Adventure! RPG - Errata for Adventure!

[Delbert Jackson]

Has the complete text for Electrical Conjuration been published anywhere?

Refer to the top of page 167.

???

[CHILL]

Hiya GT

I don't think so (hang on, just off to check)

[CHILL]

Right - back.

I can't see it on the WW website.

It might be worth bouncing an email to Bruce Baugh - as he was involved in the concept and design along with Andrew Bates - although I think Bates wrote the rules section, I'm sure Bruce can find out.

[notsoangrydave]

one could also bounce an e-mail to bates. it's listed at his website devilbear.net ::devilangel  ::robotmonkey

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Has there been any update yet?

[CHILL]

Not as far as I'm aware.

[Bahamut810]

Did they ever make a list of merits and flaws for A! ?

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Nope, that's player's guide material snd since there was never any plans for a players guide... Just use TPG or APG for most, even alot of mage, vampire, and werewolf merits and flaws work fine with obvious exceptions.

[madcat82]

Cant we make a list of merits and flaws?? Shouldnt be too hard if all pegged in....

[Bahamut810]

I wouldent mind helping that one out. If we use flaws from different games (like, Ican see immortal from Sorc in there) are we allowed to write the system for it in there, or do we just have to refer to the text it came from?

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Since Merits and Flaws are a big selling point for white wolf's players guides, I think the all we can do is write up the names with where they come from. At best write the costs but with no explaination as to what they do, though many are self-explainatory *shrugs*.

[Bahamut810]

of course we can still make our own up too ::biggrin

[madcat82]

most of the physicals work (some/most from vampire works too, althought we will have to modify them)...

I have a little trouble with the socials, although we could add upperclass or something like that (as well as lowerclass).

[Bahamut810]

I dunno...you dont wanna go overboard. MAbey taking heavily from the more "mortal" games...Sorceror, Hunter, and im sure there is another one or two we can take from. Does anyone know of another pulp game that has that type of system?

[Gideon]

Just a thought, but you might want to look at the Indiana Jones Games system. It has quite a few Merits and Flaws, and some Options that would fit into the Adventure! setting quite well, though ::rolleyes a few need tweeking and conversion to work with the system. ::biggrin

Oh and GURPS. Their Pulp Fiction Expansion specificly would be a good source.

[Arcanum_V]

1. I like Adventure!'s lack of Merits and Flaws. A lot of the Merits published for other WoD games are very close to Knacks in their power, and I'd prefer to keep that gulf just the way it is. Whereas the powers for other WoD games are usually powers above and beyond human abilities, Adventure!'s Knacks are usually just human abilities at higher levels and are therefore already effectively high-cost Merits. Adapting other WoD Merits into new Knacks could be cool.

2. GURPS Cliffhangers has the following genre-appropriate Advantages and Disadvantages:

Advantages

Ally Group

Legal Enforcement Powers

Patron

Status and Reputation

Unusual Background

Independent Income

Disadvantages

Addiction

Alcoholism

Enemy

Poverty

Sense of Duty

Social Stigma

Malaria

Note that several of these are already integral to Adventure! in Backgrounds like Allies, Backing, Reputation, or Resources.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

MAbey taking heavily from the more \"mortal\" games...Sorceror, Hunter, and im sure there is another one or two we can take from.

After reading some of the ones in Hunter *spits* I think even the weirder and completely inapropriate vampire merits and flaws fit better... As far as Hunter goes, I weep for the trees that had to die for it to exist in book form yuk!

[madcat82]

I was not thinking of true Vampire merits/flaws, but rather m/fs that could be used by humans (such as, but not limited to, lame, short, blind, natural leader).

Although, on second thought, I have to agree with Arcanum, at least on the merits bit. I still think that it would be appropriate to pick out some flaws, I mean, If you have no arms you should have something for it... ::bigsmile

Real life may not be fair, but RPGs can...

