Another Question for our UK Crew

[Guest]

Alright, alright. Since the thread has gone away, I'll ask again;

What exactly is going on in the United Kingdom (ye gods, what an ironic title, eh?)? Like I said before, I apologize for not having more knowledge of this, but most of what I know I learned on my own, a product of our fabulous school system here in America. I think I've got a pretty good handle on what's going on, but I'd rather hear it from someone who deals with it every day of their lives.

Also, for our Irish Crew, what do you folks have in the way of colleges? And by the way, thanks Aeon for giving me a heads-up. Do you think you could, uh...tell me again?

--Avenger

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"Don't try to run, you son of a bitch. You'll just die tired."

avengingcrusader@hotmail.com

[Stheno]

Well, we here in Ireland have lots of colleges. Unfortunately, they have to answer to the world for having produced Coriolis, Hazzard, Bagman, Fr Ryan and myself, not to mention a large number of other certifiably daft people.

What exactly do you want to know about college in Ireland ?

If you're Irish it's cheap(-ish...supposedly it's free). If you're one of them furriners it could be more expensive, and if you're one of them furriners from outside the EU it's considerably more expensive again. But I do have the impression that the cost compares rather favourably with that of studying at third level on your side of the pond.

Lacking a better understanding of what you actually want to know, that's the best I can do.

I hope that's of some assistance.

[The Ranger]

Universities in Ireland? Lemee see:

National University of Ireland (NUI) Galway

Spawning ground of our little group of nutters. Famous for its nightlife.

UCC (Univeristy College Cork)

Home of the Largest gaming society in Ireland (WARPS). Hosts Warpcon every year, one of the most enjoyable conventions around. Cork is built on a cliff face. The only flat ground is the river.

UCD (University College Dublin)

Big place. Some nice folks. Designed by a prison architect. I'm not kidding - it was built during the student unrest of the sixties and there is no area for a large group of students to get together.

UL (University if Limerick)

Hosts a convention every year also. (Damned if I can remember its name) Only became a university in the past five years. Very tough and gets good results.

NUI Maynooth

Once again, a convention host. Very informal convention. You can sleep for free in the university gym if you wish. Nice place but only a tiny town.

TCD (Trinity College Dublin)

Very old and "distingushed" place in the center of Dublin. They have two gaming socs but one is devoted to general Sci-fi I think? Has an undeserved snobbish reputation.

DCU (Dublin City Univeristy)

Campus is scattered around Dublin City. Can't tell you much about it.

There are also about a dozen or so institutes of technology scattered around the country mainly dealing with science, business and other areas.

What is going on in the United Kingdom? How should I know, I live in Ireland, we're a seperate country

But seriously, up north is where the problems are. Its hard to throw away years of hatred and fear I guess. It is difficult to understand for people not from the British Isles (another wonderful name!) but what happens in the North has very little impact on the day to day lives of those in Southern Ireland. It's like another country really.

[This message has been edited by The Ranger (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Coriolis]

I'll just wait until I know what exactly you're asking.

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Bast protect us all.

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ranger:
UCD (University College Dublin)
Big place. Some nice folks. Designed by a prison architect. I'm not kidding - it was built during the student unrest of the sixties and there is no area for a large group of students to get together.

You are aware that the same thing has been said of other Universities worldwide?
http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/riot.htm

As they say on the site: "As various wags have pointed out, everything built during the 1970s resembles a medium-security prison. The blocky, functional style was in."

[The Ranger]

Wow, interesting site. The word I heard was that, the guy was a prison architect, from eastern europe no less. Makes you wonder how much of what you hear is complete bull. Although maybe thats just what the government wants you to think...I see another conspiracy theory comming up.

[This message has been edited by The Ranger (edited 09-11-2001).]

[Jager]

How about the Hibernian Isles? Albion, Hibernia, the Orkneys, and the Shetlands. Let's not forget the Isle of Wight and the Isle of Man. Am I missing any?

On an historical note; Now that the Irish have 'driven' the English out of Ireland, how long before you invade them? Isn't it an imperative that one of you invade the other?

[The Ranger]

Well, ahem. Herbernian Isles? Unfortunetly it sounds a little to much like an insurance company we have over here

Shhhh. Don't ruin the supprise...the English will never know what hit them when we march on Downing Street and plet them with sheep droppings!

[Aeon]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ranger:

Shhhh. Don't ruin the supprise...the English will never know what hit them when we march on Downing Street and pelt them with sheep droppings!

And then we can give the new scottish parliament full powers and become independant. I see no problem with this. In fact - pretty please can I join in?

[Avenger]

I suppose my two real questions, more clearly, are:

1. To sum up, what I know about the Ireland/England/Scotland situation is that more or less, Ireland and Scotland were British "colonies" (inasmuch as India was a British colony) back in the day, but the natives didn't like this and tried to tell the crown to frig off. Recently, some blokes up in Northern Ireland got a little too revolutionary for the good of the crown and so England sent up jackbooted thugs to police the locals and make sure they don't act out. In response to (or perhaps the cause of) this, the IRA started using Guerilla tactics on their own territory in an effort to drive the British back. The IRA gets a lot of bad press, and from what I've heard from the Irish, there are many conflicting accounts of whether or not the IRA are embattled patriots trying to drive the British back to form an Irish sovereign state or kids playing revolutionaries who butcher innocents in a sad attempt to piss off the Brits.

Scotland and England hate each other, but are at a stalemate.

That's what I know, and I may be wrong. I know plenty of details, but if any of you could elucidate on that, I'd like to get the real deal. I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

Though if you ask me, the IRA would better serve by taking the war to the enemy, not fighting the occupation.

