Aberrant: In the Beginning - Table Talk- In the Beginning

[Michael Peters]

Really? Max isnt a Nova? Hmmm... I didnt know that. Also, regarding Adrenocillian, that already has the sterility in it? I thought that was something that was added after Proteus came into existance.

[Courier]

Of course it is... but *when* did Proteus come into existence?

Unfortunately the entire sterility thing has several contradictions. If the *only* reason novas are sterile is because of spiked Andies, and if the Spike was invented in 2000 or so, then from 1998 to 2000 you'd think Novas would have had kids. For that matter even in 2008 it's a reach to say PU gets Andies to everyone, especially "India Syndrome" novas in India.

So the implication is that there are other issues. Cannon says in 2007 with thousands of novas running around the total number of confirmed births is *zero*.

1) Maybe novas have had kids and the news is suppressed.

2) Maybe novas have a lot of problems having kids anyway, especially with baselines. For example maybe having even a single dot of taint means you're effectively *not* *human*.

3) Maybe the Spike predates N-Day and there are multiple vectors.

4) Maybe it's some combination of these.

I'm not ST and this begs for ST intervention. IMHO default cannon says we should be sterile unless we purchase "Health".

[Dawn OOC]

I'm sure Titan will let us know the score. It is his game, and he can do what he wants.

[Katalyst]

So what about those that have the Adaptability enhancement. Wouldn't that prevent being sterile as well?

[Courier]

RE: Titan

Yep... although he might let us find out IC rather than make a OOC announcement. The whole issue might never come up... although I think one of us has "self-awareness" which would let her realize what's going on if and when it does.

RE: Adaptability

Considering it's a common power and being fertile isn't, it's strongly implied adapt doesn't help (EDIT: More than implied, it doesn't work against nova drugs). Also it already does lots without adding fertility to the list, and we have a power that specifically covers this.

If you want to be immortal and survive in any environment, buy Adapt. If you want kids, buy Health.

[Katalyst]

Originally Posted By: Courier

RE: Adaptability
Considering it's a common power and being fertile isn't, it's strongly implied adapt doesn't help (EDIT: More than implied, it doesn't work against nova drugs). Also it already does lots without adding fertility to the list, and we have a power that specifically covers this.

If you want to be immortal and survive in any environment, buy Adapt. If you want kids, buy Health.

From what I read about adaptability it gives and additional 6 extra soak against virulent diseases and nova poisons.

Health does do the same thing only better.

[Courier]

(Adaptability; Core: page 161)

"She is automatically immune to most poisons, gases, diseases and drugs;"

This doesn't apply to nova specific drugs,

(Drug section, page 280) "Note that all novas are very resistant to most drugs. When ingesting normal, non nova-specific drugs, the player of a nova may (in fact, must) make a standard Resistance roll; even one success enables the nova to ignore the effects of the drug. Nova-specific drugs (...adrenocilin...) have been designed to overcome the nova metabolism, though a nova's player may make a single Resistance roll at +2 difficulty to purge these drugs from the nova's system."

So if you don't bother to make a resistance roll, the drug affects you normally. This is true even with Adapt.

(Adaptability; Core: page 161)

"...against particularly virulent diseases or nova-derived poisons, she gains an extra six soak or Resistance dice."

It's a reach to call Andies a disease or a nova-derived poison. I suspect this is referring to the "Poison" power. So arguably Adapt is no help at all against nova specific drugs. But even if the ST allows it, all you'd get is an extra 6 dice and it still wouldn't help if the exposure is voluntary.

One level of Health doesn't give you that option and works normally against the nova specific drugs. Even better, it doesn't just help you make a roll, it reduces the effect of the drug itself. So if you have 3 dots in Mega-Stamina and Health and exposed to Ebola, even if you botch your Resistance Roll you still only get the effects of a mild cold.

[Katalyst]

Yeah I thought as much but I guess it's the ST call on if it's a nova derived poison or not. Since there wasn't that many nova pre nday, I would consider it like that.

[SkyLion]

I am slightly dismayed that Pax is being included, since he along with Divis are the two reasons PCs can never get "too big" without getting the smack layed down. Another case of White Wolf saying "our NPCs are better than you will ever be so nyeah!"

However I will try and nip that prejudice in the bud and see how things play out.

