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Quantum Promise

Aberrant RPG - Level 6 Quantum Powers

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Im looking at the Level 6 powers listed in the APG, and I'm seeing some irregularities. Can somebody out ther say, honestly now, that being able to create a universe (!) in your own image in ANY way compares to pumping out massive levels of Quantum (Quantum Inferno) ? I realize that there is tremendous ammounts of training and finnese (sp?) required to unleashe a veritable #### storm of Quantum, but Universe Creation allows the nova to make an entire temporal/spatial actuality, complete with worlds teeming with life and whatever laws of physics the creator wishes to impose.

 Long story short, I think the powers Creation Ex Nihilo and Quantum Inferno deserve Level 5 treatment. These powers have worldwide impact, just as others of that level do, but dont have the same impact on the foundations of the Universe that Planck Scaling and Universe Creation do. Who's with me?

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Not me.  The other level 5s let you manipulate stuff on a planetary level.  Alter one race.  Create one bug.  Change the weather, etc.

Creating/destroying a planet is another step up.

Not all powers on the same level are of the same utility ("Danger Sense" & Claws vs. Q-Conversion and Bio-Lum.).  Speciality characters aside, slap Claws on the typical character and you have done something; Slap Q-Conversion on him and you have not.

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Now, to be fair, Creation Ex Nihilo does not actually let you create a planet, but rather planet sized area of somesubstance. Giant mass of gum = yes ; Earth-like habitable world = no.

  See, the problem I have with  Quantum Inferno is the simplicity of the concept of expelling massive ammounts of Quantum or making something the size of a planet, as opposed to the tremendous complexity of breaking down physical laws (Planck Scaling) and creating entire spatial/temporal actualities (Universe Creation). Hell, if anything, I would think the rest of you would agree that being able to create an ENTIRE UNIVERSE at the very least transcends Creation Ex Nihilo (a power ranked at level 6, just like Universe Creation), and at most is beyond all other listed powers in any of the books. In either case, since there is no seventh level of Quantum Power,  Planck Scaling and Universe Creation should be considered the only Level 6 powers (until someone posts some new ones).

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Quantum Inferno is another one of those "this is the effect, you can explain how it works yourself" types of powers.  Your Q-Inferno could be defined as making something retroactively stop existing, or aging something to death, or black hole projection.  I will admit that creating your own universe can be seen as more powerful, but which would you really rather have in a fight?

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By and large I tend to ignore the level 4-6 Quantum Powers, not because I don't find them keen, but because there is no way on Earth or in Hades that I'm letting my players get anywhere _near_ them. I hold them up as " Yes, all novas have the potential to do this. " but subtly remind my players that by the time they reach Quantum levels of 8-10 they'd be toting around at least 5 points worth of Taint and a whole slew of aberrations. I mean, I find novas of Quantum 1-5 scary enough. . .any higher and I'd be fleeing like Tokyo from Godzilla.  ::wow

-Defender.

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you can pick up the Abberrant Players Guide on www.white-wolf.com  I gotta say though that I wasn't overly impressed. Also just to throw in my .02 franc worth I feel that PC's shouldn't have access to such high level powers without a game that spans literally years real time. But that is just my opinion and I tend to think of Abberant as one giant Quantum powered gun bunny's wet dream.It just screams of too much WoD... but I digress so if you will excuse me I will stop now...  ::cola  ::smokin

Paxs Pimp

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Welcome aboard, 7hertz. Hope you enjoy the zaniness that is EON.  ::thumbs-up

The APG is the Aberrant Player's Guide. It has tons of info for the Aberrant world packed inside, including the levels 4-6 powers that you're seeking.

It's still available from White Wolf (on their site) for $25.95 USD.

-Joseph

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heya 7hertz, nice to have you on the boards! hope you enjoy your stay. the aberrant players guide can be found in various gamming shops in short supply or online at white wolf's online catalogue. in it are detailed fixes to old powers in the main book, new powers, and powers at levels 4,5,and 6. these 456 powers are grotesque in the extremem and are intended for use on npcs and a very few canon characters. they include altering global climate and weather patterns, time and dimensional travel, creation (as in, the almighty "let there be light" creation) and massive destruction (fire and brimstone, leveling continents destruction) theres also more story and world info and other such pleasantries in the book, a nice grab for any aberrant player or st.

hope that helps and again, welcome.

jake

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Doesn't it also hint more at the Slider scandal and who is responsible? It has been a couple of months since I have read it in depth... i think... maybe I read it a few days ago... I dunno I can't remember. Either way I am pretty sure that it does hint more at who the parties responsible for the Slider Murder are.

a rather forgetful Paxs Pimp...  ::wacko

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Thanks for the welcome!

I really want this APG...COSMIC powers no less...hmmm...