[Ayre el KaBeer]

The physical, mental, and social flaws all work fine, but all power one's would obviously have to be scrapped or seriously alterred (I say scrapped). As for Merits, most of the ones below 4 points are ok too, the 5-7 pointers are mostly inapropriate or too good to be anything less than a knack.

[Bahamut810]

I would say it would depend... Many of them are like that (especially luck type ones...thats why we have death defiance ::biggrin )

[madcat82]

Tell you what, I will put together a list of what I think works, post it and then people can scrap it... That is if noone else feels that they could do it or have a better ide.

[Bahamut810]

Sounds good. I was going to do that myself this weekend...but I never got around to it.

[Scorpion]

Flaws?

Flaws!!????

Why would our heroes need to get points for their flaws?

This is two-fisted pulp adventure

Not angst-ridden "Daddy-wouldn't buy-me-a-pony-when-I-was-three" roleplay.

If your character only has one arm, then as a pulp character, they'll have some way of overcoming it anyway - how about a prosthetic Gadget - after all, in a system that allows for such things, someone will invent one in-game, if your character doesn't start with one.

The game doesn't need Flaws at all - if you want to play a character that's an alcoholic - then play them like that - and if you feel you should get some benefit from it - remember, the storyteller is supposed to reward good roleplay with experience points.

Besides, you already have a Virtue and a Vice - what more do you want?

[ProfPotts]

Hear, hear!!! I heartily agree - keep our Adventure! Flaw free! ::thumbsup

[Aninemity]

every hero has their weakness. in the end they may be above and beyond the average human, but they are still human.

merits and flaws are used regardless of whether the players get points for them or not, as you said Scorpion. I like the idea of having some written out if for no other reason it gives people new to the game an idea base to work off of. things like that helped me immensely when i first started.

[Scorpion]

Oh, I'm not saying that writing out 'flaws' is a bad thing, far from it, as part of a characters background they help develop personality.

But with the Virtue/Vice system, your characters "Biggest" personality 'flaw' is already taken care of.

As far as physical flaws are concerned with Super-Science in play they're not likely to make too much difference.

Paraplegic? - well - how about a self propelled wheelchair - a la Loveless from Wild Wild West. - Granted - not a perfect solution - but since the only character that's likely to want that kind of flaw would be a Scientist, who became inspired because he was driven to cure his own ill, or a retired professor of Archaeology who is renowned for his research, rather than his field expertise or so on.

But the Pulp genre is more about people overcoming their problems, rather than harping upon them, which is why I feel that 'points for flaws' doesn't have a place within A!

If you want your character to have a limp, then they have a limp, but it won't affect them beyond 'colour' for the character - their move rate would stay the same, and any athletics rolls would not suffer a penalty, because they've become that good in spite of their 'flaw'. Granted, some things, such as being illiterate are somewhat more of a flaw - but then again this particular example was not overly uncommon in certain classes or parts of the world in the 1920's - and because being illiterate is part of the characters background, the type of hero they are should reflect this.

No illiterate professors of ancient literature then. though a colour blind one wouldn't have many troubles. Likewise an ace barnstormer might not need to be able to read - after all, as long as he's aware that when the needle points at "That" symbol he's low on fuel he's fine. Unless of course he plans to go on a long-haul exploration flight without a navigator.

The one final problem with flaws in this game is the encouragement of munchkinism. I know most ST's are capable of dealing with it - but I can just imagine characters with a "Nervous Twitch" type flaw, and the "Cool Hand" knack or someone with poor eyesight and the "Eagle Eyes" knack.

I think I'm probably ranting now, and for no particular reason either.

I just don't think A! needs Merits - after all there are already Knacks - and inspiration points to give characters an 'edge'

And flaws tend towards people min/maxing - taking several low impact flaws to gain an overall advantage. Which really isn't the point of A! at all ..

[phoenix]

If you want your character to have a limp, then they have a limp, but it won't affect them beyond 'colour' for the character - their move rate would stay the same, and any athletics rolls would not suffer a penalty, because they've become that good in spite of their 'flaw'.