Also, if all this is going on with Northern Ireland, what's the deal with Southern Ireland?

2. I want to go to college someplace in Ireland/Scotland. I'll be studying Forensic Psychology (Criminology) and Journalism. I'll want to get a degree in Lit, too.

--Avenger

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Don't try to run, you son of a bitch. You'll just die tired.

avengingcrusader@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by Avenger (edited 09-12-2001).]

[The Ranger]

Aeon,

Yeah sure, but don't tell Wales. I don't trust them and their singing coal miners!

Avenger,

Galway does a good literary criticism course, I did it for my degree. Deals with everything from Shakespeare to Ginsberg. A little light on the more modern stuff though. They also do Journalism.

I hear Birmingham in England has a good forensics department but you might want to check that up.

OK history of Irish - English conflict in a nutshell. This is a very glossed over account.

1. England invade Ireland and take over. I believe their first incursion was by invitation of one Irish lord who wanted his neighbours ass kicked. Fool expected them to leave afterwards. This is in Norman times.

2. Ireland too fractured to fight back effectively and get their asses kicked.

3. Over the years English lords in Ireland become "more Irish than the Irish themselves" - naturalised.

4. England sends new lords/invaders. We get our asses whooped again.

5. England rules Ireland.

6. Numerous rebellions over the years.

7. Ireland rebels big time and puts political pressure behind it.

8. England eventually allows Ireland its own government - with strings.

9. Treaty signed that means that northern six counties of Ireland are still counted part of England.

10. The North divided between Catholic Republicans (want to be part of Ireland) and Protestant Loyalists (want to stay part of England).

11. Years of bloodshed and killing reenforce hatred between sides. By the way, the IRA has an equivalent organisation on the Loyalist side who kill Republicans so the cycle continues.

12. In 1990's after 60 odd years of terrorism the IRA declare a ceasefire. IRA splinters with some continuing to fight. Governments are still trying to get both sides into talks to resolve conflict.

Thats about where we are at now. The IRA are terrorists pure and simple as are their counterparts on the protestant side.

The deal with Southern Ireland is that its a small place and 99.99% of the population thinks the whole thing in the North is a tremendous waste. There are IRA supporters here though aswell. Speaking for myself I'd quite happily lock up every one of the so called freedom fighters on both sides in a big shed and gas the lot for being a bunch of murdering bastards.

[Jager]

It didn't help the Irish equations that the English imported settlers from England and Scotland as well. Also, the English had a real hate on for Irish Catholicism and any Irish that converted to Protestantism got more legal rights.

Advance the timeline 100 years and jump pass the potato famine.

The vast majority of the country is still Catholic, but the northeastern section (Ulster) has a large portion as Protestants. England reluctantly allows Ireland to go free, but worries about the Protestants they are leaving behind. So, they let the Ulster area remain English. Now, the Catholics in Ulster aren't to happy about this (wonder why). Better yet, the police in Ulster are primarily Protestant as well (it would be like an all white police force in Detroit, for us Yanks). So, the Irish turn to the IRA to get their way and join the rest of Ireland. Bloodshed insues.

Ranger, how did I do?

[The Ranger]

Pretty much covers it Jager. They have recently changed the police force but I am not sure how that is going. Very true about the laws too, they were called the Penal laws.

[Tuesday Childe]

I was under the, possibly mistaken, impression that the protestant/catholic dynamic was rooted in English machinations. Something to the effect that; concerned the Catholic Ireland would ally against England with Spain, the English pushed the Protestant religion and penalized Catholics. Any one else hear something similiar?

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Tuesday Childe

having far to go...

[Jager]

Not just Spain, but any Catholic power. France, for example, would occasionally stir things up among the Irish to distract England from her continental entanglements.

It also had to do with the dynastic struggle between the House of Tudor/Hannover(later Windsor)(the Protestants) and the House of Stuart (Catholic) for the English throne.

In short, the ruling house of Scotland (Stewart/Stuart) inherited the English Throne from the last of the Tudors. The Scots were Catholic at the time, but the English were Protestants. The first Stuart king (James I) does okay and decides not to antagonize his English subjects, but his son, Charles I, doesn't. Charles loses his head. The Protestant leader, Cromwell, who is loved in Ireland as much as the Black Plague and Impalement, takes over. Shortly after his death, the English invite the Stuarts back to the throne. James II rules okay, but his son Charles II, decides to mess with the religious thing again (Catholic king/Protestant country) and he gets ousted.

Now it gets complicated, because the Scottish become Presbyterians (Protestant) while their royal house (Stuart) remains Catholic. The English replace the Stuarts with the ruling house of the Netherlands (Holland), the House of Orange. That fizzles, so the go to the House of Hannover for their next king, George I.

George I, who doesn't speak a word of English and doesn't seem to mind, is the grandfather of America's beloved George III. He is the guy we Yanks rebelled against.

Have I lost everyone, yet?

Anyhow, now the Catholic House Stuart has to go to the Irish for support, being fellow Catholics (and hating the government in London, as they both do). Here is how it usually goes. Stuart pretender to the throne lands in Ireland (Britannia didn't rule the waves, yet) and raises rebellion among the Irish. If all goes well, he can hope to move north through Ireland, building an army and cross over to Scotland. Here, he appeals to his "Scottish" heritage to gather more troops. Now, if he has been lucky enough to get this far, he staggers down into England and get his ass kicked and most of his Irish and Scottish supporters killed.

Palestine isn't the only place with a screwed-up history.

[The Ranger]

What he said.

[Coriolis]

Charles II ruled before James II and was the one who did ok, it was his brother, James II who screwed up and so on leading to the Glorious Revolution and the Jacobite wars and so on ad nauseum.

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Bast protect us all.