Your favourite system and setting

[The Ranger]

I have been having this discussion with a number of people recently and I thought I'd post it up here. What is your favourite RPG system and why? As a second question what is your favourite setting and why?

My fav system: GURPS, I love the flexibility of it, although you have to ignore some of the rules unless you feel like spending weeks working out minute details. I love the adaptability of the character creation system and especially love the quirks.

My fav Setting: Hard call really, I like the "Trinity" setting a lot, it has a lot of potential and is very well covered. I thought that "Exile" would have made a great game, its just a pity that no one kept it up. For fantasy I like the Warhammer world, I just hate the system unfortunetly...maybe I could do a GURPS version of warhammer, now that has potential.

[Hugin]

Fav System-I would have to say the new D20. The group I play with has had more fun and less bitching than ever with the new system. 2nd edition was just broken all to hell and I like what rose up from the ashes.

Fav Setting-So far I would say the Aberrant Cannon setting. Nice dash of men in tights with some intrigue, real life angst, and horrific violence all thrown in for good measure.

[Tuesday Childe]

FAV Setting; would be the ÆON Continuum, Adventure and Aberrant mostly. I love the level of realism expected from AB especially while still having the ability to construct mighty para-humans. A! gives me the opportunity to play less cosmic and dark themes, and honestly I've always loved the pulps even though I'm more partial to the gernsback scifi flavor. I greatly appreciate the Trinity setting but I have problems seeing the relevancy of the Psi orders or ÆON in that period. Call of Cthulhu is a close second and I'll play that at the drop of a hat.

FAV System: I played Champions for about ten years. It's a wonderful system that can simulate virtually any effect or character but the downside is character generation and combat as both can take hours to resolve. Part of the reason I invested heavily into the ST system when I finally got the opportunity to play Aberrant.

[Jager]

System...man, now I'm conflicted. The new D20 is good, but so new. I like free-form, but I also like GURPs and WW's.

Settings...I would like a good game set in the 17th cent. Pirates in the Caribean, mercanaries and musketeers roaming europe and the first europeans rounding the Cape and setting up 'stations' in Africa and the Orient. I like L5R and Shadowrun, as well as the A!/Aberrant/Trinity (I altered the last one to make it more Cyberpunkish).

Must think...

[Avenger]

The answer to both questions is "my own" (I'm a fucking egomaniacal bastard like that), but since none of you will likely every see it, I'll come up with a decent answer.

System: d10. I hate the old d20 system. I hate the new one more. At least the old one was kitsch. The new one is just annoying. Whee, I still have HP.

Setting: The Aeoniverse. I would've just said 'Aberrant' as I have no real love for Trinity (it's alright, but space fiction never really got me interested), though that would leave out Adventure!, which I simply cannot.

-- Avenger

[Father Ryan]

GURPS?

You'll burn in hell for this days work Ranger. I tried to like GURPS, I really did, but God told me to burn the book, and the ST too, the evil one who tried to make me play a 500 point rabbit in GURPS Bunnies and Burrows.

I do like some of the older systems. I think for sheer fun, I've always enjoyed Westends Starwars games, despite obvious game flaws and its horrible moral guidance reward techniques.

Now that a new D20 system supplement has revived the old Bible rpg I'm off with my prayer group to make my new level 1 Ex-Fisherman Who Preaches To The Unbelievers character to convert the heathens!

God bless all here.

[Aeon]

I love the 7th sea rules system - it is sheer class. It just works together.

As for settings, I have loads of favourite settings, but Trinity, Mage, L5R and 7th Sea are the best. But I am not fussy, I will play anything!

Aeon

[Stheno]

I like 7th Sea.

I'd like the new d20 system if it didn't have hit points and things like that...

I could go on for a very long time - just ask Ranger if you don't believe me...

Favourite setting...hmm. Tough. I like L5R, although I find the metaplot a bit restrictive. Ditto Aberrant.

Right now though...Adventure rules. It's all small and neat and shiny.

[Father Ryan]

God has indeed blessed Adventure with style.

