Aberrant RPG - Suite Powers and Mastery

[Legion]

I know that a character with a suite power gains one technique per dot in the power, if a character gets the first mastery, i know they double the effect of the power, so all the techniques would be increased, but can a character now gain two techniques per dot in the power, or does this seem to overpowered?

[kestrel404]

There's nothing in the books about that, so: not in canon. And besides that, it sounds more than a little overpowered. Just having Mastery makes the whole power a LOT better.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Also, if you're of sufficient Quantum to gain Mastery, you're also of sufficient Quantum to have at least six dots in the power. Six techniques (seven, if your suite power comes with a freebee like Temporal Manipulation does) is nothing to sneer at....

[Lou Anne Burgess]

I believe you also are allowed to select a technique when buying an extra for a suite power.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I think that's just when you buy an extra without increasing the level, but my book isn't here.

[Legion]

so you can have a power rating up t your quantum? I thought it was limited to 5 and only mega atts could go above 5?

[BlueNinja]

Some of the higher levels powers (thinking of Universe Creation in particular) are written in a way that you *have* to be able to increase them up to your Quantum score. So I believe it's something they conveniently forgot to include when they mentioned Megas going up to Q score after 5.

What about Mastery affecting particular Extras on a power? I'm thinking specifically about things like Extra Sense (for Holo) or Extra Minds (for Psychic Shield and Psychic Link) - would taking Mastery increase those as well, or simply successes?

[Legion]

I always took mastery multipliers to apply to all aspects of a power (upon consdieration, you guys are right about more techniques with master being a little overpowered) So i awould assume this applies to extras as well. The whole point of extras on the level 1-3 powers was to take an existing low level power and give it some extra *oompf* so that it is comensurate with the higher level powers like Molecular Authority or Creation Ex nihilo. So, taking this into account i would say that applying mastery to extras effects would work as well. Remember that when a character puts an extra on a power they don't think of it as some different part of the power, they think of it as one thing. So a character with Claws and the armor piercing extra with master 3 would subtract 40 soak/success while at the same time adding 20 dice to attack damage. I think this puts the power on par with some higher level powers. (Claws with AP and MAster 1-3 would be a lvl 4-5power depending on when you buy the AP extra)

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

The effect is doubled.

The short answer is you'd need to talk with your ST as with all Q6+ stuff. The long answer is I think there is a strong case for "+1 Extra Mind/Sense" to be translated into "+1(x2) => +2".

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Please note that not all Extras have "Effects". For example Reduce Quantum Cost doesn't change the effect of the power, it just reduces it's cost.

[Wargear]

So, for the sake of argument, if you had combat teleport as an extra and took Mastery... could you teleport twice in a round and still move/attack/etc?

[metaphysician]

I'd say no.

Re: suite techniques, if you have Mastery and nothing else, and your GM uses the most pessimistic option, your still only blowing 3 qp to do an unlearned technique, and the +1 sux difficulty penalty kind of is less important when you're probably doubling your sux.

( if your GM uses the "2 qp cost for suite techniques" rule, your only paying 2 with mastery for unlearned tricks. If you take as your "free" extra RQC, your pay 1 qp for unlearned tricks either way )

[Wargear]

On the other hand, given what you pay in overall XP costs over time for an Extra, and then stacking Mastery on top of that... shouldn't that spent xp offer some additional benefit when you take Mastery?

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: Wargear

So, for the sake of argument, if you had combat teleport as an extra and took Mastery... could you teleport twice in a round and still move/attack/etc?

Probably not, for the same reason you can't move twice with flight and then attack.

Originally Posted By: metaphysician

(if your GM uses the "2 qp cost for suite techniques" rule, your only paying 2 with mastery for unlearned tricks. If you take as your "free" extra RQC, your pay 1 qp for unlearned tricks either way )

Assuming Q6, given that we are talking about a suit power you probably don't have a "free" extra. L3 power with Mastery is a level 4 power. If you want a "free" extra with that then you need Q7.

As for the q-cost... I'd guess 3, not 2. 3 cut in half but doubled.

[metaphysician]

Wargear- It does benefit for learned tricks. Those become 0 qp.

Courier- I follow the interp of the rules that allows both, since you can put two extras on a L3 power. After all, if you put RQC on first, its still level 3, and you can still put an extra on it.

That whole area of rules could use an errata, admittedly. . .

[Wargear]

Speaking of extras and reducing quatum costs, how do you guys rule on Reduced Quantum Cost as an extra? According to the rules, an extra increases the level of a power in all respects including quantum cost, but that seems to make Reduced Quantum Cost a losing proposition: add it to a level 1 power, you make it a level two power and then halve that cost and you're right back at a 1 qp cost. The book specifically addresses that by saying a Level 1 Quantum power with the Reduced Cost extra costs no quantum, but what about, say, a Level 3 power that you apply the extra to (assuming Q6)? Do you take the 4 qp cost of a Level 4 power and halve it, thus saving you one qp on the exchange, or do you halve the Level 3 cost of the power (reducing it to 1 qp) and just charge XP for the power as thought it were Level 4?

I've seen this done both ways, and am wondering what interpretation you guys favor.

[metaphysician]

The interpretation I saw that made the most sense is, the usage cost for a power is based on the *base* level, not counting extras. After all, they never do say learning an extra increases the cost to use.

[Wargear]

From the Core Aberrant Rulebook: "If a power is bought with an Extra, it is treated as one level higher." (pg 179) and again, "Taking an Extra has two effects beyond the benefit of the Extra itself. First, it raises the power's level by one for purposes of cost to purchase it with nova/experience points and power it with quantum points" (pg 230).

Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

[metaphysician]

Fair point. Ah well, not like contradictory or unclear rules are new in Aberrant. . .

My preference would be to ignore that, and says extras don't up the cost. Either that, or they should have had RQC get an explicit exception.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Originally Posted By: metaphysician

Courier- I follow the interp of the rules that allows both, since you can put two extras on a L3 power. After all, if you put RQC on first, its still level 3, and you can still put an extra on it.

That would be, "any extra except Mastery". Again, you can't have level 4 powers with a free extra until Q7.

RE:Q-Costs
RQC (and by implication, Mastery) take the base cost of the power without RQC. For example (from the core book), a level one power with RQC costs no quantum to use.

Note that without this judgement Claws+RQC is level 2, therefore it's cost would be 1 (which makes the whole thing pretty silly and meaningless and thus we're lucky we have an example).