Besides...I wanted to be the superman!

[Titan]

We know, those of us following all the ItB threads, of Five pre-N Day novas. The unknown nova who assaulted a CIA agent in Seoul. The unnamed (but known to most of us) nova who met Fahrenheit in her cell. Three so far known to Æon: Jack. The unnamed black man. Ray (unseen, but heard). That's all I'm givin ya.

Sterility and Novas: you don't know.

Fool: I will always stay pretty close to canon, unless the PCs change things. You guys will be some of the most powerful people in the world when 2008 rolls around, and unless I am very much mistaken, will have significantly rewritten that un-ordained history. That is to say, things change. Nevertheless, Jack certainly seems to have planned ahead...

[Michael Peters]

I'd like to be part of a game where we get powerful enough that we can give 'ol Pax pause... maybe not one-on-one, but in two's or three's.. that'd be something to see.

That, of course, is assuming we end up opposing him. If we're working with him, thats a totally different story. Pax as an equal. Kind of a surreal thought. I've never been part of a game that ran long enough for the PC's to achieve that level of power.

[SalmonMax]

If I'm not mistaken, in order for one of us to qualify for "smackdown" from Divis or Pax, we'd have had to do something ree-HEE-lly obnoxious. They may be paarful, but there's just one of each. They've generally got much bigger fish to fry than things PC's regularly get involved with.

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Lily

If I'm not mistaken, in order for one of us to qualify for "smackdown" from Divis or Pax, we'd have had to do something ree-HEE-lly obnoxious. They may be paarful, but there's just one of each. They've generally got much bigger fish to fry than things PC's regularly get involved with.

See this is what I disagree with. I think its a design flaw of sorts when the PCs dont have even a prayer of taking the main stage at some point.

As has been discussed at length over at EON its really Divis Mals influence that makes the Aberrant War a certainty. Without his trump card powers there would be a way to prevent it, though it might still be difficult. Divis Mal pushes the taint monkeys too far too fast and with to radical of an agenda.


The Metaplot rears its ugly head! Thats why Im excited about this game...being in on the ground floor makes it possible to affect things in totally different ways.

[SalmonMax]

The existence of the characters isn't enough to get me worried, I must admit. Sure, they can be used poorly...and it may even be that they're -meant- to be used poorly by the people that put them there. But until Titan actually uses them poorly, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: Titan

Sterility and Novas: you don't know.

Ah, I thought so.

Originally Posted By: Michael Peters

I'd like to be part of a game where we get powerful enough that we can give 'ol Pax pause...

Even a starting character can beat Pax if the theme is right. Paper Covers Rock. Pax is impressive but he has a weak point; it's right above his neck.

In Cannon, even in 2002 he lost and lost badly to a Domination attack. For that matter he also lost against a team of Elites. This is even more impressive since as far as we can tell they didn't take advantage of his weak point.

[Mr Fox]

The STs don't need Pax or DM to give the characters a run for their money, no matter how powerful they get. Remember, Novas lose the Aberrant War, and that's with DM involved up to his neck. Numbers make all the difference. Napoleon and Hitler both lost because they got into a land war in asia; the winters were bad, but it was the numbers that beat them. To give another example, individually vamps can wipe the floor with any mortal they face, but they instituted the masquerade because they are vastly outnumbered and would be destroyed by the mobs. Sure Novas have trump cards that allow for escape and winning a battle, but piss enough people off and eventually a sniper will put a depleted uranium round in your head when you aren't in ghost form or maintaining your force field, etc, or a government will put forth significant resources to put a stop to you, or Elites will be hired to go after you.... I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, there are lots and lots of ways for a massively powerful nova to be taken out if enough people care to make it happen.

[SkyLion]

The Aberrants didn't lose. They got fed up with the monkey's and found a better playground.

[SalmonMax]

Sounds like a loss to me.

[SkyLion]

Meh. Earth was too fucked up. Massive taint Blight, Bahrain nuked, scorched earth everywhere. Humans get a tossed up planet. Aberrants get new Universe and the power of the exalteds...

[SalmonMax]

A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.

Hee hee

This is kind of fun.

[Courier]

I have problems calling anyone the "winners" in that entire mess.

The Terats got sent to a Universe created by their dysfunctional god and get to deal with the inherit contradictions of Teras now written into the natural law.

