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Mr Fox

Aberrant: Infinite Earth - Infinite Earth OOC: General Discussion

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Cliquishness isn't just having fun with friends...it is when it become elitist and a group stigmatizes or shuts out someone because they feel they they are better and the other person's (ideas, tastes, etc.) are "wrong" or "lesser."

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That said how do we all have fun together (solution oriented)???

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What you just gave me is a dead end or catch 22: "I don't enjoy playing with you and I won't play with you until I enjoy playing with you."

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...if you won't interact, then where is there an opportunity for new experiences? If you won't interact, how will things have an opportunity to be different?

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Can you see why i feel so shut-out?

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A few people on here, Saku and Dave and others seem to be willing to let things change, but if you won't let things change then it is just reinforcing the old pattern. The circle must open for healing to take place.

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Edit: was ninja'd:

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There is little functional difference between overall cliquishness and exclusivity against one person: You only include the people you like and exclude those you don't. Both involve an in-group and an outsider.

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Okay I see a few problems and unfortunately for you Sky you are getting hit with them.

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First off; your past. In general I agree with forgiving someone their past, particularly on a web based forum. We all say and do things in the heat of passion and anger that we come to regret later, even more-so in the anonymous environment that is the internet. However that doesn't mean those deeds are forgotten, nor should they be. To simply forget the behavior is to open up oneself to be a victim of it again

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While I was not witness to them you have apparently pulled out some pretty misogynistic behavior. That kind of thing is not easily forgiven and almost never forgotten. Bigoted behavior is not tolerated here at all, whether it be racist, homophobic, misogynistic or even Anti-religion to some extent. Period. Sure we make fun of certain things here but it's because a trust has been built. I am not offended by Dave cracking gay jokes with me because I know he's not trying to make fun of me or hurt me. This is going to be a huge bridge to rebuild for you and you cannot expect the abusive behavior to be swept under the rug and forgotten about, particularly by the people it was directed at.

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Now, when it comes to cliquishness and play style you have a few problems to overcome. First off you have to understand that the many of the people have put years of their time, effort and energy here. While everyone is equal, there is a respect for those people because they have kept this place alive. I may have been one of original posters here under the name Atwight, but I gave up my seniority when I took my toys and stormed off one day.

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If people seem protective and clannish about how things are run here it's because they earned the right to be that way. The play style of this place has come about through a sort of evolution of general consensus and to have you barge in and try to change it is going to be met with a cold shoulder. To whine about how people pick on the ignored play style (in this case power gaming) is not going to win sympathy from anyone. Why would we just switch our preferred game style to how you want to play just because you've decided to grace us with your presence?

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If that seems overly harsh I'm not sorry. In any social situation the new person does not set the rules but must modify their behavior to make themselves fit in with the group they are trying to join. It's the same here. Is power gaming a valid play style? Sure, but for the most part, not here. And that is by majority consensus. If you want to play games here you either need to start one in your preferred style of play of learn to enjoy the play styles of the games you are trying to join. But the onus of fitting in is on you as the new person.

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If you are feeling shut out then you have to look at your actions both past and present to find out why. Clearly, you have a long way to go to rebuilding trust and respect with Carver and Malachite. Considering that Carver is one of the most prominent and prolific writers here and one of the sites primary motivators I would say that should be a key goal. Mending fences goes along way to showing the community that you can be trusted to be a decent human being even if we aren't seeing eye to eye at the moment.

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Learning to fit in to the play style of the games you are looking to join will also go along way to gaining the acceptance that you are looking for. Trying to cram is inappropriate concepts that require a heavy dose of ST handwavium into a preexisting game only serves to irritate the people who then have to take time out from their "happy pretendy fun times" to debate and house rule a system that clearly was not designed to bend it in the way you are attempting to bend it. Just look a how much time and energy has been wasted in the past two or three days on this nonsense.

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Oh and as an aside. Aberrant is probably the worst system you could choose to use as a "powers toolkit." Seriously, the only reason I can think of for someone who "likes coming up with unique and interesting power sets" wouldn't choose to use a system specifically designed for just such things like Mutants and Masterminds or Champions is because those systems make it that much harder to "game the system." By that I mean twist the rules to derive the maximum benefit for the least amount if drawback. The only reason I can think of for why someone would choose to use Aberrant for such is because the rules are so vague and easily abused it makes it easier for someone to slip abusive, over powered crap past unsuspecting or inexperienced storytellers.