I don't like that idea; if you're going to have a limp you should change game statistics to show it. If you're going to be "that good, in spite of the 'flaw'", then you should just buy up Athletics to show that. But the whole point of a limp is that it makes you slower.

I think that there should be physical merits and flaws, just to show the benefits and drawbacks of character details the players would have anyway (like having a limp or being really, really big), but not mental ones or ones that would alter the character's decision-making. For instance, if they're a really bad liar, or can make decisions on the spot without hesitation, that should be role-played.

[madcat82]

While I can agree that you can fix flaws, I usualy let the players pay for it with time or experience points. My take on the merits/flaws was from the begining for humans and storyteller characters mostly If Im going to be totaly honest, but I think that there is some use for them for player characters too... Oh, and by the way, consider this: You are an ST. You have two players and you are playing adventure. One of the players is a good roleplayer who usualy does interesting characters with depth. The other is a munchkin. Now, the munchkin make a character that is pointswise extremly good, preferably in combat. The other player makes a character with a solid background and a rather large flaw, he is for instance deaf. Now, what are you going to do?? The gamebalance is rather shifted, so eather you disallow points for deaf and lets the character live with it, or you give him some compensation in the form of bonus points... As I mentioned earlier, life is not fair, but roleplaying can be.

This is merits/flaws that I consider appropriate.

Flaws:

Curiosity (2pt Flaw)

Illiterate (1pt Flaw)

Hard of Hearing (1pt Flaw)

Bad Sight (1 or 3pt Flaw)

Anosmia (2pt Flaw)

One Eye (2pt Flaw)

Deaf (4pt Flaw)

Blind (6pt Flaw)

Amnesia (2pt Flaw)

Deep Sleeper (1 pt Flaw)

Absent-Minded (3pt Flaw) (for scientists)

Paraplegic (6pt Flaw)

Lame (3pt Flaw)

One Arm (3pt Flaw)

Mute (4pt Flaw)

Compulsion (1pt Flaw)

Dark Secret (1 pt Flaw)

Nightmares (1pt Flaw)

Deranged (3pt Flaw)

Mistaken Identity (1 pt Flaw)

Enemy (1-5pt Flaw) (considering nemesis this one could be obsolete)

Notoriety (3 pt Flaw) (for villans)

Merits:

Nightclub (2pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Local Ties (1-4pt Merit)

University (4pt Merit)

Castle (5pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Mansion (2pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Time Sense (1pt Merit)

Eidetic Memory (2pt Merit)

Poison Resistance (1pt Merit)

Jack-Of-All-Trades (5pt Merit) (would perhaps work better as a knack)

[Finbar]

RE: Jack of all Trades

How does it work in Adventure! ? I know how it works in WoD (an imaginary dot in all Skills/Knowledges), but A! doesn't have that same structure...Would it be like a free dot in ALL abilities (and should it be raised to 7 pts)?

FR

[Ayre el KaBeer]

When creating my character for Asbjorn's game I asked for this merit and expected and recieved a "no". In Adventure it's simply not needed, especially with Instant Expert and the cost of abilities with transformation points.

[jamescukd]

How about this flaw from vampire the victorian age,

Dangerous Bias 3pt mental Flaw ::smile

[Bahamut810]

I was reading down through here and I hear a few good points for not adding merits and I do agree...it would be better to just make them knacks or forget them.

The Flaws, however, I think would be nice to have.

How about a list of flaws tradable for Inspiration points?

[Scorpion]

While I can agree that you can fix flaws, I usualy let the players pay for it with time or experience points.  My take on the merits/flaws was from the begining for humans and storyteller characters mostly If Im going to be totaly honest, but I think that there is some use for them for player characters too... Oh, and by the way, consider this: You are an ST. You have two players and you are playing adventure. One of the players is a good roleplayer who usualy does interesting characters with depth. The other is a munchkin. Now, the munchkin make a character that is pointswise extremly good, preferably in combat. The other player makes a character with a solid background and a rather large flaw, he is for instance deaf. Now, what are you going to do?? The gamebalance is rather shifted, so eather you disallow points for deaf and lets the character live with it, or you give him some compensation in the form of bonus points... As I mentioned earlier, life is not fair, but roleplaying can be.