Bang goes my spare time for the next 3 weeks as I convert Marvel Saga stats to aberrant.

Actually, I feel an alternate Marvel Universe continuity coming on...

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OK..I'm pretty bored and desperate. I've mail ordered the APG and it wont be arriving until next week.

Can anyone let me have a sneak preview of one of the level 6 'Cosmic' powers?

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time travel, crosstime (dimensional) travel, disease/quantum/elemental/whatever authority (global control), universe creation, creation ex nihlo (create stuff), quantum inferno (don't just kill it right, don't just kill it now, kill it RIGHT NOW!!!), planc scaling (i.e. i am god in a bubble) and a few others. that was in no particular order btw, just a general list off the top of my head. descriptions for system are a bit vague and generally undefined, but the effects are so huge it'd be hard to have a real system for them anyway.

jake

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Yeesh, the Player's Guide can tick me off at times. . .I mean, consider Universe Creation a moment. Universe. Creation. Sweet Jebus, why deny and deny that Aberrant is a twinkish game when you've got a power like that sitting around? It's the frickin' smoking gun for pity's sake!

*grumbles* Sorry, I love Aberrant, but sometimes I have to wonder at the odd choices they make. . . ::sneaky2

-Defender.

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Cosmic Powers seem to grab me...the power of the gods in player's hands can be catastrophic (I know this from experience) but can be great for NPC's as tools for constructing adventures.

I just hope I can get some good ideas out of these... ::crazy

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Oh no doubt about that. The powers make for great inspiration, plust there's a ton of useful information and ideas in the PG that more than make it worth the wait. I don't think you'll be disappointed.  :)

-Defender.

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And a few tactical nukes scared the Aberrants away? Sad story telling White Wolf, very sad indeed.

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not bad storytelling, accurate story telling. who do you think would be the a-1 first target novas? any and all who could single handedly change the world, thats who. beyond that, it wasn't just the humans and nukes, novas were against other novas. where a nova army would stand, another one of equal strength would take the opposing side and also be backed by several world govs. beyond that, of all those powers in the apg, there's only a handfull (as in, i can count them on one hand) of novas with even the prerequisite power levels to ever develope those powers. and among those, probably a third were with humanity, a third were against it and a third didn't care at all. those numbers work, not only do they work but they are repeatedly alluded to in text, there's only supposed to be a couple dozen novas in 2008 with quantum above 5. nukes scared em' off? hell yes they did, not every nova was a galaxy crushing brick sh*thouse.

to clarify, i don't like the powerlevel  of aberrant, but i'm not gonna say it can't work, you just have to think a little first.

jake

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And a few tactical nukes scared the Aberrants away? Sad story telling White Wolf, very sad indeed.

I think Jake summed it up about right. One thing I'd like to add, though, is that those nukes weren't tactical. Full blown "melt your spandex to your backside" fission warheads. Tac nukes didnt really come into play until Trinity, if I recall.

About the bad storytelling, I'm somewhat divided. On the whole, I disagree. Aberrant, by itself, is decently well done. A bit over powered with some plot sizeable holes, but not bad.

It's when you being it inline with the other two games in the series that I lmost agree with you. The biggest factor one must consider is the developer difference. Bates and Baugh have very close thoughts and ideals for the Trinity universe. (From my observations.) Blackwelder took the midgame, Aberrant, on a deviant path, kicking it a bit out of cohesion in respects for the other two games.

So, yes and no. Depends on how you look at it. Personally, I give Thingmaker better odds at getting Aberrant set right.  :)

-Joseph

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::malrules Just a thought---these 456 powers were really meant to create a cosmic entity ala The Celestials and Galactus, not a "super-person", per se.  The best use of Q6-8 is for the show of Mastery Levels of existing powers, if the storyteller allows them at all.

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I tend to agree with you on that point. Players who made it to those Quantum levels would  have to have a VERY good reason for their powers taking a Qualitative as opposed to a Quantitative leap forward . For example, I wouldn't allow a Telekinetic with Molecular Control (defined as telekinetically manipulating molecules) to so much as buy the  Molecular Alteration technique, less so a single dot of Molecular Authority. It just dosn't fit. But it does beg the question "How do you justify developing these new powers?". Sometimes, the answer is obvious. If a character has ten dots and three levels of Mastery on his kinetic bolt, he is entirely justified in taking the next step (buying a dot or two in Quantum Inferno). But what about something odd, like Quantum Authority? Should a character have some sort of prerequisite powers before he can journey into the strange new world of Uber-powers?

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Because the rules start to break down at Q6+.  Another way to look at this is everyone gets the new theme "godlike" at Q6+.  Yet another way to look at this is themes expand at Q6+.  

There is a world of difference between "my q-bolt is made of earth" and Geo-Supremacy.  For that matter, there is a world of difference between q-bolt (available at Q=1) & any of the Level 3 powers, but presumably there is an upgrade.