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Anyways, those are my (admittedly) random and meandering thoughts on the situation but really it all boils down to this. If you want to fit in here Sky, then it's up to you to change to suite the community and not the other way around. That may not seem fair but such is life.

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100 % agree with everything you just said.

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Except for the part about reasons for choosing Aberrant. I used to play Hero system back in the day. I will probably get into M&M sometime this year (still trying to wrap my brain around Eclipse Phase). It really is as I said. I find the dot system to just be very elegant and easy. I make a character in 10 minutes. Very handy. Hero System took hours! This is also what I like about the old school Advanced Marvel Super Heroes RPG. My group used the Marvel system to play Rifts, and it worked brilliantly. I had been playing a lot of Mage and Vampire, and Champions and so when Aberrant came out I fell in love with it.

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And...I keep coming back. In spite of the general dislike around here, you guys must like to play it too, since you are keeping it alive...

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So, question...what do you love about Aberrant?

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I can't claim to like it. I just don't hate it so much I can't stomach it at all.

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It's not the game system that draws me here, it's the other people. I'd be happy as a clam if everyone switched to other systems permanently. :)

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But I'm pretty happy regardless. It's all good.

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As for the rest: You done cheesed off a lotta people. To change that, you'll have to show, over time, that you've changed for the better (in their eyes). Join a few games, and play nice, and be an all-around decent person...and eventually people will change their minds about you.

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I don't recommend making conscious efforts to 'make amends' at this point though. It seems to me like it'd come off as artificial. An attempt to rebrand your 'messaging' as opposed to actually making substantial changes to what folks objected to in the first place (See: Republican Party circa 2012).

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Just play where you can, and play nice. Don't try to force things.

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I used to like Aberrant until I met you, to be honest. But I really really don't want to get deeper involved in this conversation. So that's the only feedback you'll hear from me.

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Thanks Smax.

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Edit: Upon reflection, it occurs to me that I am not so worried about my own ability to play nice. I just wonder if people will interact with my characters as my characters and not just steer clear of them because they know it is me. I guess I'm just concerned the OOC drama will affect what happens IC.

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What you just gave me is a dead end or catch 22: "I don't enjoy playing with you and I won't play with you until I enjoy playing with you."

...if you won't interact, then where is there an opportunity for new experiences? If you won't interact, how will things have an opportunity to be different?

Can you see why i feel so shut-out?

I can understand your feelings. As I stated before, you have burned the previous chances I gave you to be my friend. I have told you over and over in this thread that your change comes before I'll alter my behavior. That's because the last times that I took you at your word and extended the hand of trust and friendship again, I got hurt. You have to prove you've changed. To do that, play nice with those who will play with you. Write cooperative stories with them in A&A (that's the first game you're joining in IE, right?) where you are considerate of their feelings and what they want in the story. Show me the change in the venue we'd be interacting.

You're going to have to work off your past behavior, and it's going to take time and effort on your part.

So, question...what do you love about Aberrant?

Nothing really. I'd be really happy if we all switched over to M&M for our superhero fun-times. We'd lose some of the flavor of Abby, but you can just take the smart parts of the setting into a new system. I think that Abby, for me, is like McDonalds. It tasted pretty good compared at first, if you ordered the right thing. But then it made your stomach hurt cause it was so greasy. Now, you eat it because your friends want to go there, but you just don't care for it any longer. Abby is the game I play when my friends insist on it.

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I like Aberrant because I know the system pretty well. It's simple and I am comfortable enough with it that I feel confident in changing things when I feel it's appropriate. It's not a perfect system, there are certainly some serious game breaking issues that without a good group of players, or a good ST could send a game into a death spiral in about 2 seconds flat. Even so, I like it.

One other thing I like about it is the fact that they did include rules for taking things to cosmic levels. I don't want to play in games every day where Galactus types are running around with the ability to snuff out entire planets with the snap of their fingers, but I do like the fact that you CAN tell those stories from time to time. It was one of the reasons I set up the IE section in the first place, there just wasn't any other active game or OW that allowed those power levels. Of course, I specifically set this section up so that it could accommodate any power level from Universe Creation to baseline or anything in between, and still not step on each others toes.

All that said, I would like to learn M&M, but I just haven't had the time or energy to do so yet. I'm not a big fan of learning new systems, so it takes a serious draw to make me give up the beat up comfortable old pair of boots that is Aberrant.