I have just spent the last two days reading my new copy.

I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but I have some players for a game I will run in it tomorrow night.

I wonder though, would Adventure be so interesting were it not for Aberrant and Trinity? While the setting is great, I spent most of my time trying to figure out who appears in the later systems and stuff like that.

God bless all here.

[NeoVid]

My favorite system... hm. I'll agree with most of the other gamers I've met and say "In all my experience, the ST System is the most versatile and intuitive I've found." Thing is, my real favorite is Feng Shui's.

And as for setting... Tougher. I'm actually the most non-selective player around... I like almost everything. The ones that stand out would be Mage, A!, Aberrant, Kindred of the East and Feng Shui. Really the only game I've read with a setting I don't like is Vampire.

[Jager]

Aaahhh...Feng Shui and my favorite archtype, the Everyday Hero.

Too bad, I never got to be a Jammer.

[Wizard]

Neovid, one of these day you are going to have to explain to me the premise of Mage. I understand the concept of paradigm but with restrictions on vulgar magic, difficulty of umbral travel and inability of a single mage to [apparently] accomplish anthing lasting... Well, I just don't get it. Other than that it appears to be a very interesting and provocative setting.

[NeoVid]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wizard:
Neovid, one of these day you are going to have to explain to me the premise of Mage. I understand the concept of paradigm but with restrictions on vulgar magic, difficulty of umbral travel and inability of a single mage to [apparently] accomplish anthing lasting... Well, I just don't get it. Other than that it appears to be a very interesting and provocative setting.

OK, the first step is to toss out your copy of Mage Reviled Edition, and do whatever it takes to find the 2nd Ed. rulebook. You see, even though I unfortunately started with Revised, I quickly learned that, according to someone I know who's been STing Mage for 8 years now, Revised is "A systematic ^%*& of everything that made the game fun and interesting." Revised cripples mages (and ironically, makes it easier to minmax).

Covering your specific points:

Limiting vulgar magic: It's an extension of the paradigm idea. The vast majority of people believe in one way the world works, thanks to one faction of mages convincing them of it. Now all mages who disagree with them have to work around that. It can be good for the game, actually, since PCs will have to be more creative with their magick, and the more imagination they show, the better. That's my favorite thing about the game, really.

Difficulty of Umbral travel: WW are morons. Umbral travel used to take no more than Spirit 3, or knowing someone with Spirit 4. Now, the more powerful you are, the more likely it is to kill you. The worst part is that this is THE big development in the Mage storyline, so you can either leave it out and have a good story, or not go along with canon for the next few years.

The inability to accomplish anything: In the two years between 2nd and Revised, the Technocracy won. After several hundred years of trying. This is the other big development in the Mage storyline. Before that, a mage had as much chance of changing things as any other WoD character did. My personal solution to this problem was to make my first Mage PC a political radical, who knew you have to do something, no matter what the odds.

Hope it makes sense now.

[The Ranger]

I'd have to say that in whatever edition of Mage you are playing you can always achieve lasting, perminent effects. You just have to spend some time at it and make extended rolls.

As for revised edition, it seems the designers listened to a very common group out there...the group who have played some of the other WOD games and have maybe seen a Mage in action once and imediatly decided that they were all powerful. That really gets my goat. The designers apparently decided that they should pull the teeth of the Mages by removing a scattering of edges and increasing the XP costs of everything through the roof...I mean its apparently easier for a Hunter to learn an Occult skill than it is for a Mage...fucking ridiculus!!!

I am sick of WOD people whining that mages are too powerful etc etc etc. They are pretty much balanced by both Paradox and low startng Arete scores. That, combined with their inability to soak lethal damage, high XP cost and the gelding of the spirit sphere has driven them below the level of the average WOD creature. Not to mention the fact that the starting mage must roll 2 successes on a max of three dice just to effect someone else.

Example, a group of Mages encounters a gun toting manic. GTM sprays the cabal with his Ingram. On average the cabal all lose 2 levels of health and on a good roll could end up dead. A group of Vamps or Werewolves are in the same situation. GTM fires his gun. Vamps/WeWos wait until he has run out of ammo and stick the ingram through his frontal lobe.