The baselines lost the power of novas to clean things up and the Earth was left so beat up that they're losing to the Colony.

It's hard to call any of the Colony's minions "winners" in this mess, or even the creature itself considering how tainted it is.

So who does that leave? Utopia? The independent novas who had to flee the planet?

The closest thing to the "winners" IMHO are the Church of Michael Archangel, and even that's only because they converted everyone else... I doubt they enjoyed their victory.

On the other hand the War is a long way off and the PCs might be able to make a difference. I even have ideas for dealing with Mal.

[SalmonMax]

What is that whole thing with the Colony, anyway?

And are -all- novas irredeemably tainted by the time of Trinity?

And what happened to novas that didn't have the powers required to leave Earth? Slaughtered?

[Peter Bell]

The big problem is Divis Mal. He is the one who has the huge head start on all the other novas. He is the one who has the philosophy that alienates novas from mankind while allowing his adherance quicker access to power ... and madness. He is also the one who knows a great deal about the Aeon Society and what it's agenda is. He can oppose their moves at every turn, if he so chooses.

[Charlotte]

The Colony is, according to a few designers who let it slip, a hivemind of novas who were taken over by eufiber.

[Katalyst]

Originally Posted By: Lily

And what happened to novas that didn't have the powers required to leave Earth? Slaughtered?

That is what I believe is going to happen. Others may find a way to hide themselves.

[Courier]

The Colony is the Big Bad of Trinity, and as near as I can tell he's either what's left of the world's Eufiber (as in, wearing it means you are forced into it), or he's a Q8 nova.

Earth Novas in the Trinity era tend to erupt into tainted horrors. This is because they "think" they should erupt into tainted horrors, or because they start buying things tainted right away just to survive, or because the world is now "high taint" and they start getting aberrations right out of the box (or all of the above).

Most novas who didn't leave where killed, a few hide out, either in plain sight or out in the boon docks. A few were sheltered by the Japanese government and continued to work for them and to Protect the Earth (i.e. probably what's left of T2M).

As for Divis, the key is to use his weak points against him. Once again they're right above his neck.

[SalmonMax]

Above his neck, eh? I thought he had 5 dots in all the mega mentals.

[SkyLion]

Yes there are actually Novas still on Earth after China's Ultimatum. Some are tainted aberrants living in blighted regions that confuse scanners/noetic sensitivity. Others are normal untainted novas who have been hidden by the government of Japan. Many who didn't have movement powers were evacuated by those that were, either Divis, or that which would eventually become the Colony or the relatively civic mionded Novas on Eden. There are more than a couple of my characters whom I had hoped would eventually make it to Eden.

And yeah it is strongly implied that the Colony is a taint mad Annibal Buendia..

[Michael Peters]

I belive that Cestux Pax gets Megalomanianic taint sometime. Not that he needed a taint driven mental issue to be a magalomanic... but there it is.

As to Divis and Pax's weakness, are you refering to his ego? I would assume that if you went that route and succeded in getting to him you'd become a quantum smear over a kilometer of landscape.

[SkyLion]

Divis actually has formidable psychic and mental defenses. I think Courier meant Pax.

[SalmonMax]

What is Eden? New planet of novas?

I ask, because my character in MCoH is working on interstellar-capable drive technology...it'd be kind of cool to think there's a place for her in canon.

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

Divis actually has formidable psychic and mental defenses. I think Courier meant Pax.

Nope, I mean Mal.

Pax you can just Dominate.

Mal on the other hand IMHO has several taint insanities. These are weaknesses, and need to be treated by *us* as weaknesses.

He's going to take *whatever* happens and declare victory, then he's going to create his magic universe and leave.

These are not totally unworkable things. He wants a homeland for novas where nova laws are written by novas? Fine, let's *give* him one, headed up by Pax. Teras has internal contradictions, so lets make the most of them.

[Michael Peters]

I have no problem with Teras as a philosophy. Nova's for Nova's. But that only works when Nova's dont want or have anything to do with baselines.

Since alot of Nova's still consider themselves human, Teras leads to strife and conflict.

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: Michael Peters

I have no problem with Teras as a philosophy. Nova's for Nova's. But that only works when Nova's dont want or have anything to do with baselines.