This is merits/flaws that I consider appropriate.

Flaws:

Curiosity (2pt Flaw)

Illiterate (1pt Flaw)

Hard of Hearing (1pt Flaw)

Bad Sight (1 or 3pt Flaw)

Anosmia (2pt Flaw)

One Eye (2pt Flaw)

Deaf (4pt Flaw)

Blind (6pt Flaw)

Amnesia (2pt Flaw)

Deep Sleeper (1 pt Flaw)

Absent-Minded (3pt Flaw) (for scientists)

Paraplegic (6pt Flaw)

Lame (3pt Flaw)

One Arm (3pt Flaw)

Mute (4pt Flaw)

Compulsion (1pt Flaw)

Dark Secret (1 pt Flaw)

Nightmares (1pt Flaw)

Deranged (3pt Flaw)

Mistaken Identity (1 pt Flaw)

Enemy (1-5pt Flaw) (considering nemesis this one could be obsolete)

Notoriety (3 pt Flaw) (for villans)

Merits:

Nightclub (2pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Local Ties (1-4pt Merit)

University (4pt Merit)

Castle (5pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Mansion (2pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Time Sense (1pt Merit)

Eidetic Memory (2pt Merit)

Poison Resistance (1pt Merit)

Jack-Of-All-Trades (5pt Merit) (would perhaps work better as a knack)

You are an ST. You have two players and you are playing adventure. One of the players is a good roleplayer who usualy does interesting characters with depth. The other is a munchkin. Now, the munchkin make a character that is pointswise extremly good, preferably in combat. The other player makes a character with a solid background and a rather large flaw, he is for instance deaf. Now, what are you going to do?? The gamebalance is rather shifted, so eather you disallow points for deaf and lets the character live with it, or you give him some compensation in the form of bonus points

How is the game balance shifted?

Granted - if your game revolves around combat, and needing to be able to hear what your enemies are doing during that combat - then the player who's decided that their character is deaf is stuffed.

But then, the same applies, even if you give that player extra points to spend for being deaf. In a combat situation, the game balance is still against them, or any time they want to hear something, the game balance is against them. That's the point of it being a flaw isn't it?

I suppose is depends on how you view the use of flaws.

Are they part of the roleplaying experience - a way to add more depth to your character? or are they a method of getting more points to spend on your character?

No matter how much we may say it's not true just about everyone tries to buck the system one way or another during character creation. I'm not accusing everyone of being a "Min/Maxer" here - take your ninja-combat munchkin, for example. They take the Blind flaw, for a whopping 6 points. in return they want to spend two points on the Blindfighter Knack, and 1 Point on the Heightened senses knack, with the leftovers they'll take sensory filtering to counter any sensory overload from their heightened senses. For the purposes the characters been created for - kicking ass - they're MUCH better than they were before - and haven't spent any points on it all, net, antyway.

Though I suppose it rather depends on when you apply the Merits/Flaws to the mix, if you wish to use them.

Mind you, how many players would take certain Flaws if you insited that the points they gain must first be spent on "Flaw related skills" for example, a blind character must spend one point on learning to read Braille, and another on awareness to represent the greater care they will have to take with their other senses when moving around. Of course, a Min/Maxing player might at this point say "No, I don't want to spend points on reading Braille - Hey! that makes me Illiterate! - I get another point to spend!"

An extreme, perhaps, but how unlikely do you really think it is?

Just going through the list of Merits and Flaws that were given earlier - here are a few others that are already included in the system, or are easily countered on a point for point basis (dependant on where and what you would allow flaw points to be spent on) - not all of them have a comment, as not all of them are able to be covered using the existing system, that I can see, but as I've mentioned before - I don't feel they need to be.