Sorry guys, my hobby horse again.

[Winter_Heart]

Yeah, in Mage 2nd Edition, one of the mage would have a permanent on-off 'reflective forcefield' that he casted in his sanctuary to get no paradox. As soon as the bullet flie, there kinetic energy is reverted killing GTM...

And his platoon of 500 hundred men who also shot at the mage. I also seem to remember this effect to be childishly easy to do (They even gave a way to bypass the need for Time 4 to get 'on/off' effect in the Hermetic Book.)

From experience, and I've been playing cross-over games for a few years with different ST, unless the ST deliberatly take step to weaken edition mage (like being a totla hardass), they are definitly to powerful.

And no, that's not from seeing them once in action, I've played them before too you know... a strictly mage game is cool, but as soon as you start crossevering, if one of the mage decide to min-max... kiss your ass good bye.

And 2nd Paradox is a real joke anyway (It is a hell of a lot more fun RPwise, but it was rarely a weakness at all).

Heck, when Aberrant first came out and people went 'cross over happy', the first thing people said was 'Only a mage would stand a change against a Nova' .

[Guest]

Favorite system and setting: TORG from West End Games. The system uses difficulty numbers and "effect values" to simulate a variety of "special effects" from gun fire to magic fireballs. Some of the systems in the game end up having the players effectively "write" the story with the GM (In the Horror setting, a whole adventure can sometimes be improvised around gathering the ingrediants to accomplish a one-time "occult" effect to kill off 1 monster)

Setting: The Near Now. The general premise of TORG is that today's (well, 1990's) earth is invaded by six extradimensional "cosms", each with its own laws of reality (magic works in some, others have high technology, still others have high "clerical" abilities, etc.). These cosms change parts of our world to their own. The PC's have a partial immunity to these effects and can move (relatively) freely in and out of these "realms" and operate in them according to their own home Cosm.

Some favorites:

The sheer plausibility of some of it. Parts of the USA have been invaded by the LIVING LAND cosm (which is a setting of prehistoric Lizard people and dinosaurs. The lizard people look like intelligent velicoraptors from "Jurassic Park" but without the toe claw) and modern stuff doesn't work there for the most part. After the place invaded and the situation stabilized, the restaurant chain "Dino-burger" sprang up, selling sandwiches made from "real dinosaur meat" gather by hunting expeditions into the area.

The HORROR realm. I love this setting as an ST. Fear is the ultimate equalizer here. Due to a mechanic called Perseverance, all members of a group have the same rating to resist fear, which starts at the same level for each main threat they face in any adventure in, or having anything to do with, the HORROR realm. That means that when a werewolf jumps out in this realm, the so-called "29th level Fighter/Magic-user/Cleric with a 24 wisdom" is just as likely to piss his tunic and run likely a crybaby as his "1st level Halfling thief servant" (actually more so, since the monster controls the way his fear effects the group. He's likely to make the FMC haul ass so he can eat the "thief"

THE PULP REALITY: Basically, this is Adventure, except that the bad guys are winning big at the start. There's pulp powers, wierd gadgets, Eqyptian magic and barechested Eqyptian men wearing tunic-loincloths and carrying submachine guns.

THE CYBERPAPACY: Think the mean-ass, cycnical world of Cyberpunk, Shadowrun or whatever. Now have it be dominated by a backward, absolutist, semi-Catholic theocracy circa 1528, complete with the Inquisition. There's even a "Godnet" which includes Angels, Demons and weirder stuff in its virtual reality system.

Plus, you (and your various enemies) can travel to these various realms since they're already ON earth and learn/acquire various skills and powers. So, yes, you CAN play(or have to fight) a cybernetic ninja werewolf who casts fireballs.

[The Ranger]

I read through TORG once, seemed like an interesting setting but somehow it got thrown by the wayside.