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In my opinion the level six powers are all relatively equal in scope. although I think Creation Ex Nihilo needs some beefing up, maybe extended area or actually being able to create matter from pure quantum on a huge scale.

Universe Creation may seem Uber powerful but in my opinion it is no more than Crosstime Travel with the Exotic Worlds Extra.

Plank scaling in my opinion is the most powerful of the level 6 powers because it gives the nova at least 2 nova points per use.

Dr. Arbitrary.

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"In my opinion the level six powers are all relatively equal in scope. although I think Creation Ex Nihilo needs some beefing up, maybe extended area or actually being able to create matter from pure quantum on a huge scale."

 But that's exactly what Creation Ex Nihilo allows you to do. I think the way the PG puts it is that the power allows the player to create huge amounts of matter from the fundemental foundations of the universe, but that sounds like Quantum to me.

"Universe Creation may seem Uber powerful but in my opinion it is no more than Crosstime Travel with the Exotic Worlds Extra."

 At first glance, perhaps, but it really is tremendously more powerful. When you create a universe (and remember, you ARE creating a universe, not traveling to one), you can make it in your image. To me, that means you can also define how the universe reacts to you (ie:how populations view you, and how physical laws bend in your presence, etc.). For example: I have run a few games where I allowed my players to have access to the powers listed in the PG (the premise was that the players were RPing the ultimate expression of their own characters). One of my players, whose character was a minor matter/energy manipulator in th "main" game, had become master of the atom and a veritable "creator god" at the other end of time. He made a universe creation roll and actually managed 10 sucesses (yeah, he did have 10 dots in Universe Creation. Remember, this was an imaginary game set billions of years in the future.) He made a list of criteria that his universe was defined by among which was that space-time , matter and energy warped in his universe is such a way that he had the equivilant of Mega-Strength and Dexterity 10 while in his universe. Since he had 10 secc., I allowed it.

"Planck Scaling in my opinion is the most powerful of the level 6 powers because it gives the nova at least 2 nova points per use."

Well, Im going to agree with your earlier point and say that  all of the Level 6 powers are indeed equal. In that level, you can create tremendous amounts of matter and incredibly complex forms from simple ones (Creation Ex Nihilo), utterly destroy any physical structure known to man, all the way up to the scale of planets (Quantum Inferno), and become the Supreme Being of very limited spaces (Planck Scaling, the consumation of any and all powers that manipulate anything whatsoever).

 Universe Creation, however, is a feat SO GODLIKE that it sticks out like a sore thumb when put in the same group as the other Level 6 powers. Create a planet= Level 6. Destroy a planet= level 6. God of a bubble= Level 6. "And the Lord God said "Let There Be Light""= we need a level 7, hell, maybe a level 10 category to put this power in.

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but it really is tremendously more powerful. When you create a universe (and remember, you ARE creating a universe, not traveling to one), you can make it in your image. To me, that means you can also define how the universe reacts to you

With cross time travel and a huge amount of successes I think you could produce a very similar effect.

Also, I don't see how anyone could disagree that a power that gives between 2 and maybe 20 nova points each use is by far the most powerful power. Extrapolating from the table in the core book, a level 6 power costs 11 nova points. After a week of using Plank scaling one could easily get several hundred nova points. How long do you think it would take to fill up every little dot on a character sheet at that rate.

Dr. Arbitrary

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...I don't see how anyone could disagree that a power that gives between 2 and maybe 20 nova points each use is by far the most powerful power. Extrapolating from the table in the core book, a level 6 power costs 11 nova points. After a week of using Plank scaling one could easily get several hundred nova points...

It has been a while since I read that section, but I don't remember the effects of PS lasting beyond the duration of the bubble.

Although there is a power that does exactly that (i.e. add/subtract Nova points).  I think it is the Q6(!?) Quantum Authority power.  Usuable only once a day, but it goes a long way to explain why Mal is so tough.  

(I hope I'm wrong and it is the Q8 Q-Supreme power).

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"(I hope I'm wrong and it is the Q8 Q-Supreme power)."

Lucky you, you are wrong. You're thinking of Quantum Transformation, a technique of Quantum Supremacy. However, the changes one makes to themselves inside of a Planck Scale are, indeed ,permenant. It's not a Level 6 power for nothing.

