sourcebook in the store (the OT being my favorite movies). I want it, if for nothing else all the data on the bounty hunters.

IG-88.. he's a Bad Mo-fo...

[knave]

btw... just on the subject of SW rpgs.  I've been discussig it with some friends and we've come to the conclusion that it's not a very good representation of the movies - jedi power wise.  I mean - I've only played the d6 version - but in that doing something like deflecting a laser blast back at an attacker is a hard to very hard thing to do.

Take a look at the phantom menace.  There the Jedi APPRENTICE defends his master from numerous attack droids firing lasers simultaneously - most of the time not even bothering to look at what he is doing.  They only run when they realise that they can't blasters back at the destroyer droids.  Hmmmm...

Anyway - we solved the problem by using Hero Wars - a system that is probably too freeform (if such a thing exists) but lends itself well to playing very powerful, very non-linear type characters and also has a handy force point like mechanic.

-Knave

[Dormammu]

Down with d20! Down! Die d20! Die! ::angry

I´ve been playing Star wars d6, and I like it that way. The game is pretty good once you get used to it. But playing even a single evening of Star wars transformed me in an Arch-enemy of the d20 System.

Else everything is fine. But has someone else noticed that d20 sys. actually means hack&slay perfection?

[Dormammu]

BTW has anyone an idea on how to get hands on a d6 Jedi expansion book, where all those jedi powers can be found?

[T-dev]

Well for all those who care, my conversion of Star Wars to Adventure continues but is hard work I am doing all by my lonesome & I have finals.

Speaking of that how do I get one of those niffty forums & a team of slaves, I mean co-workers ::devilangel , for my pet project?

Anyway, I really will need help with how to do the legalese & have someone put on pdf cause I dunno how to do that kinda stuff.

[harlequin]

::cool eon is here for you... just get a hold of me one way or another and i can get you started on that path... ::cool