Winter Heart, I don't know what rules the ST was using but the bullet bouncing Mage should have been blasted by paradox the first time the bullet bounced off his forehead! You can avoid the paradox of creating the effect but not the paradox of what happens when the bullet hits...if you could people would just cast flight spells on themselves in the sanctums and fly around the world.

Its certainly not simple to have that effect either. Under the description in the 2nd ed book you need about forces four to pull it off (more than one bullet at a time). Therefore you have got to be a very experianced magician to make it work. Even saying you had max arete at the start (3) and forces (3) you would need to spend about 48xp to get the necessary spheres (and thats under old rules). I don't know how much xp you ST gives out but that would take a mage in one of my games about 16 good sessions to make up. (and thats assuming they didn't spend xp on anything else) If they do that then they are entitled to a little bullet bouncing if they don't mind the paradox.

Mages have a lot of advantages with the number of detection abilities they have. In crossovers this means they are a great source of information but in a firefight one bullet can end it all. Playing a Mage in a Hunter Game recently I got my ass handed to me because paradox was on my tail from the word go. I got jumped by a vampire and made lunch of post haste.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with limiting Mages powers but not in crippling them as characters. To tell the truth the two things that bug me about the new system are the crazy XP costs (apparently its easier for a 300 year old vampire to learn computers than it is for a virtual adept who's convention invented them!) and the fact that dispite the teeth pulling that has gone on people still insist that Mages are all powerful.

[Wizard]

Despite the name, I'm as ignorant as an Australian outback Aborigine where Mage is concerned, but doesn't paradox deal with the perceptions of the sleepers? Therefore, Winterhearts lone mage could cast a spell which in effect does exactly what is described in game mechanics but appear IC as if the gun had exploded in the gunman's hand?

Admittedly, it's a stretch of the imagination for his 500 gunman to also be similiarly afflicted so Paradox would be growling in the underbrush close. Still... Would this be the basis for the perception that Mages were too powerful?

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: Wizard ]

[NeoVid]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wizard:
Despite the name, I'm as ignorant as an Australian outback Aborigine where Mage is concerned, but doesn't paradox deal with the perceptions of the sleepers? Therefore, Winterhearts lone mage could cast a spell which in effect does exactly what is described in game mechanics but appear IC as if the gun had exploded in the gunman's hand?

You just hit on one of the most important aspects of Mage: Mages have to think before they act or virtually anything they do could blow up in their faces. For instance, some of the Mage players I know have a pastime of thinking up Effects. One idea I had ended up being developed into the Talisman of Bullet Deflection. Correspondence 1 senses anything coming at you at more than 400 feet per second, and Forces 2 bends its path just enough for it to miss. Being missed by a bullet is coincidental, unless the shooter's at point-blank range, and then you'll still be alive, even with the dox. If you're a good enough player to come up with that sort of thing, then you deserve what you get.

[The Ranger]

I still say they deserved paradox for that scene in "Pulp Fiction" where all the bullets missed them.

Actually I would argue that a pre-erected bullet sheild cannot benefit from coincidence more than once, the magic was created to do something at one point in time, you cannot just warp it to blend into the coincidence you create on the spot without additional magic. (its complicated I know)

You can only get away with so much by coincidence and this is what keeps Mage balanced. I think it is when STs, who know little about Mage, allow mages in their crossover games and then get told by the Mage player that their character can do anything, is where the problem comes in. I mean Vampire and Werewolf are easy to understand, only about 1 in 10 WOD players and STs know what the fuck they can actually do.

When playing mages in crossover games I tend to make sure that the ST knows how to shit on me, or at least I try to keep things honest.

[Winter_Heart]

Exactly.

It's all suggestive. For every reasonable ST, there's one that let 'atom splitting' be done as a Force 2 Rote (combined with Correspondance 2 so you don't kill yourself of course). Alright, dramatizing, but you get the point.

I agree with the xp cost, it sucks... just don't use it.

The 500 soldiers example was dumb, granted... however, with Force 3, one can do that against a lonegun man (or a Garou bringing down his Klaive... he's going to be happy when it bounce back in his face) and take 1 _HUGE_ point of paradox. Shesh. The horror. And if he's smart, he'll find a way to make it look like a coincidence.