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Now that that has passed, I am getting Yomi and Daniel back into the swing of things.

With some non-mature plotting.

As such, I am offering a window for potential players to join in and take a trip.

It will be standard IE rules (as this is the core IE multi-verse), and can be from any established universe or one of your own creating.

We will be embarking from the universe I and Daniel currently are in. (Universe 343 - The Universe of Heroes) And we will be embarking to a universe I am still thinking of.If people are interested, if I hear someone wanting to join, I will wait for cahracter generation.

One note: I reserve the right to approve someone to join us. For all intent and purpose, I am the ST for adventures on the Hikari Maru.

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I had an idea...

Would people be more interested in a lower-power multiverse? One that didn't cross with the IE multiverse? I do want to have a game where the chracters in the game have the opportunity of telling a new story with every thread, in a new place. I'm just not sure something like this can work in oh... let's say a 40NP with a default build setting, that caps at a certain level.

The universe hops are controlled, and the characters are, for various reasons, exploring as a team together.

I just wonder what could tie these different people from different universes together and what would drive them to explore their isolated corner of the multiverse.

Suggestions?

Note: I'd like a couple others to collab on this so we're "Co-STs" on this, and yeah... this does sound like Sliders. :P

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This could easily be within the IE setting. Just as CN is part of the IE continuum, but works on different rules, there could be a "region" of the multiverse where the novas simply don't get as powerful.

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there could be a "region" of the multiverse where the novas simply don't get as powerful.

A nova starts out with 30NP. "Don't get as powerful" or "Aren't supergods"? :P Don't get me wrong, I totally support our higher power lifestyle, but we are not the norm :D

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SMUUUUUTTTTT!

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No, not really. I just felt like yelling "Smut!"

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It's fun! Especially when surrounded by religious conservatives.

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30 points is doable. Strait vanilla generation. Just curious then on how the group gets together.

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I'm going to be the bitch that goes on record to say: don't give us a build and points and rules and numbers until you know what the world is going to be.

Why is CN doing well? In part, because it was the first. But a huge part of that is that we built a world that makes a certain amount of sense, ties back to Abby in a unusual way and leaves the damned terrible metaplot out of the game. So you get the best of all worlds: many of the concepts and philosophies that draw people to Abby while cutting out 90% of the stuff people don't like.

Why is A&A catching on? Beyond the "you can punch NAZIS!" part, you have a world that was clearly defined from the start. It also draws on things that people like to see in games: heroics, a clear conflict and definite evil, and superpowers. We threw in Steampunk because it seemed a great match for the idealism and scientific achievement of the day.

So what I am rambling about is this: if you want to make a game, go for it. Just define it with things that people are looking for in games. I've long advocated that IE is way too big, which is why you don't see any activity in it. However, as a place where people can create an infinite number of worlds to play in, it's great. If you make low-powered IE, you need to define the world(s) you're using and what the game is going to be. It doesn't grab anyone's interest if there's nothing in it for people to grab.

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Good point.

I think I asked this more to say... "See I got this box full of parts and I got an idea... but I really don't think I can do this alone... so... wanna help put whatever this is together?"

In a way I'm not launching this soon... this will take some time to plan. It might not even happen possibly.

I think I'll think on this.

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I got something planned, and from here on all of my threads if they involve more than myself and Daniel will be ST driven. Not open world.

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I might be up to starting off something new in IE, but I gotta talk to Justin first. Might just be Him and I.

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Ya, the only reason why I said it is between Justin and I is more for planning. I think a multi-universe spanning adventure would be cool, but run less open world. I tried that once but I think I fumbled but the overall idea was sound stripping some bad expys that were used.

It'll be a month or two, but I think IE can expect a fun new adventure soon.

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I've quit all the sub-universes of IE (CN/A&A) and I am also leaving IE. I just want to move on to other things.

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I'm just not feeling like I want to do anything with this particular game. Pure and simple.

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Seems I am returning to IE...

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Once I hear more details I am sure to be posting more info.

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Okay, this is the idea I and Envoy got going for a IE adventure. It'll be a Sliders style game, hopping from universe to universe via the Stonehenge Gate ONLY. A random group of people, and designed where people can come and go as needed.

If people want to run a story in a universe, it's a good thing, we can round-robin.

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