"I don't see how anyone could disagree that a power that gives between 2 and maybe 20 nova points each use is by far the most powerful power. Extrapolating from the table in the core book, a level 6 power costs 11 nova points. After a week of using Planck scaling one could easily get several hundred nova points"

 

Hmm. I just had a revelation. I think Dr. Arbitrary is correct, that PS IS the most powerful ability in the game. You see, PS not only grants the character Nova Points, it makes them all powerful , as long as they are standing inside of a Scale of their own making.  By all powerful, I mean you have access to as much as ten dots in any/all powers (for the storie's sake, I would limit that access to as many dots as the character has in PS). I say Arbitrary may be correct because, caoncievably, a character could create as many universes as they pleased while the scale was active, and then turn around and make them permenant by spending Nova points to rejuvinate the willpower expenditure of making them permenant. Hell, while your in the scale, you could probably make all of those universes 10 succ. creations, too.

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Wow, It's not often that I'm right so this is a cool experience. I hope I can avoid the urge to gloat  :)

I think for a story's sake it would be best to limit how often they can use PS. It would kind of kill the plot if a character spent two hours rolling dice and deciding what new powers he wants.

I think PS would be a better end to a series than as one of the normal powers.

I suppose that there could be exceptions but they would take a lot of planning and care on the behalf of the Storyteller

Dr. Arbitrary

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However, the changes one makes to themselves inside of a Planck Scale are, indeed ,permenant. It's not a Level 6 power for nothing.

So in other words you retain permenant godhood and natural laws remain permenantly broken?  That doesn't sound right.  Sure, if someone dies they stay dead, but when the bubble goes, so do its effects.

Or at least most of its effects, one could make an argument for somethings, but rewriting Quantum signitures seems extreme.

Some years ago (before Abby) I was in a campaign where one of the PCs effectively had this power.  Most of the rest of us were Q5 or less (some much less).  It actually worked pretty well.  The player abused the power in stupid ways but since his omnipotence had a limited range it was bearable.  (One of the other players did comment that if any of the other PCs had that power it wouldn't be bearable).  One of his in game problems was that he had difficulty relating to reality.  When what you think is, *is*, that shouldn't be a suprise.

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Players guide:page 139, 2nd collumn, first paragraph

"each success on the Planck Scaling roll provides a pool of two nova points that each person inside the bubble can spend on PERMANENT modifications" (emphasis mine)

Dr. Arbitrary

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What I  meant by that was that while inside of the bubble (as long as you made it), you have theoretically unlimited power. The blurb about two nova points per success only applies to other people inside of a bubble not of their making (meaning you can alter yourself without constraint. Just be careful). I probably wouldnt allow a person to have more power to alter themselves in their own bubble than anyone else does, but thats just how the rules were written.

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I can't remember where it's written in the books, but eruption is compared to Plank scaling, something to the effect of "for an instant the Nova has unlimited power, then the Nova sets up limitations on themselves"

Also in the Plank scaling description it says that Novas find the experience similar to that of eruption.

I think it makes sense to allow a Nova to increase their powers while they are in the bubble, regardless of whether or not they were the one that created it.

Dr. Arbitrary

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"I think it makes sense to allow a Nova to increase their powers while they are in the bubble, regardless of whether or not they were the one that created it."

 So do I. What Im saying is, as the rules are written, if a character is inside of a Planck Scale of his own making, that character has absolute soverignty over that space, and gains access to an unlimited source of powers and abilities....but only for the duration of the scale. On the same note, being the Supreme Being of the bubble means you can grant yourself any power/ability you desire, and at any level (1-10).

 What I meant in my previous post was that a good way to keep things from getting crazy (which they likely already have, throwing around Godhood like this) was to limit the permenant changes  the creator of the Scale can make to himself the same way it is done for any other denziens of the bubble (that being 2 Nova Points per success on the Planck Scaling rolll).

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What I meant in my previous post was that a good way to keep things from getting crazy (which they likely already have, throwing around Godhood like this) was to limit the permenant changes  the creator of the Scale can make to himself the same way it is done for any other denziens of the bubble (that being 2 Nova Points per success on the Planck Scaling rolll).

after re-reading your post I now understand what you were saying. Sorry for misinterpreting it.

Dr. Arbitrary

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What Im saying is, as the rules are written, if a character is inside of a Planck Scale of his own making, that character has absolute soverignty over that space, and gains access to an unlimited source of powers and abilities....but only for the duration of the scale. On the same note, being the Supreme Being of the bubble means you can grant yourself any power/ability you desire, and at any level (1-10).

Very true, but where they try to enforce their godhood outside the bubble is where things get dicy.  They could alter space and time inside so that they ineffect create a universe (although much of it would snap back when natures laws were re-enforced).  But what is important here is the view of the person outside the bubble.

If someone gave himself Q-Bolt and then fired it on a target outside the bubble, I'd probably say he could do that.

If someone gave himself Q-Infernal and then did the same thing, I'd probably say that he could not.  

At a bare minimum, using one L6 power to mimic another seems unreasonable.  Whether he could mimic L5 powers is a different question.  (Although again, inside the bubble he obviously could).  We already know that the bubble has limits, you can't use your power to expand the range of the bubble.

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