And while the new paradox rule isn't as 'dramatic' and exciting as the old one, it is actually a 'real' weakness now. Before, a Mage could very turn a vampire into a lawnchair, take a few dot of paradox, lay low for a while and voila, he's fine.

That's where the perception of paradox as a weakness become hard to grasp... you only get hit by it when you botch, and even then, you can spend a WP to cancel it (if memory serve me right).

Sure, right now it's boring, but by smacking you right in the teeth, you ALWAYS pay for 'rapping' reality.

Also, the fact that the 'elders' are closed off actually makes 'cross-over WOD' more liveable... without you always asking yourself, "So... why didn't the Technocrats kill every reality deviant already?" "Why did Bob the Archmage sink america if he hates them so much?" and so on.

Because they can't anymore. It's a relief that ST who are to lame to cover up their mistake can't use the Technos as it's "Big Brother" that kick the player ass when they mess up.

[Guest]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ranger:
I read through TORG once, seemed like an interesting setting but somehow it got thrown by the wayside.

For about three years or so, WEG supported the game well. There were sourcebooks, adventures, even novels. Hell, there was even a newsletter. Plus, there was a built-in sense of interactivity between the gaming groups and the company. Each of the adventure supplements had a mail-in section/questionaire about what had occurred in the adventure. The company noted what happened in most of the adventures and then factored that into what occurred on the game world. So, unlike so many other games, the playing groups really did have an effect on what happened outside of their "own little world."

Then West End decided to put out Masterbate, er, Masterbook, which was based on TORGs game system. They had a bunch of licences (for Tank Girl, Species, Indiana Jones and even Tales from the Crypt). They pretty well ignored TORG and let it die until 1995.

At that point, somebody apparently remembered that TORG was supposed to be a 5-year campaign and hacked together a comabt-happy piece of crap adventure "finale" called "War's End." Then they went bankrupt. Now they're book with the DC heroes licence and using some mutated version of the d6 system they used for Star Wars before WoTC got the licence away from them.

Winter Heart, I don't know what rules the ST was using but the bullet bouncing Mage should have been blasted by paradox the first time the bullet bounced off his forehead! You can avoid the paradox of creating the effect but not the paradox of what happens when the bullet hits...if you could people would just cast flight spells on themselves in the sanctums and fly around the world.

Its certainly not simple to have that effect either. Under the description in the 2nd ed book you need about forces four to pull it off (more than one bullet at a time). Therefore you have got to be a very experianced magician to make it work. Even saying you had max arete at the start (3) and forces (3) you would need to spend about 48xp to get the necessary spheres (and thats under old rules). I don't know how much xp you ST gives out but that would take a mage in one of my games about 16 good sessions to make up. (and thats assuming they didn't spend xp on anything else) If they do that then they are entitled to a little bullet bouncing if they don't mind the paradox.


Plus, figure that a Mage who's that experience would've done some thinking about how to avoid being shot at in the first place...


Mages have a lot of advantages with the number of detection abilities they have. In crossovers this means they are a great source of information but in a firefight one bullet can end it all. Playing a Mage in a Hunter Game recently I got my ass handed to me because paradox was on my tail from the word go. I got jumped by a vampire and made lunch of post haste.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with limiting Mages powers but not in crippling them as characters. To tell the truth the two things that bug me about the new system are the crazy XP costs (apparently its easier for a 300 year old vampire to learn computers than it is for a virtual adept who's convention invented them!) and the fact that despite the teeth pulling that has gone on people still insist that Mages are all powerful.

I think a lot of the problem is that people tend to automatically jump to the "baddest assed" abilities to judge how powerful a character-type is. They look at the Master-level effects of 5-dot Sphere abilities and assume that possessers of those abilities are unbeatable, which is nonsense.