Flaws:

Curiosity (2pt Flaw) - Essentially the Explorer Vice

Illiterate (1pt Flaw) -

Hard of Hearing (1pt Flaw) - Counter it with Heightened Senses - and you have a character with normal hearing and Heightened everything else?

Bad Sight (1 or 3pt Flaw) - See Hard of Hearing

Anosmia (2pt Flaw) - See Hard of Hearing if this is only Partial Anosmia

One Eye (2pt Flaw) - Counter it with Trick Shot - after all this is a Vision, not a Visibility penalty.

Deaf (4pt Flaw) -

Blind (6pt Flaw) - As discussed above

Amnesia (2pt Flaw) -

Deep Sleeper (1 pt Flaw) -

Absent-Minded (3pt Flaw) (for scientists)

Paraplegic (6pt Flaw) - Reptillian Regeneration?

Lame (3pt Flaw) - Ditto

One Arm (3pt Flaw) - Ditto

Mute (4pt Flaw) -

Compulsion (1pt Flaw) - Pick a Vice, any Vice .......

Dark Secret (1 pt Flaw) - Rather implicit in the Cipher background, or easily covered by it.

Nightmares (1pt Flaw) -

Deranged (3pt Flaw) -

Mistaken Identity (1 pt Flaw) - possibly even a downside of the Cipher background! or pay off half of the Forgettable Knack ...

Enemy (1-5pt Flaw) (considering nemesis this one could be obsolete)

Notoriety (3 pt Flaw) (for villans) - Reputation background - no-one said the reputation had to be good

Merits:

Nightclub (2pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Local Ties (1-4pt Merit) - Contacts/Allies/Influence

University (4pt Merit) - Backing/Contacts/Followers even?

Castle (5pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Mansion (2pt Merit) (considering sanctum this one could be obsolete)

Time Sense (1pt Merit) - A specialisation of Awareness?

Eidetic Memory (2pt Merit) - Again, a specialisation of Awareness?

Poison Resistance (1pt Merit) - A specialisation of Resistance

Jack-Of-All-Trades (5pt Merit) (would perhaps work better as a knack) - already covered by the Instant Expert knack

[Scorpion]

Bah!

Stupid Quotes!

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Am I reading this right, do you think merits/flaws are bought/exchanged with transformation points? Because they're not, they're bought/exchanged with/for bonus points (freebies).

[phoenix]

Are Transformation Points the Adventure! equivalent of Nova Points?

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Yes.

[Malckuss]

This is just my two-cents:

1] This is now WAY off-topic; I would REALLY like to see some errata here.

2] Merits and Flaws have always been optional, not mandate...if you don't want flaws in your game, then when the Adventure PG presumably comes out in 2004 w/ the other new books for the Aeonverse, ignore them and move on. Simple as that.

[madcat82]

This is just my two-cents:

1] This is now WAY off-topic; I would REALLY like to see some errata here.

2] Merits and Flaws have always been optional, not mandate...if you don't want flaws in your game, then when the Adventure PG presumably comes out in 2004 w/ the other new books for the Aeonverse, ignore them and move on. Simple as that.

Merits and Flaws have always been optional, not mandate...if you don't want flaws in your game, then when the Adventure PG presumably comes out in 2004 w/ the other new books for the Aeonverse, ignore them and move on. Simple as that.

Well said...

[madcat82]

This is just my two-cents:

1] This is now WAY off-topic; I would REALLY like to see some errata here.

2] Merits and Flaws have always been optional, not mandate...if you don't want flaws in your game, then when the Adventure PG presumably comes out in 2004 w/ the other new books for the Aeonverse, ignore them and move on. Simple as that.

Merits and Flaws have always been optional, not mandate...if you don't want flaws in your game, then when the Adventure PG presumably comes out in 2004 w/ the other new books for the Aeonverse, ignore them and move on. Simple as that.

Well said...