What should the followers of the "Monster" path do? They need victims, without baselines... they prey on novas?

[Michael Peters]

Hmmm... a good point. Maybe it would become more of a path of the mind. Removing your baseline thoughts and preconceptions?

[Courier]

Then they'd be Portents... and all of the paths are supposed to get rid of your baseline thoughts and preconceptions. Monsters need victims.

And this is the Teragen, who is going to explain to Geryon that he can't rip the heads off of the "unjust"? Who is going to explain to the harvesters that they can't punish baseline looking novas for being baseline looking novas?

Further, Terats have lots of aberrations, what do we expect the nova with "Feeding Requirement (FR): Fear" or "FR: Living Human Flesh" to do? Teras gave them their aberrations, is it now going to reject them after they have served so loyally in the war?

I suspect civil war will break out in Divis' "paradise" immediately after they go there... assuming there are no baselines.

But moving us back on topic, I suspect it is (barely) possible to work around Divis, especially since he's such a hands off guy he probably won't notice what we're up to. If he's going to declare victory no matter what we do, then he might as well do so with a more pleasant outcome.

[Michael Peters]

Excellent points Courier. I graciously concede defeat.

I've never had a game I was a part of get to deep into the Path of Teras, although in my own games I've refrained from making them cutout villains. I've always tried to have Terats be more like philosophers, Nova's who are trying to find a new path in life.

I think Terats are a good thing, on the whole. If only they could do something about the poseurs....

[SkyLion]

Quote:

What is Eden? New planet of novas?

I ask, because my character in MCoH is working on interstellar-capable drive technology...it'd be kind of cool to think there's a place for her in canon.

A planet of relatively untainted Novas and baselines, but all authority rests in the hands of the novas. It is like Greece if the Olympians truly walked among mortals, a novacracy.

Quote:

Mal on the other hand IMHO has several taint insanities. These are weaknesses, and need to be treated by *us* as weaknesses.

Mal has Megalomania. He thinks he is a god. This is only a weakness when you *don't* actually have the power to back it up. Furthermore, just because he is crazy doesn't mean he is stupid. He is far worse than Moriarty...he has the knowledge, cunning and perservereance to make sure his plans come to fruition.

Quote:

What should the followers of the "Monster" path do? They need victims, without baselines... they prey on novas?

In short, yes. However I would suggest a different view. The different paths of Teras are tnot the end unto themselves. They are a means. I would argue that once a Nova has used a particular path to distance themselves from humanity it is mission accomplished. There is nothing to say they could not then choose a different archetype or even better, come up with an entirely new path. After all, Teras is about embracing evolution and the transhuman state and once you have truly become an alien being there are many more roads to travel. On the other hand they could go and preyon other alien races...after all with all those tentacles and suckers they might as well play the part of the Old Ones. :squid:

[Joani]

I'm terribly sorry, I used the wrong account for my post

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

A planet of relatively untainted Novas and baselines, but all authority rests in the hands of the novas. It is like Greece if the Olympians truly walked among mortals, a novacracy.

A functioning society showing novas and baselines can get along.

Quote:

Mal has Megalomania. He thinks he is a god.

Both true.

Quote:

This is only a weakness when you *don't* actually have the power to back it up. Furthermore, just because he is crazy doesn't mean he is stupid. He is far worse than Moriarty...he has the knowledge, cunning and perservereance to make sure his plans come to fruition.

Untrue. He launches big grandiose plan after grandiose plan, and they fail. Pax might have been convertable, but after Bahrain he's never going to try to do anything but kill Divis. Mal is an abject failure as a manager, he gives his followers impossible instructions and then is *shocked* when they aren't followed. Mal wins because he can't lose and he's willing to declare victory with whatever happens.

And I wouldn't just give him Megalomania, IMHO he also has Schizophrenia. From it'd definition on page 153 it might as well have Mal's picture next to it (although he isn't a paranoid). Multiple NPCs have remarked on how detached he is.

If we can lead novas away from the war he'll let us and be happy with just being worshiped until he gets strong enough to create his perfect universe.

What we really need to do is build our own faction.
Utopia without the baseline's in charge and the exploitation of Novas.
The Teragen without the lack of responsibility for your actions.

So basically we're talking about DeVries without the total willingness to murder novas for money.