One guy's Arete 6, Forces-5, Corr-3, Matter-5, Time-3, Quint-4 mage is certainly tough - until a 13th generation Toreador neonate uses Presence to turn him into one of her love-slave/portable-artillery/midnight-snack groupies.

And yes, I'm sure that the above "robed cannon" would have a possible defense. My point is that as long as a group's ST keeps things balanced, there's no need to arbitrarily weaken one group to compensate for potential abuse.

[Guest]

Wraith: the oblivion is the greatest.

it about existing, funny people still need to learn that. I am sad it's going out of print!!

[The Ranger]

On the paradox point. You get paradox as follows 1. On any botch 2. On any non-coincidental roll with or without witness. Paradox backlashes are now (under rev. ed.) nearly always unsoakable damage, meaning that the character is going to be toteing around a wound for at least 3 days and maybe 6 months unless he risks more paradox to heal it.

And that "spend willpower to avoid botch" thing is gone in revised...it was a feature of 2nd ed only. Probibly for the best really, it was a little broken.

[Argent_]

As for favourite setting (though ceirtanly not system), I´d go for fading Suns every hour of the day. Wonderful universe, with a seemingly endless supply of inspiration for campaigns. I haven´t run out of themes yet.

System? Tough one; on one hand, I´m partial to the Aeon continuum - it takes the best of teh Storyteller system and removes some of the nasty WoD bugs, on the other I´m very fond of a swedish RPG system used in Eon (a fantasy game) and Neotech (cyberpunk setting), respectively. This is mostly due to the horribly fatal and at least relatively realistic systems for damage; everyone thinks once or twice before drawing their swords, or whipping out a big-ass gun.

This also serves to make the threat of violence so much more effective.

[Vile Bill]

Just recently read the WW release of Raven's Loft and all I can say is...

SUUUUWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTT!!

Booya Baby! Gimme some Goth Lovin'! Bring on da bad guys!

Calibans!

Curses!

No more Detect Evil!

Corruption!

The search for redemption!

Mucked up magic!

Xenophobia!

Bwaaaaaahaaahaaahaaahaaahaaa!!

The only problem is that it is an Arthause release and that vile vile production snafu is already wreaking havoc with the planned release schedule. Grrrrrr.

[Matt]

Favorite Setting: As a storyteller it would be Trinity. As a player it would be Birthright. Perhaps I teamed up with the perfect DM for me in that game, but I loved it.

Favorite System: I guess revised storyteller. I'm not much of a system person though. I change things depending upon my mood. When I used to run games, it wasn't uncommon for there to be nights where I had people hand over their character sheets and just played the game without a system. It all depends on the mood I want for that session.

I really like Shadowrun, and the system isn't hard once you know it, but damn are there a lot of dice and new people always had a problem with it.

[Xzaviar]

I have mixed views when it comes to favorite systems, and it truly depends on the genre of the setting. In a fantasy setting, where magic is present, I would say D20 (3e), In a mid-evil setting with little to no Magic, Rolemaster.

In a modern setting With out the supernatural, so far the Shadowrun system with out cybergear has done amazing, and with supernatural, I would go with the hero system.

As far as a favorite setting, I do truly enjoy Aberrant. The system works well enough.

[Deeth]

World setting -> Shadowrun (fantasy cyberpunk)

-> Supersbased (Aberrant is good)

Game System -> Gurps or ST

I am a big fan of magic and such, but can deal with technology as long as I have the ability to affect its growth. (tinkerer at heart)

[Sakurako Hino]

Favorite Setting:

Well, that's a toss-up, but the Settings for Ironclaw/Jadeclaw and Shadowrun stand out in my mind. Silver Age Sentinels also turns my crank in the right direction. I guess I'm a sucker for more old-school type style superheroics.

Favorite System:

Another Toss-Up. This time between Tri-Stat(Guardians Of Order) Especially the version used in Silver Age Sentinels, Storyteller(White Wolf) has always been up there for a synchronicity between simplicity and detail, and Shadowrun's system for it's damage system and the sheer material available (Not to mention better fan support over CP2020.). I know I know, a lot of people don't like it, but I do.